I just got an email from him saying it's almost done.  Sear engagement is fixed, he made my Ambi safety to a single sided, said it's more of a positive click now and the trigger breaks at 6-6.5 pounds.  Which is what I wanted.  

I'm so freaking excited.  It's been a long wait.  

Where in Wisconsin? I'm right across the river from PDC

Nice gats.  Why so heavy?

How do you like that Pachmeyer grip on your Hi Power, it is a royal bitch to get it on.

Vince

Soldier65, Prairie Du Chien is a fur piece from here. The smith is in MKE area.  

backbencher: I've had this pistol for a long time, 10 years or so....  But it's been down for the last 3 or so.....  I forget how long.  As far as heavy trigger goes, compared to what?  I'm going to use it as a carry gun.  I don't like a light trigger for a defensive gun.  Adrenaline and all.....  And really, that's lighter than that Glock pictured or the M&P I have.  It's probably closer to the break on my M9 in single action.  IN DA the M9 is a lot heavier than that.   And my main carry gun is a 13# DAO 442, so half that pull weight is light, IMHO.  The Glock I had I swear broke at about 8-9 pounds and the M&P is 8.  If it was just a range or hunting gun, or competition, I might go lighter. That's my philosophy on triggers.  It might not be a popular philosophy, but it's mine.  

Vinny302.  I actually have hogues on there right now.  The pachmyr's are good to go though.  I think it looks a little better than the hogue, but it makes it feel a bit more blocky and they're not as grippy as hogues, but I remember them working well.  On both a HiPower and I really like them on a 1911, even more so on a 1911.  However, I would prefer hogue panels and no finger grooves, but I've never seen that for a hipower.   I think mine were hard to get on, but I got them used from someone, so probably not nearly as hard as if they were new.....  I'm thinking I want to cut the front part off and just use them as panels, but I don't know if they would stay put in the front properly.  

 

Was just curious.  I think my Glock 23 trigger is lighter than stock.  I prefer lighter triggers, and was curious why you were wanting a SA trigger heavier than a stock Glock.

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Is your well worn in?  I owned a G19 shot my friends G23 and have handled some others.  They all seem like their triggers were very heavy to me.  But I did have a friend who had a G17 that was well worn and it wasn't heavy at all.  

I'm not suggesting you watch this whole video, but Jerry Miculek measures the trigger pull on a typical Glock and it breaks at about 9 pounds.  That's what they normally feel like to me.  Have you ever measured yours?  

Ooops, I apologize, it's at 9:15 in the vid and he gets a hair  under 8 lbs.  My bad.  All three were right around there.  That's what my M&P .45 breaks at too.

Mine's been modified to the point that 1911 shooters are amazed a Glock trigger can do that.  It's not a great 1911 trigger, but it's better than a stock Glock trigger.

Gotcha....  

Well, for me it's all about not really sure what adrenaline will do and not wanting to have something too light to touch off a round before I want it to break.  Kind of a thing.  It's why I don't really look for the reset either.  I used to do that, but I had a few times where a shot broke a little before I wanted it to.  Nothing dangerous at the range.  But not something I really want to do if out in the world.  So  I'm retraining myself to let my finger all the way regardless of what kind of gun it is.  And since I shoot DA revolvers more now, it makes sense to.

So.... the big question is: Is any amount of movement in the sear acceptable? He definitely made it a lot tighter and I'm happy. He also made my ambi safety single sided and the trigger pull is real nice. He says it's at 6-6.5 pounds and it definitely feels light to me. Any lighter and I'd almost think it's too light for a carry gun.

But the part that I had fixed and was most concerned isn't COMPLETELY gone and I wonder if that's OK. What happens is if I hand cycle the slide really slowly with my hand closer to the muzzle, there's just enough slop that the hammer isn't QUITE all the down. And when you go to engage the safety, sometimes you can feel it stick a little and it's pressing the sear in the rest of the way. If you cycle towards the rear, or even at a normal pace, meaning not super slow, it doesn't happen and it's fine.

