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Posted: 9/1/2015 12:33:41 AM EDT
What bullet weights would you recommend for 9mm FMJ training/practice ammo?  I seem to see 115 grain, 124 grain, and maybe even 147 grain commonly offered by manufacturers, many times for the exact same price.  I wasn't sure what the upsides & downsides were in using one over the other and was hoping to get some advice & opinions.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 9/1/2015 5:31:27 AM EDT
[#1]
Lots of opinions on this topic.  There are those that say buy whatever is cheapest and shoot them.  I think those comments are mostly around plinking and not really training.  If you are seriously training, I think your practice loads should try to match what you carry.  If you carry 9mm 147 Speer/CCI Gold Dots, I see that lots of people say practice with 147gr Speer Lawman.  If you carry 124gr Federal HST, I see that some recommend practicing with Federal American Eagle 124gr FMJ.  I think it's good to shoot your carry ammo once in a while to make sure it does match what you are practicing with.  I do that, but it isn't so good on your wallet.  Winchester makes a line of Train and Defend, where they match lower cost FMJ ammo with their defensive HP ammo.  Good idea.  IDK... A friend said that for a defensive handgun at short distances, does it really matter?  I am one that thinks it does.  Hope I never have to find out for real.

Others find a practice load that shoots similar to their carry ammo.  I find that S&B 115gr shoots a lot like Federal HST 124gr (std. Press.), so since that is what I carry, I practice mostly with S&B, even plinking.  So I guess to answer your question, it is the age old "it depends" answer.
Link Posted: 9/1/2015 8:33:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Whatever non-Combloc ammo Walmart is selling is fine with me.  The always popular, 'practice with what you carry' advice is, in reality, no more than an internet gun forum myth:  It looks good on the screen, sounds great, and appears to make sense; but, at the same time, it means absolutely nothing useful.  (I've got well over 1/4 million rounds downrange to prove it, too.)  

There's been many an afternoon when I've fired whatever was on the bench in, say, 9 x 19mm.  Bullet weights, and/or powder charges within the same pistol caliber have positively never mattered - Not to me, and not to any of the male or female students I was training.  I've had intermediately skilled women put every round into the center of a target, and then turn to me and say, 'Those last few rounds seemed louder!'  I usually smile and reply, 'Well, yeah, they should have; those last three rounds were 357 Magnum!'  

You should see the looks of amazement I've seen on students' faces when, all of a sudden, they realize they've just successfully fired off much-dreaded, full-house, 357 magnum cartridges without the slightest problem!  Don't fill your head with other people's nonsense; and you won't create problems for yourself either at the range or, for that matter, anywhere else as well.  
Link Posted: 9/1/2015 1:43:50 PM EDT
[#3]
I carry 9mm Luger +P+ 124 Grain Bonded Jacket Hollow Point and I train with 9mm Dynamit Nobel (Geco) 124gr. FMJ Ammo  They perform pretty much the same.  I like the 124 grain because it performs more consistently than 115 grain and is readily available...  
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 10:45:49 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks for the advice and opinions :)  Just snagged myself 1000 rounds of Aguila 124gr FMJ.  Most of the prices I'd seen on 124gr were the same as the 115gr stuff anyway so as long as that remains true, I'll stick to the 124gr stuff.

Thanks!
Link Posted: 9/2/2015 1:43:19 PM EDT
[#5]
+10 for Aguila 124 grain...  
Link Posted: 9/6/2015 9:17:27 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I carry 9mm Luger +P+ 124 Grain Bonded Jacket Hollow Point and I train with 9mm Dynamit Nobel (Geco) 124gr. FMJ Ammo  They perform pretty much the same.  I like the 124 grain because it performs more consistently than 115 grain and is readily available...  
View Quote



I generally agree with this, the 115 grains stuff is the loss leader, bottom of the barrel ammo. It may work well, it may not--usually when you see people having gun problems it's with loss leader 115 grain ball......I have started shooting heavier ammo, even if it's loss leader it seems to function better.....
Link Posted: 9/7/2015 4:08:51 AM EDT
[#7]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I generally agree with this, the 115 grains stuff is the loss leader, bottom of the barrel ammo. It may work well, it may not--usually when you see people having gun problems it's with loss leader 115 grain ball......I have started shooting heavier ammo, even if it's loss leader it seems to function better.....
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Quoted:

I carry 9mm Luger +P+ 124 Grain Bonded Jacket Hollow Point and I train with 9mm Dynamit Nobel (Geco) 124gr. FMJ Ammo  They perform pretty much the same.  I like the 124 grain because it performs more consistently than 115 grain and is readily available...  






