So this past week I ordered a Rainier Arms NiB Match Grade.308/7.62x51 BCG from AIM....and this is what I got.  Keep in mind, this is straight out of the wrapper.  I haven't put this in a weapon or done anything with it other than have it sit on my desk.

Someone convince me this BCG is totally fine and it's capable of shooting sub-MOA groups for decades to come.  Am I way off base here?  

There are ALOT of machining marks on the outside of the carrier, including the 7 points of contact that meet the upper receiver.




In addition to the machining marks, it appears that the cuts on either side of the bottom of the carrier extended too far, past the firing pin, creating two "corners" that don't exist on my other BCGs.


The cuts that divide the locking lugs are also completely uneven.  On one side, they proceed past the lugs and into the bolt head itself.  On the other side...nothing (flush with the bolt).  The cut next to the extractor is rather deep.

post this in their industry forum

Done.

rainier has a lifetime warranty correct? I assume they would probably take it back if you're not satisfied, as long as it is unfired.  They seem to be pretty good about things like this.

contact the vendor/manufacturer. in the first place.

I think you are being too picky, it probably works just fine.
I've dealt with them quite a bit and I doubt they would sell it if it won't work.
And if it don't they would take care of the problem

I'm definitely not doubting the customer service of Rainier.  I've purchased quite a bit from them in the past and have always received items quickly and in excellent shape.

I'm just putting this out there to see if anyone else's BCGs look like this.  Honestly, I don't think it's very good.  If I just wanted something that "worked fine", I would have bought the cheapest BCG I could find.  I spent a little bit more because I wanted a high quality product.

it appears that the cuts on either side of the bottom of the carrier extended too far, past the firing pin, creating two "corners"
The chrome DPMS I just checked does also, almost like it was meant to be like that
Oh, and the JP bolt I also looked at, is pretty similar, the machining marks you are unhappy with are not contact points
Shoot it.

Fair enough.

Just to be clear, the actual contact points on the carrier are not smooth either, they have very fine ridges on them as well.  I'll probably live with it. Consider this my "review" thread.

I think these are the same NiB bcg's sold by 7.62 industries and a few others. I did a LOT of searching on BCG's for my Maten build and I didn't like what I heard about these NiB BCG's that seemed to always be in stock everywhere. Rough machining and 'zipper' sounds when loaded into your brand new upper as rough edges and burs cut grooves into your receiver. I know, just a tool... but still... for over 300 bucks?

I spent extra and just bought the JP BCG, this thing is like silk in my upper and functions perfectly. I don't regret the purchase at all, I got mine from brownells.

Probably works fine but I would not like it either, not what I would expect anyway.
The JP above was obviously finished much better. The final sand and polish did not get much if any attention on your carrier.

Its sad to see this marketed as a "MATCH GRADE" bcg. Certainly not match grade with that lack of attention to detail. I am in the market for a new BCG myself for an MaTen build. The only thing that worries me about the JP carrier is it is low mass. I am getting the PRI flip up sight/gas block and will not be adjustable. Just being paranoid I guess, but I am completely splurging on my MaTen build. I get my receivers next week sometime, and I want the best I can get all the way around. Im working in Afghanistan and this is going to be my personal reward to myself. So, I want the best I can find.

Does JP not make a "full mass" carrier for the 308?

The BCG has nothing to do with how accurately your rifle shoots



 

No it doesnt have anything to do with accuracy. It has everything to do with reliability.

This.

Also, that JP BCG looks great.  That was my other option.  I think I may spend the extra cash and go with that after all.

Yup those machine marks are really going to hurt reliability...oh wait.

 

Have you ever done any testing to confirm this?  I had a 308 AR I built that that suddenly went from very accurate to 3-4 moa.  I ended up (over a out a year)replacing everything but the BCG, because I thought the BCG had nothing to do with accuracy.  It still wouldn't shoot well, so while at the range one day a friend took the BCG out of his Larue and told me to try it in my rifle.  The groups immediately shrank from 3-4 moa to sub 1moa.  I replaced the BCG and all was well.  I never could detect anything wrong with the old one, but it most definitely had an effect on accuracy.

