Info on PEQ-16, first model? - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Info on PEQ-16, first model?

Posted: 7/29/2015 2:02:43 PM EDT

My Google-fu isn't revealing much about the Insight AN/PEQ-16 Integrated Pointer/Illuminator Module (IPIM) which looks like this:

I'm guessing this was the original PEQ-16 circa 2006, before the PEQ-16A and B were developed? I cannot locate it within Insight's current lineup.

Here are my questions:
1. Are they crap when compared to the current AN/PEQ-16B?
2. Do any military units still operate this model?
3. Does Insight still service them?
4. About what is one worth?
5. Do IR filters from the PEQ-15 fit it? Anything else? (Obviously the remote switch.) Mount?
6. Can the white light be upgraded?

I found the NSN 5855-01-538-5521 and Insight part number IPM-000-A1 for the Integrated Pointer/Illuminator Module (IPIM). WebFLIS shows an original issue date of 2008 and a unit price then of $1,939.
The Operator and Unit Maintenance Manual should be TM 10470B-OI/1 (August 1, 2006), but I cannot locate it online.
The only official document I could locate is this Marine Corps ordnance equipment list (TM 8000-10/1D) from 2010 (page 116).

Any further info would be greatly appreciated.

Posted: 7/29/2015 3:22:57 PM EDT

[#1]

Since I saw this in the lights and lasers section with no one responding at that time...

My strong feeling is this is stolen military gear.

Vic

Posted: 7/29/2015 3:35:04 PM EDT

[#2]

No, Vic, they were purchased originally by the Dept. of Energy and now my sheriff's office has a shot at them, through the Louisiana Federal Property Assistance Agency. I just had never seen one before. I snagged that photo off ebay. I do appreciate your response though. It isn't a "Goat" deal.

I cross-posted it, since I figured more NV gurus might notice it here.

I left a message with Insight, so hopefully they'll share some info. If so, I'll post it.

Posted: 7/29/2015 4:46:38 PM EDT

[#3]

They are milspec lasers and do all of the things a peq15 will do plus you get a white light too.

If the price is right for your agency I would grab them because the USMC seems to like theirs.

Posted: 7/29/2015 6:36:39 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
No, Vic, they were purchased originally by the Dept. of Energy and now my sheriff's office has a shot at them, through the Louisiana Federal Property Assistance Agency. I just had never seen one before. I snagged that photo off ebay. I do appreciate your response though. It isn't a "Goat" deal.

I cross-posted it, since I figured more NV gurus might notice it here.

I left a message with Insight, so hopefully they'll share some info. If so, I'll post it.

View Quote

Copy that thanks.

Only issue was the light itself on the A models were severely underpowered at around 60-70 lumen. The B model improved the white light lumen output with sacrifices to battery life of course.

Posted: 7/29/2015 7:35:45 PM EDT

[#5]

Does the USMC use this model? It appears from my research that SOCOM got them first (around 2006), then by 2009/2010 Insight was filling a large contract for the PEQ-16A (MIPIM) in FDE color for the Corps. I don't think they ever had the original PEQ-16 (IPIM), outside of maybe T&E. (Based on the document linked in my OP, I believe MARCORSYSCOM had originally intended to field them to MARSOC and FAST units as a CQBR/MK18 component, but instead opted to purchase the newer PEQ-16A and attain wider distribution). SOCOM got the PEQ-16A as well in 2007/2008, and the biggest complaint from all end-users seems to have been the low (60? 100 according to this spec sheet) lumen output of the white light, so Surefire made some adapter prototypes and Insight came out with the PEQ-16B (MIPIM) by early 2010, with the only change being a brighter (125 lumens) LED white light. Idk about the Marines, but the big Army had the PEQ-16B by 2013. I think both branches are slowly phasing-in B models to replace A's lost from attrition. (Source: http://psmag.radionerds.com/images/9/91/PS_Magazine_Issue_733_December_2013.pdf page 19). Also, they don't come with batteries anymore.

(https://www.nsncenter.com/Library/PSMAG/PS_744?PageNumber=24)

At least that's what I've pieced together so far.

The price is certainly right, but I work for an extremely low-budget agency, and I over-analyze everything. lol

I'm just trying to consider long-term support for a discontinued product, and any possible upgrades to the white light. It probably makes the most sense to just treat it like a PEQ-15 (like blackghost said, the light's a bonus). They're probably somewhat difficult to damage, and would therefore last us a long time.

