What's your favorite way to remove primer crimps?  I've been offered 1,000 pieces of free wcc military once fired brass, so I'll need to remove the crimp.  What have you found to be your favorite tool for this task?

RCBS Primer pocket swager.  It makes quick work of primer pocket crimps and it doesn't remove any metal.



G

I use a concrete block, a lee decapper and base depriming tool to knock the primer out, with a soft drink sleeve under the block to keep the primers from getting all over the place. Once that chore is done, the concrete block is turned over and I chuck up a deburrer on a drill with the switch on slow speed. The drill goes upside down in one of the concrete voids.





A little bump or two is usually sufficient to take enough of the crimp out. Any more and you'll have spent primers floating around in your lower receiver.





http://www.bullets-brass.com/proddetail.asp?prod=36500 is the deburrer and it has a pilot on the rear end to chuck up in a drill.





I realize that this is almost worthless without pics, but all that stuff is buried in the man cave



I've used the rcbs primer pocket swager too, with good effect, but it takes a little longer for me.

I chuck up my Hornady reamer in my drill and have at it.

I de-crimped 3000 LC brass a few months ago.  I can't imagine doing it w/o the Super Swage.  It's worth it!  It's fast, precise, and you won't over-swage the primer pocket.

Guess I'll have to drop the cash for the Dillon unit.  I wasn't planning on using any military brass so I could avoid this dilemma, but the brass is free, so whatever.

Dillon swager first, touch up with Hornady reamer if necessary

AMEN!  I sold my Dillon Super Swager in favor of the Hornady.  Way cheaper, and way better.



Even if you like the Dillon...  the Hornady tool is a must have for any .223 reloader.

+1.  Inexpensive, and won't remove brass excessively.  It only lets you ream out so much.  Not as fast as the Dillon swage, but it's faster than some people would imagine.  Once you get a rhythm going you can process a lot of brass quickly.



 

I use the RCBS swage. It'll only work on a single stage press though. If you load on a progressive, you'll need to go a different route.

I use the Super Swage.  I don't like the idea of removing material from the primer pocket, and it's possible, even with the very well designed Hornady reamer to do that.

Turn on the TV set to your favorite program or movie.

Instructions for right handers.  Put enough of your decapped brass in a bowl or box that will suit you for this session, on the left.  Place an empty bowl/box of a similar size on the right side.  

Pick up a piece of brass in your left hand.

In your right hand is your Lyman Hand reamer.

Put the reamer into the untreated primer pocket and twist.

Viola, you're done.

Place the treated case into the nearby empty bowl/box.

Repeat the process.  

HTH.

Aloha, Mark

Oh good.  I was hoping someone would post this, as I just ordered a Lyman Hand reamer 20 minutes ago, before I saw this thread.

+1
Just did 1k this afternoon. Can't beat it...

This.  It costs twenty bucks, is well made, and it works once you get the hang of it.  It consists of a die body, two different size rods that fit in the die (like a seater punch) and provide backing inside the case, two different size swaging spuds, and a metal doodad that lets you pull the case off the spud when you lower the ram after swaging.  

By the way, guy up above has a cool name:  Assault Rifler.  There are others:  Dallas Looter Shooter, 82nd Airborne, Zombie Killer, etc.

Why would any reloader listen to somebody named Uni-Vibe or Gee Wizz?  What the hell is a uni-vibe?  And doesn't everyone wizz several times a day?

Seriously, some swear by the Dillon dedicated swager.  Some prefer reamers, hand or electric.  But the RCBS kit works for me.

I have always just put a little chamfer at the primer pocket opening with the same tool that I use to deburr after trimming, just a twist or two, is there some problem that I am not having that others are? I have never had a problem with priming crimped cases using this method in my RockChucker or LNL AP.

Chamfer like so....

I'm in the process of reloading 1000 rounds with crimps and I'm approaching it at 50 rounds per seating and using my Hornady hand reamer and all of my patience.  It's not as bad as I thought it would be.  I'm glad I bought the Hornady, it was highly recommended and cost effective.

I ordered the hornady reamer.  The plan is to put it in my electric drill, put the drill in a bench vise with the reamer facing up, and remove the crimp that way.  We'll see how it goes!

Yes I agree. The Dillon doesn't remove metal-it pushes it into the correct shape.
Many of the other reamer type tools remove metal (which isn't horrible in itself) and the results are inconsistent . Some pockets still too tight and some slightly loose

The Dillon is one of the fastest methods and you can sit down and do 500 or 1000 without leaving your hands all cramped up for three days.

