I had Kurt over at KKF make me a barrel to fit an AR 15 from an AK barrel.  I mailed him all the parts and some loot and 9 weeks later I got back a barrel that was midlength with a pinned F marked FSB with an A2 FH.  He also opened up my bolt face and machined the extractor.  
This is what I have now.




I have been messing with mags, but await the 5.45 x 39 mags from Cproducts that will hold 30 rounds.  These are new mags with the deep line indention moved back to properly feed/space for the 5.45 round.
I have used HK, HK w/6.8 followers and USGI with 6.8 followers.  I can get btwn 17-26 rounds depending on the mag body.  I have not found any "standard" mag body that holds a set amount.  It seems to be a combination of body, follower and spring (surprise, right)
Most of the mags had no problems feeding and I only ran into problems on the last several rounds - After I forced as many rounds as possible in the mag, and let them sit for 2 days until I could shoot.  The only mag problems I ran into were failure to chamber, where the projectile and front of the case were "pinched" by the bolt.

When I first got the rifle, I had to put the whole thing together, as I bought some of the parts after mailing the barrel off to Kurt.  I found that I had to add feed ramps to my upper with a dremel.  No big deal.  After taking it to the range to function fire, I found that I was only able to shoot one round at a time, as the hammer spring did not have enough power to get a good primer strike.  I would have to rack the CH halfway and get a second good primer strike to fire.  Sometimes it took 3-4 strikes.  Function firing wore off any burrs that the build had and it fed and extracted and ejected just fine. (it was failing to extract or eject when I was just chambering rounds)  

So I ordered a Wolff extra power hammer spring for 4$.  I changed out springs and loaded up some mags for testing this weekend.  I found that with the increased hammer spring, I was able to cut my malfunctions from 100% to about 10%.  I still had occasional problems with primer strikes.  I was able to get a BZO on the rifle.  I was unable to get accuracy data though.  I switched to some older 5.45 wolf that I have (grey case, no case lacquer?)  I loaded a mag and the first round fired but failed to extract.  I had a stuck case and no cleaning rod.  That ended the days break in.  Thus far I had about 200 rnds down the pipe.

When I got home I removed the stuck case and tried manually feeding, chambering and extracting the wolf ammo.  It would rarely extract, and appeared to be slightly different in regards to diameter at the base.  I have not had a chance to measure the two rounds with calipers, but would not be surprised if the case lip was not the same.

My observations about a 5.45 upper have led me to believe that any new 5.45 uppers may not affect ammo availability or sales.  I received a working upper and had to modify the lower to work with combloc ammo.  5.45 rifles will be subject to different types of ammo and may or may not work with all types.  I used a mix of bulgy com bloc from two sources (same ammo though) and wolf 5.45.  I have not tried Russian yet and would like to trade some bulgy for some Russian to check on things.  
As a side note, all this ammo fires fine in my Sar II.  I just wanted a project gun that would be fun to get working and an AR in 5.45.  

I am anxiously awaiting the S&W uppers to see what the verdict is with them.  Although they are several months (?) late on putting the product to market, I dont look at that as an indicator either way of reliability.  I am interested to see what happens when people start putting rounds downrange.

It is not just the extra power spring you need, but to machine the firing pin the tiniest bit to allow further protrusion beyond the bolt face.

We've been getting near 100% ignition after that mod.

As to extraction, the mod to the extractor has to happen on several planes of the extractor: height above the bolt face, external diameter of the case, diameter of the internal case lip and top relief of the extractor.  

efxguy

The extractor is done on the correct plains, just having problems with wolf.  Who sells/works on the Firing pins?  Or could I do that myself.

I had a lot of Wolf that failed to extract often in my AK. It had the same improperly sized case as your reporting. I'd just chunk it.

Shot it in my AK with no problem, and want to keep the non corrosive 5.45 for my can.

Quoted: It is not just the extra power spring you need, but to machine the firing pin the tiniest bit to allow further protrusion beyond the bolt face. We've been getting near 100% ignition after that mod.

+1, my experience as well.
I removed some material from the shoulder of tip of the FP to get enough protrusion.

I read on the Build it Yourself forum about using a 6.8 extractor.  
I've also tried a regular unmodified 5.56 which has been working pretty good for me.

Here is mine in action:
www.livevideo.com/video/CF8638F6050D4502A1D3535EA3E51E16/5-45x39mm-upper.aspx

what methods and tools did you use?  A vice and rat tail file, or lathe, ect?
Thanks

Quoted: what methods and tools did you use?  A vice and rat tail file, or lathe, ect? Thanks

I'm impatient so I just used a portable Dremel at the range.  Just spinned the FP in one hand w/ the Dremel in the other.

hmmmm.  I have plenty of extra FP's....

