zip ties. drop the flex cuffs . to much bs entailed to cuff someone. disarm,let them go or SSS.

think of it this way. your bugging out on foot..that means its gone to shit sammich all you can eat real fast. get to your point B..then worry about cuff's.  fight where you can....on the move with wife/kid is not the best way....



 

Protus nice to meet you, this my favorite thread.
i posted this in a seperate thread( NOOB 2 questions for BOB) and explained for safety transitioning from A to B if you run into someone who is a liability (will follow you/ rob you of supplies ....or worse) although i say i would do what i had to i really don't want to hurt someone if i didn't have to. And have what i consider enough experience to restrain someone(hopefully) to cuff them and leave them behind with peace of mind that they are not following me. to me the zip cuffs are more important before i get to B considering my defense capabilities will multiply about 4 times after i am there.Yes i am well armed  but taking someone out because i had to (because they were not prepared and i was) sux.

Sorry NOOB what is  SSS???

what do you suggest when confronted, with a family and a 5 year old just running like hell would be impossible

like others not to get derailed into morality of it all but SSS shoot,shovel..shut up.



it may not be that they are "less " prepared than you. they just chose a different path. or lets say "plan" for shtf.



killing things suck in general. i hunt, ive killed all sorts of 4 legged yummy critters..pulling the trigger is not so much an issue imho. yes remorse does suck...and can eat at you....even more so if you think that maybe the guy that jumps out from behind a wood shed with a wild eyed look screaming give me your pack while aiming a firearm  at you,wife and kid may just be in the same boat. afraid,,stressed,,tired ,hungry and may have family of his own.....



but thats the "path" he chose,,,from not preparing..to deciding he would draw down on you and yours for what you have.



kinda reminds me of the theme of the saintly good guys in westerns when having to shoot a bad guy..and still give the dying would be baddie a smoke/water//last words etc  think true grit in the cabin....or many other films " i aint killed anybody that didnt need killing..."



prep ,,to protect you and yours...your a father..husband..there is no second chance if the events are that bad....your just passing thru the shit sammich line..let the others sit and dine on what they crave.



now..that i derailed my own thread lmao
 

AND I HOPE this is not just talk,BUT yes if they drew down on me i would just shoot them(i have said im not a bad ass but i really hope i would not hesitate to shoot someone)and move on. i know if it was us or them then i would. the reason i am so indecisive is that i obviously i haven't killed someone before and realize saying and doing big diff.

Let me help ge this thread back on track for you. just picked this up off amazon



the kick ass Ontario sp8- if you haven't tried it you should  



about 2 minutes and this went down. not knocking a good saw but for a chopper/knife/get it done tool at a pound and a 1/4 inch thick for 48.00 with shipping included im loving it. wanted a becker bk3 but couldn't afford it

ANYONE have or use this in their system??

lol. its good man. most is all talk till its put to practice...just like BOBS...loads of talk about them but how many actaully have hiked any distance with them.



i stopped carrying big heavy knives in my kits(used to carry a bk7) and a cane cutter /heavy machete think big meat cleaver.

even now im on the lets carry a small axe/hatchet but again weight comes into play.

i wonder how much/many of these top notch systems get used. alot of  these pictures show items that to me are too expensive to buy in pairs and l can not see any visible wear on  anything. so yea i wonder if i could organize something local to practice using some of these items and learning off each other doing things like going on a hike or practicing how to make a lean to or shelter, fires etc.......who would show up? there  are some great people here. we kind of owe it to ourselves to influence each other ......right? yea wrong thread for this i know.

a nice fixed blade, the sp8 and a sven saw is alot weight but leaves me feeling capable.

you wont know till you host it. i hosted hikes 2-3 times a year till recently(injury/work etc). turn out would be 8-15 people(hikers and non hikers).

you just have to try and get it rolling.



lots of the kits are used in some form or another...i use my kit for backpacking/camping so my stuff gets used rotated a few times here and there.



 

Nice......i didn't know the guys here did that. need a lttle more time squaring myself and my system away and i just might.

Best research you can do. Everything looks good and useful on the store shelf or in a thread. Wasn't until I started getting out in the hills using my BOB stuff instead of camp conveniences that I learned how badly I had screwed up in gear planning.  Now I have piles of stuff that I thought I wanted, but turned out to be useless or worse than useless.

About the only recreational camping stuff I carry anymore is a Kelty tent. And protus is about to yell at me for not using a tarp!



Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

thanks for the advice guys

What i see a lot of the times is people get these huge bags, then spend hundreds of dollars of filling it.  the bug out bag is meant to sustain you for 3 days, eve heard of 72 hour kit?  Anyways, when you are planning on using your bag to bug out long term, that then turn into an I.N.C.H bag, (Im Never Coming Home). so really, i think a lot of people mistake inch bags for bug out bags, because well, my bug out bag at home is a small little patrol pack loaded with 3 days of gear, and my INCH bag is an EBERLESTOCK phantom, so you decide which one im taking on long term sustainment ;)

I think a lot of people pack for somewhere in between "food and shelter for 3 days" and "forever."
(Yeah, quite a few people just throw a bunch of gear in a bag and call it good.)

Personally I learned the hard way, utilizing tornadoes lol.  The first tornado I basically ran to the shelter area with what would equate to a range bag.  So in hard hail with, no power and 3 soaking wet kids, we had a couple bottles of water, a couple diapers and enough ammo and mags to pretend the tornado was an enemy invasion or some crap.  All in a 50lb package.  Everyone was still cold and wet, hungry and I had an hours worth of a weapon light.  

The next one was more of a 7 day bag with a weeks worth of MREs, 3 or 4 sources each of fire, light and water, way too many tools, some ponchos, hats and gloves and huge first aid kit.  Even some freaking climbing rope strapped to it.  And this bag was around 80lbs.  It was obviously more of a fantasy apocalypse bag, only it would have sucked almost as bad for that as it did when we needed to bug out again.  It was damn near impossible to get in and out of tight spots and I looked ridiculous when got to the shelter area.  Not to mention it slowed me down so much that I ended up covered in welts from the hail and the truck sounded like it was going through ambush alley.  The giant thing put us all at risk and still left everyone cold and wet with the exception of fresh hats and socks combined with foil emergency blankets.  To top it off the truck took enough of a beating that I had to walk the bag home and leave it for insurance.

The current bag is 2 grey ghost gear assault packs.  It’s small enough to be strapped to body armor so it's a perfect size for me and my wife to inconspicuously carry one each.  We use 2, one as a vehicle bag and a second one to supplement that in a bug out situation.  I think I actually posted the first iteration of it on here a while ago.  I'll find it and cut and paste it here.  

Basically I learned the hard way that bugging out may not be a fantasy zombie thing.  It's fun to plan and build that crap but it's not fun when you're hauling ass to get your family to safety and you realized you fucked up your one job which was to be prepared to safeguard them.  It's honestly lucky I got a chance to learn those lessons.  During that second tornado quite a few people didn't come out.  One guy actually died on top of his wife and kids with a punctured lung shielding them, another was trying to rush supplies to the basement and got stuck at the top of the steps.  It sucked and I felt like an ass because I was ready for some sort of zombie horde when I knew my threats were floods and tornadoes.

I do have a big bag for when I'm never coming back.  It's an Eberlestock Terminator.  It's also got clips to accept one of the Grey Ghost packs.  It doubles as my long term hiking/camping bag since those lessons helped me learn that if I'm ganna buy an $800 bag, I better be a little more realistic about my use for it.

Since this BoB thread began, there has been a lot of valuable debate in various forums about different types of BoBs. A GHB or INCH bag for example. One thing to think about is your circumstances. I am currently back working in Phoenix again, and if the SHTF, I'd have to make it home to Sedona, a trip of approximately 150 miles. I am not getting any younger either, (just turned 52) and am not in as good a shape as I used to be in truthfully. (I used to hike every sunday with a small 25# pack when I lived in Colorado - great exercise, and exactly what this forum is suggesting.)

Hiking in the heat here in Phoenix is problematic for me, the main problem being that I'm now heat-stroke sensitive and just plain lazy. This does not bode well for me if I really do need to hike 150 miles through desert. Water at 8.3333 pounds is the primary issue. That being said, I need to carry the lightest pack with the most water I can and plan my resupply points carefully. For most 'bug-out' duties such as this, a classic 3-day or 'assault pack' is perfect, no more than 2500 cubes. Mine is an older green Blackhawk, and I'm now planning on carrying nothing much more than a woobie, fleece, a way to make fire, a few easy to prepare food items, water, a knife and a handgun. I will be changing back to the SIG because it is lighter to carry than the 1911. I would like to add a compact .22LR rifle however.