I did check the "click test" and I can't make it click after pulling the trigger with the safety on and then pulling back on the hammer. So no click. However, if I look into their where the sear engages the hammer, I can actually see a tiny bit of movement when pulling the trigger with the safety engaged. It is miniscule and in my estimation, not enough to matter.

The gunsmith claims it's completely safe and he did make it a lot better than it was. And I guess was thinking it wasn't bad enough to order a whole new hammer and sear. But I'm wondering if I should've told him to, or if that little bit of movement is no big deal. As far as the gunsmith's credentials, he works as a gunsmith for Gander Mountain and his discipline is pistols in general. He's claimed to have worked on several HiPowers and the trigger pull definitely shows it.

I feel like I should be OK with it. But it does kind of bug me that it's not completely gone and I get that little bit of stickiness when engaging the safety. However, it's only when I'm hand cycling it super duper slow and under normal circumstances it does not appear.

So for you HiPower experts... what say you?

That is what I am trying to avoid in mine.

I am not an HP expert, but to my thinking, the "click" happens when the sear moves enough to partially disengage from the hammer.  After all, the click has to come from somewhere.  Someone else said that "any movement is bad," and the tiny movement I a precursor to the click, but I think that as long as the hammer is not slipping off the sear ("click), it should still be safe. Just remember to check occasionally to see if the click comes back.

just my $.02, but I am still learning the HP myself.  Trying to fit the sear on my own is definitely a learning experience.  Mostly in learning how to install the sear with only two hands.  Again, and again, and again.

That's kind of the rub in my situation.  Because I know how big the sear nose is, and I know the little bit of movement I have isn't anywhere near that amount.  Meaning the majority of surfaces are contacting at all times.  It's just that it moves a tiny bit.  It seems like it's not unsafe.  But it also seems like it's not quite right.

After doing some research, a guy named Bob Reed says .005" is acceptable movement.  Some say ZERO.  I don't know.  I think mine is good enough and if it seems like it would have to move a whole heck of a lot more to be a problem.   Zero movement would at least give you that piece of mind though.  But I think when I shoot it I'll just test the safety in between each round for the first mag or so and see how it does.  And the just keep an eye on it.  

I have the thing on my hip right now and the thing is, it feels like a much smaller gun that it is for carrying.  I love it.  I may just have to get another to compare and have and shoot.  In case this one ever does get bad enough to have to need more work.

JJREA. I finally sorted out my sear/ safety interaction. Also, thanks to you, I chopped my standard ambi safety into a single side. Took about 30 minutes with Mr. Dremel; worked very well.

So how did you work yours out?  I'm so frustrated right now.  My gunsmith thinks it's fine, but he'll work on it more.  I'm not sure if he'll be able to get it to be fine without getting a new hammer and sear set.  But I don't fully understand the geometry behind it.  And I'm not sure if he does either.   And then I just get fed up with the whole situation that I want to throw up my hands and quit.  But the one thing is that to me, it's like the perfect gun.  If it would just be in proper order.  Perfect size for carry, and really it's a full sized gun.  A do it all kind of gun.......  If it would just be sorted out.  And then it makes me wonder if I do get it sorted out, will it last a good while or just be mucked up again after another 2k rounds.........

First, I bought a new hammer and sear set.  The sear is the more important.  If you like your hammer, I think you can get away with re-using it.  Just inspect the full-cock shelf, watch for signs of wear (should be a sharp edge, not sloped or rounded).

When I fit the sear.  First, my tool was one of those "diamond-stick" knife sharpeners, the kind that retracts into a pen shape.  When you look at the sear as it is installed, there is a flange on the port-side, low, that projects toward the safety. Installed un-filed, the safety would not engage; this is to be expected.  I filed away at the bottom of that flange until the safety engaged.  Every two or three swipes of my tool, I stopped and re-assembled the damn frame to check for progress. The safety began engaging on try 7 or 8.

After that, I told you that the safety would not engage is the "takedown" position.  After staring at the sear/safety interaction for a LONG time, I filed away on the aft portion of that flange. Still, working very slowly.  3 or 4 tries, and my sear was fit. Works in all respects,  zero movement on the click test.  Also, I know my pistol much better than I did going in to it.