MOS2111, I too am curious as to how the S&W uppers will run as I have one ordered.  If you can get yours to run near 100%, do you plan on acquiring any extra 5.45 bolts and extractors?  My intent is to use my 5.45 build as my high-round training gun.  I really hope to run Bulgy surplus through it, as I have a bunch of it.

Alexander Arms has spare bolts available NOW.  You have to call to get them.  Price is VERY reasonable.  I bought 4 for myself.  
They are stripped though.  No extractors.

I am not buying anything else (mabey the 5.45 mags from cproduct) until I can get this thing to get a postive primer strike every time (or very close to it).  I shaped my FP and had to take some off the tail of the bolt - still no improvement.

Do you know someone that has an AK-74?  
I do but haven't had a chance to go over to his place yet.
I'd like to know what the FP protrusion is.  One of my friends that is a C2 and has a Post Sample AK-74 told me I didn't have enough protrusion and so I grinded at my FP and the result is the video you see above so it is working fine for me now with that bolt.
The bolt I was using in the video above was a Colt bolt that was opened up.

The AA bolts have the bolt face bored out deeper which allows for more FP protrusion BUT also changes the headspacing.  

My barrel and barrel extension are currently headspaced for my opened up Colt bolt.  

With AA bolt, the bolt closes on all the headspace gauges (go, no-go and field).

I've got another chrome lined AK-74 barrel and extension so I'll probably end up getting another upper built for the AA bolt w/ the proper headspacing but I'll also check on an AK-74 for it's headspacing and FP protrusion first.

Ive got a 74 too.  That is what made me want an AR in 5.45.

What method did you use to measure protrusion?  I dont know if it is protrusion as much as spring strength.  The AK has one hell of a spring and hammer combo, the AR, not so much.  

I had the same protrusion issue with mine, but also had an issue with the firing pin channel in the bolt getting either gunked up from the primer sealant or rusted up from the corrosive ammo, I don't know which.  

Once I ground on the firing pin a little, and cleaned out the FP channel of the bolt, the light strikes went away.  

Did the FP reduction, issue is not gone.

Quoted: Ive got a 74 too.  That is what made me want an AR in 5.45. What method did you use to measure protrusion?  I dont know if it is protrusion as much as spring strength.  The AK has one hell of a spring and hammer combo, the AR, not so much.

Use the back end of a set of calipers to measure the protrusion.
I'm using the Wolf Xtra power hammer spring and you can see mine is not having a problem so I know that it is enough power.

Has GOT to be the harder primer on the bulgy ammo.  I am in the process of trying to score some russian or other common 5.45 to try.  It shoots wolf 100% but the wolf sometimes fails to extract and costs more than mil surp 5.45....

Quoted: Has GOT to be the harder primer on the bulgy ammo.

Don't think so.  The Bulgarian surplus is the ONLY 5.45 ammo I have and it is running in full auto in my setup fine after modding the bolt and FP.

GOT IT.

I switched out the heavy spring with a second heavy spring I bought and took a minute to square the face of the firing pin.  I get a much more pronounced primer strike and all the cases I have tested have fired.  I will take it out Sunday for another run.

5.45 Barrels/Uppers

Got a chance to go out and abuse C Products new 5.45 x 39 mags.  I bought 4 at 20$ each.  They were at my door well under the listed wait time.

They came packaged indivudually and mailed in a padded envolope.

Each mag looked well finished and nice.  


I promptly loaded three with bulgy and one with wolf to test.  I left them to sit for three days .  I have been having problems with wolf in USGI mags with 6.8 followers, so this was going to be a good test.

I also numbered each mag to track issues.


While shooting, I only had 2 failures to feed one out of mag 1 and one out of mag 3.  I need to retest before saying anything else. The falure happened halfway through each mag.
I also inserted and removed mag 1 several hundred time to see if I could wear the finish on this mag.  It didnt happen.  You will see that mag 2 has signifigant finish wear.  I am using an older dedicated superior lower that has a tight mag well.  The #2 mag rubbed quite a bit, but I continued to insert and remove it.  After a couple of dozen times, the finish wore and the mag inserts fine and extracts just fine.  I have no problem with this, and blame the lower.





Overall, I am glad c products made this mag, and will be picking up at least 4 more in the near future.  The rifle has just over 1080 rounds down range, and after a few more mag tests will be deemed "worthy" of duty and classes.  Thanks to Kurt and C products for helping this come together.

Great post.  Thanks a lot.

