Emergency O2, Resuscitator Bag, CPAP, O2 concentrators, etc

As applicable to SHTF

EDIT TO ADD  ---as well as emergencies during more 'normal' times...


Comments?


[Folks with TURF ISSUES, please start your own threads....  

You need to know how to use that stuff. I don't.

By the time you need to resuscitate a person there is generally an issue that is so severe that intensive medical treatment will be required IF the resuscitation is successful, and that's not often.

Supportive o2? More likely to be helpful in the event of serious respiratory infections. Still likely to need a higher level of medical care or recovery than you are able to provide.

The reality of a collapse of the medical system is a lot of people dying from currently treatable illness and injury with the attending heart ache.

i will start at the end of your list first. O2 concentrators are energy hogs and only "concentrate" very little. some claim as high as 93-95% O2 but i can tell you that is a serious stretch. i can take someone that is on 4lpm on one of them and put them on 2lpm medical O2 and have a serious increase in blood O2 saturation. they also require maintenance that most people cant do on their own add that to the price tag of one and needing a script for it, its not a good investment. CPAP, other than the thing a lot of people use to sleep, you couldnt supply it with enough O2 to keep a real CPAP machine working for more than a few hours at best. they are O2 HOGS. you also need the correct mask to fit whomever you are using it on and if you need CPAP you also need meds to treat why the person would need that type of CPAP in the first place. not something most will have access to plus you would need advanced care to deal with the underling cause. so really out of the question for most people. bag valve mask(Resuscitator Bag as you call it), probably the easiest thing to get on your list but still requires training to use correctly but still to be the most effective you need other supplies such as either an intibation kit or at least OPA's or NPA's but still without emergency care/911 intervention its a short term item as far as treatment. if you bag someone wrong you will be filling their stomach up with air which usually leads to vomiting and aspiration of the stomach contents. that is a VERY bad thing. and last but not least. O2. its pretty easy to get O2 if you have a wielding supply shop around the flip side is you will need a regulator and im not sure that regular medical regulators have the same thread pitch as wielding tanks have so you would have to custom make one but you would also probably need an inline filter just to be safe since you dont know what the inside of the tank looks like or what is in said tank. then you also need O2 delivery devices such as nasal canulas, mask, or non rebreather mask and you need to know the flow rate as well as a way to monitor O2 saturation. not that high flow O2 will kill someone in the short term but as with all things you want to treat to the point the PT is better but not that you are giving them to much . hope this helps a little.

FWIW.

About 25 years ago I made two flights across the country in three days. I got hit with a DVT, no symptoms. A couple days after the second flight a hunk of the blood clot breaks off and goes to my lungs. It hits the branches and blocks off all of my left lung and two thirds to three quarters of my right lung (I learn this later in the hospital). I'm in bed and I start having a problem getting enough air. Lots of breathing going on but no O2. Think beached fish.

Stupidly, I think I'll drive myself to the hospital (living alone out on the edge of the desert in AZ). I get outside and realize that if I have to stop and kneel down every two steps to rest, maybe it's time to call the ambulance. I'm closest to my work shop. I go in to use the phone and find out that it's not working. I didn't know it at the time but in getting dressed I had kicked over the phone laying on the floor next to my bed.

I'm getting weaker, having to rest more. I get the oxygen bottle on my welding rig flowing and start huffing right out of the mixing handle. This helps. I drag the bottle to my pickup, manage to get the bottle on the seat. I drive down the road to a neighbors house, honk the horn until he comes out. He drives me to the hospital. I live.

My doctor told me the O2 saved my life.

Disclaimer; Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited. Actual cash value of coupon $00.000000000001 USD.

Life lesson learned; If your body starts doing weird shit....DIAL 911 RTFN!!!!!!

I read the negative responses. Yeah, if the medical shit is hitting the fan, get the ambulance on the way, ab so fucking lutely. But, some times, help is not immediately available and having the means to self rescue, or aid another person can be handy.

Needless to say, I keep bottled O2 around now. Do I recommend playing doctor? Hell no! But if your back is against the wall it's nice to have options.

Shit! That's some scary MacGuyver shit right there. Glad it all worked out.

You have inspired me to get one of those small portable welding O2 bottles and a way to regulate and leave one in each vehicle and the house. I just thought about how I would get to my BIG O2 in the shed, and then it is chained up to boot.

 

Lot's of talk about welding grade O2...not recommended.

Spring for the extra couple bucks for ABO.  Welding O2 is not regulated for any contaminates like CO2 etc that can interrupt O2 absorbing into blood thus negating any positive impact you could have gained from O2. And you can still weld with ABO

medical oxygen regulator wont fot on welding oxygen bottle, different pin layout. id get a hold of an O2 bottle and most gas supply places will refill them, regulators can be had fairly cheap, as can delivery devices. keep in mind that a jumbo D cylinder will only run for a few mins at 15LPM.

additionally, id totally scrap the CPAP idea for the SHTF scenario for the aforementioned reasons, plus long term CPAP causes hypotension from increased intrathoracic pressure and that is a no-no for the long term.