Try this at your discretion, and at your own risk.  I was nervous as hell to start, but am glad I took the chance.  Get a new C&S sear; you can still go back to the old one if you feel you messed up.

ETA:


This is looking at the sear from the back left.  That flange in the bottom in the foreground (on the left) is the flange I am referring to.

Thanks. Fixed it.

So you did nothing to the hammer sear contact surfaces, eh?  If I'm reading that right.  Just fitting the sear to your safety.  My problems are more in the sear / hammer engagement.  The only reason the safety sticks when I slowly hand cycle is because the geometry of the the slide lifting up just a hair, because it only happens when I cycle slowly with my hand on front of the slide, and the hammer isn't QUITE fully cocked in that scenario.  And the safety pushes it all the way.  So the fit of my safety is actually spot on.  But I'm not sure if the sear or hammer needs to be modified for it to ALWAYS drop in regardless of how the thing is cycled.  I have a feeling the surface of the sear is too flat.

You are correct that I did nothing to the hammer/sear interface.  I bought the hammer and sear from C&S as a group specifically to make my life easier.  Of course, then I had to change HAMMERS, but that is a nightmare for a different discussion.

The click test issues, as I understand them, stem from the sear/safety interface, with there being too much play between them, and the safety not completely blocking the sear.  If you are having hammer/sear interface issues, I am not sue what that is.  My gut reaction (for me) would be to just replace them both.

Both my sear and my hammer notch were very flat, and very defined, with a definite and sharp edge.

I reread your post, and wanted to add something.  From my painstaking examination of my frame I made a few observations.

As the slide cocks the hammer, it pushes the hammer past the full-cock mark. This makes sense, letting the sear every opportunity to catch the hammer. The sear, pushed by the sear spring, follows the hammer into a position further than it would be at full cock.  I was unable to engage the safety in this position.

If I pulled the hammer all of the way back (similar to the slide cocking it, my hammer would occasionally stick in the fully back position.  Pushing the safety did make it feel like it "slipped"  into place.  I think this I most likely because my safety pressed against the sear, which changed its pressure against the hammer just enough to jar it into battery.  This slippage from the fully back position to the full cock is normal, from what I can tell.  By the way, the stickiness disappeared when I greased my safety pin/hammer pivot.  There is a slight notch on the right side of the ejector, against the hammer.  I packed this with moly grease, then dipped my safety pin in moly grease before I installed it.  I then cleaned up the excess. Works great for me now.  If your pistol is bone dry, it may just be from extra friction.  

Now, you say there is no noise on the click test, but a slight amount of movement.  Tell me again; is there any sear edge visible when you pull the trigger from the rear?  Does it only happen when you slowly hand cycle, or every time?

The reason I freaked about my sear is that when I did the click test, enough of the sear popped up that I could just push the hammer forward and the sear would disengage. If you have no click, and you can't do that, I figure you are okay.

Well I really don't think when I cycle my slide the hammer is going PAST the full cock position.  Let me go grab it and see.  Yeah, no.  The slide is definitely not pushing the hammer PAST full cock.  It's just enough to cock it.  And when I slowly hand cycle from the front, it's not quite enough to be ALL the way cocked.  I should post pics or a vid.  

And yes, in both cases of the slowly hand cycling and pulling the trigger with safety on, I can visibly see the top of my sear.  I can see it move when I pull the trigger just a slight bit.  And then I can also see it drop back down when I engage the safety after slowly hand cycling.  But NO, it's definitely not enough to allow the hammer to fall if I push on it.  Which is really the rub of the whole thing.  The issue is that I don't think it's enough to be unsafe, but it's probably more than some experts would say is proper.  The dudes over at 1911forum tell me there should be ZERO movement.  

I might do like you are saying and get the hammer and sear.  But you hit on what has stopped me before.  Getting the hammer strut and spring out of there.  I'm afraid of that process.  I'm not even sure how to do it. How did you do it?  I think someone over at 1911forum mentioned someone came up with a tool to help.  I have the AGI gunsmithing video and I remember thinking to myself when I watched him do it, "there's no fricking way"  

There's gotta be a tool that makes it doable.  So spill the beans.  How did you get it done?

