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Not really on topic but how do you like the G19 with red dot? Ive been seriously considering getting one lately. Have you / do you cc it?
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First, interesting thoughts and inclusion of a red dot for CC is interesting and if you can do it comfortably, cool. I know someone will take issue with potential failure of the electronics, but you're unlikely to need sights or the red dot to be on target in the situation where you need your CCW.
Second, I am laughing at this quoted part and I'm hoping this was a joke thrown in for good measure. You're joking about needing to do this for safety, right? This is like one of those Easter egg jokes in the movies, right? Quoted:
(NOTE: For safety purposes all guns were weighed WITHOUT a round in the chamber. But the magazines are fully loaded.) View Quote |
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The po7 only carries 15 with that extended mag?
Have you ever shot a deer or coyote or a hog with the 5.7? |
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The 5.7 is a neat round and I enjoyed shooting a friend's, but I shoot way too much to consider it. My shooting costs in ammo alone would almost double.
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Not really on topic but how do you like the G19 with red dot? Ive been seriously considering getting one lately. Have you / do you cc it? View Quote |
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First, interesting thoughts and inclusion of a red dot for CC is interesting and if you can do it comfortably, cool. I know someone will take issue with potential failure of the electronics, but you're unlikely to need sights or the red dot to be on target in the situation where you need your CCW. Second, I am laughing at this quoted part and I'm hoping this was a joke thrown in for good measure. You're joking about needing to do this for safety, right? This is like one of those Easter egg jokes in the movies, right? View Quote You are correct about the unloaded chambers, but it is a long story. |
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The po7 only carries 15 with that extended mag? Have you ever shot a deer or coyote or a hog with the 5.7? View Quote I personallyhave not shot any animals with 5.7. But I have seen the results, and they are pretty brutal. Google it and you will find some stuff for sure. |
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the five seven is a really fun gun. i played with one a decade ago before it was easier to get different types of rounds.
OP what kind of holster are you using? |
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That's a clusterfuck of different guns.
How do manage to stay proficient with all that? I'm busy enough staying on top of a Glock 34 and 43. |
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No the extended mag carries 17. I carry it with the 15 round mag. I didn't have the 15 round mage with me when I took the pic, so I removed two rounds when I weighed it. I personallyhave not shot any animals with 5.7. But I have seen the results, and they are pretty brutal. Google it and you will find some stuff for sure. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The po7 only carries 15 with that extended mag? Have you ever shot a deer or coyote or a hog with the 5.7? I personallyhave not shot any animals with 5.7. But I have seen the results, and they are pretty brutal. Google it and you will find some stuff for sure. |
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the five seven is a really fun gun. i played with one a decade ago before it was easier to get different types of rounds. OP what kind of holster are you using? View Quote Tucker Gun Leather - Cover Up Plus There are many great Kydex options out there as well. I really like the T.Rex Kydex IWB Nomad for the Five seveN too: T.Rex Nomad IWB |
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That's a clusterfuck of different guns. How do manage to stay proficient with all that? I'm busy enough staying on top of a Glock 34 and 43. View Quote FN Five Seven Pistol - Long Term Use Range Gun - Updated Here I feel that I have trained enough with these 4 guns that I would be comfortable if I had to use any of them in a defensive situation. Over the last 5 years I must have put at least 20,000 rounds through the 5 Five SeveNs I have owned (sold 2, have 3 now). Over the last 20 years there has been at least one 9mm Glock in my collection. Currently I have 2 9mm Glocks, but at least a dozen have come and gone from my collection over the years. I would have to guess in the last 20 years I have fired somewhere near 100,000 rounds through Glock 9mm pistols (5000 rounds per year x 20 years = 100,000). So I am pretty comfortable with my carry guns and feel I am proficient with all of them. |
