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Posted: 8/21/2015 5:18:17 PM EDT
[#1]
I've seen both on this forum, but I believe the wrench flats are supposed to be timed horizontally unlike the A2 birdcage.
I'd wait for a retro head to chime in before taking my word for it though. |
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Posted: 8/21/2015 6:55:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Torque to 15-20 ft lbs... the wrench flats go wherever they randomly end up.
With that said, when I install the moderators for a "permanent installation" (pinned/welded), I try to torque them so the wrench flats are either straight vertical or straight horizontal... just for cosmetics. John Thomas |
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Posted: 8/23/2015 10:14:41 AM EDT
[#3]
I always thought they were screwed on hand tight with a split washer under the grenade ring.
I can check with a guy that has an original XM177 with Colt moderator.... |
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Posted: 8/23/2015 10:41:11 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always thought they were screwed on hand tight with a split washer under the grenade ring. I can check with a guy that has an original XM177 with Colt moderator.... In practice, often a lock washer is installed. However, if you look at the original factory drawings, no lock washer is shown as part of the assembly. John Thomas |
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Posted: 8/23/2015 2:19:41 PM EDT
[#5]
The installation of the moderator with the grenade launcher ring should have a split lock washer under the grenade ring. Not peel washers, crush washers or spacers or anything else. The wrench flats position are a matter of preference, but it doesn't matter. -W
ETA: I see the manual you have shows it without a washer. It's funny, because I have built a few of these uppers and had the moderators pinned and welded with the grenade rings and the washers. The shop that did it is a big popular shop and I wonder why they didn't catch it. Thanks for the update. No problem. -W |
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Posted: 8/23/2015 4:35:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
The installation of the moderator with the grenade launcher ring should have a split lock washer under the grenade ring. Not peel washers, crush washers or spacers or anything else. The wrench flats position are a matter of preference, but it doesn't matter. -W I'm not the brightest bulb in the candelabra but I think I remember reading a long spirited debate on here about that very topic and someone smart who was in a position to know said no lock washer with the grenade ring. Someone else had a diagram from an early FM with an exploded view that showed no lock washer. Someone smart remember that thread? Anyone? Beuller? To quote Winnie the Pooh "I often times don't know what I'm talking about." |
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Posted: 8/23/2015 5:11:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not the brightest bulb in the candelabra but I think I remember reading a long spirited debate on here about that very topic and someone smart who was in a position to know said no lock washer with the grenade ring. Someone else had a diagram from an early FM with an exploded view that showed no lock washer. Someone smart remember that thread? Anyone? Beuller? To quote Winnie the Pooh "I often times don't know what I'm talking about." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The installation of the moderator with the grenade launcher ring should have a split lock washer under the grenade ring. Not peel washers, crush washers or spacers or anything else. The wrench flats position are a matter of preference, but it doesn't matter. -W I'm not the brightest bulb in the candelabra but I think I remember reading a long spirited debate on here about that very topic and someone smart who was in a position to know said no lock washer with the grenade ring. Someone else had a diagram from an early FM with an exploded view that showed no lock washer. Someone smart remember that thread? Anyone? Beuller? To quote Winnie the Pooh "I often times don't know what I'm talking about." B, you are correct on this recollection. 
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=481642 ^^Scroll down to the pics from 45Bravo http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/585446_FINISHED__Reproduction_XM177E2_manual_.html ^^The XM177E2 manual from 57Octane ETA: the manual also had another name for the "grenade ring" but damned if I can remember it 
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Posted: 8/23/2015 6:53:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
B, you are correct on this recollection.
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=481642 ^^Scroll down to the pics from 45Bravo http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/585446_FINISHED__Reproduction_XM177E2_manual_.html ^^The XM177E2 manual from 57Octane ETA: the manual also had another name for the "grenade ring" but damned if I can remember it Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The installation of the moderator with the grenade launcher ring should have a split lock washer under the grenade ring. Not peel washers, crush washers or spacers or anything else. The wrench flats position are a matter of preference, but it doesn't matter. -W I'm not the brightest bulb in the candelabra but I think I remember reading a long spirited debate on here about that very topic and someone smart who was in a position to know said no lock washer with the grenade ring. Someone else had a diagram from an early FM with an exploded view that showed no lock washer. Someone smart remember that thread? Anyone? Beuller? To quote Winnie the Pooh "I often times don't know what I'm talking about." B, you are correct on this recollection.
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=481642 ^^Scroll down to the pics from 45Bravo http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_123/585446_FINISHED__Reproduction_XM177E2_manual_.html ^^The XM177E2 manual from 57Octane ETA: the manual also had another name for the "grenade ring" but damned if I can remember it In the manual I'm looking at: PRELIMINARY OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE MANUAL, the Grenade Ring is called: WASHER, SUPPRESSOR. Figure No. 1 Item No. 13. This information was taken from POMM 9-1005-294-14/1. OPERATION, MAINTENANCE, REPAIR AND REPLACEMEMENT PARTS SUBMACHINEGUN GUN, 5.56-MM, XM177E2. JULY 1967 And in the picture shown it's a little bit larger than the standard split washer. Definitely the Grenade Ring. No split washer shown or mentioned. To add havoc: The lower receiver shown is a partial fence. |
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Posted: 8/23/2015 7:09:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Even a blind pig finds an acorn (of truth) every now and again! 