Quite frankly, my work on my pistol is bubba-gunsmithing at its most basic.
My Tools: Claw Hammer, set of steel punches (from Home Depot), needle-nose pliers, vice (regular shop vise/ nothing fancy), piece of soft 1x4 wood, Dremel with various bits), and the afore-mentioned knife sharpener (Gerber Knife Sharpener Pen, to be precise)

To remove the hammer strut pin. I drilled a 1/4" hole in my board.  I set up the hammer strut pin over the hole, supported the strut, and clamped the hammer and strut into place. The pin drives out the same direction as the other pins on the pistol, so will be coming out the left side.  I grabbed my punch (slightly smaller than the pin; have to leave room for the material to fold back, and hammered away carefully, but forcefully. I ended up bending my strut, but it is a pretty soft metal and was able to bend it back into shape. I recommend buying a replacement strut pin, but I re-used my old one.

I got my new hammer out, found my safety pin did not fit into it well.  I tool Mr. Dremel (with the finest-tooth metal bit) and bored out the hammer.  Single pass and re-check.  Once it fit, I put the parts back in place.  I hammered the end of the strut pin (the ragged, right side that I had been beating on) to fold any excess material into a cone/point, to aid in instillation. I positioned everything together in the vise, with needle-nose pliers holding the pin in place.  Then I cranked on the vise, using it to press the in back into the hammer assembly. Lastly, I hammered and filed at the pin to ensure proper fit back into the frame.

Nerve-wracking while I did it, but gave me a great sense of accomplishment, and I know my High-Power better than ever.

ETA: I did not touch the hammer spring.  Did not need to.  If you have trouble getting the hammer assembly out, just follow this: Turn frame on the side, grab a punch.  One hand holds the punch. With the other hand, reach through the grip (have to take the panels off) and put tension on the sear spring (press rearward). once the spring is pressed back, punch out the sear pin.  Remove sear.  Pull hammer back, remove sear spring> Rotate hammer forward, down into the mag well; this will remove tension on the hammer spring, allowing you to pull it from its notch.  Rotate ejector forward, line up and pull out safety.  presto: your hammer assembly is free.

ETA Again: The process is all positional.  I was afraid at first too, and ended up with a few bruised knuckles. After putting in the sear to test it (fully assembling the pistol), only to tear it back apart 30 seconds later about 12 times, you get more confident. With the hammer back, the hammer strut pulls up, making room to remove the sear spring (as long a there is no sear there). With the hammer forward, all tension is taken off of the hammer spring. There is a notch in the ejector that allow removal of the safety; it is the ejector that is actually holding the safety in. Rotate the ejector forward, and it lines the notch up.

So you actually took the hammer out without taking the hammer strut and spring out?  Oh man I'm confused.  I didn't even know you could do that.  I've gotta get the AGI video out again and watch it.  I can't even picture how you would do that.    I've had the sear and safety and ejector out, and the sear spring too.  But I'm not sure how you did that with the hammer..........

If you look at the picture, the spring does not touch the area round the hammer.  I just drove out the pin connecting the hammer to the strut.

After you take out the sear, push the hammer forward, until it is inside the magazine well. that will free up the tension on the hammer spring until you can unhook it.  It is then hanging free when you remove the safety, you can pull the entire assembly out.

I just didn't know you could take the hammer out without actually taking the whole assembly out.  Or maybe I'm reading your post wrong.  Did you have that out of the gun when you took the hammer off of that?  Which is probably how you bent the strut, eh?  


A dude over at 1911forum, well actually a vendor, sells a nifty tool that helps you take the spring off.  And one for the firing pin removal .

I bent the strut after the assembly was out, while I was driving the pin out.  I had neglected to support the strut as I hammered away. I removed the entire unit together, then changed the hammer. It is actually pretty simple to remove the hammer and strut assembly.

Got it.  For some reason I read the description wrong......

I'm still undecided on what to do, other than I'm going to test fire it and check the safety and hammer between each shot for the first few mags and see what it does.  I still think I should probably get it to be closer to zero movement.  And the smith said he's willing to work on it more and had some ideas on how to do it.