I bought mine years back but wish I had bought it first before the other "tools" that do not work near as well !

I have a borrowed Dillon Swage and I still have issues with brass giving inconsistent pressure when pushing the handle down.

Some people said you have to adjust it for the specific brass but I have only done LC and I am not separating them by year to swage them.

The first one or two reloading was still hard on a handful of cases.

Humm........YMWV..........

1)  The Dillon doesn't remove metal-it pushes it into the correct shape.

In theory, YES.

But, I have (and my friend w/ a Dillon has) observed metal slivers that have broken off of primer crimps when using a swage. Probably, due to the quality of the brass, crimp quality, mfn process, or whatever.  

That's removal of metal, by my definition.

2)  Many of the other reamer type tools remove metal (which isn't horrible in itself) and the results are inconsistent.  

I use these tools.

Large Primer Pocket Size #7777785

www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=682934

Small Primer Pocket Size #7777784

www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=643126

There are many "other brands" out there and I can't say about them.

My Lyman Hand reamer tool, has a safe edge on the bottom.....it won't cut the pocket deeper. The cutter will simply spin, via hand power, cutting off the crimp. It'll leave a slight chamfer to the primer pocket opening. It will correct an undersized pocket and an "out of round" condition, but only to the limits of the tool's cutting edge, under hand power. The main pocket diameter won't be dangerously enlarged, unless you force the tool to the sidewalls. And, the cutting edge can be dulled, IF you wanted to do that. It's a "hand tool" and I wouldn't mount it in a drill........but, that's ME.

The Dillon is inconsistent in that it needs, "proper adjustment."

3)  Some pockets still too tight and some slightly loose

Huh?

The primer pocket will be cut to conform to the reamer tool's size.

Same with the spud on the Dillon.  The primer pocket will be swaged to conform to the spud size.  Additionally, the Dillon needs proper adjustment.

Of course, both tools must be manufactured correctly to begin with or there will be problems.  

Both, a swage or reamer CANNOT make a large pocket, smaller.  Bad brass, mfn Q.C.,  and/or over pressure ammo, are usually the culprit with overly large primer pockets.

Having tools that are correctly made and used, goes a long way towards getting consistent results.

4)  The Dillon is one of the fastest methods and you can sit down and do 500 or 1000 without leaving your hands all cramped up for three days.

I'll concede that IF I were doing thousands of cases in one sitting, I'd want a Dillon.  

However, since I will usually do only a couple hundred at a time, my reamer suits me fine.  And, I can watch TV while doing it and I can take breaks anytime I want.

OK, maybe you could watch TV while using your Dillon (and take breaks too).  But, be careful. Your finger(s), left in the wrong place at the wrong time, can get hurt.

As for: Leaving your hands all cramped up for three days.  

My advice: Take a break every once in a while.

Now to point out a potential downside to using a Dillon.........

There are adjustments and a larger learning curve to the Dillon.

Then, because of the rod that supports the case from the inside........the rod might crush the burrs of the flash hole (left there from initial production).  The burrs may block or partially block the flash path. So, you may want to use a flash hole uniformer deburring tool, prior to the swaging operation (or after) to take care of that problem.

With a reamer, I don't have that problem at all. It's OPTIONAL for me to use a flash hole uniformer deburring tool.  Hey, I could save a step.  And, the learning curve is, "insert tool and twist."

IF, as a Dillon owner you haven't encountered "any problems," good for you.  That's the reason for: YMWV.

So, don't get me wrong.........choose what suits YOU.  

I just wanted to put to rest some of the myths, about reamers and swaging tools.

Bottom line (in this case, I believe): Both methods can get you consistent results.

Aloha, Mark

IF it suits you.......GOOD.

However, IMHO…..DON'T USE THIS STYLE OF TOOL..........

www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=364181&t=11082005

Someone once asked me: Why Not?

A:  A standard reamer/de-burr tool could be used but, your results will vary greatly.  In my younger days I tried using it but, I encountered problems with getting squared cuts and sometimes over doing it. Then, with large primer pockets the pointed tip of the reamer made contact with the bottom of the pocket and I wasn't able to get any decent cut.

BTW, my Speer #10 Re-loading manual has a picture of a pocket knife being used to cut a military crimp out (page 71).

My advice: Use the tool specifically made for the job. See my recommendation above.

Aloha, Mark

PS.........Sorry, but ever since the weekend I've been having trouble with the various "insert tags' functions on this site.

