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You missed the whole AA drama on Saiga-12, but I watched it unfold everyday. AA is probably the shittiest bunch of losers I've ever heard of (except maybe Diamond Dave of Elite, possibly Lancaster as well)...their conduct on that forum was atrocious. They got caught lying, using shill accounts to bash Mike Davidson, start flame wars and all the while denied the blatantly obvious fact that their drum would simply not work on most Saiga's without the S12 being 'reliabilitied' to match their drum. Plenty of people reported that after getting their S12's tuned for the Wraithmaker that they could no longer use stick mags let alone the MD20. It was one of the worst internet fiasco's I think I've ever seen.

IMO AA is a piss poor organization run by people that act like spoiled teenagers at best, at worst they are outright thieves and liars. FWIW I don't use either product and never had any interest in either one but after watching that whole thing play out there is no way in hell I'd buy anything from AA.




Z

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Voted pie because I've never used a drum. I have a bunch of saiga 8rd mags but I would like to pick up a drum or two for giggles.

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They are big. I wish MD would come out with a 20 round drum that was designed similar to the Chinese 7.62 drums. Spiral inside. It would probably be a huge pain in the @$$ to make it reliable and tough. I can't wait until the doublestack mags come out....

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Well I only have the MD drums. My new one fit first time. I had to file a little on the first one. I haven't shot the second one yet and will most likely wait till Sept to do so. My Guard unit is planning a shotgun/ skeet shoot and I hope to try it then. As far as I know I'll be the only one with a Saiga-12

I have shot the first one and it works good with Estate heavy game loads and the stock plug. Walmart cheapies not so good. Loading them is a bit of a pain to Me. In all reality I think a pump shot gun may be better in SHTF though because even with less capacity when the guy with a drum runs out, it will take longer to reload a drum than it will to stuff a tube. I would like to see the Russian 8 rounders sold here for a more reasonable price. But if Mark or Pro Mag can do some 12 rd double stacks that could be interesting. They should be able to take 3" too, and have metal catches front and rear. I know I'm dreaming.

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Lot of familiar names in here, Hello to all the saiga guys in this thread.

I voted MD for a few obvious reasons 1 being AA being shady and the open design = FAIL.

I own only 1 drum and its a MD-20 and its been pretty reliable although my round count through it is only around 300 give or take a few.

I do however plan to purchase both a Promag 12 and 20 as well.

I'm also waiting patiently for the Chaos Drum.

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Cameron has under development the 10 round mini drum as well as the 8 round metal mags.
http://www.chaosus.com/cgi/commerce.cgi?display=user3

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Cameron has under development the 10 round mini drum as well as the 8 round metal mags.
http://www.chaosus.com/cgi/commerce.cgi?display=user3

I can't believe you took your sob story over there. Dude... Suck it up and grow a set, quit being such a damn crybaby woe is me... Anyways...

As far as the broke spring story... If the spring really broke it would not be a one time occurrence. Unless they heat treated their springs one at a time... It would be a whole damn batch of springs, likely in the many, many 1000's. But I'm not sure it broke. Did anyone take it apart? I am betting it came loose and unwound (weather it broke or unwound neither has happened with the MD-20). I don't think this is isolated either. While at Will's birthday bash Mississippi Auto Arms said they had I think it was 2 come back with low to no spring tension. He also said he had someone drop one and break it. And that he had some with the teeth breaking off the gears and also complaining that the load assist was hard to use, lol... Not sure on full details Also while there Lone Star Arms had a 20rd Promag and the bottom right cover clip was cracking from one side up through the cover and back down to the other side of the clip. They said it had not been dropped and only fired, ask Mike... Not a single one of these things has ever happened with an MD-20. And I promise you we have shipped THOUSANDS more MD-20s, and with way more use on them, than Promag has shipped theirs... We have been shipping since 09-2008. Promag's have been shipping since around late February, around 5 months. And only 4 months at the time I heard and saw the above.

