User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:16:47 PM EDT
Why were they made? How many versions were there? Were any adopted as service weapons? It seems to me that you could have a longer and more powerful cartridge, but at the expense of a longer weapon.
At least they look cool!    |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:18:07 PM EDT
[#1]
 
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:19:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Uh, the second gun is not a pistol.
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:24:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Sure it is. No less so than this:  My fav:  Blastech DL-44 |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:26:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Wrong, it is considered a submachine gun. world.guns.ru/smg/smg26-e.htm |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:27:10 PM EDT
[#5]
at the risk of appearing more of an idiot than usual...what is the firearm in the 3rd picture of the OP?
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:27:21 PM EDT
[#6]
that last one looks like a AR pistol with a piston upper that somebody has seriously dicked up with a drill press
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:28:10 PM EDT
[#7]
Not so much, it has a folding stock attached, so it's a rifle:) |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:28:25 PM EDT
[#8]
yeah but these are available: www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=425 VZ 61 Skorpion Pistol ,semi auto, 32 acp, designed after the Czech vz. 61 Skorpion submachine pistol. The original vz. 61 Skorpion has been praised for its compact design and ability to offer a small, lightweight alternative to a service rifle for support personnel ,comes with 3 mags, sling, holster, owners info CD , , imported from the CZECH Republic, a great piece for any collection. Skorpion Pistol $759.00  |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:28:28 PM EDT
[#9]
I think it's an Oly. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:28:57 PM EDT
[#10]
It was Olympic Arms answer to having an AR pistol during the ban.
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:29:10 PM EDT
[#11]
jamrkma might be saying that if that is a functioning shoulder stock in the original picture, it is not legally a pistol. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:29:21 PM EDT
[#12]
But, but, I made it 3 ounces lighter. 
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:29:26 PM EDT
[#13]
Atlantic's model doesn't have a stock like the picture in the OP. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:29:38 PM EDT
[#14]
No it ain't it is a Scorpion submachine gun |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:30:29 PM EDT
[#15]
Exactly. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:30:39 PM EDT
[#16]
what? the shoulder thing that goes up? I thought we banned those.
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:31:07 PM EDT
[#17]
+1 |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:31:14 PM EDT
[#18]
AR-Nth |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:33:42 PM EDT
[#19]
were the 500 holes of Bartholomew Cubbins offered as an option or standard?
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:35:08 PM EDT
[#20]
That's neat Atlantic Firearms has VZ-61's. I didn't think those were available that often.
I wouldn't buy one, but I'd like to fire one, and field strip it to poke around inside. I heard the full auto ones had some kind of recriprocating weight in the grip to reduce the rate of fire. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:35:12 PM EDT
[#21]
You're all forgetting the greatest of them all:
 Dozens of rap singers can't be wrong
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:35:59 PM EDT
[#22]
+1 |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:36:01 PM EDT
[#23]
C-96 Broomhandles, first picture were adopted by a number of militaries, especially Germany in WWI & China until 1937. More info wanted? www.1896mauser.com
Hundreds of thousands of these pistols were made. Advantages? Not many over a magazine/grip pistol. BTW, you can use stocks on some older curio pistols like the C-96, some Hi-Powers, & long barreled lugers. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:36:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Pistol + stpck = sub machine gun |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:36:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Yes, it is an Oly. There were only a few made. I'm not certain how many. It is not a piston upper, it uses (I have been told by a guy selling one at a show...so this could be total BS) a 1911 recoil spring to power the bolt back into battery. It was an answer to a challenge put forward by the AWB. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:37:38 PM EDT
[#26]
It's the Klobb.
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:38:45 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:39:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Another one: Enforcer
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:40:30 PM EDT
[#29]
Didn't Walther make one?
A .32 target pistol, IIRC. I think Bridget "spank me, I'm a naughty liberal" Fonda used one in Point of No Return. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:40:54 PM EDT
[#30]
The top one is a Broomhandle Mauser. It’s a very old design from around the turn of the century. Back then designers were still trying to figure out how to make a working automatic pistol. Ultimately they dropped the magazine forward design for the magazine in the handle/slide pattern everyone uses today.
The second one is really a compact submachine gun, although if you take the stock off it becomes a handgun. Its intended use is different than a pistol. The third looks to be an AR based pistol of some kind. You can remove the shoulder stock of a rifle, give it a short barrel, and it technically becomes a pistol. If it weren’t for some weird US laws then no one would remove the shoulder stock and they would just be short barreled rifles/carbines. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:42:08 PM EDT
[#31]
Supposedly, the mere existence of the Oly pistol dicked Hawaiians out of 30 round magazines.
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:43:37 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:46:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Spectre pistol:
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:46:22 PM EDT
[#34]
Wouldn't the stocked Skorpion be considered a machine pistol?
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:48:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Sweet. I need one to go with my DD44 Dostevei and my KF-7 Soviet.
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:50:33 PM EDT
[#36]
If it's good enough for Morgan Freeman, it's good enough for me.
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:51:47 PM EDT
[#37]
If it was a semi-auto and had a working stock I believe it would be a SBR |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:55:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Did everyone miss the reference of the Glock 18C when it was being compared to the second pic? Many noticed that the second pic is a machinegun, but so is the Glock.
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:55:16 PM EDT
[#39]
The answer is that it was quite normal for automatic pistols to be designed with magazines outside of the grip when these designs were in their infancy.
Low powered blowback automatic pistols almost always had the magazine in the grip but many designers couldn't get the lockwork done without space to work with, so you get the magazine forward design. Before the 1911 pretty much brought the dropping barrel lock into dominance, there were many other methods employed. Mag in grip locked breech autos:(Roth Steyr 1907, Luger) Mag forward of grip locked breech autos:(Mauser C96, Bergman Mars) Remember that the US favored revolvers, so powerful autos were a European thing until the 1911 came around. Currently, it's not and effective design for a pistol so when it's done it's usually to emulate a SMG. PS: don't get pissy about me calling them automatic pistols. "semi-auto" is a fairly modern term, and we're talking about the pre-1910 time frame where there were revolvers and automatics. It wasn't until the 1930s when Mauser dared to create a machine pistol out of a C96 that 'full auto' was seen in a handgun. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:56:14 PM EDT
[#40]
I was referring to technical designation, not ATF bullshit. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:56:57 PM EDT
[#41]
AHHHHHHHHHHH the Tec-9. When i was little I had a purple tec-9 cap gun with a green detachable magazine its my favorite submachine gun(from childhood memories anyway )
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:57:06 PM EDT
[#42]
I noticed, but that would be considered a machine pistol. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:58:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Why don't companies do it anymore?
They do, but that sort of design isn't favored because it makes the weapon bigger than it has to be and harder to fit into a holster and conceal. That's just not appealing. Some olympic quality target guns are still made with a magazine in front of the trigger, but that's about the limit. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:59:05 PM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:59:24 PM EDT
[#45]
Well sorry for the technical bullshit. Go ahead and call it whatever you want. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 12:59:29 PM EDT
[#46]
A very interesting weapon, especially with a quadruple-stack magazine. |
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Posted: 12/19/2007 1:00:14 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 12/19/2007 1:00:29 PM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 12/19/2007 1:01:30 PM EDT
[#49]
Ive owned one, fed flawlessly for me and had 50rds to dump
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Posted: 12/19/2007 1:02:10 PM EDT
[#50]
What do you think of it? Ever tried it side by side with an SP-89? 
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