Billet is one of the dumbest things i have ever heard of, I want to pay more for a less durable but prettier receiver

Quoted: On the other hand, some high-end AR builders do say that the billet upper receivers are straighter and truer than the forged upper receivers which leads to a slight improvemant in accuracy/precision.

Some high end builders are simply better salesmen looking to get every penny they can out of their customer.

I like both for different reasons.......

now, from a manufacturers point of view, when you are doing billet lowers, you can make what you want, how you want it and the way you want it. you have more control over production. you can make it more custom: IE: built in trigger gaurd, Ambi bolt release, custom selector markings, custom look.........also, if the manufacturer () is doing it in house, changes can be made faster and easier also......the forgings that are out there are more for the basic mil-spec lower and limited to what one can do to it.

Do I have a preference......I probably have a preference for the Billet, more for cosmetic reasons then anything, and the appreciation of the maching and work that went into it....am I gonna run out and sell all my forged and polymer lowers......no.....will I continue to buy all types, yes: because I must obey the ARFCOM creed - I am a AR15 gun whore and will never have enough ar15 receivers/rifles, if it goes bang I must it.

WANT TO PUT YOUR FAVORITE FORGED UPPER RECEIVER AND FREE FLOATING FOREND TO A LITTLE TEST?

REMOVE YOUR SIGHTS AND OPTICS FROM YOUR FLAT TOP AR'. TAKE A STRAIGHT EDGE, LIKE A GOOD STEEL RULER, AND LAY IT ACROSS THE TOP RAIL OF YOUR FORGED FLAT TOP UPPER, FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER. NOW LOOK FOR LIGHT COMING UNDER THE RULER IN THE MIDDLE.

NEXT, SIGHT DOWN THE SIDE OF THE TOP RAIL OF THE RECEIVER AND FOREND. SEE THE FOREND POINTING A TAD "UPWARD"?

FAR TOO MANY FORGED UPPER RECEIVERS ARE WARPED, OR "SWAY-BACKED", WITH THREADS NOT SQUARE UP FRONT. AND THAT'S NOT ALL OF THE PROBLEMS WE'VE SEEN WITH CONVENTIONAL FORGED RECEIVERS ....

ONE BASIC FACT: I'VE SENT MORE RECEIVERS BACK TO THE MANUFACTURERS OF RECEIVERS OUR COMPETITORS USE THAN I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO KEEP AND USE IN CUSTOM BUILDS.

I'VE ACTUALLY HAVE HAD MORE THAN A RUDIMENTARY COURSE IN STATISTICS. I'VE GOT A SHEEPSKIN TO PROVE IT. I'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO FREELY ADMIT THAT OUR EVIDENCE OF PROBLEMS WITH FORGED RECEIVERS WE'VE EXPERIENCED IS TECHNICALLY ANECDOTAL, NOT TRUE SCIENCE. NEVERTHELESS, IT WAS SUFFICIENT TO CONVINCE PAUL AND ME THAT WE WANTED SOMETHING BETTER. I ALSO FEEL THAT OUR COMPANY, MSTN, IS MORE RESPONSIBLE THAN ANY OTHER IN BEATING THE DRUM LONG AND HARD ENOUGH TO GET BETTER RECEIVERS FOR OUR CUSTOM BUILDS.

KEEP IN MIND THAT THE ISSUE IS REALLY NOT WHETHER THE RECEIVER IS BILLET OR FORGED. THE ISSUE IS WHETHER OR NOT THE RECEIVER IS SUFFICIENTLY CORRECT DIMENSIONALLY TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THE BARREL. THAT'S ALL. I WOULD NOT CARE IF THEY ARE BILLET, FORGED, CAST, OR HAMMERED OUT ON AN ANVIL, SO LONG AS THEY WERE SUFFICIENTLY STRONG AND TRUE. I DO ADMIT TO LIKING GOOD LOOKS, BUT THIS IS JUST A SECONDARY BENEFIT OF THE HIGH END STUFF WE USE.

