9mm > 40 short and weak

Fad.

9mm FTW.

But this is America, and I support your right to pay more, for more recoil, less capacity, and no difference in terminal performance.

And...  I'm transitioning to 9mm.

Been  a .40 fan for years and years, but really don't see the point with modern bullet technology.

I thought all the 9mm fans say that the recoil is too harsh. So how can it be weak and too powerful at the same time?

 

And the advancements in bullet technology that has improved the 9mm and .45 ACP haven't been applied.to the .40 S&W?

 

9mm is of those who can't handle the .40 and girls

Superior penetration of intermediate barriers.

.45 is for those that still think "Talkies" are a fad.

 

In.

I own and enjoy the 9mm, .40 and .45.  The reason I own a .40 is because whenever I couldn't find 9mm and .45 in stores, there was .40 available on the shelf.

+1, besides it's SUPPOSED to be "10mm Short & Weak"

Be interesting to see where it is in another 25.   I got into it for uspsa , and it has treated me well there.

I did get to see its terminal performance on tissue once, with the LE branded "black talon" type bullet.
Bullet worked as it should have, and a one shot stop was the result, DRT.  It was a large prairie dog.

maybe the 40 don't need no improvements, huh FL boy?


just messing with you.  Hey use the Arfcom answer, get one of each.

Nicely stated.

 

The round marketed to people too indecisive to choose between 9mm and .45 and too effeminate to shoot full power 10MM.

About to leave the house. CCW is a G23 with 14 rounds of PDX1 in it.

Didn't see the need for it then. It was a cure for a problem that didn't exist. Feel the same 25 years later.

I own various handgun clarinets including 40 S&W. My first gun was a G23. Is it my favorite caliber to shoot? No, but it has it's place.

 

 

Lots of pre-owned .40 will be hitting the market as many LEO depts are dumping .40 for 9mm

Why?

It's still only a pistol round with pistol terminal ballistics and permanent cavity wounding mechanisms.

Albeit with more recoil and slower follow up shots.



.40 and .45 are both worse than 9mm due to the above, but 10mm is somehow preferable because it is the fist of death?

Because the law of momentum doesn't apply?

 






 

That "mod bullet tech" works both ways, the 40 has also benefitted.

GTFO of here with your common sense logic, GD  ain't got no time fo dat.  I'll never understand the butthurt when it comes to pistol calibers.  I have both, and love my .40's.

We have been carrying Glock 22 .40sw for approximately 20 years.

Nearly 2,000 sworn in my city and most own a G27 as off-duty

The guns work and the cartridge has performed great in a lot of shootings.

I've worked in jeans and t-shirt for the last 15 years and I can carry any quality gun (except single action) that I qualify with.

Winter: Glock 35 and summer Glock 23

Gun Shop Counter Guy:  You have 2 choices for yer jam-o-matic, 9mm for your wife, or .45 American Caliber Pistol.
Buyer: Uhh... I can't decide..  how about that caliber in the middle??



Seriously.. it is a good mix of power, capacity, and performance. Why not?

.40 is by far my favorite pistol caliber for self defence but I'm currently carrying a .45 because I like the particular pistol better both for shooting and concealment.

I choose the gun over the caliber so long as its a service caliber.

Damn......10mm IS the fist of death.

These folks are GTG. IIRC they use flat rate shipping. I almost ordered but I have nearly 1700 sized and primed pieces of .40S&W brass I've picked up over the years and probably a year's worth of reloading before I order any other components. eta: they have a couple of other bullet weights offered.

It just happens to be that the majority of guns I like to carry are chambered in .40 S&W.

 

Why do the 9mm fans have such a hatred for the .40sw

 

This is said often, but you still can't get around physics.  The recoil some complain about also serves on the other end. Also 40/10mm bullets weren't excluded from this magic you speak of.   For those that shoot subsonic it's no contest... 40 is a better caliber.  I shoot both and for certain apps prefer the 9mm, but in my testing the 40 hits harder, penetrates deeper and will better serve the suppressor/hunting crowd.

Just look at the fucking 10mm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The real answer is to stock up so you don't depend on the stores.

Dumped my only .40 gun years ago.  Too much ammo sprawl to stock.  Modern 9mm does just as well, and is a lot cheaper to stack deep.  Now in pistol calibers I only have 9mm, .45, and 10mm.

Correct answer if you want 40 cal is 10mm.  

Because I have both....

 

I already have 9mm and .45 caliber handguns.
I'm satisfied with the performance of both.
That being said..........












,,,,,,,,,I don't need another caliber to stock up on.

