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Posted: 12/8/2016 3:18:50 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
Not even close. 50 BMG has 11, 000 FT/LBS at the muzzle 338LM has 5, 000 FT/LBS at the muzzle 50 BMG dwarfs 338LM And why does that matter in any context? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2016 6:23:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: roamin]
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RictusGrin:
And why does that matter in any context? It has 220% more energy and you want me to explain why it matters? I think it's pretty self-explanatory. Better yet how about you explain why wouldn't it? |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 6:30:55 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
Why wouldn't it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
Originally Posted By RictusGrin:
And why does that matter in any context? Why wouldn't it? The point I was getting at is that, past a certain point, the rifle and round just get too big. 50 is bigger, no doubt but IMO, 338 is where "too big to be enjoyable" starts. Just my view. My opinion is tainted by having to climb too many stairs and ladders with gear. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2016 8:43:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: roamin]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FedDC:
The point I was getting at is that, past a certain point, the rifle and round just get too big. 50 is bigger, no doubt but IMO, 338 is where "too big to be enjoyable" starts. Just my view. My opinion is tainted by having to climb too many stairs and ladders with gear. That's surprising to hear, everyone at my range including me has payed the $20 to pull the trigger one time on the ranges 50BMG usually gets up smiling afterwards and they often mention how it wasn't that bad. Sounds more like a 50BMG won't work out for you for whatever reason. Which is understandable we all have our different priorities when buying firearms. However your priorities that purtain to you and you alone do not mean that 338LM is the equivalent to 50BMG. More like 338LM is the closest you can get to a 50BMG. 338LM much is closer to 300WM than 50BMG. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 10:22:45 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
It has 220% more energy and you want me to explain why it matters? I think it's pretty self-explanatory. Better yet how about you explain why wouldn't it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
Originally Posted By RictusGrin:
And why does that matter in any context? It has 220% more energy and you want me to explain why it matters? I think it's pretty self-explanatory. Better yet how about you explain why wouldn't it? Matters for what? In what context? Brawndo? You're the one making it out to be important, but wanting me to do the justifying for you. That's not how it works. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 10:25:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
That's surprising to hear, everyone at my range including me has payed the $20 to pull the trigger one time on the ranges 50BMG usually gets up smiling afterwards and they often mention how it wasn't that bad. Sounds more like a 50BMG won't work out for you for whatever reason. Which is understandable we all have our different priorities when buying firearms. However your priorities that purtain to you and you alone do not mean that 338LM is the equivalent to 50BMG. More like 338LM is the closest you can get to a 50BMG. 338LM much is closer to 300WM than 50BMG. Things are beginning to make sense now. So, how about that 308 question? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2016 11:22:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: roamin]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RictusGrin:
Things are beginning to make sense now. So, how about that 308 question? Like it was me that brought up 338LM and 50BMG? Are things making sense now? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2016 11:30:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: roamin]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RictusGrin:
Matters for what? In what context? Brawndo? You're the one making it out to be important, but wanting me to do the justifying for you. That's not how it works. If you're unsure how that much extra energy is usefull in long range shooting. I don't think that its reasonable for me to have to cover enough information to help you in just one post. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 11:42:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TeeRex]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
If you're unsure how that much extra energy is usefull in long range shooting. I don't think that its reasonable for me to have to cover enough information to help you in just one post. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
Originally Posted By RictusGrin:
Matters for what? In what context? Brawndo? You're the one making it out to be important, but wanting me to do the justifying for you. That's not how it works. If you're unsure how that much extra energy is usefull in long range shooting. I don't think that its reasonable for me to have to cover enough information to help you in just one post. Tell me how many 50's were used in the king of two mile competition? That is also a whole other argument talking about mostly short action long range cartridges. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 12:12:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
If you're unsure how that much extra energy is usefull in long range shooting. I don't think that its reasonable for me to have to cover enough information to help you in just one post. Oh, my. So, what do you think of 308 Win and its value in your ammo inventory? |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 12:16:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TeeRex:
I think you're totally missing the point here. For my purposes energy is probably the last thing I care about when I look at ballistics, and is likely a byproduct of other things I want. Tell me how many 50's were used in the king of two mile competition? That is also a whole other argument talking about mostly short action long range cartridges. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TeeRex:
Originally Posted By roamin:
Originally Posted By RictusGrin:
Matters for what? In what context? Brawndo? You're the one making it out to be important, but wanting me to do the justifying for you. That's not how it works. If you're unsure how that much extra energy is usefull in long range shooting. I don't think that its reasonable for me to have to cover enough information to help you in just one post. Tell me how many 50's were used in the king of two mile competition? That is also a whole other argument talking about mostly short action long range cartridges. Good points, speaking to issues related to the value of 308 relative to other short action options, too. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 12:51:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
If you're unsure how that much extra energy is usefull in long range shooting. I don't think that its reasonable for me to have to cover enough information to help you in just one post. Um... okay. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 12:56:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
