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Posted: 4/22/2016 2:40:16 PM EDT
[#1]
They make Yeager's group look pretty professional.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 2:54:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol General Gurganus is that you? A single crew served might buy some time but it sure isn't going to be making lunch meat out of an entire company. That assault would of given a lot of fobs trouble. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That seemed like a fairly disorganized assault. Lots of heavy weapons by the assaulters, but with armor and heavy cannon they had; the defenders could've made short work of their attackers if they had the training and will power. (Arm chair quarterback opinion) I doubt they had but 6 guys on post. Disorganized or not they completely overwhelmed that camp. It was actually a pretty impressive and aggressive maneuver. Lol, impressive maneuver? The guys walking through the fields would have been lunch meat for a single crew served weapon fielded and supported correctly. Lol General Gurganus is that you? A single crew served might buy some time but it sure isn't going to be making lunch meat out of an entire company. That assault would of given a lot of fobs trouble. The assualt wasn't that large. The lesson of stacking bodies with a properly run crew served was learned in freaking ww1, keeling the guns running is always a priority. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 2:56:16 PM EDT
[#3]
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Making some hefty assumptions considering the opening SVBIED (which is, of course, an assumption on my part. but that is a standard tactic because its so fucking effective. One of my teams got hit by one, no KIAs, but some dudes got fucked up.) Per the BBC article 13 or so Kenyans turned up in a neighboring village because they fled the fight and who knows how many more others decided to run. I would be surprised if more than 50% stayed and tried to fight after the initial contact. More than half of a platoon decides "fuck it and runs" at the first sign of a complex attack doesn't bode well for any sort of defense. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 4:33:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: T,here is at least one video from Iraq posted here years ago where Al Qaeda tried the same thing on a Marine outpost of some sort, and they were kind enough to videotape themselves getting cut to pieces. It was a great video.  Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile  http://youtu.be/AhirrCKxuSE
Nice! That's the one, but I was wrong about it being Iraq and Al Qaeda.  Hey, the terrorists all look alike.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 4:36:21 PM EDT
[#5]
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No...he's talking about this one...frontal assault into a 240 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HTjzZMWPao
ETA: I would have loved to have been the 240 gunner in the bunker when these assholes drove up...after I got over the shock of them being so brazen...it would have been fun as hell
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I think the context of the book(s) is more historical (having read them) and doesn't apply to the U.S. military today which is 100% volunteer and professional. I think it does apply still to poorly trained and led Third World militaries though. There is at least one video from Iraq posted here years ago where Al Qaeda tried the same thing on a Marine outpost of some sort, and they were kind enough to videotape themselves getting cut to pieces. It was a great video.
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile If you're talking about the attack where the 2 Marines on post saw the vbied coming and engaged it, killing the driver, but eating the explosion in the process...the was decidedly un-awesome. No...he's talking about this one...frontal assault into a 240
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HTjzZMWPao
ETA: I would have loved to have been the 240 gunner in the bunker when these assholes drove up...after I got over the shock of them being so brazen...it would have been fun as hell
Hmm. That is labeled Iraq. Same attack though. Great stuff, especially the pictures at the end. 
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Posted: 4/22/2016 5:09:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Full video of the attack, it was a complete shit show.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d8d_1460472024 They claim 100+ killed, not sure about that, but the amount of equipment there does suggest it was a large group. It does not look like they had more than 2 or 3 defensive positions, and the main hesco bunker was an weapon/ammo dump. ETA: What is with 3rd world countries and their desire to store huge amounts of weapons and ammo in the middle of nowhere with no security? |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 5:24:50 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fucking savages. Yep. 
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Posted: 4/22/2016 5:40:59 PM EDT
[#8]
There are different types of armies.