Ayup.  10mm a bigger frame to handle the higher loads.  I don't see the point in carrying 10mm weaksauce ammo.  At that point you may as well carry .40 in a smaller gun.  For that matter, then may as well go 9mm.  Can get 9mm factory brass FMJ ammo for 20 cpr.  Stock up!

Get the hottest loads for 10mm when you want a bigger bullet.  

.40 has stood the test of time , I jumped on board early with a Glock 23 in 1991.

The people that say 9mm is a better choice are being very selective ...if you actually read The "test"  reports - certain 9mm ammo offers similar performance as .40 with less recoil . Not one report says 9mm is better across the board .

Also love it when the same Internet commando says 9mm for the win, and also owns a 10mm .

If you google .40 vs 10mm - Some 40 ammo is close to performance of  factory 10mm. You can make stats say whatever you want .

Some agencies want to make a switch and made studies support what they wanted to do.

Fact anything 9mm or larger  will do a decent job if you have decent ammo and palace your shot

Heh, the first 10mm was fired on July 16th, 1945 in White Sands, New Mexico. Less than a month later, 10mm was used against the Japanese, bringing a swift end to WWII.

Sure it has.

(The following is my thoughts and speculation based on what research I have done. I’m not a doctor and I know it shows. Take it for what it’s worth.)

In a defensive shooting the goal is rapid incapacitation and this is hard to achieve with a bullet. The human body consists of some 100 trillion cells which are all independently alive. You can only instantly incapacitate a human by seriously damaging the control centers, meaning the brain and upper central nervous system. You can rapidly incapacitate a human by disrupting the ability of the circulatory system to supply those 100 trillion cells with the oxygen they need to function. Outside of damaging the heart so severely it can’t function, the best way to do that is to punch large holes in the bad guy causing blood loss.

It’s also possible to instantly incapacitate someone by overloading them with pain or by their own psychological conditioning taking them out of the fight. But these methods depend on the state of mind and conditioning of the target and therefore can’t be relied on. Things like temporary stretch cavity might increase the pain the target feels and might increase the chances he will take himself out of the fight. Or it might do nothing.

Shot placement is critical, but good shot placement is very hard to achieve in the dynamics of an actual gunfight. Usually multiple shots are required to score a good hit on the bad guy.

So what that leaves us with in the caliber debate is really how easy is it to rapidly fire shots at the bad guy and how much blood loss will be caused by the bullets. Light recoiling bullets with high capacity magazines therefore have an advantage.

The human body has some self-sealing ability. Slow moving round nosed .355 or .357 bullets probably don’t punch a big enough hole in the bad guy to completely defeat this self-sealing ability. You will bleed out and die from a .38 special round nosed bullet but not as fast as you will from a .452 caliber round nosed bullet or from a .40 round nosed bullet for that matter. Remember that the tissue stretches as the bullet cuts through it and then rebounds back, partly sealing the wound.

Semi wadcutter designs cause more tearing in flesh which is why they are somewhat more effective than round nosed bullets. Hollow points which don’t expand mimic semi wadcutter bullets and are also more effective.

But, with modern bullets those .355 caliber rounds spread out to somewhere between .5 and .7 inches. A 9mm Gold Dot is putting a bigger a hole in the bad guy than a .45 FMJ round. Granted, a .45 or a .40 caliber hollowpoint will expand out somewhat more and create an even larger wound channel. The thing is, you have already defeated much of the body’s self-sealing ability with the 9mm. Slightly increasing the size of the bullet hole probably won’t significantly increase blood loss. Sever a mid-sized artery with that 9mm hollow point hit and it’s bleeding at maximum capacity. Do the same with a .45 hollowpoint and that same artery isn’t bleeding any faster than it did before.

Given the greater capacity and lower recoil of a 9mm it is the better choice. That being said, the .40 is very close behind in terms of capacity and low recoil, at least in full sized guns. The .45 gives up a fair amount in capacity but, in reality, it probably has enough ammo with between 9 and 11 rounds to get through a fight. And the recoil is still low enough to allow for some very rapid fire.

All of them are perfectly fine cartridges, it’s just that the modern 9mm has the edge… at least until you get in a position where you have to make do with substandard ammo. This isn’t a big problem if you make a point of keeping an appropriate stockpile of good ammo on hand at all times.

I encourage folks to look at look at ammo manufacturer like Underwood, that will get everything they can out of a cartridge.  To say Underwood 9mm is the same as Underwood 40 is disingenuous.  How many 9mms come close to 623 ft/lbs (in a 4.5" barrel)?......Underwood can't get any of their 9 nearly as hot as the 40.  The 9mm is certainly better than it once was, but there are still advantages to the 40 if you are objective about it.


Underwood 135gr 40S&W