This is not my INCH bag, and frankly, my home up north is my BOL. I do realize after being evacuated a few years back due to a fire, that it's possible that I would need to leave, but my INCH bag is still not as big as most. It's a simple fact that one person cannot carry everything they will need for an extended trip, which is why the US military uses helicopters, trucks etc. There will be no resupply under TEOTWAWKI circumstances, so being prepared to simply do with less and working on your primitive survival skills and plant recognition skills seems like a no-brainer to me. Rambo fantasies aside, if you ever really needed that INCH pack, you would be one sorry SOB in a few days. Long term survival is not just a physical problem, it's a psychological one as well.

Mine is more of a get home bag.

The black one is my "always in truck" bag.
Spare shirt and socks.
IPOK individual patrol officers kit. with cat-tq and some other things. (big first aid kit in truck already)
2 mags for ar        lighter
4 for glock             spare aa and cr123 batts
Headlamp            garmin eTrex 20 gps
Fenix light             Brunton Inspire 3200 mAh Rechargeable Battery
gloves                   garbage back to stick whole bag in so it stays dry whereever i stick it.
cliff bars                zippo fire starter
bottle of water      leatherman
surefire earplugs


5.11 12 pack that i put in for trips to get home



Nice med kit from old grouch
Broken down mre's     Eagles Nest Outfitters DoubleNest Hammock
gerber LMF II Infantry Knife               Esbit 3-Piece Cookset
MSR MiniWorks    More socks
box of .40 golden saber.
Platypus bottles
Cameback bladder
bunch of other random stuff I forgot about.

I keep jackets, more ammo, long gun, and other boots in truck at all times.
Any suggestions?

Need some pack advice.

Looking between the Eberlestock Gunslinger or Gunslinger 2.

Want some of your opinions.  The Version 2 has some updates to the design but it weighs about 2lbs more and $40 more...

Do you feel front access vs side access and the other updates justify the extra cost and weight?

I know everyone's list of important things is different but so far (just getting started) mine consists of wanting to put together a 3day bag that could carry my 10" AR and would be interested in others opinion



Eberlestock Tactical Packs.

If you break that SBR down, it will fit into a very small bag. If you have it in a pack, an extra couple seconds won't likely make a difference. The key is knowing when to pull it out. My 11.5" pistol fits in a duffel bag nicely broken down. Very low key.

Thats all well and good, but Im interested in this pack because it keeps the rifle separate from your gear.  The bag might double as a camping/ hunting/ range bag and I love the option of keeping the dirty / greasy rifle separate from my gear in the built in scabbard.    

Im pretty well sold on one of these two packs, but just trying to decide between the two.

 

lol well cost isnt an issue i was just using it to stress a point... if Version 2 is that much better is it worth the extra weight and extra cash...  I mean $40 in the grand scheme of things isnt much but if I dont need to spend it I wont and ill put it towards other things I need.

I'd like to add that I love under armor "heat gear" for hot and humid weather, it wicks away moisture very quickly keeping me dry, much better than cotton.

I have 2 single burners and I have liked them and when I travel in winter one is in each 4x4.

I have a question about ammo. My BOB stays in my truck a majority of the time and I'm curious to how much ammo and/or magazines I should keep in it? I'm not sure how much I can legally carry.

I have never heard of a law that says you can only have a certain amount of ammo.

My truck gun is a Glock 19. I have 4, 15 round magazines for it in my GHB. My thinking is you should have enough ammo to get you home to your primary weapon but keep it reasonable so if you have to ditch the bag you can still carry it.

Having 5,000 rounds of 9mm in my GHB wouldn't do me any good.

Awesome, that's exactly what I needed to know. Thank you!

I like having either a couple mags or a box or 2 "food savered" in my bag in addition to what I carry. Its not adding a ton of weight but atleast if my primary mags/ammo is either destroyed or becomes un usable (dropping mag in with ammo soaking in something) I have something and the food saver is offering an addition protection. But as I sad a few. Since my Delta Elite is my primary I usually have 4 mags wrapped. Im starting to switch to my PPQ be lowering it to two mags more ammo but about same space taken.

I must say this thread gave me a ton of ideas I never would have thought of. Read all of it all 7 years of it!

Finally have a Friday off so I will do my first test with my I guess half way completed BOB this weekend at the lake. And Sunday evening I will post my list so far.

Thanks Protus for starting this.