Dillon swage

Is this a problem you have had or something you just think is possible.  I could see this happening with crimped pull down brass but once fired any burs will be taken out by plasma erosion.  I just went and looked at ~ 100 LC once fired by holding up a hand full of cases at a time against a florescent shop light and didn't see but a few burs and they only protruded into the flash hole enough to make the hole look a bit oblong on one side.



Swagging can tighten a pocket to a degree (yes a small degree) the metal is displaced but not removed, it has to go somewhere

stiles,

1)  It's a "problem" that my friend (a Dillon owner) has told me "first hand" about.  

IF you don't care about it.........good.  And, your point is taken.  

I guess it could/would depend on the degree of encroachment to the flash channel and IF it affects the consistency of the "burn."  

But then, I can remember the guy(s) who said that leaving cleaning media in the flash channel was OK.  

Well, I wouldn't want anything in the way of my flash channel........that's ME.   In my mind, "Both cases are a problem."

What you do, or don't do, is up to you.

2)  The pocket will be forced to conform to the spud size. How does that make it smaller?

Aloha, Mark

PS..........OK, I said, "Both, a swage or reamer CANNOT make a large pocket, smaller."  

Note: "smaller" and you said "tighten."  

I see your reasoning.  IF the metal was displaced to an area that was currently a void of metal then THAT would increase the friction fit.   But, that would also mean that the entire base of the cartridge would have to be held "tightly" in a device, so that the base would not be able to expand at all when the spud enters.

However, I believe that more than likely, given what we got to work with, the pocket would just widen to the limit of the spud (leaving the voids) and you would get no real increase in the friction fit.

Uhh the 'swagging punch' is ground to the diameter you want the primer pocket to be so if the pocket is too small it will open it up, the only time it can tighten the pocket is if the pocket is already oversized.




This is purely an argument of semantics, in this case they are functionally the same, how can you "tighten" a primer pocket's friction fit without making it "smaller"?




We are not swagging ketchup here, the metal displaced is going to the nearest void and that sure isn't the outer diameter of the case, it's directly adjacent to the radius of the swagging punch.  Now if the pocket is oversized with the vector of the swagging punch the metal will displace into the adjacent part of the primer pocket, and if the primer pocket is a friction fit or tighter the metal displaced by the radius will flow back to the breach face (actually it won't want to flow against the vector of the radius of the punch so it may also widen too).

BTW there is noting wrong with a properly designed reamer for this job.  It needs to have a safe side on the diameter to it doesn't cut the pocket diameter oversize and there is no reason you can't grind a reamer like that.

This.  On a Rockchucker press.  It's a lot of work, but you only have to do it once.

stiles,

It's clear where your thinking is.  And, it's clear that you like to take little snippets (quotes of mine) to misguide some readers.

You believe that you'll get a "tighter" pocket with a Dillon swage.......so, go ahead and use it.   BTW, you continue to miss the FACT that I said, "smaller."  

You believe that a reamer shouldn't have a cutting edge where it contacts the major "pocket" area..........so, go ahead and design and market one.  You'll make millions or go broke.

I believe............

"Both, a swage or reamer CANNOT make a large pocket, smaller."  

An "undersized pocket" can benefit from a correctly built reamer, when it cuts the major pocket area to a uniform standard size.

And, when both tools are properly made and used, both methods can get you consistent results.

But, that's ME.

Aloha, Mark

Sort of goes along with "measure twice, cut once," eh?  

I'm in total agreement with you, and while I prefer a swage, I also see lots of people talking about a variety of different brands/makes of brass that have pockets that aren't "commercial standard" dimensions for one reason or another.  A good quality reamer will ensure that the pocket itself is within the kind of standards we've come to expect from quality brass, and some reamers are designed to prevent improper, off-axis use.  There's also a place for flash hole uniformers, which debur the hole and center it while making it the right size.  

This is as opposed to using chamfer tools to remove a primer pocket crimp, because you can really goober up a primer pocket with them.  A good reamer is hard to use poorly and will give good results every time.

Dillon super swage 600...just bought one this morning....wish I would have bought one a year ago when I started reloading.

I'm misguiding readers cause I actually own the device in question and have double checked the "concerns" you have?  You have admitted you have never observed with your own two eyes the bur/flash hole issue that you raised, and I went to verify with my own two eyes your hear say and I'm "misleading readers!" OK!




I've already cleared this up they are functional the same thing, yes the pocket if it is oversized can get smaller!  Why do you persist with this semantic argument?  Cause you got nothing else?  Nice straw man, now let's lets burn him!