I guess since I am sitting here drinking a few beers, I should take the time to list what all went into this build, as I have been getting some Ims about stuff.  I bought an ak 74 barrel from an internet company.  It was a standard AK barrel with gas port already drilled.( Kurt plugs the port and re drills one at midlenght or carbine length depending on what you want)  (I purchased a regular .75? FSB because Kurt makes a sleeve or shim to fit under the FSB and the barrel.  The pin holes still contact the barrel and allow the FSB to be pinned securely and allow the use of the FSB.  If you are using a flat top upper, make sure you have an "F" marked FSB for correct height.) I then went to Bravo Company USA and bought a Barrel extension (the part that allows you to add a barrel to your upper) to be put on the barrel and secured once the barrel was threaded on the chamber side. I also picked up a midlenght gas tube, bolt, front sight base w/pins A2 flash hider and peel washer (for suppressor) you can use a crush washer and save 3$.  I sent all of those parts to Kurt who threaded and put them together for me.  He expanded the bolt face to fit 5.45 and cut the extractor too. You can buy 6.8 bolts or use Alexandar Arms bolts that were made for 5.45.  I plan on checking those out too.  

When I received the rifle, I had some questions about its legality in terms of length.  I had no doubts it was legal, as 16 inches (the length of the AK barrel) PLUS the barrel extension would put it up over 16in.  Using the ATF method (first I shot my dog, then burned my own house down before actually looking at the evidence) I inserted a 3 ft drill bit, or cleaning rod.  
Insert this rod until it touches the bolt face and stops.
Mark it

Then remove the length and insert the end to touch the crown of the barrel. (Because the A2 flash hider is removable and does not give a true depth when measured from the outside) Mark this as well.

What you have is a rod with two pieces of tape.  In my pictures the left side of the right piece of tape is where the rod comes out of the flash hider.  the left side of the tape on the left side of the rod is where the rod touches the crown and then protrudes to the flash hider.  You then measure from the left side of the left piece of tape to the left side of the right piece of tape, and Viola!  16+ inches.  (Enough to have you acquitted and compensated after 13 months of wrongful incarceration.)  Remember, if you have the ability, ALWAYS make your barrel lengths AT LEAST 1/4 in OVER the legal limit.  




(Actual measurements were performed with a good measuring tape and using sharpies and rounding down to enact more stringent measuring methods to ensure compliance.  Shitty tape and electrical tape used for educational purposes only.)

Turned out nice.  Some Q's:
Midlength gas port position correct?
Whose float tube/handguard?
Any chrono velocity numbers yet?
Rifling twist?
Whose chest rig? - nice set-up for pistol, rifle, and shotgun.

Quoted: Turned out nice.  Some Q's: Midlength gas port position correct? Yes Whose float tube/handguard? YHM, I have a few and love them for the price Any chrono velocity numbers yet? nope, but would expect it to be adverage with what the AK gets...  The recoil is slightly shaper and more pronounced than with 5.56, but that doesnt really make a difference on how much I am saving vs shooting 223 Rifling twist? Like 1/11 or what ever the combloc uses, its an ak 74 barrel Whose chest rig? - nice set-up for pistol, rifle, and shotgun. Todd sells them from Ranier gear, its a custom run of Tactical Taylor mini mavs with all tactical taylor pouches.  Affordable and you dont even know you are wearing it.... He is selling them in the EE

headed
First is that it will not unchamber Wolf 70 gr Military Classic FMJ's without a very hard push.  I shoved the charging handle hard against a wooden upright in the multiple times rounds would not unchamber.  I marked a bullet, then chambered the round; it showed contact with the bore (unsafe condition). he

70 Gr bullets are a non-typical load. Stick with military loads Ie 60 gr and you will probably have no problems.

The 70 Gr bullets also have trouble stabilizing out of many AK74s.  

.

PENDING EDIT -

Well all my parts are now at KKF awaitinga build.

I went with a Youngs NM Chrome bolt carrier group, swapped out the bolt with an AA .221 Genghis bolt.  Kurt is going to chrome it as well.

I may end up getting Kurts M9EVO Gas Piston system as well, though I may hold off on that.

Have the C Products mags as well.  Can't wait!

Quoted: Todd sells them from Ranier gear, its a custom run of Tactical Taylor mini mavs with all tactical taylor pouches.  Affordable and you dont even know you are wearing it.... He is selling them in the EE

Any chance of a link to it?  My search powers have apparently gone on vacation ...

Googled it ...

MOS.....

I know you mentioned buying a stronger trigger spring from Wolff....

I am thinking of going a different route....

Reduce the mass of the trigger and the same spring will then cause a strike with higher velocity....  more likely to ignite primer, I hope.

Anyone tried that yet that you know of?

Quoted: Well all my parts are now at KKF awaitinga build. I went with a Youngs NM Chrome bolt carrier group, swapped out the bolt with an AA .221 Genghis bolt.  Kurt is going to chrome it as well. I may end up getting Kurts M9EVO Gas Piston system as well, though I may hold off on that. Have the C Products mags as well.  Can't wait!