The only time we have ever had an MD-20 returned for replacement was because the owner removed to much material while fitting. Around 30 drums total out of over 1xxxx drums shipped. But we actually just sonic weld some material back to be refitted. Only on 2 occasions did we have to replace due a super severe misfitting causing a complete bust through of the rear mag catch. These are customer mistakes but we still have always helped out. (Does that sound good Cobra?) And since the promags have to be fitted as well trust they will be misfitted by people... I wonder how they will handle customer mistakes? Now lets assume the issue of the Promag spring is that they are actually breaking like the over hardened AGP mag springs that went out awhile back... We had some feedlips on the second run of MD-20 drums that was over hardened. We shipped around 500 drums (a couple days worth of shipping) from the second run before finding out. They could easily break. We immediately stopped shipping. And annealed (softened), reheat treated, and re black oxided the feedlips. Took about a week. We shipped replacement feedlips, at great cost to MD Arms, to ALL that received the over hardened ones. NO ONE had to contact us for replacement, we contacted them. From what I heard on the AGPs is they only took care of the people that contacted them. And if that's true then I'm sure most of those hard springs are still in circulation... (Again, does that sound good Cobra?)

(Cobra doesn't want to base the spring problem on one or two occurrences but he is all about basing one good warranty service as a complete turn around for the company... Even though they have had years and years of bad stories on many, many products including their saiga-12 10rd sticks, circulating all over the internet and every gunshow... That is just dumb. Like I said... Cobra has a chip on his shoulder for me and doesn't have one problem misleading all you to the inferior product to satisfy his own agenda.)

I have very little range time with a promag drum, 80rds of high brass. I wanted to see if it had the same tendencies from some guns to out cycle high brass. It did and was much worse in those guns... And the new gas plug didn't 100% solve it. For one the spring tension in the Promag is not as much as the MD-20, both at the same wraps. Also their gear is super heavy and also has more surface area contacting. They also lock up with a lot of slop in most guns I have tried. The material is not as stiff as ours (this is likely while Lone Star's cover broke, while firing the mag is flexing too much). And if people are dropping and breaking the promags they are no where near as tough and strong as ours. You can throw ours 15 to 20 feet in the air to land on asphalt without it breaking, WHILE LOADED!!! On FIRST impressions I thought the Promag drum seemed to be better plastic than their other items. But stiff can mean brittle... I am not sure what Promag is using as a stiffener but if people are dropping them and breaking them it isn't what we are using. I would have to guess they may be using talc powder as a stiffener (super cheap and not good for this application). I think it's about time for me to do some real world drop testing of the Promag drum to see what the story is. You can drop the loaded MD-20 on concrete over and over and over hitting the same place on the drum. I finally stopped well over 30 times loaded and it was fine and completely functional! Once I destroy a few promags I can do some tests on the material scarps to better see what it is.

What I can say even without torture testing, use and longevity testing, and material testing of the promag drums is that the MD-20 is WAY better. The MD-20 have a much better fit in the gun, the MD-20 components lock together better and tighter, the MD-20 has better stiffness, the MD-20 has stronger spring tension, the MD-20 is 6 ounces lighter, the MD-20 has less friction and runs smoother, the MD-20 has they same lifetime warranty (even though you likely won't need ours), the MD-20 has a 30 day money back guarantee (Promag doesn't that I'm aware of), the MD-20 uses thicker, heat treat, black oxided, spring steel (expensive, quality steel) inserts (the Promag has thinner, un-heat treated, un-black oxided cold roll steel inserts which is soft and cheap steel), our company has a much better reliability, longevity history and truer quality commitment to our products and customers. MD Arms was dedicated to the saiga-12 platform and designed the MD-20 out of love and compassion for that platform! I could go on, but that should be enough for now...

I also want to say that you all might want to wait on buying any promag drums and maybe even any MD-20s for about the next 2 to 4 weeks. All I'm going to say is things are about to change again for the better of the saiga-12 market and it's customers.

I wonder what that cryptic last line refers to???

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Double Stack Magazines

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C Products are developing mags for it as well.  metal ones



I am going to wait on the drums.



I am going to stock up on the metal mags