Damn, my O2 tank is so freakin large, I'm doing good to move it around without a dolly. I don't think I could get it in the front seat of my truck even healthy.

American red cross teaches Administering emergency O2, take it, and make sure the 'enrichment" material is added as well encompass OPA's and NPA's and the manual suctioning.

Also you need a CPR-PRO course, it is the professional level CPR/AED course, which also includes BVM(another must)

I am an EMT as well as an instructor for ARC.

If you would just like the material for reading i can send you the digital copies of the course, if you do not want to take the formal courses(obviously i recommend taking the time to actually train and take the formal classes).

LMK

According to an Aviation Consumer article some years ago and Avweb, the O2 all comes from the same fractional distillation of liquefied air.

Personally, I wouldn't worry abt it ---at all...



That said, I don't mind others worrying abt stuff like this, or tetracycline becoming poisonous after expiry.

Huh???

A jumbo D holds 650 liters doesn't it?????

Smaller ones are made, check Craigs List and see if someone will fill it.

There's also ebay...

BTW, eBay Sellers have every O2 adapter you can imagine.

Also regulators, tanks, fill kits or components to make them, gauges, CPAP's  and O2 concentrators [I don't think they're supposed to be sold there], pulse oximeters at great prices, most anything you can think of.

Here is an interesting piece: Link

 

I cant find a calculator that had jumbo D listed but a regular D will last about 20 min, and an E just over 35min. a jumbo D should be somewhere in the middle

ETA: i found the conversion factor. about 33min for a jumbo D at 15LPM when working off of a full 2000psi and running the bottle dry.

Yep, threads like this elicit a lot of BULLSHIT...

Especially from ME!  

One of my best friends spent four years as sales rep for a gas company.   He sold mostly specialty gases for hospitals and manufacturers, and weld gases to a lesser extent.

Medical gasses were the most expensive.  Priced out of sight, but guaranteed to be super pure.  Welding gases and other grades were far cheaper, and not guaranteed to the same purity.

News flash....  In this case, they all came from the same line and tank.  They didn't make different grades of gasses.  It was all the high grade stuff, which met the High  grade standard.  When you bought the cheap shit, it was still high grade medical gases.  It surpassed the standard for weld gasses.  

This was ca. 1990 - 1995.  Dunno about today.  That's how it was"...

I don't doubt that after it gets to the pipe that determined it's destiny, the quality control may change.

 

G-M, do you remember the brand?

As mentioned above having O2 or advanced airway equipment for long term SHTF isn't going to do anything but prolong the inevitable. Anyone who depends on continuous oxygen therapy for survival isn't going to make it if the electrical grid or supply chain fails. Having a small D or similar size bottle around for medical emergency such as a pulmonary embolism (as mentioned above), asthma or other respiratory emergency can help buy some time until more advanced help can arrive. If there isn't any advanced medical help coming/available you are again probably prolonging the inevitable.

I have COPD. Yeah it sucks, but I deal with it, daily...

I also have a pair of O2 concentrators, but need them because of my congestive heart failure.

I sleep with an Invacare Platinum at 2.0 lpm O2 continuous (capable of 1-10 lpm), power consumption is 585 watt @ 10 lpm.  I've used it essentially every night for the last 5 years, and with periodic filter cleaning, it's been trouble free.  

My backup unit is an Invacare Solo, a portable O2 concentrator capable of 1-3 lpm O2 continuous, power consumption is 180 watt.  The Solo runs off 120V A/C, 12V DC, or an internal battery for ~3 hours.  I use the Solo when traveling or in the car when driving on extended trips.  Though I use the portable much less often, it's also been trouble-free.

I purchased the Invacare Platinum off the Internet and the portable at a local retail store, without providing a prescription.  I also have both whole house and portable backup generators for power failures, or worse.

Thank you Hawk, I'm good right now.

I too had one become very difficult to sync and get a reading. Checked batteries, OK. I need to replace it.

At normal atmospheric pressures I'm not sure how big of a deal it is...I'm usually dealing with it under significantly higher pressures so the partial pressure of that gas becomes a concern for me.  

SHTF probably wouldn't worry about administering welding grade but if I was prepping O2 for SHTF I'd get ABO.

Check out this unfortunate incident...

Can you even imagine???


Fire/death, anesthetized patient investigated and arrested



Please     Don't do this




I did a 'spiriment once to demonstrate how O2 aggressively supports combustion of a wood splint.