I still haven't confirmed if the IR filters and battery cap are the same parts a PEQ-15 uses. They look similar in the pics. The switches do as well. Vic, would you say those are the most frequently lost/damaged parts?

Posted: 7/30/2015 9:42:05 AM EDT

[#6]

The ones the DOE have are from the Marine Corp. I dislike the peq16, but if it's free/cheap and you need the ir capability it is better than nothing.you will need an aditional white light since the integrated one sucks.

Posted: 7/30/2015 2:11:25 PM EDT

[#7]

AFAIK, the "original" AN/PEQ-16 was not used in any real numbers outside of testing and evaluation.

The first widespread use of the '16 series was by the Marine Corps in the AN/PEQ-16A form, with an incandescent white light. The AN/PEQ-16B, as you noted, received an LED upgrade.

Again, to my knowledge, the AN/PEQ-16 series is not in any kind of wide use in the Army or in USSOCOM, the Marine Corps seems to be the primary, nearly exclusive user on a general basis (though this is not to say that they have not been in limited use/purchase by other branches).

The Army is more or less "standardized" on the AN/PEQ-15 (Insight ATPIAL) and the AN/PEQ-15A (LDI DBAL-A2) for individual weapons, while USSOCOM continues to use the LA-5/PEQ family (Insight ATPIAL).

I have not personally used any of the AN/PEQ-16 family other than to finger-fuck them, but I have not heard too much positive about them other than the fact that they have a relatively small footprint for the capabilities. This is not to be understood that they're horrible or unusable - but most folks I've talked to seem as though they'd prefer a separate ATPIAL and WLI module, rather than the PEQ-16's "one stop shop."

As for whether or not Insight will still service them - assuming that they accept and approve of the chain of custody, and would agree to work on them at all, my inclination would be to say that they would prefer not to support this model, and would try to upsell you into AN/PEQ-16Bs. I have no inside information regarding that, so that'd just be my guess, take it for what it's worth.

As far as what they're worth... ::shrug:: if you're talking about buying them as an agency, if you could get them at a good price relative to an AN/PEQ-15, I'd pick 'em up. No reason not to, particularly if you're budget conscious. They'll do everything the ATPIAL will, so if you can get them cheaper than you could get ATPIALs, I see no reason not to. I wouldn't pay too much of a premium over what you could get a '15 for, though.

All current Insight compatible remote switches should work for them, and IIRC, the mount is an integral rail-grabber, just like on the ATPIAL.

No clue about the white light upgrade, but I wouldn't be optimistic. The pattern generators look like they'd be compatible with the ATPIAL, and I would assume that they were, as it would make the most sense, but I couldn't say for sure.

~Augee

Posted: 8/18/2015 5:01:25 PM EDT

[#8]

Update:

Insight was very helpful and even gave me the backstory...

They were part of a joint Army Marine Corps MFAL (multi-function aiming laser) contract purchase, though the Marines eventually went with AN/PEQ-16A and sold them to the FBI. The Special Forces liked them because they could seamlessly switch between IR and visible lasers, and the illuminator is adjusted independently. There was no small disagreement, but higher officials determined that the untrained IPIM operator might be challenged by the extra activation button. This is the main reason the later (A/B) housing was re-designed. The IPIM uses the same parts as the AN/PEQ-15 ATPIAL (aim/neutral density filter, illuminator diffuser, battery cap, and rail grabber). The rail grabber is the same and the bore sight targets are as well since they have the same profile.

Insight has spares on hand for even the proprietary parts, and would be happy to service this model. The visible illuminator cannot be upgraded.

The only production run was the MFAL contract. Some units were provided to other nations such as Canada. The FBI still uses the ones they bought from the Marines. The DOE apparently didn't stick with the original model. There may be some still in use by SOCOM elements. In general they are old news. Email me if you want the manual.

Thanks guys for your help!

Posted: 8/19/2015 12:06:13 PM EDT

[#9]

So did you get 'em?

Glad you were able to get the information you needed, and thanks for sharing.

~Augee

Posted: 8/20/2015 11:13:02 AM EDT

[#10]

DOE still has them, but most users prefer the 15's. When a 15 dies they are being replaced with the 16's since they are in stock and not gonna cost anymore money.

Posted: 8/22/2015 10:33:18 AM EDT

[#11]

The plan is to get 5, but we're waiting on some task force funds. If I could buy with my own funds and keep them, I'd probably get 3, since they're so cheap. Lol

I have my personal 11.5" AR with a Lasermax Uni-IR, Surefire M952V, and my own PVS-14 I've been using.