Exactly what I was thinking.  Go to their website, it's like looking at the WayBackMachine.

QuickLoad

Well i shot everything but my 260 this morning...



I gotta get it out.

I'm not sure that's the type of range report we wanted.  

I'm using the program and it has the look and feel of Win 2000.     It's a very powerful tool but it's going to be a manual process to load bullet data, customize to a rifle, etc., etc.  I want to benefit from the OCW theory and this is the program that can help, but it's taking me back to the future.

so what is causing you to shy away from the prime ammo? i have only fired a box unsupressed but accuracy was great.it was a little hot and would cycle the gun in the supressed mode so i just figured why not let it run there.personally as a hunter i have had better results with a heavy bullet so that is where i want to stay. im planning on swapping in the jp hp bolt before my next trip to the range this weekend and seeing how the primers look after that.
i do agree the gun may be slightly overgassed for shooting prime but im not sure i care,it seems to function fine and is shooting tight groups,i have yet to swap up anything but the stock and went to the ctr and riser as i have not yet  ordered a rifle length extension for the magpul prs stock. instead picked up the fde 6.5 g today.
pete

Congrats on the 6.5G!  If I didn't waste my money on things like radars, too much ammo, new optics, etc., etc., I could have ordered, but then I'd have to start another "official" thread and I think I'll leave that to someone else.  

TL/DR:  My rifle prefers lighter bullets and less pressure, yours may too.

Not trying to be flip, but I'm listening to what the rifle is telling me.  Nothing against the Prime, or the FGMM (heavier 142gr bullet), but I just don't think they're suited to my rifle as loaded by the manufacturer. The Prime is loaded to the edge and for bolt guns. Accuracy is good but I suspect the pressure is right at the edge for a 130gr bullet being pushed at 2880 - 2920fps in my 22" barrel.  The FGMM is similar in that you have to load towards the top end to get a heavier bullet moving at 2750fps.  In my rifle, that translates to heavier recoil and in one session, blown primers due to temperature.

I don't have exact calculations on port pressures, but a round loaded towards the top of the curve provides somewhere from 55,000 to 60,000psi (peak pressure). Even in a 22" barrel with a +2 gas system that could be 18,000psi at the port which then hammers the carrier with 2,500psi+ of gas pressure. Some people are shooting exclusively on the suppressed setting to mitigate the pressure they feel and see during firing.  Just my opinion, but maybe they should be shooting rounds that aren't as "hot."  The more pressure the round produces, the faster the pressure pushes the carrier and faster the unlock process occurs.  Too fast an unlock and you introduce more issues to the proper operation of the rifle.  

When I was shooting at 800 at Quantico last week I was (as usual) using the LabRadar to capture MVs so I was shooting differing ammo.  It was 85 degrees and direct sun, but I was keeping my ammo shielded in my bag until loaded and fired. I loaded a 142gr FGMM and fired it on the suppressed setting with the TQ attached and the recoil simply hammered me.  I could feel the buffer slam the stop in the tube and the recoil was heavier than normal.  I checked the brass and sure enough the primer was being pressed out from the pressure.  I didn't fire anymore of the FGMM and decided not to fire the Prime any longer in my rifle.  I also won't be firing any of the heavier bullets in the gasser; there's no need to try to temp the pressure gods pushing a 147gr ELD when the 130gr bullets, like the Hornady, work well. And to continue on my rant, note that the Gorilla ammunition was specifically designed for gassers and clocks at 2660fps.  That may be a little low, but I bet the pressure curve is well within limits.  In our quest for speed, we're tempting pressure.

My opinion is my rifle's sweet spot is in the 2750 - 2850fps range and probably towards the lower end.  I bought the QuickLoad program to see the pressure curves and what sort of cause and effect happens using differing loads, powders, bullets and seating depths.  The program compensates for temperatures and provides pressure curves as the temperatures rise of fall.  The program also provides bullet travel in milliseconds which responds to the Optimum Barrel Timing and Optimum Charge Weight concepts.  I'm going to play around with those features and tune a load.  Of course, I'll update the thread along the way.

