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In a back alley in her pajamas? That job must be an endless line of crazy every min of every day.

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The family of an Australian woman shot to death by Minneapolis police has hired an attorney who represented the family of Philando Castile.

https://patch.com/minnesota/southwestminneapolis/damond-family-hires-attorney-philando-castile-case

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You are an idiot.  I did not and am not backpeddaling, imbecile.  

He cannot be forced to talk to cops.   Period.  He can be forced to give a statement on the IA side or lose his job. But that statement cannot be used against him, for the same reason the arresting cops can't make him talk.  That's the same protections you get, sweetie pie.    

Fifth amendment, Johnny on the knob.  

I didn't research anything, fool.   I aced Con Law twenty eight years ago, you know, in law school.  I already knew the law.  You still don't know it, but are living in fantasy land where I'm backpeddaling.  Maybe you could quote up where that happened, or, alternatively, drop the fantasy that you're making a decent showing.  

I know, make some more shit up, that will help save face.

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Yeah, still weird. At the suggestion of the officers? That's just bad decision making to go into an alley where cops are looking for sexual predators/ deviants. That you complained about. deciding to do that of your own accord. IMO.

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Unless there was a grassy knoll nearby, we have one witness who has directly stated that Noor fired shots, we have Noor's recently fired handgun, we (more accurately, the investigators) have fired brass matching the ammunition in Noor's gun, and we have no other suspects in the shooting.

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Why don't you keep the name calling out of it?

Jesus.

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Here is a partial list of things the cops should be trained on in regards to firearms.  A bunch of these are either court mandated (realistically all of them can under various court rulings that an agency needs to train their officers to deal with any likely scenario.) or incorporated into state certifying requirements.

Shoot don't shoot
Force on force
Off duty/UC officer involved shooting
responding to an off duty/UC officer involved shooting
shooting while moving
shooting at moving targets
shooting at moving targets while moving
drawing from concealment
drawing from non-standard positions
shooting from a vehicle
shooting into a vehicle
shooting from nonstandard positions
administrative handling
non-dominant hand shooting
shooting non-dominant and dominant only
shooting with a light
malfunction clearance
malfunction clearance one handed
malfunction clearance one handed with the non-dominant hand (double feeds fucking suck but can be done.  Not likely?  Is a shooter induced malfunction more or less likely when the dominant hand is unavailable and the officer is shooting non-dominant hand only?).
shooting from cover concealment
shooting with bystanders
hostage shots

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There are reasons for this.  Most people blame it on affirmative action.  WHile that is a factor, particularly with a decent selection of the current generation of administrators, there are other factors that are in play and depending on area may be even bigger issues.

Money.  About 10 years ago I spent a few months helping a smaller county.  WHile I was there they hired a guy who was married with one kid.  After the kid accepted the job, the Sheriff handed him the paperwork because he qualified for food stamps.  Seriously, starting pay was around 12 dollars an hour.  My base pay was twice that (starting base pay was about 16K a year more).  And our pay sucks so bad we had exactly zero qualified applicants on our last posted opening.  I have worked with cops from the south who thought 40K a year starting pay with no pension was cop heaven.  Because their starting pay in GA or AL was under $15 with a similar cost of living.

The Ferguson effect.  LE has been a damned if you do damned if you do not profession since before I started.  However, now the public is far more aware of it.  They are far more aware of the risks (not the on the job physical stuff, the other shit).  And people qualified to be a cop under the old standards can make a fuck ton more money doing other shit.  So the costs of becoming a cop are starting to outweigh the benefits for a lot of people.

Society in general.  When I was a rookie cop, we did not get weekly or daily calls to go be a parent cause suzi soccermom hasn't been one for the first 15 years of kids life.  We did not get 911 calls to come make the coyotes be quiet so suzi soccermom could get some sleep.  Only really old widows and spinsters called us to come fix their furnace or water heater at 3 am.  If some one locked themselves out of their car, you did not have to get a waiver signed and if it fucked up the window they did not sue your ass.  They knew the risk and accepted it.  I was not expected to be a mental health counselor or a paramedic.  I was expected to show up, stabilize shit enough to keep people alive until the trained professionals in that field took over.   I did not deal with petty shit because some one in their mid thirties or older had not figured out how to adult yet.

Money part 2:  Training.  Everyone wants highly trained professional cops.  Until it is time to actually pay for highly trained professional cops.  The state requires one qualification and four hours of firearms training a year.  On the other hand the courts have ruled that meeting state requirements is not adequate.  Specifically, the courts expect departments to train officers to deal with any likely scenario.  My current agency used to do one classroom day/ qual, a qual only and two range days a year for thirty hours of training.  Budget changes have cut that back to one range day a year.  With thirty hours a year you can maybe cover the majority of the basic likely scenarios in a few years.

