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Good review. I totally expected the results to be the opposite. This was an eye opener for sure.
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As you see I am in FL and had the same results as you did. The vortex was not bright enough for sunny day use and the FOV on the magnifier is narrow. Too many buttons/options on it in case my wife had to pick it up and use it, liked the simplicity of the PA. I thought the Vortex was made as well as the PA and it comes w/ a lifetime warrenty but the brightness was a deal breaker for me. The 2 reticles, brightness button and NV button slowed my wife down too much on getting on target from scratch, it was not a problem for me at all but I try to keep everything wife friendly because under stress it's going to be 10x. Some people will like the options and if you don't live in a bright, sunny climate the Vortex will be fine. Thanks for the review 87.
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87GN,
i always love reading your posts of your own personal reviews of products. i actually bought the primary arms while i was home on leave. when i first saw your topic here, i thought, oh crap, he is gonna find something wrong and im gonna regret having bought it, (i have had only had it at the range one day) but after reading this, i feel very confident in my purchase. thank you for doin this little review. very informative for those of us on a tighter budget. i look forward to more reviews. maybe an MI handguard related one? |
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Good review. I started out with a strikefire on my .22 upper, but switched it to my .223 upper for a carbine class. I liked it so much I decided to keep it there. I just bought a primary arms m3 to go on the .22 upper. I'm very impressed with it for the money. If I could have checked out both in person I would have gone with the primary arms to begin with. I'm still very happy with the vortex strikefire though. Its bright enough for summer day in Ohio. It made it through a rainy two day class. Its earned my trust for now, but I can't wait to try out the m3 clone. Out of curiosity, did you replace the battery in the vortex sight? I changed the factory battery and it seemed to be a little brighter.
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Thanks for the write up
I have been looking at these two sights and flip flopping on them. As a single dad with a son just starting high school, this write made up my mind for me I just ordered the PA with highrise mount to hold me over until my next build, that will not be a "budget AR" even though my first from PK firearms has been flawless for 400+ rounds will give a update when it gets here |
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Good review. I started out with a strikefire on my .22 upper, but switched it to my .223 upper for a carbine class. I liked it so much I decided to keep it there. I just bought a primary arms m3 to go on the .22 upper. I'm very impressed with it for the money. If I could have checked out both in person I would have gone with the primary arms to begin with. I'm still very happy with the vortex strikefire though. Its bright enough for summer day in Ohio. It made it through a rainy two day class. Its earned my trust for now, but I can't wait to try out the m3 clone. Out of curiosity, did you replace the battery in the vortex sight? I changed the factory battery and it seemed to be a little brighter. I didn't mention that, but I did replace the battery - wanted to cover all the bases... Thanks all for the compliments - I will have the promised photos soon - between my masters' program and SCUBA classes I am pretty busy. |
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Thanks for the write up. Makes me a little more confident about the PA I ordered 2 days ago.
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Thanks for the writeup. I've been thinking about ordering one of these for a .22 build.
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thanks for the review . I have a strike fire on my spare carbine and never had a problem with the brightness or malfunctions . Its nice having options and Im glad we have primary arms and strikefire as vendors on this site . since I doubt I will have to go hand to hand with a squirrel or face a coyotoe human wave attack these kind of sights are cool with me , but if I was going into combat or a cop I think I would drop alittle more change on a time proven optic.
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Got my PA M3 clone today. I ordered it at about 1:10am on Wed. night/Thurs. Morning. That is some damn good customer service and fast shipping!!!!!!!! The only thing I do not like is it did not come with any form of instructions. Not a big deal for me but I know a few people that would have been confused when it came time to sight it in or change the batteries.
I hope to hit the range tomorrow to sight it in. |
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Got my PA M3 clone today. I ordered it at about 1:10am on Wed. night/Thurs. Morning. That is some damn good customer service and fast shipping!!!!!!!! The only thing I do not like is it did not come with any form of instructions. Not a big deal for me but I know a few people that would have been confused when it came time to sight it in or change the batteries. I hope to hit the range tomorrow to sight it in. Well, I think it's the same as an Aimpoint. I didn't have any issues. My next plan is to mount the optic to a Saiga 308. |
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I have the M3 multi reticle. Pretty happy with it. Out of 7 brightness settings , I've only had it to 5. And that was on a very bright day. I wonder if the difference in batteries might be making a difference.