thanks d3,
this weekend i will see what difference the barrel length makes and how mine shoots with the 18" and the prime.i have had such good groups with the prime and the 22", i see no reason to leave it yet(besides i have three cases).i have followed this thread closely and thank you for your posts,im envious of all your fine equipment and talent. i just wonder if maybe a guy should get the mothership involved if the gun is having the issues you describe with the ammo they test with and have sent with the rifles?  maybe they need to close up the gas port slightly or even better yet make their selector switch gas block adjustable on both settings so each user can tune it to their gun and ammo.

i realize that larue has no control over powder sensitivity of ammo and that could vary by region with the temps involved and where you store your ammo but my thinking was this gun was designed for possible military use and it gets pretty warm where most of the conflict usually occurs. so it should be designed to handle the different loads to a certain point,if not maybe the design needs a slight tweaking. with the money i have invested with larue i know i would give them a call to discuss this in depth and see if they have any insight as to a fix. my personal opinion is you should be able to go to cabelas and pick up any box of name brand 260 you want off the shelf and the gun should not blow primers or have any safety related issues,grouping issues are understandable,but safety/function issues should have been accounted for during design not by the end user in the field.

thanks again for all your posts on this

pete

Pete,

The only data points I have on the 18" barrel show FGMM clocking at 2577fps and the Gorilla at 2539fps; slower and less pressure than the 22."

I don't disagree with what you're saying and I hope I didn't come off like I was preaching.  I think it would be hard for any manufacturer to make a gasser than accepts any off the shelf ammo, especially some of the heavier hunting rounds.  For example, you don't shoot heavier bullets in your M14 without bending an op rod due to pressure.  I'm not discounting what you're saying, but gas guns are sensitive.

I hope the mothership is following the thread and maybe they'll chime in at some point.  We also may never know the port sizes any manufacturer uses, but it's been reported that Krieger and Bartlein use 0.086 for their 6.5s and 260s. The difference between 0.086 and a 0.092 in a RLGS could be a few thousand pounds of pressure at the carrier (which affects extraction) but you may need a larger gas port in the longer +2 system.  I don't have the expertise or know that answer.  From a LRRPF52 reply in a 308 gas port thread:

"A Krieger 20" RLGS I just worked on with .936" journal had .0935" port, like an AR15. I sealed the gas block and tube, and it was gassed very hard.

A Krieger 6.5 Creedmoor has a .086" port, RLGS and .936" journal.

Bartlein uses .086" for 6.5 CM and .260 Rem as well.

.308 has more bore volume and case capacity than 5.56, so the ports actually match up more or less.

The 6.5-08 cases use slower-burning powders, with less bore volume, so port pressure is much higher, necessitating a smaller gas port to reduce violent extraction."

Pete,

Here's what I was getting at and it deals with the OBT and OCW.  I want to find the optimum time the bullet is in the barrel to reduce whip, and time the bullet's exit while the wave is at the chamber, not the muzzle.  

Here's a OBT chart showing the nodes by barrel length.  My L260 has a 22" barrel so I need to look across the 22" line and see the nodes:



Now I want to develop a load that hits one of those nodes.  Here's a sample using QL for the Hornady .264 130gr ELD-M and 41.2grs of H4350 seated to a COAL of 2.800.  It's telling me my load will develop 50,000psi, travel at 2643fps and have a travel time in the barrel of 1.202ms, which is right at node 6 of the OBT.  



If I want to hit a faster node, I need to play around with the charge and the seating depth to try and get a faster load that hits a node.  I'd prefer to speed up to 2750fps, but I've not his a load with H4350 that hits that speed and corresponds to a 22" barrel node.  I also have to learn more about this program so I can true data (such as realized velocities).

ETA - I couldn't find a good load with H4350 that hit a node while giving me 2750fps, but here's one with Varget that hits the node at 2749fps, but the pressure approached 58,000psi.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is gospel, but I'm going to give it a try.  

Settled on a Berger 130 AR Hybrid load finally.

Berger 130 AR Hybrid
42.9g Reloder 16
CCI 200 Primer
Hornady .260Rem Brass
2.184 to the Ogive

I'm getting 2841fps with an SD of 9 for ten shots over the Magnetospeed. That puts me at 7.4 mils to 1,000 yards, beating the factory Hornady 130 Match ammo by .5 mils, and the advantage continues to grow as you go out further. Group size hovers around .6, which is more than good enough for the type of shooting that I'm doing.