Most train to fight other armies, think USA, Russia, France, etc. Some are internal security and fight civilians, think Argentina, Mexico and most African countries where they come up against unarmed or lightly armed civilians. And some are strictly for show like the Bahamas. I'm thinking the Kenyan army is more of the second category. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 5:56:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are different types of armies. Most train to fight other armies, think USA, Russia, France, etc. Some are internal security and fight civilians, think Argentina, Mexico and most African countries where they come up against unarmed or lightly armed civilians. And some are strictly for show like the Bahamas. I'm thinking the Kenyan army is more of the second category. If we ever have a revolution/civil war we will have forces that do the same thing. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 6:12:33 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would 10-20 Kenyan soldiers putting out accurate fire have been able to slow shabaab's roll? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Discipline. Never go below 1/3 security if contact is possible. 50/50 if probable. Security = dudes behind their weapons scanning their sectors. LP/OP's are not a new invention. They're actually pretty good at detecting infiltration...especially if there are vehicles. Not to be an asshole, but that entire Kenyan unit committed suicide by failing to adhere to basic discipline, let alone established doctrinal priorities of work in the defense. Does not excuse the bad guys, but you shouldn't make it easy for them either. Would 10-20 Kenyan soldiers putting out accurate fire have been able to slow shabaab's roll? Audie Murphy spoiled a German company sized attack with a single heavy machinegun. While standing on the back of a burning tank. OBTW, the Germans were very experienced, disciplined troops. Especially their leaders. So, yeah, I think it could have slowed the attack if not stopped it cold. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 6:30:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Full video of the attack, it was a complete shit show. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d8d_1460472024 They claim 100+ killed, not sure about that, but the amount of equipment there does suggest it was a large group. It does not look like they had more than 2 or 3 defensive positions, and the main hesco bunker was an weapon/ammo dump. ETA: What is with 3rd world countries and their desire to store huge amounts of weapons and ammo in the middle of nowhere with no security?  |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 7:01:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Fucking savages. Yep. And how do you defeat someone who has absolutely no concern for their own lives or those around them? |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 7:06:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And how do you defeat someone who has absolutely no concern for their own lives or those around them? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fucking savages. Yep. And how do you defeat someone who has absolutely no concern for their own lives or those around them? You do real bad things with their bodies that would strike fear in the rest of them. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 7:15:10 PM EDT
[#14]
Al-Shabaab sounds like a delicious food item.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 7:38:37 PM EDT
[#15]
This is why I never wanted to be a ground pounder. That Army stuff does not look like fun.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 7:49:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And how do you defeat someone who has absolutely no concern for their own lives or those around them? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fucking savages. Yep. And how do you defeat someone who has absolutely no concern for their own lives or those around them? But really that is just my emotions speaking and I try to put my trust with people that can make a great plan and carry it out. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 7:58:37 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how do you defeat someone who has absolutely no concern for their own lives or those around them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Fucking savages. Yep. And how do you defeat someone who has absolutely no concern for their own lives or those around them? Yeah not being scared isn't going to stop bullets from cutting them up so I don't really give a fuck how brave they are. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:00:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Full video of the attack, it was a complete shit show. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d8d_1460472024 They claim 100+ killed, not sure about that, but the amount of equipment there does suggest it was a large group. It does not look like they had more than 2 or 3 defensive positions, and the main hesco bunker was an weapon/ammo dump. ETA: What is with 3rd world countries and their desire to store huge amounts of weapons and ammo in the middle of nowhere with no security? 0 fucking standards and discipline. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:10:30 PM EDT
[#19]
dupe
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:11:51 PM EDT
[#20]
Well that's what happens when you don't have people on guard duty, only one perimeter and no will to fight. Three or four guys actually returning fire would have given them some pause.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:12:31 PM EDT
[#21]
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That seemed like a fairly disorganized assault. Lots of heavy weapons by the assaulters, but with armor and heavy cannon they had; the defenders could've made short work of their attackers if they had the training and will power. (Arm chair quarterback opinion) I doubt they had but 6 guys on post. Disorganized or not they completely overwhelmed that camp. It was actually a pretty impressive and aggressive maneuver. Lol, impressive maneuver? The guys walking through the fields would have been lunch meat for a single crew served weapon fielded and supported correctly. Lol General Gurganus is that you? A single crew served might buy some time but it sure isn't going to be making lunch meat out of an entire company. That assault would of given a lot of fobs trouble. *supported correctly. I.E. a squad with riflemen and company mortars on the radio with pre planned targets and FPFs. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:25:49 PM EDT
[#22]
guy a 5min mark.
They most not of had any ammo in their vehicles. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:27:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Two guys on a '60 (sorry, I'm old
) with a few rifles to secure their flanks, could have have knocked one hell of a dent in that assault, I think.