Unfortunately, the Tygon tubing connected to the O2 concentrator I was using for a source of oxygen touched the splint, and 'exploded' into fire supported by the O2 passing thru it and was heading to the O2 concentrator.

What a GREAT hi tech fuse movie prop that would make, a piece of tubing with a bright white flame propagating about 1 foot every five seconds! Well, I was impressed and my SO was --dumbfounded...  

Did I mention the smoke????



No big deal, since as a highly trained Arfcom Sheeple Prepper and Operator, I calmly sliced off the tubing at the concentrator's hose barb, with the flame only about a foot away.



[Well, not TOO calmly, there were like $3,500,000 in planes within, let's see, abt 25 feet...  


I'd suggest everybuddy try this w/ your grand pappy's O2 system, if you have an opportunity [and the safety stuff needed, maybe outside?]

Just don't flick your BIC near the 387# lady on her Super Duty Rascal with onboard cryogenic O2 system, when she crowds you out at the buffet...  


Fire propagation ----likely with bright sparks and copious smoke, thru tubing. Not a happy ending

Fast thinking and a GREAT story!!!

Typical stationary O2 concentrator that I heard of sumbuddy who has one, and got it cheep...  





You can pick these up at flea mkts like Berryessa and the former Capitol Flea Mkt in San Jose or check your paper or Craig's list.

Sheeple don't understand and are scared of this kinds of stuff and so, often they can be picked up for a song.  

OMG!

Check out this one!

He just shoulda taken it to the range.  


Duh...


"Right after the cylinder began to leak around the cylinder valve the explosion occurred."

Of Course!

The highly reactive extremely high pressure O2, passing thru the small orifice of leaky threads, will create a heating effect on the valve and aluminum interface...

Considering how reactive aluminum is ---well... KABOOM and kiss your arm, leg, pecker, whatever... Good Bye

You tube vid of last one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lw_fhNAIQc

I have actually run a call where a person was smoking while on their home O2 (with all the "NO SMOKING" signs on the front door) and the nasal cannula caught fire. They literally looked like wile e coyote when i walked in the door, all bug eyed with the "WTF" expression on their face.

Needless to say, they bought themselves a tube and a chopper ride to a trauma center.

One of the medics on our department had a call for a man down in his garage when they got there there was blood on the floor and he was face down with part of his welding O2 regulator stuck in his skull. He was deceased and I never did hear if they figured out what happened, nobody saw it happen.

As far as CPAP's and now APAP's; What kind of info are you looking for?

They don't provide enough pressure to be a ventilator; usually 20 cm/h20 max.  BiPAPs will top out at 25 cm/h20.  BiPAPs have a greater difference between inspiration and exhalation pressures than CPAPs and APAPs can provide.  There are some that will go up to 30 cm/h2o iirc.

They assist with keeping your upper airways open; not filling your lungs.

 
















 

Being new to this whole oxygen thing, I have a question for you old pros. What is the difference (component wise) between the $800 wristox and a $50 fingertip pulse ox? Could a person make a "wrist" unit from the parts in a fingertip unit?

Tom

When I saw you mention the wristox I searched and that seemed to be the price for them. Do you get them cheaper?

Tom

ETA: In further searching I see this for $143 on amazon. Is this more in line price wise?  

Acc U Rate® CMS 50F PLUS Wrist Pulse Oximeter (Ver 3.7) with SnugFit probe

That's the same unit my Mother had at home after her stroke.

Speaking of bottled oxygen, when I was taking care of my Mom I was able to make her bottled oxygen last longer once I found her a demand regulator. It was far less wasteful than a traditional regulator

This is clear cut malpractice on the part of the anesthesiologist.  No excuse, write a check.  You can't leave the O2 at 100% when the surgeon is burning his way down into the airway.  You just can't.

Fires in the OR always result in a settlement.  They're indefensible.




Nicotine's a hell of a drug.  You've got to really, really NEED that fix to keep smoking cigarettes after you've damaged your lungs to the point of needing home O2.

Sorry your Mom had a stroke.

That's a good unit...

As ready mentioned, if you need oxygen long term and you don't have reliable access to electricity, you're SOL. Acute issues are also going to be problematic, mild pneumonias you could have enough oxygen on hand for, but anything requiring more than 4L/min and you'll burn through bottles fast, not to mention if you're using CPAP or bipap with a 100% bleed in, unless you have the type to setup a hospital has, again you're screwed, a cpap on 100% will burn through a traditional E bottle in less than 5 minutes

I see almost 1 idiot burn their face from smoking with oxygen every other month.  This is usually when I double down on the hospice talk.

Cool story bro...

Thanks brother

She is doing much better now. While things are a little tight, I have been able to keep her in her home - rather than a nursing home

Here's another incident that just happened this week.  

They should start a marketing campaign with posters all over the hospital:" Don't flick your Bic!"