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Posted: 1/31/2015 10:53:39 AM EDT
[#1]
Been carrying .40 S&W as a CCW since I turned 21. Been carrying .40 S&W on duty for 9 years straight as a cop. I don't see myself changing anytime soon. The .40 S&W is an excellent cartridge for barrier penetration. In a Glock 22 I get 15rds per magazine. I get better performance than a 9mm in a platform the same exact size as a 9mm pistol.
Why the hell would I switch to a weaker round? The recoil isn't harsh, the cartridge isn't weak, amd the capacity isn't reduced. It is fucking PERFECT.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:06:20 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Been carrying .40 S&W as a CCW since I turned 21. Been carrying .40 S&W on duty for 9 years straight as a cop. I don't see myself changing anytime soon. The .40 S&W is an excellent cartridge for barrier penetration. In a Glock 22 I get 15rds per magazine. I get better performance than a 9mm in a platform the same exact size as a 9mm pistol. Why the hell would I switch to a weaker round? The recoil isn't harsh, the cartridge isn't weak, amd the capacity isn't reduced. It is fucking PERFECT. 90's tech. Back then, it was perfect. Rock out with the mullet, IROC-Z, Members Only jacket and a .40. Tons of tail. If you're deeply invested in .40, sure why change. If not, stay far away from the fleabay auctions of that old-school stuff and embrace modern tech. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:10:04 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 90's tech. Back then, it was perfect. Rock out with the mullet, IROC-Z, Members Only jacket and a .40. Tons of tail. If you're deeply invested in .40, sure why change. If not, stay far away from the fleabay auctions of that old-school stuff and embrace modern tech. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Been carrying .40 S&W as a CCW since I turned 21. Been carrying .40 S&W on duty for 9 years straight as a cop. I don't see myself changing anytime soon. The .40 S&W is an excellent cartridge for barrier penetration. In a Glock 22 I get 15rds per magazine. I get better performance than a 9mm in a platform the same exact size as a 9mm pistol. Why the hell would I switch to a weaker round? The recoil isn't harsh, the cartridge isn't weak, amd the capacity isn't reduced. It is fucking PERFECT. 90's tech. Back then, it was perfect. Rock out with the mullet, IROC-Z, Members Only jacket and a .40. Tons of tail. If you're deeply invested in .40, sure why change. If not, stay far away from the fleabay auctions of that old-school stuff and embrace modern tech. This is old school testing info and yet it still holds true today. Just with better expansion and more penetration.  My Glock 22 and the cartridge it shoots isn't going anywhere for a long time. .40 S&W is here to stay until we go to phased palsma rifles and pistols in the 40 watt range.  |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:11:37 AM EDT
[#4]
I had nine 40s at one time. Now I have none. I wouldn't mind having another G23.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:12:16 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now imagine how better the world would be if the FBI were not a bunch of limp wristed girly-men and adopted the 10mm instead. Indeed. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:13:19 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Been carrying .40 S&W as a CCW since I turned 21. Been carrying .40 S&W on duty for 9 years straight as a cop. I don't see myself changing anytime soon. The .40 S&W is an excellent cartridge for barrier penetration. In a Glock 22 I get 15rds per magazine. I get better performance than a 9mm in a platform the same exact size as a 9mm pistol. Why the hell would I switch to a weaker round? The recoil isn't harsh, the cartridge isn't weak, amd the capacity isn't reduced. It is fucking PERFECT. Serious question..........on your job you wouldn't rather have a 10mm? |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:13:52 AM EDT
[#7]
FP sucks
 ...