I got a little side tracked with blisters from Nike shoes and work. but there is what I have.
I am currently in the market for some hiking boots

-Pack
Cabela's bitter root 48 (saving for an up grade to Eberlestock G4 Operator)

-H2O
2 Nalgene 32oz narrow mouth bottles
2L Platypus soft bottle
water purification drops (I meant to buy the tablets)
saving for..
MSR sweetwater filter

-Food & food prep
Snow Peak 600 (I think)
Esbit stove and extra fuel cubes
Gsi cup
optimus spork
P-38 can opener
I would like to have a 2 MREs torn down
2-3 mountain house

-Clothing
need to get Arcteryx Rampart Pants, 2 hiking shirts, and 3 pair smart wool socks
ideas on hiking shirts would be greatly appreciated
now I just use jeans and cotton shirts and socks

-Shelter & bedding
Kelty salida 2
5'x7' tarp
therma-a-rest ground mat (looking for a softer one)
SoL Mylar emergency blanket
70% wool blanket
need a mil-spec poncho and liner and a sleeping bag ideas would be great live in north Tx.

-Fire
UCO match kit had 25 matches (I have 3 extra "refills")
Ferrocenium rod
Bic lighter or 2
wet fire tinder (this stuff is cheating)

-FAK
adventure medical kit ultralight .9 still need to add to this basic fak

-Hygiene
toothbrush and paste
hotel soaps
colman compressed towels
deodorant

-Tools
Morakniv carbon steel knife
U-dig-it (small trowel)
Gerber gator machete full size (thinking about going to the Jr.)
Winchester multi-tool (want to get the leatherman mut)
need to get BK 2

-Lighting
PTEC Byte red, 3/4 power, and full power.
UCO 9 hr candle lantern
Maglite mini
cheap 9 led light

-Communication
GP-5DSP fm stereo/mw sw county comm

-Protection
side arm
modern sporting rifle
would like to get the Ruger td 22

-Mics Supplies
200' 550 paracord
fishing kit (need ideas and put together)
sewing kit
red white and blue bandana
lockpicks
shemagh
duct tape wrapped around gift card

I know I am forgetting some stuff but that's all for now. I have thick skin so, if need be just call me an idiot and to start over


*EDIT* Bought an Osprey Aether 70 Pack so I can still go camping while saving for the G4 operator.

I've had nothing but good luck with Merrells. Try them.

Ok I will when I get the funds. A good friend told me the same thing I have read that they are both the best and also the worst boots, but these are reviews so idk if they are all that reliable. I really need to save for a pair. Thanks

Just starting to put together some supplies and ordered this hand crank radio.
http://www.nrastore.com/nrastore/ProductDetail.aspx?c=3376&p=SA%2022820

Has many features that would come in handy. I will probably buy the bigger version of this when the money becomes available.

I'm going to have to strip mine out and write down what all is in mine so I can get some help shaving the weight down.  Not getting rid of the wool blanket though.  I'm a southern boy stuck behind enemy lines in Ohio.

LOL...I went up Kilimanjaro this summer with a group from AZ ( I'm from New England) I spent most of the climb in shorts and a lite jacket, while the rest of the group was bundled up in near winter gear. kept tellin' em that it was like a spring day for me

I do better than my wife who is Native to this place. Haven't quite figured that one out.

My bag is an IBLE 2nd Gen

Current winter load out
Detachable top:

My shemagh
Old USGI woodland tarp
Red bandana for signaling
50ft OD 550 cord
25ft ACU duct tape
Brown wash cloth
1/3 roll to let paper flattened.
Two large climbing rated caribeners
Exterior:

3 liter coyote brown camel back
Old USGI shelter halves.  Both halves wrapped up together (I know I can replace these and save weight,  just haven't gotten there yet)

Main compartment:

Heavy duty leather gloves
Water bottle 1 liter
Canteen cup
USMC Kabar partially serrated
Leatherman Wave
Compass
Local maps
Sign mirror
Smith &  Wesson  M&P 9 with three mags
Coleman head lamp
Spare AAA batteries for head lamp and the Preon 2 I carry
Fire kit
First aid kit
Hygiene kit
Sewing kit
2 more 1/3 rolls of toilet paper
3 contractor heavy duty trash bags
50 ft 550
Roll of electrical tape
USGI wool blanket
USMC Poncho liner (this and the blanket are vacuum sealed in a space bag
Three trimmed down and vacuum sealed MREs
Spare clothes (spare pair of jeans, three pairs of socks, pair of boxers, set of long Johns top and bottom, extra long sleeve shirt, thin hoodie)

Critiques welcomed.

g4 operator
1pair thermals
1 fleece
1 5.11 pants
2 pairs socks
heavy glovea
winter hat
jet boil with 4 cubes
3 mountain house
1lb rice
surefire g2
8 AA batteries
8 cr123
4 AAA
hammock with rain fly and strap kit
2 magpuls
2 side arm mags
100rnd loose 5.56
admin pouch with compass, maps, chem lights, extra light and sealed metal fire and lighter

Besides the 2 packs I keep in my truck, I keep our camping bags loaded and ready to go in the house at all times. Its not meant to live out of. Just to make the journey to our bug out location.