That is only one area.  You also have arrest control (cheaper than guns for instructors), driving (fucking expensive), cic, prea, animal rights/awareness(decent for the city kids), senior abuse, it's always the mans fault, CIT, mental health awareness, legal updates (useful and relevant), anti-bias (again), community policing (seriously, it is not a rapidly changing field.  Do I really need to go through a class or two on it every freaking 2-5 years to keep the feds and the state happy?), first aid and cpr (useful) and a host of other training that does not have a lot of bearing on the traditional cops job.  Nope, I am not whining, just pointing out while I am used to the stupid (in the slow boil frog kind of way) when you factor in the other issues, a lot of bright, motivated rookies, guys and gals you WANT to be cops, put up with it for a year or two and then say fuck this and go on to other things.

The triumph of management over leadership.  Much like when I was in the military, managers are every where and generally fucking shit up.  Leaders are harder to find and may not be around long enough to unfuck things.

Seriously, every one says you get what you pay for.  But they expect to pay a wage some where between  a clerk at sprouts and middle class, Spend maybe $300 per officer per year for training, to get a professional gunfighter, who is also a paramedic, veternarian, social worker, mental health counselor, accident reconstructionist, Nascar driver, MMA fighter, surrogate parent, home repairman, role model, mediator, and attorney.  All from memory while never hesitating, thinking about the decision, researching the law or making a single mistake.

Is it any wonder a lot of potentially good cops are saying fuck this and becoming social workers, probation officers, lasik repairman , sysco sales reps or hvac guys?  That bigger cities are lowering standards? Or that smaller towns and counties are sometimes stuck hiring other peoples rejects or ummmm, marginal candidates?  Or that when a friend of my girlfriends kid asked me if I had any advice for her boyfriend who wants to be a cop I said, be a firefighter?

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You might have a different perspective on this than your average civilian. You understand the potential danger, and perhaps see the officer's arrival as the beginning of the incident, but the typical civilian might see the officer's arrival as the conclusion, if not of the incident then of the danger. And in a very real sense she was correct, the officer's arrival should have heralded safety. The LAST thing someone calling the police aught to fear is homicide by cop. Officers have an ethical and professional OBLIGATION to correctly identify targets and threats, and to refrain from murdering innocent civilians.

And that's really what this incident, and the many like it, are about. The problem is not that officers make too many mistakes (though perhaps they do), but that generally nothing is done about it, justice is rarely dispensed, and we are told that occasional random murder by cop is just something we must tolerate in order to accommodate the delicate feelings of that thin blue line.

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There are reasons for this.  Most people blame it on affirmative action.  WHile that is a factor, particularly with a decent selection of the current generation of administrators, there are other factors that are in play and depending on area may be even bigger issues.

Money.  About 10 years ago I spent a few months helping a smaller county.  WHile I was there they hired a guy who was married with one kid.  After the kid accepted the job, the Sheriff handed him the paperwork because he qualified for food stamps.  Seriously, starting pay was around 12 dollars an hour.  My base pay was twice that (starting base pay was about 16K a year more).  And our pay sucks so bad we had exactly zero qualified applicants on our last posted opening.  I have worked with cops from the south who thought 40K a year starting pay with no pension was cop heaven.  Because their starting pay in GA or AL was under $15 with a similar cost of living.

The Ferguson effect.  LE has been a damned if you do damned if you do not profession since before I started.  However, now the public is far more aware of it.  They are far more aware of the risks (not the on the job physical stuff, the other shit).  And people qualified to be a cop under the old standards can make a fuck ton more money doing other shit.  So the costs of becoming a cop are starting to outweigh the benefits for a lot of people.

Society in general.  When I was a rookie cop, we did not get weekly or daily calls to go be a parent cause suzi soccermom hasn't been one for the first 15 years of kids life.  We did not get 911 calls to come make the coyotes be quiet so suzi soccermom could get some sleep.  Only really old widows and spinsters called us to come fix their furnace or water heater at 3 am.  If some one locked themselves out of their car, you did not have to get a waiver signed and if it fucked up the window they did not sue your ass.  They knew the risk and accepted it.  I was not expected to be a mental health counselor or a paramedic.  I was expected to show up, stabilize shit enough to keep people alive until the trained professionals in that field took over.   I did not deal with petty shit because some one in their mid thirties or older had not figured out how to adult yet.