I chose my .40's based on ballistics and what professionals use. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:15:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So modern bullet technology hasn't been applied to the .40 S&W cartridge? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Been carrying .40 S&W as a CCW since I turned 21. Been carrying .40 S&W on duty for 9 years straight as a cop. I don't see myself changing anytime soon. The .40 S&W is an excellent cartridge for barrier penetration. In a Glock 22 I get 15rds per magazine. I get better performance than a 9mm in a platform the same exact size as a 9mm pistol. Why the hell would I switch to a weaker round? The recoil isn't harsh, the cartridge isn't weak, amd the capacity isn't reduced. It is fucking PERFECT. 90's tech. Back then, it was perfect. Rock out with the mullet, IROC-Z, Members Only jacket and a .40. Tons of tail. If you're deeply invested in .40, sure why change. If not, stay far away from the fleabay auctions of that old-school stuff and embrace modern tech. This is old school testing info and yet it still holds true today. Just with better expansion and more penetration. My Glock 22 and the cartridge it shoots isn't going anywhere for a long time. .40 S&W is here to stay until we go to phased palsma rifles and pistols in the 40 watt range. Yes, it's been applied to the .40 as well. It's been applied to all the major calibers. However, when all the major service calibers are developed with that tech to meet a certain performance standard (which they have), and all are capable of meeting and exceeding that standard (which they are), why bother with the drawbacks of .40, .45, and .357SIG when they can't do anything appreciably better than 9mm for duty or self defense purposes? |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:16:21 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do the 9mm fans have such a hatred for the .40sw They all suffer from weak wristed girlie man syndrome; they hate strong wristed manly men. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:17:12 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So modern bullet technology hasn't been applied to the .40 S&W cartridge? This is old school testing info and yet it still holds true today. Just with better expansion and more penetration. http://pprnnews.prepperpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/zemanta/JHP.png My Glock 22 and the cartridge it shoots isn't going anywhere for a long time. .40 S&W is here to stay until we go to phased palsma rifles and pistols in the 40 watt range. http://i.imgur.com/czYoVY4.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Been carrying .40 S&W as a CCW since I turned 21. Been carrying .40 S&W on duty for 9 years straight as a cop. I don't see myself changing anytime soon. The .40 S&W is an excellent cartridge for barrier penetration. In a Glock 22 I get 15rds per magazine. I get better performance than a 9mm in a platform the same exact size as a 9mm pistol. Why the hell would I switch to a weaker round? The recoil isn't harsh, the cartridge isn't weak, amd the capacity isn't reduced. It is fucking PERFECT. 90's tech. Back then, it was perfect. Rock out with the mullet, IROC-Z, Members Only jacket and a .40. Tons of tail. If you're deeply invested in .40, sure why change. If not, stay far away from the fleabay auctions of that old-school stuff and embrace modern tech. This is old school testing info and yet it still holds true today. Just with better expansion and more penetration. http://pprnnews.prepperpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/zemanta/JHP.png My Glock 22 and the cartridge it shoots isn't going anywhere for a long time. .40 S&W is here to stay until we go to phased palsma rifles and pistols in the 40 watt range. http://i.imgur.com/czYoVY4.jpg The guy who's ballistic test you're citing carries a 9mm. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:23:05 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The guy who's ballistic test you're citing carries a 9mm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Been carrying .40 S&W as a CCW since I turned 21. Been carrying .40 S&W on duty for 9 years straight as a cop. I don't see myself changing anytime soon. The .40 S&W is an excellent cartridge for barrier penetration. In a Glock 22 I get 15rds per magazine. I get better performance than a 9mm in a platform the same exact size as a 9mm pistol. Why the hell would I switch to a weaker round? The recoil isn't harsh, the cartridge isn't weak, amd the capacity isn't reduced. It is fucking PERFECT. 90's tech. Back then, it was perfect. Rock out with the mullet, IROC-Z, Members Only jacket and a .40. Tons of tail. If you're deeply invested in .40, sure why change. If not, stay far away from the fleabay auctions of that old-school stuff and embrace modern tech. This is old school testing info and yet it still holds true today. Just with better expansion and more penetration. http://pprnnews.prepperpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/zemanta/JHP.png My Glock 22 and the cartridge it shoots isn't going anywhere for a long time. .40 S&W is here to stay until we go to phased palsma rifles and pistols in the 40 watt range. http://i.imgur.com/czYoVY4.jpg The guy who's ballistic test you're citing carries a 9mm. That much seen graphic, that's been posted so many thousands of times on the Internet, was actually created by Winchester Ammunition as a comparison between the ammunition they offer. Everyone and their sons and uncles has lifted that old graphic from Winchester. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:23:18 AM EDT
[#12]
Even LE is starting to get it.