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I ordered the PA M3 Clone this weekend, I had a Tasco Propoint but with my vision the dot looked like a 'bunch of grapes' unless I was cowitnessing thru the small aperature on my buis. I look forward to getting this one and seeing if the dot is sharp or if I continue to see grapes thru the optic
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I ordered the PA M3 Clone this weekend, I had a Tasco Propoint but with my vision the dot looked like a 'bunch of grapes' unless I was cowitnessing thru the small aperature on my buis. I look forward to getting this one and seeing if the dot is sharp or if I continue to see grapes thru the optic That's a common problem for red-dot sights without perfect vision. Wearing corrective glasses should help. My M3 clone still held zero after 600 rounds. I just got the new ACOG clone from Primary and should be here by Wed. |
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87GN, i always love reading your posts of your own personal reviews of products. i actually bought the primary arms while i was home on leave. when i first saw your topic here, i thought, oh crap, he is gonna find something wrong and im gonna regret having bought it, (i have had only had it at the range one day) but after reading this, i feel very confident in my purchase. thank you for doin this little review. very informative for those of us on a tighter budget. i look forward to more reviews. maybe an MI handguard related one? Thank you for the compliments. The problem with doing product reviews is as follows - 1. If you buy it, and like it, you don't want to sell it. But sometimes you buy it from the financial standpoint of needing to sell it, planning to sell it...it doesn't always work out that way. 2. If you buy it, and don't like it, when you try to sell it, nobody wants to buy it, because they figure it's horrible, when in reality it isn't all that bad and would serve the needs of a lot of people quite well.. 3. If it's given to you, you won't sell it of course, but some folks see that as a sign of bias. |
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My critiquing of the M3 copy...
Got my M3 tonight, thought I had something wrong but I find you can't have the adjustment caps at a perfect 12:00 & 9/3:00 positions like a scope with the provided Cantilever mount. Not enough clearance for the battery cap. Not a down gripe, still is functional and once I sight it in I'm not about to make elevation corrections anyway, I'll just lock it in for 50yd zero and keep it that way. I find my vision problem follows this Optic too, when the light is turned up I see a cluster of lights. But when viewed thru the irons (Co-witnessing) with the small objective it's a perfectly round dot. I don't know why I thought this optic was powered by a AA battery ?!? Where did I think that? not complaining, just my observations. |
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I don't know why I thought this optic was powered by a AA battery ?!? Where did I think that? The M4 style model from PA is AA powered. |
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My critiquing of the M3 copy... Got my M3 tonight, thought I had something wrong but I find you can't have the adjustment caps at a perfect 12:00 & 9/3:00 positions like a scope with the provided Cantilever mount. Not enough clearance for the battery cap. Not a down gripe, still is functional and once I sight it in I'm not about to make elevation corrections anyway, I'll just lock it in for 50yd zero and keep it that way. I find my vision problem follows this Optic too, when the light is turned up I see a cluster of lights. But when viewed thru the irons (Co-witnessing) with the small objective it's a perfectly round dot. I don't know why I thought this optic was powered by a AA battery ?!? Where did I think that? not complaining, just my observations. There is a problem with that mount, a replacement is going out tomorrow. We bought a small batch of mounts from a different supplier to tide us over. Won't do that again. Our own mounts are back in stock so this issue will not repeat itself. 99.9999999% of the time if you stop looking at the dot and focus on the target the multiple dots will go away. You might have to look away and go back to it a few times until you get the hang of it. In very rare cases a astigmatism or just the need for glasses is the culprit. |
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My critiquing of the M3 copy... Got my M3 tonight, thought I had something wrong but I find you can't have the adjustment caps at a perfect 12:00 & 9/3:00 positions like a scope with the provided Cantilever mount. Not enough clearance for the battery cap. Not a down gripe, still is functional and once I sight it in I'm not about to make elevation corrections anyway, I'll just lock it in for 50yd zero and keep it that way. I find my vision problem follows this Optic too, when the light is turned up I see a cluster of lights. But when viewed thru the irons (Co-witnessing) with the small objective it's a perfectly round dot. I don't know why I thought this optic was powered by a AA battery ?!? Where did I think that? not complaining, just my observations. There is a problem with that mount, a replacement is going out tomorrow. We bought a small batch of mounts from a different supplier to tide us over. Won't do that again. Our own mounts are back in stock so this issue will not repeat itself. 99.9999999% of the time if you stop looking at the dot and focus on the target the multiple dots will go away. You might have to look away and go back to it a few times until you get the hang of it. In very rare cases a astigmatism or just the need for glasses is the culprit. Marsh, not to hijack 87's thread, but is there a way to find out if the cantilever purchased was one of the said mounts? i have only had the opportunity to use mine once while i was home on leave. i know that after about 500 rounds, the nut to tighten the base loosened up just a hair. ill buy the new mount if mine is one of the defective ones. thanks! |
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Nice write up, but save your money and buy an aimpoint, not a chinese scope made to look like an aimpoint. "Clone" ain't exactly the honest term, more like "kit car" Ferrari body with a dodge omni engine.