That's surprising to hear, everyone at my range including me has payed the $20 to pull the trigger one time on the ranges 50BMG usually gets up smiling afterwards and they often mention how it wasn't that bad. Sounds more like a 50BMG won't work out for you for whatever reason. Which is understandable we all have our different priorities when buying firearms. However your priorities that purtain to you and you alone do not mean that 338LM is the equivalent to 50BMG. More like 338LM is the closest you can get to a 50BMG. 338LM much is closer to 300WM than 50BMG. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
Originally Posted By FedDC:
The point I was getting at is that, past a certain point, the rifle and round just get too big. 50 is bigger, no doubt but IMO, 338 is where "too big to be enjoyable" starts. Just my view. My opinion is tainted by having to climb too many stairs and ladders with gear. That's surprising to hear, everyone at my range including me has payed the $20 to pull the trigger one time on the ranges 50BMG usually gets up smiling afterwards and they often mention how it wasn't that bad. Sounds more like a 50BMG won't work out for you for whatever reason. Which is understandable we all have our different priorities when buying firearms. However your priorities that purtain to you and you alone do not mean that 338LM is the equivalent to 50BMG. More like 338LM is the closest you can get to a 50BMG. 338LM much is closer to 300WM than 50BMG. Man, you're getting ripped off. The tourist ranges here only charge $13/round to sling .50s into the dirt. |
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Posted: 12/8/2016 8:17:19 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm heavily vested in .308. I have some high end .308s I've been using since way before the newer cartridges came about.
Given the time and effort I have expended in tailoring my loads for these individual rifles, the expense in precision dies to load those tailored loads and my familiarity with them on the range...I'm hard pressed to go with something new. Finding the time to repeat the above with a new caliber would be difficult. I'm content to stay within 1000 yards and know my range dope without having to re-learn it - all just to replace something that ain't broke. YMMV. 
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2016 8:21:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: roamin]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TeeRex:
I think you're totally missing the point here. For my purposes energy is probably the last thing I care about when I look at ballistics, and is likely a byproduct of other things I want. Tell me how many 50's were used in the king of two mile competition? That is also a whole other argument talking about mostly short action long range cartridges. Here's a quote from accurate shooter regarding the KO2M competition. Seems I'm not missing any points at all. The KO2M competition will belong to CT's rather than BMG's and LM's anyway. The comparison we're making thus far has been between 50BMG and 338LM not 50BMG and CT. "There were quite a few big .50 Cals on the line" |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/8/2016 8:33:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: roamin]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman:
Man, you're getting ripped off. The tourist ranges here only charge $13/round to sling .50s into the dirt. Overcharged $7. That's it!!! I'm writhing my congressman in protest. |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 10:39:14 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
Here's a quote from accurate shooter regarding the KO2M competition. Seems I'm not missing any points at all. The KO2M competition will belong to CT's rather than BMG's and LM's anyway. The comparison we're making thus far has been between 50BMG and 338LM not 50BMG and CT. "There were quite a few big .50 Cals on the line" This thread started about rounds that fit in an RPR |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 12/9/2016 1:44:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: roamin]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TeeRex:
I'm well aware of how ballistics work. Now you're just twisting words. I suppose I should have said 50 BMG. This thread started about rounds that fit in an RPR The KO2M competition is a very newly formed event in my experience following any type of new sports or sporting events it takes a couple of years for the event to mature. We will get some solid data out of the event in due time but at this point we'll have to wait to see it. The problem is that we do not have several years of results of the event to pull data from, only I believe 1yr which could have been a fluke. It is worth noting that the competition was won by the AB team using a .375 Leathal a cartridge which is supersonic up to 2750 yards. However Randy Powell's score placed him just behind the AB team at the end of the 1st day untill he fell behind with equipment issues with his 50BMG (I better mention that it was BMG otherwise someone may claim it wasn't) a cartridge which is supersonic to 3, 200 yards. Its also worth noting that the AB team will have big money backing from both AB and Berger, the others at the competition last year not as much. The AB team did win the competition however the AB team wasn't able to touch the 3375 yard target and only managed 4 hits on the 2477 yard target and 3 hits on the 2011 yard target. So, not even the 400gr Berger custom .375 projo, which was tested days before on the NRA range to come up with a custom drag curve, was the winning hand. I have to wonder if next year will yeld different results due to the 50BMG's longer supersonic flight range, over the other cartridges. And yes this thread did start on 308 and alternatives we should steer it back |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 3:57:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By roamin:
Snip... And yes this thread did start on 308 and alternatives we should steer it back That being the case, and since I've shot enough BMG to be bored if it, which caliber for the RPR? 308? |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 4:43:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RictusGrin:
That being the case, and since I've shot enough BMG to be bored if it, which caliber for the RPR? 308? Wow! Even if you're not getting ripped off like Roamin, that still must have cost you a fortune! |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 4:54:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RictusGrin:
That being the case, and since I've shot enough BMG to be bored if it, which caliber for the RPR? 308? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RictusGrin:
Originally Posted By roamin:
Snip... And yes this thread did start on 308 and alternatives we should steer it back That being the case, and since I've shot enough BMG to be bored if it, which caliber for the RPR? 308? There's a case being made for the super heavy .30s giving the .308 an advantage on par with the 6.5s, but only in wind drift. I think anyone who's been exposed to both, sufficiently, will pick a 6.5 or 6mm, both because they're easier to shoot, and cheaper to load for. |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 4:54:40 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BigeasySnow:
Wow! Even if you're not getting ripped off like Roamin, that still must have cost you a fortune! Baby girl, I've sent you many a photo of me gunning with ball, API and SLAP (just not in the M107, because it won't chamber) in far away places, and I've never made you shoot that silly 308. Only 6.5C for my baby rabbit. 