You can't throw a rock on the "gun internet" without hitting an ad for dirt-cheap LE trade in guns in 10MM Kurtz. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:24:46 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Serious question..........on your job you wouldn't rather have a 10mm? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Been carrying .40 S&W as a CCW since I turned 21. Been carrying .40 S&W on duty for 9 years straight as a cop. I don't see myself changing anytime soon. The .40 S&W is an excellent cartridge for barrier penetration. In a Glock 22 I get 15rds per magazine. I get better performance than a 9mm in a platform the same exact size as a 9mm pistol. Why the hell would I switch to a weaker round? The recoil isn't harsh, the cartridge isn't weak, amd the capacity isn't reduced. It is fucking PERFECT. Serious question..........on your job you wouldn't rather have a 10mm? Yes and No.... I would like to have the option but more than likely I'd still carry the .40 S&W. It would depend on what I'm doing. If it was 100% Highway Patrol work. 10mm Auto would be fine.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:26:47 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes and No.... I would like to have the option but more than likely I'd still carry the .40 S&W. It would depend on what I'm doing. If it was 100% Highway Patrol work. 10mm Auto would be fine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Been carrying .40 S&W as a CCW since I turned 21. Been carrying .40 S&W on duty for 9 years straight as a cop. I don't see myself changing anytime soon. The .40 S&W is an excellent cartridge for barrier penetration. In a Glock 22 I get 15rds per magazine. I get better performance than a 9mm in a platform the same exact size as a 9mm pistol. Why the hell would I switch to a weaker round? The recoil isn't harsh, the cartridge isn't weak, amd the capacity isn't reduced. It is fucking PERFECT. Serious question..........on your job you wouldn't rather have a 10mm? Yes and No.... I would like to have the option but more than likely I'd still carry the .40 S&W. It would depend on what I'm doing. If it was 100% Highway Patrol work. 10mm Auto would be fine. I am just a layman and for the life of me I have never really understood why the 10mm didn't stay and why the .40 S&W was necessary. I mean if someone can fire a .40 S&W they can fire a 10mm IMHO. Oh well, I ain't a LEO or military. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:27:21 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That much seen graphic, that's been posted so many thousands of times on the Internet, was actually created by Winchester Ammunition as a comparison between the ammunition they offer. Everyone and their sons and uncles has lifted that graphic from Winchester. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Been carrying .40 S&W as a CCW since I turned 21. Been carrying .40 S&W on duty for 9 years straight as a cop. I don't see myself changing anytime soon. The .40 S&W is an excellent cartridge for barrier penetration. In a Glock 22 I get 15rds per magazine. I get better performance than a 9mm in a platform the same exact size as a 9mm pistol. Why the hell would I switch to a weaker round? The recoil isn't harsh, the cartridge isn't weak, amd the capacity isn't reduced. It is fucking PERFECT. 90's tech. Back then, it was perfect. Rock out with the mullet, IROC-Z, Members Only jacket and a .40. Tons of tail. If you're deeply invested in .40, sure why change. If not, stay far away from the fleabay auctions of that old-school stuff and embrace modern tech. This is old school testing info and yet it still holds true today. Just with better expansion and more penetration. http://pprnnews.prepperpodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/zemanta/JHP.png My Glock 22 and the cartridge it shoots isn't going anywhere for a long time. .40 S&W is here to stay until we go to phased palsma rifles and pistols in the 40 watt range. http://i.imgur.com/czYoVY4.jpg The guy who's ballistic test you're citing carries a 9mm. That much seen graphic, that's been posted so many thousands of times on the Internet, was actually created by Winchester Ammunition as a comparison between the ammunition they offer. Everyone and their sons and uncles has lifted that graphic from Winchester. Which just so happens to be thag is what I carry.  |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:27:41 AM EDT
[#16]
I would be more inclined to jump on the 40 hate train if the 9 performed equally as well as the 40 in all areas (ie barrier). However it doesn't so there is a place for it. If that is a meaningful difference can only be decided by each person for themselves.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:28:44 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am just a layman and for the life of me I have never really understood why the 10mm didn't stay and why the .40 S&W was necessary. I mean if someone can fire a .40 S&W they can fire a 10mm IMHO. Oh well, I ain't a LEO or military. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Been carrying .40 S&W as a CCW since I turned 21. Been carrying .40 S&W on duty for 9 years straight as a cop. I don't see myself changing anytime soon. The .40 S&W is an excellent cartridge for barrier penetration. In a Glock 22 I get 15rds per magazine. I get better performance than a 9mm in a platform the same exact size as a 9mm pistol. Why the hell would I switch to a weaker round? The recoil isn't harsh, the cartridge isn't weak, amd the capacity isn't reduced. It is fucking PERFECT. Serious question..........on your job you wouldn't rather have a 10mm? Yes and No.... I would like to have the option but more than likely I'd still carry the .40 S&W. It would depend on what I'm doing. If it was 100% Highway Patrol work. 10mm Auto would be fine. I am just a layman and for the life of me I have never really understood why the 10mm didn't stay and why the .40 S&W was necessary. I mean if someone can fire a .40 S&W they can fire a 10mm IMHO. Oh well, I ain't a LEO or military. Some agents with little hands (ie: women) couldn't handle the recoil of full house 10mm, nor the additional grip frame size. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:28:54 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am just a layman and for the life of me I have never really understood why the 10mm didn't stay and why the .40 S&W was necessary. I mean if someone can fire a .40 S&W they can fire a 10mm IMHO. Oh well, I ain't a LEO or military. It had as much to do with what size gun you needed to hold the 10mm than the people shooting it. The 10mm needs a ".45-sized" frame, while the 10mmK fits in the same size envelope as most 9mm guns. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:32:54 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.................... Some agents with little hands (ie: women) couldn't handle the recoil of full house 10mm, nor the additional grip frame size. I have read that but have a difficult time accepting it because I have seen women fire larger framed guns without much problem. Practice!! And the .40 SW can be quite snappy on recoil. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:33:38 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
........... It had as much to do with what size gun you needed to hold the 10mm than the people shooting it. The 10mm needs a ".45-sized" frame, while the 10mmK fits in the same size envelope as most 9mm guns. Yes........it does take a larger frame. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:34:53 AM EDT
[#21]
Doesn't seem like its been around that long, guess I am getting old.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:35:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doesn't seem like its been around that long, guess I am getting old. Yeah, I was old when it came out!! |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:36:06 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Now imagine how better the world would be if the FBI were not a bunch of limp wristed girly-men and adopted the 10mm instead. Why? It's still only a pistol round with pistol terminal ballistics and permanent cavity wounding mechanisms. Albeit with more recoil and slower follow up shots. .40 and .45 are both worse than 9mm due to the above, but 10mm is somehow preferable because it is the fist of death? http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww344/Jhatmaker24/10mm-1.jpg 
230 grains going in 13 inches beats 180 grains going in 13 1/2 inches. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:52:57 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 230 grains going in 13 inches beats 180 grains going in 13 1/2 inches. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Now imagine how better the world would be if the FBI were not a bunch of limp wristed girly-men and adopted the 10mm instead. Why? It's still only a pistol round with pistol terminal ballistics and permanent cavity wounding mechanisms. Albeit with more recoil and slower follow up shots. .40 and .45 are both worse than 9mm due to the above, but 10mm is somehow preferable because it is the fist of death? http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww344/Jhatmaker24/10mm-1.jpg 230 grains going in 13 inches beats 180 grains going in 13 1/2 inches. Except not. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 11:57:27 AM EDT
[#25]
I bought a 22 because I ran into a glock trade in at a price I liked.
Bought some bonded 40s&w hp ammo late last year because it was at a price I had been paying for ball ammo. When I run across a 17 at a similar price I will probably pick one up, but right now I know there are more 22s out there for about what I paid or a bit less. I don't get excited trying to say x round will do everything. Heck, various platforms do different things better depending on my preferences. I rather like the ammo capacity and bullet weight of the 40s&w. Back when I owned a bunch of 9mm stuff I was always reading about different weight bullets at different speeds and trying to figure out what would perform best for my wants and needs. It kind of reminds me of 223 and different weight bullets and different rifle twists and different barrel lengths and blah blah blah. Now one 9mm I will probably pick up is a pocket gun as they show up on the used market. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:24:53 PM EDT
[#26]
Still sticking with .40 S&W.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:54:50 PM EDT
[#27]
25 years? That's nice sweetie.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 12:58:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