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Nice write up, but save your money and buy an aimpoint, not a chinese scope made to look like an aimpoint. "Clone" ain't exactly the honest term, more like "kit car" Ferrari body with a dodge omni engine. I do agree that for a go to gun , you should get a proven, high quality optic. But you don't need a Formula 1 car just to go to the store to buy a loaf of bread. Cheap sight do have their place if you accept and understand their shortcomings. I've had a Tasco Propoint for the past ten years that's been on everything from a 22 caliber rifle to a 12 gauge shotgun shooting slugs that's been dead nuts reliable every single time it's been called on to do it's job. |
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Marsh, not to hijack 87's thread, but is there a way to find out if the cantilever purchased was one of the said mounts? i have only had the opportunity to use mine once while i was home on leave. i know that after about 500 rounds, the nut to tighten the base loosened up just a hair. ill buy the new mount if mine is one of the defective ones. thanks! If it mounted atraight you are OK but emal me and let's be sure. |
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Nice write up, but save your money and buy an aimpoint, not a chinese scope made to look like an aimpoint. "Clone" ain't exactly the honest term, more like "kit car" Ferrari body with a dodge omni engine. I have posted many times that these are not anywhere near Aimpoint standards in brightness, battery life, etc. so OK Aimpoint style not clone. That said I have many LE and military that use this model on their personal training weapons. Why because that is all they can afford and this particular model gives them the same look and the controls are in the same place. Yes people do buy them because they look like a Aimpoint. Plenty of people even put a Aimpoint cover on them . I am proud that we offer a legal alternative to the Ebay counterfeits that dominated this market. Those products are crap and as we know many wind up being sold as the real deal. I am proud that is is a true weapons grade red that is well made and affordable. We are also very proud to stock products from most of the US accessories/optics manufactures. Tory, Bobro, Daniel Defense, Magpul, Ultimak, Tango Down, Burris, EOTech to name a few but the reality in the world today is if you want to make a low priced piece of electronics the factories are in China. Of course we sell Aimpoint as well but they are imported also. |
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I have noticed that Vortex is offering an ARD/Killflash for the Strikefire. Is it possible that they are using this to kill some of the environmental brightness to make the dot seem brighter?