I bought two 6.8 bolts back when Kurt said that would be a good way to go....

Since then he said that the way to go is to send him 5.56 bolts to open up.

Two barrels/bolts have been at Kurts for a month now.  My CProducts 5.54 mags have been on order about as long.

Looking forward to building them up.


BTW...  How much extra to have the B/C chromed?

Quoted: Quoted: Well all my parts are now at KKF awaitinga build. I went with a Youngs NM Chrome bolt carrier group, swapped out the bolt with an AA .221 Genghis bolt.  Kurt is going to chrome it as well. I may end up getting Kurts M9EVO Gas Piston system as well, though I may hold off on that. Have the C Products mags as well.  Can't wait! I bought two 6.8 bolts back when Kurt said that would be a good way to go.... Since then he said that the way to go is to send him 5.56 bolts to open up. Two barrels/bolts have been at Kurts for a month now.  My CProducts 5.54 mags have been on order about as long. Looking forward to building them up. BTW...  How much extra to have the B/C chromed?

I may have seen your bolts/barrels there when I visited Kurt's!

Didn't get a price on the chromeing - I'll have to check on that - all I need chromed is just the bolt (which I bought from Alexander Arms, the .221 Genghis, so luckily it needs no modifications or opening up - woo hoo!)

My M&P 5.45 came back from Springfield MA today.  Still has the same problem with not handling Wolf Military Classic70 gr FMJ.  The loaded bullet tip is contacting the leade in the barrel.

The specific lot of Wolf 70 gr chambers and live ejects just fine out of a friend's SAR-2.

Another phone visit with S&W ensued.  They are saying that they are observing considerable variation in spec's of that particular weight of Wolf 5.45 ammo.  Some lots work fine, while other lots don't.  

S&W has no sway over Wolf's quality control, nor is there a SAAMI-like organization to which Wolf must conform.  

As before, the rifle perfectly loads and ejects 53 and 60 gr loaded rounds of various milsup 5.45 ammo.  If S&W reams the chamber out to accept all variations of 70 gr, then the accuracy of lighter bullets will likely suffer.  I'm inclined to have S&W leave the chamber alone, so I can shoot the lighter weight ammo with full accuracy.  There is ample lighter bullet weight ammo out there.

Figured I should post a review again.

I am 3 tins deep into this rifle.  I have cleaned it twice and not had any issues with rust or corrosion.  I run it well lubed and greased with red bearing grease.

Last week:  I took this rifle to Adrenaline Proving Grounds.  I was able to fire 8 mags at a IDPA target at 300 Yds.  I rested the rifle on the magazine and shot as fast as I could get sight picture/alignment.  I only lost 16 rounds off target.

Mag #3 from Cproducts was to only mag to give me any issues, misfeeding every 5th shot.

I took this AR to the Tiger Valley Bug Out Drill

The first rifle test was 30 round in 1 min, 15 at a stationary target in 30 sec, 15 at a mover in 30 sec.  I scored 24/30 with Irons.
This rifle went on to have the shit kicked out of it and succeed.  I did things like smash 2inch dowel rods, ect...

Got a chance to get out last Friday and run the MEUSOC rifle drill.  Got some video I will host later.  I managed to only drop 6 rounds out of the "0" score boxes on an IDPA target out of 90 rounds.  I used mag # 3 as my malfunction training mag.  I got to about 15yds, fired it till it jammed and then transitioned to pistol, did a failure to stop and then cleared the malfunction.  I only had about 3 malfunctions out of this mag.  All other mags were ran fast and hot.  This rifle has benefited from the movement of my eotech to it.  It is really fast.
I will put up video and a new picture with optic.

Got out again for 8 mags of rapid fire from the 100 using the mag as a mono pod.  I had to make some adjustments for the Eotech (high and rt) but shooting rt and lt handed it ran well.  Magazine 3 gave me 4 stoppages.

Pics of how it looks now.


I ran 8 mags at a very rapid pace and got this rifle as hot as I have, it shot like this.

Man-o-man.  Nine weeks would be great!  I shipped barrels to him 12 weeks ago and he hasn't touched them yet!  Still going to be another 3-4 weeks.

He got busy.  I would imagine as deer season approaches, and with the impending pollitical climate + his ability to crank out these type of builds and the evo mods he does - you may be waiting now.  But the wait is worth it.

Some vid from Oct that I finally got up. Running the MEUSOC rifle qual.

Hey it's Tom Bean, do  you go there often? I just took my 5.45 AR there a few weeks ago for it's first run. The only mag I had sucked and my order of new ones just came in.

its pretty much the only place I shoot.