230 grains going in 13 inches beats 180 grains going in 13 1/2 inches. How exactly? How does pure mass lend itself to incapacitation potential.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:01:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: The .40 S&W was introduced to the shooting public on January 17th, 1990 at Shot Show. This year marks it's 25th birthday. For a cartridge that took the shooting world by storm in such a small period of time, I'd have to say it is awesome and I see it staying around for a hell of a lot longer. Sure, it has its haters. But even you folks have to admit. It isn't going to the dust bin of history. It is here to to stay. Of all the flash in the pan cartridges released over the years, the .40 S&W isn't one. The first Agency to adopt the .40 S&W in the world was the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, otherwise know as SLED SLED adopted the Glock 22 and Glock 23 around May of that year. From there, the rest is history. Right now, the .40 S&W is still in service across the world as a LE and Military cartridge. So in the end... HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO THE PERFECT CARTRIDGE... THE .40 S&W! I am 99% sure that you are incorrect on which state police agency was the first one to adopt the .40. You claimed it was South Carolina. However, I think they were, in fact, the second state agency to adopt the .40 whereas the California Highway Patrol was the first. The CHP used the S&W 4006 whereas South Carolina was the first agency to use the Glock 22. IIRC, both the Colorado State Police and Mississippi Highway Patrol quickly followed suit in adopting the .40, as well, and, like California, I think both of them adopted the 4006 as their choice of sidearm, too. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:04:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And... I'm transitioning to 9mm. Been a .40 fan for years and years, but really don't see the point with modern bullet technology. I have both , it is all about the availability of the amo. Here in Connecticut the only round available for awhile was the .40. Everyday carry is my 9 mm Shield but for home defense in the middle of the night , its the full size .40 with large capacity magazines and a laser. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:07:26 PM EDT
[#31]
It's an amazing story. Disappointed by the 9mm, the Fan Belt Inspectors went to the 10mm which proved too powerful for some agents. S&W took the law enforcement community by storm when they came out with its compromise bullet. Bigger bullet at slightly less magazine capacity than the 9mm.
I never went to the 40 S&W and stuck with the 45 ACP as a duty sidearm. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:13:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryThat's nice... it was cutting edge when this was cutting edge.     |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:14:50 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The .40 S&W was introduced to the shooting public on January 17th, 1990 at Shot Show. This year marks it's 25th birthday. For a cartridge that took the shooting world by storm in such a small period of time, I'd have to say it is awesome and I see it staying around for a hell of a lot longer. Sure, it has its haters. But even you folks have to admit. It isn't going to the dust bin of history. It is here to to stay. Of all the flash in the pan cartridges released over the years, the .40 S&W isn't one. The first Agency to adopt the .40 S&W in the world was the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, otherwise know as SLED SLED adopted the Glock 22 and Glock 23 around May of that year. From there, the rest is history. Right now, the .40 S&W is still in service across the world as a LE and Military cartridge. So in the end... HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO THE PERFECT CARTRIDGE... THE .40 S&W! I am 99% sure that you are incorrect on which state police agency was the first one to adopt the .40. You claimed it was South Carolina. However, I think they were, in fact, the second state agency to adopt the .40 whereas the California Highway Patrol was the first. The CHP used the S&W 4006 whereas South Carolina was the first agency to use the Glock 22. IIRC, both the Colorado State Police and Mississippi Highway Patrol quickly followed suit in adopting the .40, as well, and, like California, I think both of them adopted the 4006 as their choice of sidearm, too. The history behind the cartridge is damn interesting as is how Glock beat S&W to the punch. S&W and Winchester had some cartridges and cartridge casings on display at Shot Show. Glock Reps noticed it and actually got hold of a case or two at the show. They then went and designed the Glock 22 and released it months before S&W released the 4006 on the market. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:15:39 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's nice... it was cutting edge when this was cutting edge. http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-IH166333.jpg?size=67&uid=3ba8bbe3-97ab-4918-87cd-11b15e75df3d http://www.earlyamericanautomobiles.com/images/autos2114.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/WrightFlyer1904Circling.jpg https://armyatwoundedknee.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/the-cavalier.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
25 years? That's nice sweetie. http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2015/01/P1010106-1.jpg That's nice... it was cutting edge when this was cutting edge. http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-IH166333.jpg?size=67&uid=3ba8bbe3-97ab-4918-87cd-11b15e75df3d http://www.earlyamericanautomobiles.com/images/autos2114.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/WrightFlyer1904Circling.jpg https://armyatwoundedknee.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/the-cavalier.jpg At least it was cutting edge at one point, unlike the .40. 
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:23:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The round marketed to people too indecisive to choose between 9mm and .45 and too effeminate to shoot full power 10MM. 
Mmmhmmm. Kinda like the .223, right? 