My bag is currently in a winter configuration. I carry a much different load in the summer especial because I live in the Sonoran desert and carrying water is priority number one in the summertime. In the summer at low elevation given a choice between a sleeping bag and extra water, I would take the water every time.

My bag is just an old Molle II bag I got for next to nothing used.



We were camping close to 9000 ft on our last camping trip so this thing is pretty much packed with the kitchen sink approach. There is even a 2 man tent packed in it that my dog and I slept in together. It weighed in at a crushing 48 pounds.

One thing I don't hear people talking about it a pack for the dog



Besides his food, my dog carries 4 liters of water and his bedroll wrapped in a poncho.

Great thing about the dog, he can drink out of questionable water sources so I use most of the water that he carries

what dog pack is that.

mines running a smaller one , she carries 1 liter of h20,her food, and a ground shhet,, and 20ft of monkey/mule tape as a back up leash.

doggie bags,treats,chem light and reflective pt belt for when on the roads,

Not the poster, but it's a Mountainsmith pack - very well made, and comes in 2 sizes IIRC. I have one in the large size I hardly used - tried it on Taj and she hated it - kept running into stuff. I have it buried somewhere now that she's gone...

Yes, its the medium pack. here on amazon. I wish it was a little better made. Its typical civilian style and not up to mil spec use.

Still it works well. Just has a tendency to get stuck on the brush and I have to stop to readjust it on him more then I would like

i figure it was a mnt smith by the logo. didnt know they did dog rucks.

ours uses a  outward hound med size. i could maybe get 1.5 liters in there if i tried but havent over loaded her yet. figure to lash a ground sheet on the top like you did anyway.



tried putting protective boots onher the other day. now that was hilarious...least for me and the wife lol .

Excellent thread

Anyone know of a small to medium size pot/cateen that can boil water and be put directly on a fire? I want something to add to my BOB when I build it, but one thing I can't find is something to boil water in that I can place directly on a fire.

USGI canteen cup?


CD

 

thanks guys.

As far as FAK, are some of the "out of the box" kits pretty good? I found one, pretty pricey,but it looks like it would contain everything I need and I could add any little fillers I needed. It may be overkill, but it comes with the essentials, and a waterproof/sandproof bag.

1 x NAR CCRK® Squad Bag
5 x Pair Black Nitrile Trauma Gloves
2 x Nasopharyngeal Airway 28F with Lubricant
1 x Petrolatum Gauze (3 in. x 18 in.)
1 x HALO Chest Seal (2-pack)
1 x Celox Gauze
2 x Needle Decompression Kit (14 G x 3.25 in.)
2 x 6" Elastic Bandage
2 x Ab Pads (5" x 9")
2 x C-A-T® (Combat Application Tourniquet®)
4 x 6 in. Emergency Bandages
4 x PriMed Gauze™ (4.5 in. x 4.1 yd)
1 x ETD™ Abdominal Emergency Trauma Dressing
2 x SAM® Splint II
1 x NAR Saline Lock Kit
2x Triangular Bandages
1 x Trauma Shears (7.25 in.)
1 x Surgical Tape (2 in.)
1 x NAR Combat Casualty Reference Card
2 x Triage Card (NAR T2 Tag®)


   500D CORDURA® Solution-Dyed Nylon with Near Infrared Signature Reduction
   Ghillie-Tex IR signature reduction hardware
   Sand & water resistant, self-repairing zipper with silent 550 cord pulls
   Multiple-load carriage configuration capabilities: fanny pack, over the shoulder, attachments for 3-day assault packs and MOLLE style webbing
   Enhanced Hip Stabilization System for greater security during transport
   Trauma Shear Storage on Front for Quick Access

News to me - Why can't you put titanium directly on a fire? I've never heard this. I mean, they make titanium camping gear...

 

I just finished my first bug out bag  today. I have been a avid outdoors man all my life. I took some pictures of what I have so far. There is alot of better stuff on the market than what I have but I am going to have to start off slow.

If I can figure out how to post pictures I would really like some advice on how i can have a better bug out bag. I have them downloaded. I am going to try and update this with pictures.

When you make a post just hit the little picture icon under the box, 4th from the right, and put the URL of the picture into the box that pops up.

Post it up, you will get lots of good advice. Making a bag that works for you takes a lot of testing and I think multiple trips to the woods to get right. Basically they are like a camping bag for sustainment and quick travel.