I currently run either Wolf or Tula 7.62x39 through my AK whenever I'm at the range for plinking, classes or training. It's readily available at local gun shops and it's cheap. However I question whether this is the best ammunition to use if I ever have to use my AK in self defense or against a horde of zombies. Are there better options than Wolf and Tula or am I simply overthinking this?

Hornady ZombieMax is getting good reviews for expansion. The little polymer tip really
makes the bullet mushroom.  Its more expensive though...

I've heard good things about the Zombie/VMax and expansion. However I'd want to know how well it actually penetrated before I bet my life on it. Anyone know how well it penetrates in 7.62x39?

Hell if you penetration, find some 80's chicom copperwashed steel core.
Really, what are you trying to penetrate? People? People with body armor?
Zombies? Car doors?  Zombie deer with body armor?

Go to youtube and search for 7.62x39 zomebiemax.  Lots of ballistic gel tests
to be had.

Yugo M67

I have 2 sealed crates just for this purpose.War proven ammo.

Now how hard is it to find the M67? Some people I've talked to say it's dried up.

Golden Tiger.

Not hard to find. Not cheap, but definitely not hard to find.

Here or via private seller.

Corrosive?

+1

I hear good things about the Golden Tiger ammo. Haven't seen a lot of it in stock lately, or at least not on sgammo.

Golden Tiger's the best commercial steel ammo I've found based on cost vs. accuracy and it's sealed the best for long term storage. But SGAmmo is the only online seller that carries it and they've already said in the Industry section that they're only expecting one more shipment of ammo for the test of the year and it's all GT 5.45x39. So you'll probably be lucky to see any 7.62 GT for a while. Red Army Standard is pretty good, close to GT in terms of accuracy/quality but last I saw GT available the RAS was about 1.5 cents more/round. But RAS is easy to find locally.

I've heard good things on the Red Army Standard on various forums. AK Operators Union and MrGunsnGear also have reviews and some gel tests of it on their respective YouTube channels. If I remember correctly the Red Army Standard Elite tested a bit better than the regular RAS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-tzEvw8hvc

The Zombie Max seems to perform pretty well, at least in this test. The Tula HP seems to yaw more than the Zombie though.

Yep.

1- Yugo M67
2- Golden Tiger
3- Everything else

No such thing of your target is hiding behind a cinder block wall!
Here is another vote for M67.

Non corrosive = Golden Tiger
Corrosive = M-67

this



 

Just grabbed 1120 rounds of Yugo M67 on strippers for .24 cents per round shipped

This

I'll go against the grain and break it out by stash percentages.

50% Golden Tiger
40% Hornady SST or PPU
10% Federal Fusion

I like Golden Tiger.

Got a case or two of it, not sure.

I've zero'd with it and whenever I go shooting/plinking I use TULA from WalMart or whatever I bought several years ago that isn't sealed around the primer and bullet like GT.

Golden Tiger (and since you asked about stockpiling: Golden Tiger is primer and bullet sealed, as well as laquer coated)

m67

or

whatever has free shipping

Ain't that right?

Is the Hornady SST the same thing as the ZOMBIE stuff (except with a red versus green tip)?  
In the mid-2000s, I prefered SilverBear SP with lacquer and never had a problem....but I've been out of x39 for 6 years and a lot has changed (especially prices).

I have some 100rds of PDX1 for HD, as well as 100rds of Hornady SST, but want to get 420-500rds of something cheaper.

Why is GT better than Red Army Standard?  (I like that the latter can be had in a few versions, including brass.)   Is it due to the seal and crimp?
Did anyone ever figure out if polymer wasn't as good as lacquer or vice versa--this was a debate happening in 2008/2009 if I remember correctly.

Others who've looked into this say "yes." I've never looked into it.



There have been reports of polymer cases rusting quite badly when exposed to moisture. The consensus seems to be that lacquer is still superior at inhibiting corrosion.

The AK article here mentioned most the Russian soft points work pretty well for the price.  Any favorites?  I've mostly shot Wolf, reliable but not terribly impressed with accuracy.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_4_54/157496_AK_ammunition_article.html

My 1120 rounds of Yugo M67 from SG is shipping tomorrow.

Never thought they would come through and honor the .23 per round shipped but they did

1120 rounds of goodness on its way

I've read that the Golden Tiger has a projectile similar to the M67 that tumbles much more readily than normal FMJ. Do any of the other cheap bulk pack 7.62x39 rounds offer any advantage in terminal ballistics? Are the SP's any good, or reliable expanders?

The Golden Tiger projectile has a fairly significant boat-tail while the M67 projectile is a more traditional flat base design.

1DevilDog answers everything in this archived thread: http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=4&f=54&t=141861

As for Golden Tiger's boat-tail design....in theory, the BT will help at longer distances but the most accurate 7.62x39 projectiles use the flat base M67 design.

Lapua 123gr FMJ

Interesting, thanks! So any of the current cheap bulk FMJ should be using an M67 type projectile if I'm reading that thread correctly?

I like the brass yugo.

Yeah, for the most part. There is nothing really special about the M67 design.

If you want the best chance of superior terminal performance, buy the types with purpose built projectiles (Fusion, SST, etc.)

In the end, there is no free lunch or guarantee.....just higher or lower probability.

Of course, all a balancing act. I was just hoping the balance might be 29c/rnd instead of 21c/rnd not a buck fifty/rnd.

That "Old stock/Lot#A445" that SGAmmo was selling around 6 months ago is good stuff.  

Gel test

I bought 2.5 cases of this stuff back when it was 21cpr to use for blasting ammo but I'll probably hang onto it and shoot something else for blasting ammo now that I saw how good it does in gel.