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Posted: 8/24/2015 8:34:39 AM EDT
[#10]
If I had to do it over again I would have asked to ensure that mine was installed straight before it was pin welded. If someone is cutting the barrel and threading it should NOT be a problem to get it to line up, turn the tap a little more if needed. Bugs the crap out of me that the flats no where close to being straight.
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Posted: 8/25/2015 12:50:28 AM EDT
[#11]
Worked it out, they will be timed going vertical from 6 to 12. Super stoked I should have it back by the beginning of next week. Luckily the gentleman I talk to at the LGS is a retro enthusiast, so between him and me, the gunsmith should have no issues getting what I want done. A shame I had to use the 653 build to make it happen, but ohh well. That daniel defense barrel I have should do well at 12.8 inch of length before moderator
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Posted: 8/25/2015 6:32:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Here we go again, THERE IS NO SPLIT RING LOCK WASHER INSTALLED FROM THE FACTORY on an XM177E2.
As said above, the "grenade ring" as WE call it is referred to in the manuals as "washer, suppressor" and has a Colt part number XM7128. Federal stock number 1005-087-9001 The standard split ring washer used on all other versions is Colt part number 62126. I can't at this time get to my sealed pack of 10 split ring lock washers to type out the federal stock number for those, but trust me, IT IS NOT THE SAME as the "washer,suppressor". Torque the moderator to 15-20 Lbs as jt mentioned above and be done. |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 8:32:42 PM EDT
[#13]
XM177E2 FSN 1005-087-9001 WASHER,SUPPRESSOR Part No XM7128
XM16E1 FSN 1005-992-7280 WASHER, LOCK, FLASH SUPPRESSOR Part No 62126  
 
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Posted: 8/25/2015 9:08:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Thanks Private Snafu.
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Posted: 8/25/2015 9:08:55 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In the manual I'm looking at: PRELIMINARY OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE MANUAL, the Grenade Ring is called: WASHER, SUPPRESSOR. Figure No. 1 Item No. 13. This information was taken from POMM 9-1005-294-14/1. OPERATION, MAINTENANCE, REPAIR AND REPLACEMEMENT PARTS SUBMACHINEGUN GUN, 5.56-MM, XM177E2. JULY 1967 And in the picture shown it's a little bit larger than the standard split washer. Definitely the Grenade Ring. No split washer shown or mentioned. To add havoc: The lower receiver shown is a partial fence. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Snip Snip Snip ETA: the manual also had another name for the "grenade ring" but damned if I can remember it In the manual I'm looking at: PRELIMINARY OPERATION AND MAINTENANCE MANUAL, the Grenade Ring is called: WASHER, SUPPRESSOR. Figure No. 1 Item No. 13. This information was taken from POMM 9-1005-294-14/1. OPERATION, MAINTENANCE, REPAIR AND REPLACEMEMENT PARTS SUBMACHINEGUN GUN, 5.56-MM, XM177E2. JULY 1967 And in the picture shown it's a little bit larger than the standard split washer. Definitely the Grenade Ring. No split washer shown or mentioned. To add havoc: The lower receiver shown is a partial fence. suppressor washer, so simple yet so hard to remember 
There are pics of Colt's prototype XM177E2's with partial fence lowers, I still believe these were E1 Commando lowers used to evaluate the new longer barrels rather than lowers roll marked as XM177E2's. |
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Posted: 8/25/2015 10:07:22 PM EDT
[#16]
If I install them for a "pin & weld I run the flats vertical. I think it looks better and I get a longer pin. Turning the tap more won't help because they but up against the shoulder.
To get moderators ( or flash hiders for that matter) I chuck them in a lathe and remove the correct amount to let them thread on more. Divide 1" by 28 (thds/in) and multiply that by the fractional amount of rotation you need. Remove that and you're good to go. Yes. it's a PITA, yes I'm anal. 
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Posted: 8/25/2015 10:55:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I install them for a "pin & weld I run the flats vertical. I think it looks better and I get a longer pin. Turning the tap more won't help because they but up against the shoulder. To get moderators ( or flash hiders for that matter) I chuck them in a lathe and remove the correct amount to let them thread on more. Divide 1" by 28 (thds/in) and multiply that by the fractional amount of rotation you need. Remove that and you're good to go. Yes. it's a PITA, yes I'm anal. there you go bringing math and logic into the discussion
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Posted: 8/25/2015 11:28:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
there you go bringing math and logic into the discussion Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If I install them for a "pin & weld I run the flats vertical. I think it looks better and I get a longer pin. Turning the tap more won't help because they but up against the shoulder. To get moderators ( or flash hiders for that matter) I chuck them in a lathe and remove the correct amount to let them thread on more. Divide 1" by 28 (thds/in) and multiply that by the fractional amount of rotation you need. Remove that and you're good to go. Yes. it's a PITA, yes I'm anal. there you go bringing math and logic into the discussion Jerrell, you the man!
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Posted: 8/26/2015 7:08:39 PM EDT
[#19]
HEY! In my defense; I try to never send out anything that I wouldn't want to receive.
I realize the originals were not timed. No need to; "does it go bang? Good!" But we are building art, functional sculpture! !
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Posted: 8/26/2015 7:47:55 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
HEY! In my defense; I try to never send out anything that I wouldn't want to receive. I realize the originals were not timed. No need to; "does it go bang? Good!" But we are building art, functional sculpture! !And dealing with a bunch of anal retentive collectors!
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