WE'VE WORKED WITH FORGED RECEIVERS IN CUSTOM BUILDS SINCE 2000 ON A REGULAR BASIS. WE'VE SEEN WARTIME DEMAND CAUSE CIVILIAN PRODUCT QUALITY TO SLIP, FRANKLY, IN MANY AREAS. THE CIVILIAN MARKET GETS A LOT OF REJECTS. I'VE SEEN EVERYTHING FROM GOOD TO BAD, FROM COLT, LMT, KNIGHT'S, AND STAG, PLUS OTHER POPULAR BRANDS. THE BILLET RECEIVERS FROM VLTOR AND LARUE HAVE WORKED OUT MUCH BETTER FOR US, OVERALL, DUE TO THEIR DIMENSIONAL ACCURACY, THAN CONVENTIONAL FORGED RECEIVERS WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO BUY. I CANNOT SPEAK FOR OTHER BILLET RECEIVERS I HAVE NOT USED, OF COURSE.

VLTOR IS NOW BEGINNING TO FORGE THEIR UPPER RECEIVERS. THEY'RE WORKING OUT VERY WELL. LARUE STEALTH RECEIVERS MACHINED FROM BILLET CONTINUE TO WORK OUT QUITE WELL FOR US, ALSO. WHY - BECAUSE THEY ARE STRAIGHT.

PAUL AND I WORK HARD TO BUILD THE BEST CUSTOM PRECISION UPPER RECEIVERS AVAILABLE. WE'RE NOT ASHAMED THAT THEY COST MORE. PRICE IS A SIMPLY A MEASURE OF VALUE, REFLECTING OF THE COST OF THE COMPONENTS USED AND THE TIME DEVOTED TO SELECTION, ASSEMBLY, FINAL FIT AND FINISH, PLUS FUNCTION TESTING WITH MATCH GRADE AMMO. OUR BUILDS ARE NOT IDEALLY SUITED FOR EVERYONE'S NEEDS. HOWEVER, WE'VE GOT ABOUT ALL THE CUSTOM BUILD WORK WE CAN HANDLE, SO I SUPPOSE THERE ARE SUFFICIENT CUSTOMERS OUT THERE WHO LIKE WHAT WE'RE DOING.

GOOD SHOOTING,

WES GRANT
MSTN.BIZ

Quoted: THE ISSUE IS REALLY NOT WHETHER THE RECEIVER IS BILLET OR FORGED. THE ISSUE IS WHETHER OR NOT THE RECEIVER IS SUFFICIENTLY CORRECT DIMENSIONALLY TO GET THE MOST OUT OF THE BARREL Bingo!

How does the receiver have anything to do with the way the lugs lock up in the barrel extension in a properly headspaced bolt? Then you would have ignore all the slop in the carrier, which again has nothing to do with accuacy after the bolt is locked in the barrel extension.  And even IF(which it isnt) something was off (it wouldnt be enough to matter) in the lock-up, it would be  consistant so it wouldnt matter because it would lock up the same way every time.


The bullshit people eat by the spoon full here amazes me.

How does the receiver have anything to do with the way the lugs lock up in the barrel extension in a properly headspaced bolt?

IN A RECENT THREAD WHERE I ADVOCATED HEADSPACING, YOU SAID THE HEADSPACING OF BOLTS WAS A GIMMICK TO MILK CUSTOMERS OUT OF THEIR MONEY. NOW, YOU'RE FOR IT.

SO, NOW WE AGREE ???

Then you would have ignore all the slop in the carrier...

OUR YOUNG MFG HARD CHROMED (THEN USUALLY IONBOND DIAMNONDBLACK COATED) CARRIERS REALLY DO NOT EXHIBIT "SLOP", BEING ON THE "CHUBBY" SIDE OF TOLERANCES, SO MAYBE YOU'RE ON TO SOMETHING.

it would be  consistant so it wouldnt matter because it would lock up the same way every time.

SO YOU THINK "SLOPPY" YIELDS "CONSISTENT" RESULTS? YOU'RE RIGHT.

CONSISTENTLY SLOPPY RESULTS.

SO, WE AGREE YET AGAIN.

The bullshit people eat by the spoon full here amazes me.

THREE TIMES IN THE SAME THREAD WE AGREE!

YOU KEEP BUILDING YOURS YOUR WAY, AND WE'LL KEEP BUILDING THEM OUR WAY.

HAS EVERYONE NOW CHECKED THEIR UPPER RECEIVER WITH A STRAIGHT EDGE? SIGHTED DOWN THE SIDE OF THE RECEIVER/FOREND TOP RAIL FOR ALIGNMENT?

GOOD SHOOTING,

WES