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I've seen cherry picked pics. Not that impressed View Quote |
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Good thing five seven holds 21 rounds.... (insert joke here)
With that out of the way, that's some mean looking bullets, I assume jacketed steel with the obvious failure point to fracture on impact/tumble? ETA: I'm positive it would go threw some barriers like sheet metal better than any "normal" hand gun caliber. How's it handle stuff like automotive glass? Wood etc? Seems like such a light bullet which fragments into at least two pieces would stop quickly in a lot of stuff something like 9x19 would keep going in. |
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Good thing five seven holds 21 rounds.... (insert joke here) With that out of the way, that's some mean looking bullets, I assume jacketed steel with the obvious failure point to fracture on impact/tumble? View Quote And I have to agree with the comments from HarrishMasher, I'm a little different than him as I ONLY now carry a FiveseveN. All of my other pistols now live in the safe. |
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I'm ok going from a g19-1911-beretta View Quote Anyways.... I'm not sure what my point was other than that just about every style gun is going to have it's proponents and antagonists. There are not a lot of Pro DA/SA trainers out there but Ernest has to count for something. Plus I don't think you really need 2 different grips with the M9. But whatever..... I get what you're saying samuse, but in the end all the different styles aren't THAT much different. IMHO. I do like to simplify for me too though. I'm not sure I'm smart enough to have a lot of different things going on. Lately I've been trying to focus on guns with no external safeties and all that. Just to keep things simple. Problem is my HiPower is my most accurate gun at the moment...... |
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Glock 19 or Shield are good carry choices. Go with one of those.
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I'm comfortable going from a Glock to an M9 to a 1911 as well.
But comfortable and proficient are often not the same thing. I notice my shooting degrades pretty rapidly when I shoot standardized drills against myself with pistols other than what I regularly train on. |
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I just looked up that ammo, $56 for 25 rounds! Shit better preform like a fucking death ray.
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Good thing five seven holds 21 rounds.... (insert joke here) With that out of the way, that's some mean looking bullets, I assume jacketed steel with the obvious failure point to fracture on impact/tumble? ETA: I'm positive it would go threw some barriers like sheet metal better than any "normal" hand gun caliber. How's it handle stuff like automotive glass? Wood etc? Seems like such a light bullet which fragments into at least two pieces would stop quickly in a lot of stuff something like 9x19 would keep going in. View Quote |
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All pistols suck.
Why carry a bulky expensive odd ball caliber boutique gun when you can get the same results with a 9mm striker gun. Youre fascinated with 5.7 so I knew the answer when I clicked. |
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All pistols suck. AGREED, but the 5.7X28 is closer to a rifle round. Why carry a bulky expensive odd ball caliber boutique gun when you can get the same results with a 9mm striker gun. Because you CAN'T get the same results! Back before I switched to the 5.7X28 for my duty weapon I carried a Glock 17 loaded with Winchester 9mm 127 gr +P+, it still wasn't in the same league as the 5.7X28, not even close! View Quote |
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If the situation in my area deteriorated I would change what I carry. Until then I will carry my CW9 in my front pocket with two spare mags in the offhand pocket.
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The Five Seven seems to have one big glowing positive... 21 round capacity.
velocity isn't a bad second. Best I recall most rifle bullets need at least 1800fps to expand, on paper the five seven is excellent, but with a light weight bullet...It's a coin toss as to wither it's going to be effective or not on different barriers, some it will be much more so, some less so than say a 9x19. I don't recall at what velocity temporary expansion cavity becomes an effective wounding mechanism.. anyone on the top of their head? |
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I know K9DPD in this thread. His department used Five Sevens. I don't know if they still do.