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:24:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At least it was cutting edge at one point, unlike the .40. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's nice... it was cutting edge when this was cutting edge. http://www.corbisimages.com/images/Corbis-IH166333.jpg?size=67&uid=3ba8bbe3-97ab-4918-87cd-11b15e75df3d http://www.earlyamericanautomobiles.com/images/autos2114.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/WrightFlyer1904Circling.jpg https://armyatwoundedknee.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/the-cavalier.jpg At least it was cutting edge at one point, unlike the .40. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:29:20 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure, it has its haters. But even you folks have to admit. It isn't going to the dust bin of history. It is here to to stay. Of all the flash in the pan cartridges released over the years, the .40 S&W isn't one. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The .40 S&W was introduced to the shooting public on January 17th, 1990 at Shot Show. This year marks it's 25th birthday. For a cartridge that took the shooting world by storm in such a small period of time, I'd have to say it is awesome and I see it staying around for a hell of a lot longer. Sure, it has its haters. But even you folks have to admit. It isn't going to the dust bin of history. It is here to to stay. Of all the flash in the pan cartridges released over the years, the .40 S&W isn't one. The first Agency to adopt the .40 S&W in the world was the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, otherwise know as SLED SLED adopted the Glock 22 and Glock 23 around May of that year. From there, the rest is history. Right now, the .40 S&W is still in service across the world as a LE and Military cartridge. So in the end... HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO THE PERFECT CARTRIDGE... THE .40 S&W! I am 99% sure that you are incorrect on which state police agency was the first one to adopt the .40. You claimed it was South Carolina. However, I think they were, in fact, the second state agency to adopt the .40 whereas the California Highway Patrol was the first. The CHP used the S&W 4006 whereas South Carolina was the first agency to use the Glock 22. IIRC, both the Colorado State Police and Mississippi Highway Patrol quickly followed suit in adopting the .40, as well, and, like California, I think both of them adopted the 4006 as their choice of sidearm, too. The history behind the cartridge is damn interesting as is how Glock beat S&W to the punch. S&W and Winchester had some cartridges and cartridge casings on display at Shot Show. Glock Reps noticed it and actually got hold of a case or two at the show. They then went and designed the Glock 22 and released it months before S&W released the 4006 on the market. Yes, all of that is true. However, that wasn't the point of my post. My point was that the CHP (IIRC) was the first state police agency to ever adopt the .40 caliber. South Carolina, Colorado and Mississippi (among many others) would all soon follow California's lead and do the same thing during the early 90's. I first remember reading about the development of the .40 in a december 1989 issue of "Guns & Ammo" magazine (or "Handguns----at this point I don't quite remember anymore). They did a write up and a review on the .40 cartridge, winchester's 180 grain .40 ammo (which would now be considered their "whitebox" or "usa" line of ammo today) and S&W's first two .40 caliber handguns which were the 4006 and 4013. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:37:44 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Glock beat S&W to the punch. The Glock 22 was on the market before the 4006. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The .40 S&W was introduced to the shooting public on January 17th, 1990 at Shot Show. This year marks it's 25th birthday. For a cartridge that took the shooting world by storm in such a small period of time, I'd have to say it is awesome and I see it staying around for a hell of a lot longer. Sure, it has its haters. But even you folks have to admit. It isn't going to the dust bin of history. It is here to to stay. Of all the flash in the pan cartridges released over the years, the .40 S&W isn't one. The first Agency to adopt the .40 S&W in the world was the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, otherwise know as SLED SLED adopted the Glock 22 and Glock 23 around May of that year. From there, the rest is history. Right now, the .40 S&W is still in service across the world as a LE and Military cartridge. So in the end... HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO THE PERFECT CARTRIDGE... THE .40 S&W! I am 99% sure that you are incorrect on which state police agency was the first one to adopt the .40. You claimed it was South Carolina. However, I think they were, in fact, the second state agency to adopt the .40 whereas the California Highway Patrol was the first. The CHP used the S&W 4006 whereas South Carolina was the first agency to use the Glock 22. IIRC, both the Colorado State Police and Mississippi Highway Patrol quickly followed suit in adopting the .40, as well, and, like California, I think both of them adopted the 4006 as their choice of sidearm, too. The history behind the cartridge is damn interesting as is how Glock beat S&W to the punch. S&W and Winchester had some cartridges and cartridge casings on display at Shot