I generally agree with this, the 115 grains stuff is the loss leader, bottom of the barrel ammo. It may work well, it may not--usually when you see people having gun problems it's with loss leader 115 grain ball......I have started shooting heavier ammo, even if it's loss leader it seems to function better.....
Just a side point, I do not know if you know what a "loss leader" actually is.  To be a loss leader an item has to be sold under cost to get people into the store and I HIGHLY doubt places are selling 115 grn 9mm below cost to get people into the store because that's what would have to been happening for the ammo to be considered a "loss leader."



Personally I have shot 115 grn from many many different brands and have not really found any that is not suitable for practice.  Sure WWB might have a lower power charge than say your Speer Lawman but I doubt it makes that big of a difference.  People have brand preferences with one brand or another but I seriously doubt you're going to buy some 9mm from a big manufactures and find out that it's anemic or won't cycle your pistol because the power charge is too low.  If companies consistently loaded ammo like that they would not stay in business.    










OP find a load you like and stack it.  I wouldn't worry too much about small details.  Rounds downrange with practice are much more valuable IMO








Link Posted: 9/7/2015 8:17:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Just a side point, I do not know if you know what a "loss leader" actually is.  To be a loss leader an item has to be sold under cost to get people into the store and I HIGHLY doubt places are selling 115 grn 9mm below cost to get people into the store because that's what would have to been happening for the ammo to be considered a "loss leader."

Personally I have shot 115 grn from many many different brands and have not really found any that is not suitable for practice.  Sure WWB might have a lower power charge than say your Speer Lawman but I doubt it makes that big of a difference.  People have brand preferences with one brand or another but I seriously doubt you're going to buy some 9mm from a big manufactures and find out that it's anemic or won't cycle your pistol because the power charge is too low.  If companies consistently loaded ammo like that they would not stay in business.    



OP find a load you like and stack it.  I wouldn't worry too much about small details.  Rounds downrange with practice are much more valuable IMO



View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I carry 9mm Luger +P+ 124 Grain Bonded Jacket Hollow Point and I train with 9mm Dynamit Nobel (Geco) 124gr. FMJ Ammo  They perform pretty much the same.  I like the 124 grain because it performs more consistently than 115 grain and is readily available...  



I generally agree with this, the 115 grains stuff is the loss leader, bottom of the barrel ammo. It may work well, it may not--usually when you see people having gun problems it's with loss leader 115 grain ball......I have started shooting heavier ammo, even if it's loss leader it seems to function better.....
Just a side point, I do not know if you know what a "loss leader" actually is.  To be a loss leader an item has to be sold under cost to get people into the store and I HIGHLY doubt places are selling 115 grn 9mm below cost to get people into the store because that's what would have to been happening for the ammo to be considered a "loss leader."

Personally I have shot 115 grn from many many different brands and have not really found any that is not suitable for practice.  Sure WWB might have a lower power charge than say your Speer Lawman but I doubt it makes that big of a difference.  People have brand preferences with one brand or another but I seriously doubt you're going to buy some 9mm from a big manufactures and find out that it's anemic or won't cycle your pistol because the power charge is too low.  If companies consistently loaded ammo like that they would not stay in business.    



OP find a load you like and stack it.  I wouldn't worry too much about small details.  Rounds downrange with practice are much more valuable IMO






Fine. Generic, value line, cheap ass, plinking ammo that's designed to sell cheap at mass market. Happy? In any event such ammo is notorious for causing issues with function. Ask any dealer how many times they have sold someone a gun and had them bring it back because "It didn't work".....a slight investigation reveals that the reason for the problem was shitty, cheap, weak ammo. Not long ago at a large dealers seminar the Winchester rep had an open revolt by several dealers who were pissed off about this very issue.
Link Posted: 9/7/2015 10:26:35 AM EDT
[#9]
This thread intrigued me.  RavenU had the same input as my training buddy which was different than mine.  So yesterday at the range, I brought a bunch of different rounds to shoot with my 9mm Shield, just to see if I could really tell the difference, including my carry ammo, Federal HST 124gr std. press.  I brought S&B 115gr FMJ (my usual range ammo), Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ, Lawman 124gr FMJ, American Eagle 124gr FMJ, Armscor 124gr FMJ, and Perfecta 115gr FMJ.  I did a bunch of draw and fire drills with a shot timer, timing beep to first fire and split times between shots (I do at least 3 per draw).  Target was at around 20 feet (5 - six inch circles).  Draw to first fire was pretty consistent with all ammo types as you would expect (1.7 to 1.9 seconds).  Had a couple slightly faster and a few slightly slower.  Yeah, I know that isn't very fast, but I'm working on it.  Split times between shots were also pretty consistent, which surprised me.  Accuracy was acceptable, all shots but one within the 6 inch circle I was aiming at (had one flyer - yup, low left - flinch).  Bottom line, I guess, practice ammo, at least the ones I brought, doesn't really seem to make a whole lot of difference.  Maybe if I was shooting for the fastest split times?  Recoil mitigation effort and sight recovery timing was about the same for all the follow-up shots.