I have 2 cases of Golden Tiger that was my original "stash for a rainy day" ammo.  

Wow!  That's certainly not the same Wolf HP ammo I shot 15-20 years ago.  The hole was definitely smaller, and also didn't seem to expand worth a darn.  It also would hang up feeding in my MAKs, so I never bought it again and stuck with FMJ.



I grabbed a screenshot from your video.  All newer Wolf HP like this?  If so, I'll have to jump on a few cases.

HOLY S#!@!!! I missed a lot since I posted this!

I'm a newbie so I have a lot to learn it seems.

Don't get too caught up in it. It's fine to discuss options, discuss the finer points of ammo, or buy "the best" when it's available, but with 7.62x39, even cheap commercial FMJ will put a hurtin' on someone at 100yds. Any decent commercial ammo is good to stockpile as long as you store it properly. Lacquer coating, sealant, and spam cans are just the cherry on top.

I will keep that in kind. I just need some for a start ha ha!

If you are in Virginia I have Golden Tiger listed in the EE at a great price.

Look above....thread over!,  super good stuff!!!

I've not done a scientific sampling across all brands of ammo, but every single x39 FMJ I have ever pulled from a case or recovered out on a range was a boat-tail.  The only non-boat-tail loads that I know of are the Yugo m67 and presumably the Red Army Standard Elite which seems to be trying to duplicate the M67, at least as far as the cheap bulk ammo goes.  I'm betting that nearly all of the cheap bulk ammo uses a boat-tail design because 1) that was mil-spec for nearly all x39 AK producers, 2) I doubt boat-tails cost much more to manufacture in today's manufacturing reality and 3) boat-tails are just generally presumed to be more accurate than flat-based bullets.

I think that's why the M67 got a name, so to speak, amongst AK shooters. I think it was Fackler(?) that noted that the M67 had a terminal performance edge over "normal" AK rounds due to its unique use of a flat-based bullet which was inherently less stable than a boat tail design and therefore would yaw sooner when transitioning mediums (entering a body, for example).  So because the M67 was different than other AK loads, but in a good way (its terminal performance), it has taken on this somewhat elite/legendary status.

As far as flat-based bullets being more accurate, I've never heard that before. Aren't nearly all match loads using boat -tail designs? Where you see flat based bullets highlighted in industry advertising are predominantly in hunting loads where the bullet construction design is being touted for its terminal performance, not its accuracy.

The benefits of the boat-tail design that allow it to retain velocity down range aren't going to detract from its accuracy. They should aid in accuracy because they minimize air resistance and therefore reduce that as an accuracy robbing variable from shot to shot.

Variance in your loading components (such as variations in case capacity, powder charges, bullet weights, etc.) are what is going to kill your accuracy.  And those quality control issues are probably affecting the accuracy of the ammo out in the market much more than actual bullet or component design.  The key to accuracy is consistency. The cheap ammo lacks that compared to more expensive ammo.

To put it another way, if I load up a bunch of ammo using flat based projectiles, but I am very particular about the primers, cases, bullets and powder being as near identical from round to round as I can get them, I can absolutely squeeze more accuracy out of that load than I can if I am using a boat-tail projectile but am not so particular about the various components being identical from round to round. But if both loads are built up being equally particular about the consistency from round to round, the boat-tail load should prove to be more accurate because of the boat-tails' performance in the air once it leaves the barrel.

If the Yugo is more accurate than other mil-surp or cheap bulk ammo, I suspect that it is due to the quality control or lower instances of variance in the components and manufacturing process rather than in the design of the projectile.

But I am certainly no expert. I'm just passing on what I have been told from other arm-chair know-it-alls.  

Would you consider these boat-tail?

Winchester White Box


Lapua


Tulammo


Hornady


PPU

I like any ammo with the Sapsan 8M3 124 grain hollow point.  Ulyanovsk plant makes it.  Fist it was imported under their name in white and black, white and light blue, and green boxes.  Then Wolf Military classic was using it for awhile.  2014 production Tulammo (124 grain HP Only) is using it.  Make sure it says Ulyanovsk on the box.  The bullet is a little more rounded in the ogive that other 122s and 124 HPs, and it has pre-fail cuts in the HP cavity.

Good youtube video on 8M3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrS-kya8xVA

Photos:

Personally, I have a stash of commercial Golden Tiger, surplus Yugo M67 and surplus South African in 7.62x39 that I am saving for the Zombie Apocalypse.

For 5.45x39 I keep a mix of Russian and Bulgarian 7n6. This is a wicked little round against soft tissue.

Obviously we are in a different world compared to just last October. Golden Tiger is out of stock, along with M67. There's nothing wrong with Wolf, but now we have the 'Red Army' ammo which has a lot going for it. Plus it is available in brass case and copper jacket if you're willing to pay for it. You also might consider the Tula 154gr heavy soft point for defense use around the home. Another one would be PRVI (PPU) 123gr round-nose soft point. Along with the Hornady steel-case ballistic-tipped ammo, these offer quite a selection of defense ammo for the AK and Wolf is available and inexpensive for blasting ammo.

I only use the projectile and primer sealed lacquer coated 7.62x39 ammo for both long term storage and shooting.

The brands I use...

1) Brown Bear 123 grain
2) Golden Tiger 124 grain
3) Red Army 123 grain manufactured in Romania, not Ukraine, however, I believe the lacquer coated Red Army Romanian ammo is no longer available, I bought several cases and put it in my long term storage pile when SGAmmo had it, it was running about the same price as GT. I had a feeling it wasn't going to available after they sold out of it. A couple of sites still have some but they are selling it for more than you can buy brass cased ammo for now.