To me, the technicals didn't look like they were delivering very accurate fire until they got extremely close, especially since their drivers kept bouncing them around while the gunner was trying to aim & fire. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 8:33:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: T,here is at least one video from Iraq posted here years ago where Al Qaeda tried the same thing on a Marine outpost of some sort, and they were kind enough to videotape themselves getting cut to pieces. It was a great video. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile http://youtu.be/AhirrCKxuSE
This and Apache highlight reels are my favorite vids of the past decade. I always laugh at their half-hearted moto cheer at the end of the 'briefing'. They know they're fucked 
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:19:14 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And how do you defeat someone who has absolutely no concern for their own lives or those around them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Fucking savages. Yep. And how do you defeat someone who has absolutely no concern for their own lives or those around them? Kill them all. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:43:06 PM EDT
[#26]
It's important that we do not underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. That people said, they would get utterly destroyed by a Marine platoon with support.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:54:51 PM EDT
[#27]
From looking at the liveleak video it looks like the Kenyans had at least a couple of squads if not a platoon with plenty of ammo and weapons. Unreal. Must of been their worst trained soldiers.
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:11:44 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: grossman was full of shit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That was a shit ton of tracers missing overhead. It is almost like they used them to scare folks. Read Grossman's book On Killing. Most war is nothing more than shooting over people's heads. It's fascinating. grossman was full of shit. |
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Posted: 4/22/2016 10:48:51 PM EDT
[#29]
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Fucking savages. Savages? War is hell. You want them to line up in rows and take turn, and stop every 3 hrs for tea? |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 1:22:30 AM EDT
[#30]
ITT Western arrogance
Last war we won was in 1953 and that was(is) a stalemate at best. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 1:32:20 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ITT Western arrogance Last war we won was in 1953 and that was(is) a stalemate at best. lol |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 1:35:05 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ITT Western arrogance Last war we won was in 1953 and that was(is) a stalemate at best. lol |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 1:44:54 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Forgot Grenada Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ITT Western arrogance Last war we won was in 1953 and that was(is) a stalemate at best. lol I like how Vietnam's our ally now.TThatsactually kinda neat. I guess we need to slaughter a million of any country and they'll love us for it. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 1:53:07 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like how Vietnam's our ally now.TThatsactually kinda neat. I guess we need to slaughter a million of any country and they'll love us for it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: ITT Western arrogance Last war we won was in 1953 and that was(is) a stalemate at best. lol I like how Vietnam's our ally now.TThatsactually kinda neat. I guess we need to slaughter a million of any country and they'll love us for it. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 2:21:55 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Vietnam still follows communism. The only reason they're playing buddy with the West is that China is looking to expand. Idk if you're being sarcastic but you're arguing for the other side. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ITT Western arrogance Last war we won was in 1953 and that was(is) a stalemate at best. lol I like how Vietnam's our ally now.TThatsactually kinda neat. I guess we need to slaughter a million of any country and they'll love us for it. What is your experience in these matters other than passing opinions developed officer persons opinions? |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 2:41:25 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: QFT. Bullshit statistics from a bullshit researcher. SLA Marshall admitted to making up most of his numbers out of thin air. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That was a shit ton of tracers missing overhead. It is almost like they used them to scare folks. Read Grossman's book On Killing. Most war is nothing more than shooting over people's heads. It's fascinating. grossman was full of shit. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 2:47:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is your experience in these matters other than passing opinions developed officer persons opinions? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I like how Vietnam's our ally now.TThatsactually kinda neat. I guess we need to slaughter a million of any country and they'll love us for it. What is your experience in these matters other than passing opinions developed officer persons opinions? |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 3:20:37 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Against peer enemies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Insurgents are not always stupid. People assume they have no game...but at times, they do things well. Against peer enemies. In all these third world videos of attacks it always looks to me like whoever fires first wins because the other side just runs away. I've never seen an attack against any group who stand and hold the line. None of them ever aim. Walking over open ground shooting in the air Again with no direct experience just of a few visits to Africa I'd bet if there was even a few people standing their ground the attackers would have turned tail and ran too. They don't like it up em. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 5:31:08 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty tight for CAS. Timeline was just too short. 2-3 minutes? They needed a fucking 240 on a tripod and they would have been OK. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Some artillery would have ended the snack bars day. Or some CAS. Pretty tight for CAS. Timeline was just too short. 2-3 minutes? They needed a fucking 240 on a tripod and they would have been OK. LOL. CAS inside 72 hours. LOL. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 5:38:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would 10-20 any Kenyan soldiers putting out accurate fire have been able to slow shabaab's roll? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Discipline. Never go below 1/3 security if contact is possible. 50/50 if probable. Security = dudes behind their weapons scanning their sectors. LP/OP's are not a new invention. They're actually pretty good at detecting infiltration...especially if there are vehicles. Not to be an asshole, but that entire Kenyan unit committed suicide by failing to adhere to basic discipline, let alone established doctrinal priorities of work in the defense. Does not excuse the bad guys, but you shouldn't make it easy for them either. Would 10-20 any Kenyan soldiers putting out accurate fire have been able to slow shabaab's roll? Yes. |
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Posted: 4/23/2016 7:58:10 AM EDT
[#41]
Well, that was a total shit show. The Kenyan forces were totally clueless and they paid for that with their lives. I wonder if they even do predeployment work up's or just throw their units out there. Their armor was totally useless, none of the vehicles ever even fired a shot. That Dshk machine gun in the Kenyan position looked so rusted I wonder if it would even fire?