I am going to call BS on that.

The BOLT can potentially, if the bolt face is not concentric to the lugs, or if it is out of spec or worn in such a way, that headspace is affected.  That said - these very VERY TINY affects on accuracy potential.

TACP14, Your Rainier bolt looks just like the one I have from 762 Industries.  Tool marks all over including the bearing surfaces which should be smooth.  Does your bolt make a zip sound like a file if you drag your finger nail down the bearing surface?  For $300+ it shouldn't like that.  When I put my into my upper it sounded like a zipper as it slid into place.  I can't imagine this being a good thing.  I have a new one coming from Shadow Ops Weaponry, I figured I'd take a chance because they offer a full refund plus return shipping if I'm unhappy so I'll see how it goes.

I saw the Shadow Ops BCG and considered it as well....as soon as you get it let us all know via pics in this thread how you like it.  

And yes.  My current BCG's bearing surfaces/contact point all feel like I'm running my finger over a fine file.  I haven't put it in an upper, but the "zipping" sound seems like an appropriate representation.

I would have said the same thing before I experienced what I did.  I literally built a completely new rifle around the old BCG.  I would have bet a Benjamin that a different BCG wouldn't remedy the poor accuracy, but it did.

BTW- looking at the OPs bolt, I would say the lugs are almost certainly not concentric with the body of the bolt and likely not concentric with the bolt face.

It will be another week or so before it ships but I will be sure to give an update with some pics.  The guy from Shadow Ops said they are "As smooth as silk" so we shall see.  When I pulled my 762 Industries BCG from the upper I wiped my finger on it and got some black residue which appeared to be the anodizing from the upper and that is not good.

DPMS upper and carrier, contact points on this are about 11:00, 1:00, 4:00, 8:00, with upper off the lower and upside down or right side up, moving the carrier both directions, it does make a bit of a zip sound.
I can't hear it when shooting it, I don't worry about it. Actually I'm going to shoot it now, maybe I'll post some pics.

The zip sound I have experienced with my .308 BCG is not subtle and I can't imagine it to be normal or acceptable.  I have never heard my AR15's make a zip sound and the bearing surfaces on those BCG's have no machine marks and charge very smooth.

 I would send it back. I expect more for that kind of money. It looks like they just machined it to size in one pass, instead of "bothering" to take a finish cut. That is not quality machining. It may work fine, but you paid for more than just "works fine".

 I once worked at a shop that a cotton ball had to be dragged over ACME threads when you were done. If it snagged the cotton, you were
not "done". They would have still worked just fine, but that isn't the point. We did quality work.

  When it comes to machining quality parts, "Smooth is beautiful".

Amen Brother

That looks like crap.  I'd be asking for a replacement.

I have some $100 BCGs that look better than that.  Having many friends in the tool and die biz and hanging around their shops I'm not completely clueless regarding machining quality.



That looks like crap, looks like crap often means functions for crap.  I would be pissed and want my money back.

Send it back, if you don't like it for any reason.

They don't machine these themselves. You let Rainer know about this, and they will talk to their vendor/supplier.

I am NOT going to tell to keep it just bacause it is a Rainer Arm product.

Im curious about the Shadow Ops BCG as well. They have a hell of a deal on them right now, and Im tempted to try it out.

Shadow Ops Weaponry canceled my 308 BCG order.  I sent a message to them through facebook two days ago saying that nobody was answering the phone and I wanted an order staus update because I wanted to know why my credit card was charged and I hadn't received a shipment notification.  After the message was sent they returned my missed call and I spoke with a nice lady named Lorie who assured me everything was going good and it would ship in a week on Monday.  I said you work on Labor Day?  She said we work 7 days a week sir.  I said okay and left it at that.  So yesterday I get a late night response on facebook from Paul the owner saying that he apologized and that he would give me a refund if I wanted.  Then another message came right after before I could reply to the first one and said that my order was canceled and that a full refund was issued to my credit card.  I couldn't believe it.  This was the facebook exchange...