Money part 2:  Training.  Everyone wants highly trained professional cops.  Until it is time to actually pay for highly trained professional cops.  The state requires one qualification and four hours of firearms training a year.  On the other hand the courts have ruled that meeting state requirements is not adequate.  Specifically, the courts expect departments to train officers to deal with any likely scenario.  My current agency used to do one classroom day/ qual, a qual only and two range days a year for thirty hours of training.  Budget changes have cut that back to one range day a year.  With thirty hours a year you can maybe cover the majority of the basic likely scenarios in a few years.

That is only one area.  You also have arrest control (cheaper than guns for instructors), driving (fucking expensive), cic, prea, animal rights/awareness(decent for the city kids), senior abuse, it's always the mans fault, CIT, mental health awareness, legal updates (useful and relevant), anti-bias (again), community policing (seriously, it is not a rapidly changing field.  Do I really need to go through a class or two on it every freaking 2-5 years to keep the feds and the state happy?), first aid and cpr (useful) and a host of other training that does not have a lot of bearing on the traditional cops job.  Nope, I am not whining, just pointing out while I am used to the stupid (in the slow boil frog kind of way) when you factor in the other issues, a lot of bright, motivated rookies, guys and gals you WANT to be cops, put up with it for a year or two and then say fuck this and go on to other things.

The triumph of management over leadership.  Much like when I was in the military, managers are every where and generally fucking shit up.  Leaders are harder to find and may not be around long enough to unfuck things.

Seriously, every one says you get what you pay for.  But they expect to pay a wage some where between  a clerk at sprouts and middle class, Spend maybe $300 per officer per year for training, to get a professional gunfighter, who is also a paramedic, veternarian, social worker, mental health counselor, accident reconstructionist, Nascar driver, MMA fighter, surrogate parent, home repairman, role model, mediator, and attorney.  All from memory while never hesitating, thinking about the decision, researching the law or making a single mistake.

Is it any wonder a lot of potentially good cops are saying fuck this and becoming social workers, probation officers, lasik repairman , sysco sales reps or hvac guys?  That bigger cities are lowering standards? Or that smaller towns and counties are sometimes stuck hiring other peoples rejects or ummmm, marginal candidates?  Or that when a friend of my girlfriends kid asked me if I had any advice for her boyfriend who wants to be a cop I said, be a firefighter?

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And every citizen should be asking their local PTB's what the departments training budget looks like.  Seriously.  I am not disagreeing with you.  But training ain't free (small city with out their own range?  In colorado expect to pony up anywhere form a couple grand a year to 4K every time you go to the range.  Scheduled a year in advance.  With no refunds for cancellations if there happens to be a blizzard.  Plus time, ammo, possible travel expenses, targets etc etc) and the focus on fighting and driving died a long time ago.  The whole we put pictures of different shit in there hands is great.  But if you are only doing it during the daylight it ain't so great when shooting happens at an alley at three am.

Here is a partial list of things the cops should be trained on in regards to firearms.  A bunch of these are either court mandated (realistically all of them can under various court rulings that an agency needs to train their officers to deal with any likely scenario.) or incorporated into state certifying requirements.

Shoot don't shoot
Force on force
Off duty/UC officer involved shooting
responding to an off duty/UC officer involved shooting
shooting while moving
shooting at moving targets
shooting at moving targets while moving
drawing from concealment
drawing from non-standard positions
shooting from a vehicle
shooting into a vehicle
shooting from nonstandard positions
administrative handling
non-dominant hand shooting
shooting non-dominant and dominant only
shooting with a light
malfunction clearance
malfunction clearance one handed
malfunction clearance one handed with the non-dominant hand (double feeds fucking suck but can be done.  Not likely?  Is a shooter induced malfunction more or less likely when the dominant hand is unavailable and the officer is shooting non-dominant hand only?).
shooting from cover concealment
shooting with bystanders
hostage shots

all of this in day and low light conditions.

Please design me a training course that allows me to have 30 officers proficient (not we do it once every three or four years but actually proficient.) on all of the above.  Your budget is between 3 and 15K.  But that budget has to include instructor certification and certification maintenance, range maintenance and/or fees, range equipment, and ammo.  Additionally, you can not use all of that money.  Because we still need to do arrest control, tazer, oc, baton, driving and a bunch of other training this year.  Oh, and we need instructors for those areas to be certified as well.

That is the reality for a lot of cops in this country.

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And every citizen should be asking their local PTB's what the departments training budget looks like.  Seriously.  I am not disagreeing with you.  But training ain't free (small city with out their own range?  In colorado expect to pony up anywhere form a couple grand a year to 4K every time you go to the range.  Scheduled a year in advance.  With no refunds for cancellations if there happens to be a blizzard.  Plus time, ammo, possible travel expenses, targets etc etc) and the focus on fighting and driving died a long time ago.  The whole we put pictures of different shit in there hands is great.  But if you are only doing it during the daylight it ain't so great when shooting happens at an alley at three am.