I've got about 1500 of the Nosler 123 Custom Competitions on hand now, and I will be messing with them in the coming weeks. I think I will shoot the Bergers at bigger matches, or ones requiring shots past 1K, and I'll come up with a load for the 123s that I can run as a practice round or at shorter range matches.

Tonight is the yearly Sin City Precision midnight match, really looking forward to stretching the legs on the this LaRue out to 1,700 yards. First shots are at 10pm. I'll try to throw up a range report tomorrow morning.

Thanks for the update!  I don't have any of the Reloader, only H4350, Varget and H4895.  I wanted to get out to the gun show and pick some up, but HH6 hit me with a chore list that started with power washing.  

For the heck of it, I plugged your load into QL and it came up with a pressure of 56,327, a projected velocity of 2833fps and 1.137ms in the barrel (basically).

I also have a 1,000 of the 123gr Noslers and hope to get out tomorrow to shoot a few.  

It was a late night early morning liaise with my Leo buddy for some range time. It wasn't the kind of environment for the 260. We have to use suppressors at this location and I no haz for the 260

Cool, let me know how those Noslers do. I've got IMR4350, H4350, Varget, Reloder 16, and IMR 4451 available to try with them.

Thanks d3 I get what you are saying,but I just want to get a off the shelf box of ammo that shoots lights out in the 130gr range.i can reload but don't really have the time to do much of it. I primarily reload for handguns and a few rifles where the ammo is over35.00 a box.
Being in Minnesota where summer is gon in a blink and having a job in construction that is super busy every summer usually leaves me with more money than time so reloading has to take a backseat to shooting.
Maybe in another ten years when I retire I can get more into reloading.
Pete

The nodes tell me to load the Noslers to 35.5grs and 37.1grs of Varget and 41.6grs of H4350. I'll try those, as well as 10% + and - on the Varget.

Got ya - I'm a real fan of the Hornady 130s.  I can get them for under $24 a box shipped so they're a great deal, and very consistent.

Wondering it anyone had tried the Applied Ballistics ammo ?

http://www.buyabmammo.com/260-remington-130gr-berger-match-ar-hybrid.html

it is 2x the price  but they did say this was maid for semi autos vs there 140gr load

That will be awesome. 1700 yards, at night. Looking forward to reading your report about that, as the 130 Hybrids are working well in my gun too.

As far as the 123 cc's, I know what would be perfect for you and D3 use with those...

65 Grendel FDE

Still available.  Just sayin'.  

The initial 260s that went out were tested with ABM.  I was going to order one box, but at $50 I passed.

Let me guess, you're in?

I'm in on the 6.5 but after this thread I'm afraid to order up a case of ammo??.
O what the hell im not afraid of much time to get some ammo ordered up

I am.  Just the rifle, no extras.  I already have a couple of Grendel's, so you know, I really needed it.

No love for the 6.5G here. I've got plenty of 5.56, 7.62, 6.5CM, and .260Rem rifles to keep me busy. Adding yet another caliber to buy components, dies, mags, etc. for is just not in the cards for me right now. I've barely started to get to know this LaRue .260!

Reloader 16 isn't too easy to find at the moment, I think a lot of guys are using it instead of H4350. I called all my local shops and nobody has any RL16. I really just want 2 pounds to work up some loads with and see how it does compared to h4350. I tried the Nosler 140 rdf and they look promising so far at .060 off the lands, I'm going to load up some more tomorrow and do a little more testing before I settle on a load.

took it out the 18" .260 tonight.
130 ELD, still factory shooting about 2640 fps
steel plate at 350, 425, 600, and 1,080.

350- dialed 5.25 min  1.25 wind
425- dialed 7.5 min  1.75 wind
600- dialed 14 min  3 wind
1,080- dialed 37.5 min 9.5 wind

everyone except 1,080 was first round hits, it was gusty.
picture is steel targets at 600.  
easy peasy

next step hand loads.

Picked up a hundred Nosler brass and 2000 CCI primers today at the local store. They were completely out of 6.5mm 130gr bullets.

Looks like someone else local is gearing up for their 260 shooting too.

I need to order a couple cases of ammo to build up my brass stock.

Should have the barrel installed tomorrow. Burris 5-25 and LT mount should arrive Monday. Just in time to go shooting for the 4th.