FYI if you ever get back to your friends place that has a super swage, take a few cases with varying degree of pocket diameter and set up the tool for a minimum radius.  If you only see shiny marks on the radius then this may be a good candidate for this test (if it's really loose it won't show what I'm talking about, there are limits you are only displacing a small amount of material).  Now move the case locator rod in a fraction and re-swage and inspect the case.  Repeat this until you either bottom out or you see a second shiny ring below the radius, which I just did and found it worked on some once fired mid 90's 3031 Winchester brass. Ohh the horror, first hand evidence that it's based on belief!  Please test it!  Use layout fluid if you can't see the working marks.




OMG you are an obstinate one, I never said a reamer can't do a good job.  Quite to the contrary I said they are fine as long as they are designed correctly.  I don't own either the Lyman or  Hornady reamer so I can't comment on their design but I highly doubt their tool designers are morons so I have no reason to believe that those tools "suck".  Hell the guy that posted pictures of his deburring tool  job did a great job, you just have to have the discipline to keep it at that depth.

Another point is that swaging work hardens an area of the case that can use it, a reamer does not.  It's a minor point but a point none the less.




WHY do you BELIEVE?  Any evidence, first hand observation, professional experience?  Anything other than I believe?  I've actually tested everything I have claimed in this thread, have you?

Stiles, how DOES one make a primer pocket smaller?  Seriously.  Where does the metal that makes the diameter smaller come from?

stiles,

As I stated before, my friend told me "first hand" about his experience with his Dillon.  He is a very experienced re-loader and I have no reason to doubt his observations or his words on this subject.  YES, I believe my friend.

I posted because some may be unaware that it could happen.

Since, you have seen it and dismissed it.....good for you.  It was your decision to do so.

For some, the burr could be worst (or not).  For some, it may be an issue.  I did post YMWV.

Or maybe you've never heard of YMWV?  

Cause, I started that post with. "Humm........YMWV.........."

And........note the "qualifying words" carefully.........


Anyway, just like with tumbling and getting media stuck in the flash channel.  If you want to dismiss it. FINE.  However, KNOW THAT it can happen.  

KNOWLEGE and KNOWING other people's experience can help with any decision.

That brings me to belief..........

Tell me something?  Didn't someone once say to you, "Don't put your hand on the hot stove cause, you'll get burned."

Did you put your hand on the hot stove because, you had to have first hand knowledge, instead of belief.

Yes, it's an over simplification of "belief" and "I believe..........."  And, you know what the point is.

BTW, I can't immediately get back to his place in Hawaii.  But, I'd be willing to take your $$$ if you wanted to send me there, to further argue the point.  As for your further carrying on........whatever.

Aloha, Mark

I use a DILLON SUPER Swage  







 

From the radius that the swagging punch is displacing at the entry of the primer pocket.

Actually I acknowledged it, stated what I saw and dropped the subject because it becomes a discussion of degree.  You have no visual reference of this issue so the discussion would be about a figment of your imagination.  Naw, I'll pass.

Done

I have both the Dillon and the RCBS- both work great when adjusted properly. I sort my brass by make and yaer. Different brass has different head thickness and this will affect the radius formed into the pocket opening.

One trick to the RCBS swager is to adjust the center support rod of the die so that the swaging is completed with the press arm cammed fully over- this is the portion of press arm travel where leverage is maxed out, and will yield very consistent results.

This method has been working for me since Reagans first term in office.

RCBS swager user here.  I have a big box of crimped .223 brass, and almost went with the Dillon.  But the RCBS seems to work just fine.  I set mine up like a poster a couple posts up has, where you fully cam the press.  I have had no issues with the pockets being too loose.

I do it this way too.  If possible, I buy them after it has been done.

+1  If I can't buy them already cut or find someone else to do it, I use the drill press.

   I would chamfer if there's only several case but for a higher count then the RCBS swager get's used.

Dillon 1050

I'm using a 3 flute, 1/4" diameter carbide countersink with a drill bit stop to control the depth of the cut.  It works fantastic.  I chuck it up in my drill, the case head stops on the drill bit stop and I'm taking off just enough to remove the crimp, mabey .015 worth of material

My Hornady reamer is offically obsolete.

I resized and decapped a few hundred LC cases last night and did a side by side comparison of using a friends Dillon SuperSwage or using a handheld chamfer/debur tool.

I actually think using the chamfer/debur tool is faster and more consistent for me personally.

All you need is a twist, tap, and put it in a container.

Last time I used the Dillon I had some cases that were still a pain to get CCI primers into.

You could actually see the primer shavings in the primer catch tray.

I am hoping that with my current batch I will not have to twist each case by hand at the priming station on the 650 like I did when I swaged them.

+1

3 sec and a drill press...........= Done

RCBS debering tool