Here is a partial list of things the cops should be trained on in regards to firearms.  A bunch of these are either court mandated (realistically all of them can under various court rulings that an agency needs to train their officers to deal with any likely scenario.) or incorporated into state certifying requirements.

Shoot don't shoot
Force on force
Off duty/UC officer involved shooting
responding to an off duty/UC officer involved shooting
shooting while moving
shooting at moving targets
shooting at moving targets while moving
drawing from concealment
drawing from non-standard positions
shooting from a vehicle
shooting into a vehicle
shooting from nonstandard positions
administrative handling
non-dominant hand shooting
shooting non-dominant and dominant only
shooting with a light
malfunction clearance
malfunction clearance one handed
malfunction clearance one handed with the non-dominant hand (double feeds fucking suck but can be done.  Not likely?  Is a shooter induced malfunction more or less likely when the dominant hand is unavailable and the officer is shooting non-dominant hand only?).
shooting from cover concealment
shooting with bystanders
hostage shots

all of this in day and low light conditions.

Please design me a training course that allows me to have 30 officers proficient (not we do it once every three or four years but actually proficient.) on all of the above.  Your budget is between 3 and 15K.  But that budget has to include instructor certification and certification maintenance, range maintenance and/or fees, range equipment, and ammo.  Additionally, you can not use all of that money.  Because we still need to do arrest control, tazer, oc, baton, driving and a bunch of other training this year.  Oh, and we need instructors for those areas to be certified as well.

That is the reality for a lot of cops in this country.

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Funny you skip calling him a prick.

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Funny you skip calling him a prick.

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Already did.  Stop shitposting.  Arrogant?   You have feelings of inadequacy that aren't my problem, kid.

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This is why I keep asking if small agencies can carry their overhead.

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And every citizen should be asking their local PTB's what the departments training budget looks like.  Seriously.  I am not disagreeing with you.  But training ain't free (small city with out their own range?  In colorado expect to pony up anywhere form a couple grand a year to 4K every time you go to the range.  Scheduled a year in advance.  With no refunds for cancellations if there happens to be a blizzard.  Plus time, ammo, possible travel expenses, targets etc etc) and the focus on fighting and driving died a long time ago.  The whole we put pictures of different shit in there hands is great.  But if you are only doing it during the daylight it ain't so great when shooting happens at an alley at three am.

Here is a partial list of things the cops should be trained on in regards to firearms.  A bunch of these are either court mandated (realistically all of them can under various court rulings that an agency needs to train their officers to deal with any likely scenario.) or incorporated into state certifying requirements.

Shoot don't shoot
Force on force
Off duty/UC officer involved shooting
responding to an off duty/UC officer involved shooting
shooting while moving
shooting at moving targets
shooting at moving targets while moving
drawing from concealment
drawing from non-standard positions
shooting from a vehicle
shooting into a vehicle
shooting from nonstandard positions
administrative handling
non-dominant hand shooting
shooting non-dominant and dominant only
shooting with a light
malfunction clearance
malfunction clearance one handed
malfunction clearance one handed with the non-dominant hand (double feeds fucking suck but can be done.  Not likely?  Is a shooter induced malfunction more or less likely when the dominant hand is unavailable and the officer is shooting non-dominant hand only?).
shooting from cover concealment
shooting with bystanders
hostage shots

all of this in day and low light conditions.

Please design me a training course that allows me to have 30 officers proficient (not we do it once every three or four years but actually proficient.) on all of the above.  Your budget is between 3 and 15K.  But that budget has to include instructor certification and certification maintenance, range maintenance and/or fees, range equipment, and ammo.  Additionally, you can not use all of that money.  Because we still need to do arrest control, tazer, oc, baton, driving and a bunch of other training this year.  Oh, and we need instructors for those areas to be certified as well.

That is the reality for a lot of cops in this country.

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I may have picked that up from the dispatch call where 'fireworks' like noises were described. Sorry if I mislead anyone...

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I'm thinking being that high on alert maybe the perception of any loud noise would be amplified under those circumstances?

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Have there been anymore facts released about this? Not interested in opinions, just what has been released pertaining to this incident.

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IBTL.

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Hard to do that with 50 rds a year.

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Why don't you keep the name calling out of it?

Jesus.

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The "him" i meant was me.  You quoted a sentence I wrote, and cautioned not to make me "make"

You were talking about me, and I am not a cop.