Me-
Hi, nobody wants to answer the phone so I thought I would message you.  I want a status update on order #6225.  My credit card was already charged so I am assuming it shipped but I was not notified.  If it has not shipped why is my card being charged?

Shadow Ops-
Hi Chris ~ I will cancel you out and refund you now. It won't ship for another 5 days. Sorry about that ~ Paul

Shadow Ops-
Hi Chris ~ You are cancelled out and a 100% full refund has been given. Just note on the listing that it said it would shipped 18 days after purchase. Just letting you know on it ~ Take care ~ Paul

Me-
I never wanted to be canceled I just wanted to know why my card was charged for something that wasn't sent out yet.  Normal companies do not charge a credit card until the item is shipped.  I think your decision to cancel my order was both hasty and unwarranted and it was done without my consent.  By you doing this I feel that you have shown your true colors as a company.  I could have been more patient about you not answering the phone but to cancel my order is over the top.  I will not be doing business with you again.  Have a nice day!

Shadow Ops-
I thought that is what you wanted, your money or your bolt? I was just being honest with you and giving you your money back. That is the way I saw it. Because you were upset about it not shipping instantly. It is the lowest price on that BCG in the country though. Take care ~ Paul

Me-
I can appreciate you trying be honest but I was okay with waiting 18 days.  I was uneasy about my credit card being charged without shipment but you could've explained that to me instead of canceling my order.  I think you jumped the gun.

So after all this I decided to order a 308 BCG from WMD Guns for $362 with shipping and they said that it will ship out today.  I feel better about WMD and should've went with them in the first place.  I'm sorry it didn't work out with Shadow Ops because that is one heck of a deal if it's as good as they say it is.  I would have liked to see their product and given them a chance but oh well.  Maybe I was too pushy or something but I think I had a valid reason to ask those questions and I was just afraid of getting taken for a ride because it's happened to me before by other companies.  I'm not trying to turn anyone away from Shadow Ops they look they they do good work.  I just wanted to explain the situation so take from this what you will gentlemen, just thought I would share.  Sorry for being long winded.

This is a picture of my Intacto Arms Nickel Boron BCG when it was brand new, $150 well spent!

http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx333/moebetter00/CAM00055_zps4df570cf.jpg

That looks nice but unfortunately they don't sell 308 BCG's or NiB for that matter, only chrome.

I got my hands on a Knights (KAC) NiB bolt carrier today.  That thing was amazing... they completely dehorn every rough edge and surface.  It was completely slick.  Then NiB coated.  It was the nicest carrier I have seen.  Way slicker than my WMD.

How did you do that?

Funny thing, I just went through this same issue with Rainier. Mine looked way worse then yours. The whole reasoning for me ordering their more expensive 308 matchgrade BCG was they would headspace them.  I order the same BCG with their  16in SS 308 barrel so it would be headspaced properly. I get the BCG and all 4 surfaces where like a rough metal file. Not a little bit, a LOT. It would zip when I ran a fingernail and placed it in my Mega upper.I looked online, it must be the same as the 762 industries, they both have this issue.  After talking to them they told me to send back the  carrier only and they would try to swap it with one without the file like surfaces. That way the bolt they sent me would still be headspaced to my barrel. They did pay for that return shipping, when they go it , they said they had no replacement carriers that were smooth. Then I was faced with mailing back the rest of my BCG on my dime (which should have never been shipped out that way with such piss poor machining) for a refund, or buy that bolt. I offered to buy just the bolt, but they wanted $150 which seemed excessive when a new JP bolt is only 169. I ended up returning the rest of the BCG for a refund, and have found another one from someone else who told me theirs does not have that issue.