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Nice write up, but save your money and buy an aimpoint, not a chinese scope made to look like an aimpoint. "Clone" ain't exactly the honest term, more like "kit car" Ferrari body with a dodge omni engine. Some of us just like shooting at paper targets (and soda cans and computer parts) instead of comparing brands with our buddies. If you want to spend the money go right ahead but don't try to convince people that are looking for inexpensive red dots to save up for something 4x-5-x more than they can afford. Though I'd like to know the number of people with Aimpoints/Acogs and Japaense or Korean cars's so I could convince them they should have saved up and gotten a 5 series BMW or Brabus Mercedes because they are higher quality. |
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Though I'd like to know the number of people with Aimpoints/Acogs and Japaense or Korean cars's so I could convince them they should have saved up and gotten a 5 series BMW or Brabus Mercedes because they are higher quality. It all depends on need, as you touched on. If you live in town and feel that a boringly reliable yet affordable Honda Civic will work for you as a mode of transportation, fine. Or if you live on a farm, a beat up Ford truck with an inline 6 might be a good choice. If you hit the track every weekend, you might want something designed for that. If you have one of the needs I outlined in my first post in this thread, the Vortex and PA optics will work well for you - especially for duplicating a duty rifle on the cheap. If you feel that you need an optic that can survive an IED blast, or have batteries that last 65 million years, you should not look at the Vortex or PA optics. I do not "compare brands with my buddies" for I know there are crucial differences between said optics and both manufacturers will tell you the same thing. And, frankly, there is NOTHING wrong with simply wanting the best optic your money can buy. Is it better to buy the quality part regardless of actual need or to buy the cheap part in spite of actual need? FWIW, I don't own a Japanese or Korean car. |
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I have a TA31RCOM4 ACOG and a real Aimpoint M2. I also have a Primary Arms M3 clone. They are mounted on the 3 rifles I shoot the most. Nothing wrong with saving money to get quality sights. All or these three rifles are also mounted with Troy BUIS. They cost $250 a set so it's not about being cheap but it's about getting the most for your money.
Oh, almost forgot...I got an ACOG and drives a MAZDA 6s. Yes, it's a Jap car built in Detroit and not a Fearri or BMW. But like I said, "Getting the most for your money." Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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great thread and thanks for your writeups. I'll be watching for me.......
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Nice write up, but save your money and buy an aimpoint, not a chinese scope made to look like an aimpoint. "Clone" ain't exactly the honest term, more like "kit car" Ferrari body with a dodge omni engine. I have posted many times that these are not anywhere near Aimpoint standards in brightness, battery life, etc. so OK Aimpoint style not clone. That said I have many LE and military that use this model on their personal training weapons. Why because that is all they can afford and this particular model gives them the same look and the controls are in the same place. Yes people do buy them because they look like a Aimpoint. Plenty of people even put a Aimpoint cover on them . I am proud that we offer a legal alternative to the Ebay counterfeits that dominated this market. Those products are crap and as we know many wind up being sold as the real deal. I am proud that is is a true weapons grade red that is well made and affordable. We are also very proud to stock products from most of the US accessories/optics manufactures. Tory, Bobro, Daniel Defense, Magpul, Ultimak, Tango Down, Burris, EOTech to name a few but the reality in the world today is if you want to make a low priced piece of electronics the factories are in China. Of course we sell Aimpoint as well but they are imported also. I'd have to echo what Marshall is saying in that we've also got plenty of military and LE guys running the StrikeFire who are very happy with it as an inexpensive alternative. Judging by what I've seen on this forum of Marshall and how he treats his customers I'd be willing to bet his Military and LE customers are just as happy. For guys that can afford an Aimpoint I certainly can't fault them for buying one, but there are plenty of military and LE folks out there who want a red dot and can't afford an Aimpoint. I'm glad to see that there are some people like Primary Arms and Vortex out there supplying these guys some gear, who try to give them an honest alternative for less money, and stand behind their products with great CS. Certainly better than them buying crap from some fly-by-night outfit on ebay that doesn't work and gives the customer no recourse for repair or returns. -Sam |
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Got my PA M3 clone today. I ordered it at about 1:10am on Wed. night/Thurs. Morning. That is some damn good customer service and fast shipping!!!!!!!! The only thing I do not like is it did not come with any form of instructions. Not a big deal for me but I know a few people that would have been confused when it came time to sight it in or change the batteries. I hope to hit the range tomorrow to sight it in. Well, I think it's the same as an Aimpoint. I didn't have any issues. My next plan is to mount the optic to a Saiga 308. Wondering if you ever got these tested out on the Saiga .308 |
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Got my PA M3 clone today. I ordered it at about 1:10am on Wed. night/Thurs. Morning. That is some damn good customer service and fast shipping!!!!!!!! The only thing I do not like is it did not come with any form of instructions. Not a big deal for me but I know a few people that would have been confused when it came time to sight it in or change the batteries. I hope to hit the range tomorrow to sight it in. Well, I think it's the same as an Aimpoint. I didn't have any issues. My next plan is to mount the optic to a Saiga 308. Wondering if you ever got these tested out on the Saiga .308 Waiting for the Ultimak rail to come out. Decided not to buy the Samson...yet. |
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