http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/anyone-ever-shoot-the-fn-5-7-pistol-any-opinions?reply=2843236911446417#4131082102 |
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All pistols suck. Why carry a bulky expensive odd ball caliber boutique gun when you can get the same results with a 9mm striker gun. Youre fascinated with 5.7 so I knew the answer when I clicked. View Quote - 40% less recoil than 9mm allows me to get back on target faster for more accurate follow-up shots. In the end, that is the goal of self-defense with a pistol...get as many rounds on target as quickly as possible. - Rifle like performance...A 5.7x28 bullet traveling at 2400 fps will penetrate barriers that 9mm can't, including Level IIIA armor. - 21 rounds on tap. You simply can't effectively conceal a 9mm pistol with 21 rounds. - a spare loaded 20 round magazine is half the weight of a loaded 15 round 9mm magazine - The full sized 57 weighs less than a 15 round Compact 9mm pistol. |
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I know K9DPD in this thread. His department used Five Sevens. I don't know if they still do. http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/anyone-ever-shoot-the-fn-5-7-pistol-any-opinions?reply=2843236911446417#4131082102 View Quote |
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The question then becomes why is it not more widely used? Why is the military not using it? What do folks that shoot people in the face have to say about it?
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The question then becomes why is it not more widely used? Why is the military not using it? What do folks that shoot people in the face have to say about it? View Quote Agencies employing the FN Five Seven It suspect it is not more widely used simply because of cost. It is almost three times the cost of a standard hi-cap 9mm service pistol. I read a great excerpt by a US Serviceman in Iraq of a shooting with a Five seveN pistol by a Belgian Officer. I just spent 15 mins trying to find the link. When I find it I will post it. Basically the Belgian officer fired one round of FN SS198 at a target at 50 yards. The pathology showed the bullet entered his chest and came to rest in his buttock. It did some serious damage along its path. One shot at 50 yards the guy dropped instantly and that was the end of the story. |
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Good read as I have/carry 3 out of 4 of those as well! I've been carrying the P-07 almost exclusively just because I shoot it so well although it is a chunky little b
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The Five Seven seems to have one big glowing positive... 21 round capacity. velocity isn't a bad second. Best I recall most rifle bullets need at least 1800fps to expand, on paper the five seven is excellent, but with a light weight bullet...It's a coin toss as to wither it's going to be effective or not on different barriers, some it will be much more so, some less so than say a 9x19. I don't recall at what velocity temporary expansion cavity becomes an effective wounding mechanism.. anyone on the top of their head? View Quote I truly think the ONLY thing that keeps the FN FiveseveN from being more popular is the damn price. FN manufacturers weapons in batches and pretty much sells out the FiveseveN as fast as they are available, so what's their incentive to reduce the price? Everyone who has shot my FiveseveN is amazed by the accuracy, low recoil, and how light it is. Follow up shots are insane fast. It will (with the right availabile loads) penetrate Level IIIA body armor, will shoot through 1 1/4" bulletproof glass. |
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The question then becomes why is it not more widely used? Why is the military not using it? What do folks that shoot people in the face have to say about it? View Quote I've got no dog in the hunt. But there's no way you can convince me 9mm is superior to any other round out there. I'm a proponent of the 9mm. I've mostly shot 9mm. It's mostly been in my defense guns since I've kept a gun around for defense. But that doesn't mean there aren't choices that may work better. Especially at some things (OR do some things better I guess is what I mean). Everything has it's upsides and downsides. Some more than others. |
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Oh c'mon Brad, you know as well as anyone that what the military uses isn't always going to be the best thing ever. There are a lot of other factors to consider in that setting. I've got no dog in the hunt. But there's no way you can convince me 9mm is superior to any other round out there. I'm a proponent of the 9mm. I've mostly shot 9mm. It's mostly been in my defense guns since I've kept a gun around for defense. But that doesn't mean there aren't choices that may work better. Especially at some things (OR do some things better I guess is what I mean). Everything has it's upsides and downsides. Some more than others. View Quote |
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Gotcha. But then you see guys like Stukas87 (I think it was him) post the MP7 in use and we hear that round is not so great (maybe it's good at some thngs???)...... Who knows why they do what they do... LOL. But I get your point. Could be a money thing. Because even spec ops probably have some limit as to what they get. Or maybe not.