Anyway, my training buddy said, "See?  I told you it doesn't matter".  I think what does matter, is that we keep practicing and strive to improve.  I now think that as long as your practice ammo is reliable and is loaded so that they are "reasonably" similar in feel, you should be ok.  I don't carry +P+ ammo, and would be interested to hear from those that do as to whether practicing with standard pressure rounds throws you off.  Certainly with what I use, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

ETA: Don't ask me about how much time it takes me to change magazines.  holy crap!  I have to practice that a hell of a lot more!
Link Posted: 9/7/2015 3:37:19 PM EDT
[#10]
What's amazing is when you look at homicides and understand how many of them are excellent chest or head shots, and the shooters are carrying cheezo guns with heavy trigger pulls, and they never practice, and don't pay the slightest attention to grip etc.   Just point and shoot and make a great shot.
Link Posted: 9/8/2015 10:38:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This thread intrigued me.  RavenU had the same input as my training buddy which was different than mine.  So yesterday at the range, I brought a bunch of different rounds to shoot with my 9mm Shield, just to see if I could really tell the difference, including my carry ammo, Federal HST 124gr std. press.  I brought S&B 115gr FMJ (my usual range ammo), Blazer Brass 115gr FMJ, Lawman 124gr FMJ, American Eagle 124gr FMJ, Armscor 124gr FMJ, and Perfecta 115gr FMJ.  I did a bunch of draw and fire drills with a shot timer, timing beep to first fire and split times between shots (I do at least 3 per draw).  Target was at around 20 feet (5 - six inch circles).  Draw to first fire was pretty consistent with all ammo types as you would expect (1.7 to 1.9 seconds).  Had a couple slightly faster and a few slightly slower.  Yeah, I know that isn't very fast, but I'm working on it.  Split times between shots were also pretty consistent, which surprised me.  Accuracy was acceptable, all shots but one within the 6 inch circle I was aiming at (had one flyer - yup, low left - flinch).  Bottom line, I guess, practice ammo, at least the ones I brought, doesn't really seem to make a whole lot of difference.  Maybe if I was shooting for the fastest split times?  Recoil mitigation effort and sight recovery timing was about the same for all the follow-up shots.

Anyway, my training buddy said, "See?  I told you it doesn't matter".  I think what does matter, is that we keep practicing and strive to improve.  I now think that as long as your practice ammo is reliable and is loaded so that they are "reasonably" similar in feel, you should be ok.  I don't carry +P+ ammo, and would be interested to hear from those that do as to whether practicing with standard pressure rounds throws you off.  Certainly with what I use, it doesn't seem to make a difference.

ETA: Don't ask me about how much time it takes me to change magazines.  holy crap!  I have to practice that a hell of a lot more!
View Quote


Thats a great test.  Thank you for doing that and sharing the results :)  I'm curious how the accuracy compares between 115gr & 124gr loads from different manufacturers at say....slow fire, 25 yards, shooting for groups.

I've got some 124gr Aguila & 124gr Speer Lawman on the way to my doorstep.  I've got some 115gr WWB and some 115gr Federal "RTP" stuff at home.  Unfortunately I doubt I'm a good enough shot to outshoot any of the brands or weights of ammo and the limiting factor would probably be my own skillset.
Link Posted: 9/10/2015 4:00:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Well....  it's a test anyway.  Training buddy sneaked a snap cap into one of my mags.  Totally screwed me up.  Should have just cleared the malfunction and continued, but I fumbled around for a few seconds.  If you want to get better, get yourself a training buddy that's a total ass.
Link Posted: 9/30/2015 9:38:44 AM EDT
[#13]
There are several really good buys in 9 mm "training ammo" right now. Palmetto has some Magtech for about $10 a box. Wideners is selling IMI for about $11 a box and SG ammo has Privi for $10 a box...Saw where someone had Speer Lawman 124 for $10 a box. All of those are top quality options that will run most any pistol without issue.

Hint---BUY AMMO NOW!

Don't be the booger eater that shows up here whining on January 20th, 2017 when Hillary takes the throne saying-- "Gee guys, I can't finds no ammos, oh the noes"!!!!!!
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