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Posted: 12/9/2016 4:59:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman:
There's a case being made for the super heavy .30s giving the .308 an advantage on par with the 6.5s, but only in wind drift. I think anyone who's been exposed to both, sufficiently, will pick a 6.5 or 6mm, both because they're easier to shoot, and cheaper to load for. 6mm it the tits, but there's a barrel life issue with it. The 6.5mm is the compromise. Since I make my own 6.5C brass from all the free 308 brass, it's not even a question as to which I prefer. I've done good work with 308, and better work with MK 262 due to exposure time, but I'm not about to shoot 308 on my own time and own dime. |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 5:08:05 PM EDT
[#24]
The only reason I can see for going with 308 in a PR nowadays is logistics, readily available factory match ammo. I would not be a bad idea to have a PR in that caliber but I would consider it a second line choice (like a 1911 for a pistol...heh!)
I am going to buy a Ruger PR soon and it will be a 6.5 creed. Flatter shooting, better BC, easier to get hits with, what's not to love? My 308 usage will be limited to my 7.62 NATO battle rifle collection because my FAL gives me a freedom-boner when I shoot it. |
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Posted: 12/9/2016 5:08:11 PM EDT
[#25]
I like .308 because ammo is everywhere, .40cpr brass cased rock blasting ammo is available, barrel life is great, terminal performance on deer, bear, moose is good. AP is easily accessible for when skynet becomes self aware. I'll have plenty of ammo for when I buy a shuffs mini g in .308. And I'm not a good enough shot to tell the difference in any cartridge inside 500 yards.
Sure there are better rounds out there but none as well rounded for my uses. |
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Posted: 12/11/2016 9:14:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Forever and always, well at least until the US and NATO do not use it as a std cartridge.
Even if that does happen, it will be long after my death before any 'shortage' would be of concern. We are still digging up surplus .30-06. Some may question (with reason) that there was a better cartridge in development than the 7.62x51 during it's adoption as NATO's and the US std round, however finding one person to discredited it's battlefield worthiness and innate accuracy would be like pissing up a rope laying on your back |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 1/20/2017 10:55:55 PM EDT
[#27]
Since I'm not doing competition where the newer stuff has advantages, 308 is likely to have a solid home for a long time. It's big enough for almost anything I might do, but inexpensive enough to load for that I can put a lot of rounds down range. Long barrel life, cheaper ammo, shares some bullets with my 300BLK, and I already own it.
Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of times I look at some of the zippy modern calibers and think, "damn, it'd sure be nice to have one of those for all those breezy days" but not enough to plunk down enough money for it to matter. I have a feeling that what will happen is I'll find a used R700 in a decent stock that someone traded in because they can't shoot it well and blame it on the gun. I'll get it rebarreled in 6.5C or something similar and spend the next year working on loads and relearning wind and drops. The Savage 308 will stick around for punching steel and other general fun stuff. For what it cost me it is a ridiculously accurate rifle and I'm in no hurry to spend a bundle just to cut the wind a bit better. I don't shoot far enough that the other benefits come into play. Heck, 2/3 of the time I shoot PR it's a 223 anyway, just to keep the costs down while I practice fundamentals. |
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Posted: 1/21/2017 1:08:02 AM EDT
[#28]
I have a few rifles in .308, and don't see that changing anytime too soon. One is a gorgeous CZ550 Satin Luxe that will remain a nice deer rifle and hand-me-down. It's a wood lottery winner and would be darn near impossible to replace if I sold it. It would not be cost effective to re-barrel it, and .308 will do everything I need it to out to realistic hunting ranges.