Good Morning All!

Check out the 6.5 threads on ARF and the net.  There are plenty of good factory loads working in the gassers.  ARF member LRRPF52 is a huge G guy and I think runs a website and has written a book on the 6.5G.  Pick a factory load and see how cheap you can find a case on ammo seek.

So with so many G’s, how did you get the name AR10???

Maybe you could share some commercial load info with icecold so he can order some good factory stuff.

Same here, too many calibers is no bueno.  I was going to have a 6.5CM barrel spun up but heck, by the time you’re done, it’s a grand and for what, another set of dies, more factory ammo, etc., etc., and to what benefit over the 260?

Thanks, good info.  I have plenty of bullets in the 123-130 range so I’m going to let you guys burn some powder and money and report back.  The 123 Noslers are HPBT so it will be interesting to see how they perform versus some of the VLDs.

As to powder, the local Gander Mountain is closing so the closest store with supplies is GreenTop in Richmond, or Bass Pro in Ashland.  Both are an hour’s drive, but considering my commute, that’s not too bad.  

Excellent!  I hope you have a good range day!

Nice range report, thanks!

I think this is where the 260 shines, not making bug holes, but banging steel at range!

I still need to figure out that picture through the scope thing though.

Okay, it's 0615 and time to go downstairs and do some reloading!

Impulsiveness and poor planning. When I signed up for ARFCOM years ago, I was just interested in "lurking" (notice the low post count) and I had an AR10 that was my all time favorite rifle. AR being my favorite type rifle and 308 my favorite cartridge, no one was ever going to come up with anything else I liked as good as that, right?  Truth is I currently like both, especially now that there's a 260 option in the large frame.

I do plan to shoot some different types ammo for the new Grendel and will report that in the appropriate thread.

I may have pulled a fast one on the wife.  She knew I wanted to go shooting today but was grousing about more chores.  I looked up the range schedule and it was a "guest shoot" day, which I do my best to stay clear due to excessive derp.  I'm working from home next week so it should be easy to divert for a few hours to the range and get my load testing done. I told wifey I'd do the chores instead of shooting (more power washing, gardening, planting some flowers, pulling some poison ivy, moving rock, moving dirt, etc., etc.), and just finished up.  I think she feels bad, which I'll pocket and use when needed.  

I was loading some ELD-Ms and Nosler 123 Custom Competition HPBTs early this morning.  I started by prepping the Alpha brass with a debur and chamfer and had some shavings after 100rds.  



I started loading the ELD-Ms and then the Noslers when I found this bad boy - a flattened Nosler - how do you think it would have shot?  



I loaded using the Apha brass, Federal 210Ms and both H4350 and Varget.  I'm trying the OBT and OCW theories and loaded some rounds to the node, and I also loaded around the nodes to see if there's any difference.  This will be a 100y range day and I'll LabRadar all of them to record the MVs against the results as many of these are lower FPS loads.

I finished up with:

Hornady ELD-Ms - H4350 @ 40.8, 41.1 and 41.4.  I also took some of the factory Hornady and reseated them from 2.793 (factory) to 2.750 to see what a jump does since they seem (at 2.793) to be touching the lands,

Nosler 123CC - H4350 @ 41.3, 41.6 and 41.9,

Hornady ELD-Ms - Varget @ 36.4, 36.7 and 37,

Nosler 123CC - Varget @ 35.2, 35.5, 35.8; 36.8, 37.1 and 37.4.

The 260 is ready, range bags are loaded and the testing targets are pasted, I just need to get to the range!

So I ordered up a case of the 260 hornady Elds and a couple cases of the hornady 6.5 black elds for the yet to arrive new larue G

Thanks d3 you may just inspire me enough to reload a few 260"s myself
Pete

It's in!

Attached File

Attached File

Attached File

I think you'll like those ELDs in the 260! I think everyone is reporting they're shooting well in their rifles.

As to reloading, I was hedging my bets as I thought Hitlery would win.  Once The Donald pulled it out, I was all dressed up with no where to go so it made sense to at least start to reload. For the money though, you could stay with the ELDs and be just as well off.  

Looking good!  But it's a bit nekid, what optic are you planning?