As far as Rainier goes,  don't get me wrong, everyone I talked to was nice. The fact that they took the BCG out to headspace, had to see how poorly they are machined on the bearing surfaces, and still sold them as matchgrade, or even acceptable, does not sit well with me. I was refunded, but I had to pay the ship the rest of the bcg back the 2nd go around when they tried to sell the bolt for $150. The guy who called me when I sent the carrier back pretty much told me every "matchgrade" 308 bcg they got is that way, and no, he wouldn't run it in his gun. I find it hard to stomach a much respected place like Rainier would intentionally pass such a bad product off knowing it is not right. I don't mind paying extra for something, but I want it right. Again they were all nice on the phone,  and I hated that fella was put in such an awkward position.  He knew what they had sold, and all he could say was sorry, and that I needed to pay to send the rest back. Not exactly the experience I was expecting, given all I had read about them. You live and you learn. Don't buy their "Match Grade 308 BCG" would be my recommendation.

These are not my pictures, but these are identical to someone on another forum who bought a 762 industries BCG. Mine looked identical with the ridge/file bearing surfaces. Imagine that running back and down the upper after every shot.

http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w675/kult_la/Carrier%20Rail/Carrier-3_zps081973d8.jpg

Jesus Christ on ice skates

Is thread really about machine marks on a bolt carrier?

If it is OP is a picky little girl

Yep.   But, but, but it might scratch the inside of a receiver.  :-)

That said, if I pay extra for NiB then it would bother me on bearing surfaces as it would negate the lubricity properties you are paying more for.

True but what is the actual depth of those "scratches", seriously compare the cost of a polished tightly finished part to one that is ruougher machined. Maybe Rainer spent more money on the quality of the steel instead of more time making sure the thing is polished to the nines. Or it could just be a dull tool, either way they aren't enough to worry about. OP, if it gives you problems call Rainer and give them hell

Op, I'm going to do something I rarely do, and offer info on NiB from my regular account.

EXO NiB is almost like a clear coat. It shows every flaw in a BCG. The reason you don't see these flaws in a normal phosphate BCG is because phosphate is almost like paint. It covers up the majority of the flaws in the group you buy. All of your phosphate carriers look that rough under the paint. You just can't see it.

There's also only 2 different types of true NiB. There are 3 different types of NiB currently on the market. With a bit of Google, you'll figure out what's going on.

I'm pretty sure Rainier has a 30 day trial-refund period, anybody bother to actually run one of these before Bitching about it?,
I bet those guys are busy putting rounds down range

I think mine is from 762industries and mine is flawless.

  Manly men run rough parts and love it!

No, that's not the case. Match grade parts are not supposed to be machined so roughly. But, if you wanna spend 2000+ on a build, only to have it fuck up your 600+ receivers, go ahead. That doesn't make you manly.

Dealing with getting screwed makes you stupid. Making sure you don't screwed makes you more of a man than dealing with it.

Read the whole thread or check your sarcasm meter, one or the other.  

Mine didn't have scratches,etc on the carrier. It's only issue was the file rough  bearing surfaces. If you can't feel anything run it. Mine sounded like someone working a file up and down the receiver when moving. With nib being stronger than aluminum, which do you think is going to wear away.  I would have cared less if it was an area that made no contact with the upper, but when the only 4 sides that the  bcg slide on is like a file.....no.

On mine the marks would easily catch your fingernail. Imagine the sound when you tighten a large zip tie, ...that's what it sounded like in the upper and when running your finger  down it. The non contact sides on mine were flawless, but the sliding parts ,not so much

lmao

I bought the same one (from 762) and I promptly returned it.  The machining was horrible.  

Not a good BCG, in my opinion.

I am sure it would work and function function fine, but it would  file away my receiver on each shot. What's harder, that bcg or the al. Upper? Would you run a  file down your rec. rails,because that's what mine would have done. The whole thing doesn't need to be smooth/polished...but the sliding bearing surfaces sure as hell does