Does FN produce that pistol in the USA? |
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At $.32 a round for practice ammo, I'm just not seeing the draw. 45 ACP is even considerably cheaper than that.
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Gotcha. But then you see guys like Stukas87 (I think it was him) post the MP7 in use and we hear that round is not so great (maybe it's good at some thngs???)...... Who knows why they do what they do... LOL. But I get your point. Could be a money thing. Because even spec ops probably have some limit as to what they get. Or maybe not. Does FN produce that pistol in the USA? View Quote |
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Carry whatever works for you !!!! But just a thought- How much training do you think you'll be doing with it due to cost of ammo ?
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OP, interesting and well written post. Congratulations on your logic and choice.
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I'm about to pick up 2 more cases of 9mm for $189 a piece. View Quote On the other had it costs me $179.99 delivered for 500 rounds of SS197. It hurts, but worth it to me to. I have a lot more 9mm pistols than 5.7 pistols and burn through 9mm much faster than 5.7x28. I would say if you averaged it out over the year I shoot 50 rounds of SS197 a week and 200 rounds of 9mm a week. Lots of 22lr too. I have some really nice 22lr suppressed pistols and rifles. The pistols I built up from volquartsen frames and parts and tac-sol uppers, mini red dots etc. Lots of fun and super accurate with the right ammo. |
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Carry whatever works for you !!!! But just a thought- How much training do you think you'll be doing with it due to cost of ammo ? View Quote I have been shooting this way for years. I have thousands of rounds through my Five Seven pistols. I have owned 5 of them, currently I own 3. I have a long term review going on one of my Five seveN pistols here. I only have 2300 rounds through this one, but I add 50 rounds a week at least: FN Five Seven Pistol - Long Term Use Range Gun - Updated Here So to answer your question, "Yes", not only have I thought about it, I've been living it for many years. |
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I just did the same. I also treated myself to 1000 rounds AE 124gr Suppressor Ammo. I found it on sale for $12 a box. Couldn't pass it up. On the other had it costs me $179.99 delivered for 500 rounds of SS197. It hurts, but worth it to me to. I have a lot more 9mm pistols than 5.7 pistols and burn through 9mm much faster than 5.7x28. I would say if you averaged it out over the year I shoot 50 rounds of SS197 a week and 200 rounds of 9mm a week. Lots of 22lr too. I have some really nice 22lr suppressed pistols and rifles. The pistols I built up from volquartsen frames and parts and tac-sol uppers, mini red dots etc. Lots of fun and super accurate with the right ammo. View Quote |
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I thought velocity is only part of the equation. Doesn't mass/weight weigh heavily into the equation as well? View Quote HarrishMasher is correct on how effective the round is even with the absolute worst rounds available in the caliber. FN SS197 (Blue Tip) only clocks typically around mid to high 1,700 fps. And it's still one nasty SOB. Ammo is readily available that will clock 2,400 fps out of the FiveseveN pistol and over 3,000 fps out of the FN PS90. Summarizing, how many pistols... Weighs 28 ounces FULLY LOADED with 21 rounds of FN SS 198 (Green Tip) Carry 21 rounds without an extended magazine Shoot as flat as the 5.7X28 Has almost zero recoil Is as accurate as it is. Will penetrate Level IIIA body armor Will penetrate 1 1/4" bulletproof glass Not many (if any) can even come close to meeting the above criteria. After years of carrying a pistol (both on and off duty) I came to the conclusion that the FN FiveseveN suits my needs better than any other pistol. I've carried off duty over the years (in no particular order) Glock 26 9mm Seecamp .32 acp Rohrbaugh R9S 9mm Colt Gold Cup 1911 .45 acp Glock 17 9mm Glock 22 .40 S&W H&K P7 (PSP) 9mm I now ONLY carry my FN FiveseveN MK II. |
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Liberty Civil Defense 9mm and Body Armor |
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