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Posted: 4/23/2016 8:13:02 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In 2012 we turned over a fob to the ANP a few clicks South of the kajaki dam, the Taliban overan them in them in less than a week after american and british forces spent a decade in PA. Waiting to rotate back home I got to see a dozen dune coons do atleast $60,000,000 in damage on our airstrip. Forgive me if I don't believe we won this war.
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Posted: 4/24/2016 10:18:28 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do not read this book. Grossman has never been in combat and the study he based it on was a fabrication. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Read Grossman's book On Killing. Most war is nothing more than shooting over people's heads. It's fascinating. Do not read this book. Grossman has never been in combat and the study he based it on was a fabrication. Was that the book where he claimed that only 8-10% of the men were doing the shooting-to-kill, and the other 90%-ish were deliberately shooting too high or low because they "didn't want to kill anybody," or some such? |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 10:26:31 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can see the guy at the end realize his fate  I can't imagine how utterly fucked that guy must have felt. |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 10:38:25 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, that was a total shit show. The Kenyan forces were totally clueless and they paid for that with their lives. I wonder if they even do predeployment work up's or just throw their units out there. Their armor was totally useless, none of the vehicles ever even fired a shot. That Dshk machine gun in the Kenyan position looked so rusted I wonder if it would even fire? Right in the middle of Indian country. |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 10:54:58 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, looks almost like the Kenyans just plopped this camp with no planning whatsoever. Right in the middle of Indian country. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, that was a total shit show. The Kenyan forces were totally clueless and they paid for that with their lives. I wonder if they even do predeployment work up's or just throw their units out there. Their armor was totally useless, none of the vehicles ever even fired a shot. That Dshk machine gun in the Kenyan position looked so rusted I wonder if it would even fire? Right in the middle of Indian country. Um. Thats the whole idea. |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 11:05:37 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Um. Thats the whole idea. . Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, that was a total shit show. The Kenyan forces were totally clueless and they paid for that with their lives. I wonder if they even do predeployment work up's or just throw their units out there. Their armor was totally useless, none of the vehicles ever even fired a shot. That Dshk machine gun in the Kenyan position looked so rusted I wonder if it would even fire? Right in the middle of Indian country. Um. Thats the whole idea. . The whole idea? looked like it was to die without resistance or run away. |
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Posted: 4/24/2016 11:07:28 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The whole idea? looked like it was to die without resistance or run away. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, that was a total shit show. The Kenyan forces were totally clueless and they paid for that with their lives. I wonder if they even do predeployment work up's or just throw their units out there. Their armor was totally useless, none of the vehicles ever even fired a shot. That Dshk machine gun in the Kenyan position looked so rusted I wonder if it would even fire? Right in the middle of Indian country. Um. Thats the whole idea. . The whole idea? looked like it was to die without resistance or run away. Addressing the point of the location of the COP, not the way in which they defended it. You know, the part I highlighted.
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Posted: 4/24/2016 11:10:46 AM EDT
[#49]
My bad, nevermind
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Posted: 4/24/2016 11:39:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The whole idea? looked like it was to die without resistance or run away. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Well, that was a total shit show. The Kenyan forces were totally clueless and they paid for that with their lives. I wonder if they even do predeployment work up's or just throw their units out there. Their armor was totally useless, none of the vehicles ever even fired a shot. That Dshk machine gun in the Kenyan position looked so rusted I wonder if it would even fire? Right in the middle of Indian country. Um. Thats the whole idea. . The whole idea? looked like it was to die without resistance or run away. A COP or Combat OutPost is supposed to be placed in enemy territory so it disrupts all enemy operations and forces them to engage or move. |
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