Burris XTR II 5-25, LT mount and ATLAS bipod are on the truck for delivery today.

Better?


Attached File





Don't do 2 rapid fire mags in succession shooting steel....you'll fuze the cover to your suppressor.  Didn't notice this until I pulled the suppressor out today to make sure everything was kosher with the brake on the 260 barrel. Kinda disappointed. I guess that's what you get with Texas heat.

Attached File

Much Better!

I'm back from the range and testing some loads with the Hornady 130gr ELD-Ms and the Nosler 123gr Custom Competition HPBT.  I tested both H4350 and Varget.  I was specifically looking for loads that showed the least vertical dispersion, hopefully equating to better long-range performance. I'm still analyzing the velocities, but here are the results from today's range trip. The highlighted loads had the least vertical dispersion of the lot, of course, not counting the factory stuff.

Dhutch I think if you go directly to Armageddons web site you will see they offer a high temp version for those of us who do full mag dumps for shits and giggles.
Pete

Was this the rifle you were going to try the A2 stock on?

Well, I planned to get a range trip in this morning before starting the 4th of July celebrations. Thunderstorms are thwarting my plans so far.

D3 thanks for keeping the thread going. The information is great and I look forward reading everything that is being contributed.


Fr8dog

Negative, I bought the new PRS for my OBR heavy and just don't think it's worst $250. I was shooting .25" and .3" groups with the A2 stock. So...if anyone needs/wants a black PRS gen 3, I'll let it go for a pretty good price.

Thanks for the heads up! I bought this direct from LT before they even had them listed on their website. Good to know Armageddon gear as them on their website now.

I'm just pissed it can't make it through a couple strings of shooting groups and then 2 mags of shooting steel at 200-325. I didn't take any up close pics but some of the paracord was melted down into little lines of brown plastic.

It looks like Quantico will be open Saturday for long range: 600, 800 and 1000.   I think I'll drag the rifles out and see what I can do.  I need to make a new steel target holder though, maybe some version of rebar.

I also loaded up some of the loads that showed some promise yesterday and hope to get them out tomorrow morning before the wife hits me with more chores.

Thanks to everyone for sticking with the thread, it looks like we crossed 30,000!  We'll see what we can continue to do, especially now that the 6.5Gs are being released.    

ETA - I have 30 pieces of primed brass so I think I load some 140's to the velocities FRB reported and see what happens.

My .260 barrel comes in tomorrow

Spent today working on positional shooting with my tOBR, I can shoot a consistent sub moa group with it while prone, but don't ask me to hit a steel target off a barricade.  Lots of work to be done before I'm ready to take the .260 to a competition...

I looked back at the factory Hornady MVs and from those to the ones you set back to 2.750 you seem to have lessened the MV?

I would suspect most of us have the same problem.  MY groups that show vertical stringing are all me, it could be check weld, grip, shoulder, thumbing the rifle, etc., but they're me!  Good luck working out your positions.

Yes, I was surprised to see that drop in MV.  I can set some more back and take them out today and verify, but I suspect the factory load (2.793) is just into the lands a bit and maybe that's increasing pressure and thus MVs. If you go back in the thread and see where I was chambering some rounds to see if there was any tip deformation of the ELDs, you can see the ring on the projectile from touching the lands.

There's also a drop in MV when the bore is cold and clean. Fire some fouling shots and the barrel speeds right up.  I can chrono that again today also and see if it's consistent.

ETA - Range trip is a no-go.  Apparently they're building a new berm on the pistol side and didn't update the calendar to say the ranges were closed.  Looks like rain on Thursday so I may have to wait until Friday.  

That's an excellent note to make...

Obviously they were trying to achieve a pressure by using that OAL? What is the powder charge compared to say a prime or another factory load?

Something like the gorilla ammo that's slow, could theoretically be seated to a longer OAL closer to the lands for better performance.

Not sure this means much as they are two different cartridges but my 6.5x47 build and my buddies 6.5x47 build both were loaded with the bullet .010" into the lands. Two different barrels with two different builders....but they'd both cut 1/4" groups all day long and could bang steel at 1000yd with decent wind calls. This was using 130gr JLK VLD bullets. From my experience these 6.5 bullets like to be touching the lands.

Gas guns or bolt guns?

Doh! They were both bolt guns.