The other is a Remington 700 I recently acquired. It's been bedded to a Manners T6A and Badger M5 DBM, and is overall nicely equipped for what I paid. I may plan to re-barrel this one to 6.5CM, and I might do a ground up build for my 6.5. Heck, I may just grab an RPR to fill that slot, we'll have to see. But for an easy round to learn on, both for shooting and reloading, that's pretty easy on the wallet (twice the barrel life of 6.5 and ammo's pretty cheap if you wait for sales), it's hard to pass up. So while I may becone good enough to need an upgrade to a 6mm or 6.5mm to compete in PRS type matches some day, I'd dare say the .308 will always have a home in my safe, in one way or another. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2017 8:04:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FedDC:
338 is like owning a 50 cal. 308 W is 1/2 of a 338LM 338 LM is 1/2 of a 50 MBG. |
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Posted: 1/25/2017 7:27:21 PM EDT
[#30]
probably never really get rid of it, I just don't shoot my .308's nearly as much anymore. Got a couple .260's and a .223 I shoot a lot more....
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Posted: 1/27/2017 9:16:42 AM EDT
[#31]
Had to sell a rifle to fund a 338 LM. Either 6.5 creedmoor or my 308 bolt. Creedmoor lost. My 338 LM will take care of my long distance shooting while my 308 will handle under 1000 yards. Reload for my AR10 so the 308 had to stay. The 308 is a good all around rifle.
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Posted: 1/27/2017 6:40:33 PM EDT
[#32]
I just bought another 308 barrel for my AIAT today. I love that people are flocking to the 6.5's because it means cheap barrels for me
This makes spare takeoff barrel #3 now for a combined cost of barely over that of a single Bartlein/etc. barrel in something other than 308. For my shooting 308 does what I need it to and I save a shitload of money on barrels. |
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Posted: 1/27/2017 6:42:18 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jlficken:
I just bought another 308 barrel for my AIAT today. I love that people are flocking to the 6.5's because it means cheap barrels for me
This makes spare takeoff barrel #3 now for a combined cost of barely over that of a single Bartlein/etc. barrel in something other than 308. For my shooting 308 does what I need it to and I save a shitload of money on barrels. If you are burning out .308 barrels in a bolt gun on a regular basis, you are a monster! |
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Posted: 1/27/2017 6:51:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Firestarter123]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALARAK:
If you are burning out .308 barrels in a bolt gun on a regular basis, you are a monster! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALARAK:
Originally Posted By jlficken:
I just bought another 308 barrel for my AIAT today. I love that people are flocking to the 6.5's because it means cheap barrels for me
This makes spare takeoff barrel #3 now for a combined cost of barely over that of a single Bartlein/etc. barrel in something other than 308. For my shooting 308 does what I need it to and I save a shitload of money on barrels. If you are burning out .308 barrels in a bolt gun on a regular basis, you are a monster! I'm not (wish I was) but I figure there is a guy that has 120K+ rounds thru his AIAW so when I can pick up a takeoff 24" AT barrel for $260 shipped I would be stupid not too 
You can't even buy a good blank for $260 anymore and LW barrels are good quality in my experience. I figure I have enough barrels for a long, long time now but I will still buy them if I see them cheap. It's a sickness I tell ya 
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Posted: 1/27/2017 7:48:42 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jlficken:
I just bought another 308 barrel for my AIAT today. I love that people are flocking to the 6.5's because it means cheap barrels for me
This makes spare takeoff barrel #3 now for a combined cost of barely over that of a single Bartlein/etc. barrel in something other than 308. For my shooting 308 does what I need it to and I save a shitload of money on barrels. Where at that price? |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 2/14/2017 12:28:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: STRIKE504]
[#36]
Working on putting together an AR10 in 6.5CM. I have an FN SPR in .308 that shoots .5-.7 moa groups at 100, so for now I'll keep it as is for the closer stuff. Will eventually rebarrel to 6.5 or 6mm though.
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Posted: 2/17/2017 8:40:42 AM EDT
[#37]
I have turned my bolt action 308 into a hunting gun. It started as a Rem Varmint 308. Now it is a east coast whitail gun (in my mind the perfet solution).
Barrel chopped and threaded at 20 inches, Still shooting way under 1/2 moa with my loads, Omega on the end, manners EH1 stock, and S&B 3-20 on top. This guy is handy and ready to take shots from 25yds to as far as I can see. 
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/19/2017 5:52:37 PM EDT
[#38]
OP, don't settle... you need both!
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