Show. Glock Reps noticed it and actually got hold of a case or two at the show. They then went and designed the Glock 22 and released it months before S&W released the 4006 on the market. Yes, all of that is true. However, that wasn't the point of my post. My point was that the CHP (IIRC) was the first state police agency to ever adopt the .40 caliber. South Carolina, Colorado and Mississippi (among many others) would all soon follow California's lead and do the same thing during the early 90's. I first remember reading about the development of the .40 in a december 1989 issue of "Guns & Ammo" magazine (or "Handguns----at this point I don't quite remember anymore). They did a write up and a review on the .40 cartridge, winchester's 180 grain .40 ammo (which would now be considered their "whitebox" or "usa" line of ammo today) and S&W's first two .40 caliber handguns which were the 4006 and 4013. S&W didn't have a 4013 yet in design. In the 1980s they had modified 5906s and custom made 4006 guns but they weren't anything near what the final production was as the 4006. The first production 4013 was a modified 4513 design. No guns on selves yet, no agency adopting it. SLED was the first to adopt the .40 S&W. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:44:18 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The first Agency to adopt the .40 S&W in the world was the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, otherwise know as SLED Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The .40 S&W was introduced to the shooting public on January 17th, 1990 at Shot Show. This year marks it's 25th birthday. For a cartridge that took the shooting world by storm in such a small period of time, I'd have to say it is awesome and I see it staying around for a hell of a lot longer. Sure, it has its haters. But even you folks have to admit. It isn't going to the dust bin of history. It is here to to stay. Of all the flash in the pan cartridges released over the years, the .40 S&W isn't one. The first Agency to adopt the .40 S&W in the world was the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, otherwise know as SLED SLED adopted the Glock 22 and Glock 23 around May of that year. From there, the rest is history. Right now, the .40 S&W is still in service across the world as a LE and Military cartridge. So in the end... HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO THE PERFECT CARTRIDGE... THE .40 S&W! I am 99% sure that you are incorrect on which state police agency was the first one to adopt the .40. You claimed it was South Carolina. However, I think they were, in fact, the second state agency to adopt the .40 whereas the California Highway Patrol was the first. The CHP used the S&W 4006 whereas South Carolina was the first agency to use the Glock 22. IIRC, both the Colorado State Police and Mississippi Highway Patrol quickly followed suit in adopting the .40, as well, and, like California, I think both of them adopted the 4006 as their choice of sidearm, too. The history behind the cartridge is damn interesting as is how Glock beat S&W to the punch. S&W and Winchester had some cartridges and cartridge casings on display at Shot Show. Glock Reps noticed it and actually got hold of a case or two at the show. They then went and designed the Glock 22 and released it months before S&W released the 4006 on the market. Yes, all of that is true. However, that wasn't the point of my post. My point was that the CHP (IIRC) was the first state police agency to ever adopt the .40 caliber. South Carolina, Colorado and Mississippi (among many others) would all soon follow California's lead and do the same thing during the early 90's. I first remember reading about the development of the .40 in a december 1989 issue of "Guns & Ammo" magazine (or "Handguns----at this point I don't quite remember anymore). They did a write up and a review on the .40 cartridge, winchester's 180 grain .40 ammo (which would now be considered their "whitebox" or "usa" line of ammo today) and S&W's first two .40 caliber handguns which were the 4006 and 4013. S&W didn't have a 4013 yet in design. In the 1980s they had modified 5906s and custom made 4006 guns but they weren't anything near what the final production was as the 4006. The first production 4013 was a modified 4513 design. No guns on selves yet, no agency adopting it. SLED was the first to adopt the .40 S&W. Yes, I know. The 4013 was a compact .40 that had a slide mounted safety/decocker and a 9 round magazine, IIRC. ETA: The 4013 may have come out a bit later than the 4006 but, as I recall, they were both some of the earliest .40 caliber pistols on the market. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:45:17 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ayup. 10mm a bigger frame to handle the higher loads. I don't see the point in carrying 10mm weaksauce ammo. At that point you may as well carry .40 in a smaller gun. For that matter, then may as well go 9mm. Can get 9mm factory brass FMJ ammo for 20 cpr. Stock up! Get the hottest loads for 10mm when you want a bigger bullet.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
Quoted:
I own and enjoy the 9mm, .40 and .45. The reason I own a .40 is because whenever I couldn't find 9mm and .45 in stores, there was .40 available on the shelf. The real answer is to stock up so you don't depend on the stores. Dumped my only .40 gun years ago. Too much ammo sprawl to stock. Modern 9mm does just as well, and is a lot cheaper to stack deep. Now in pistol calibers I only have 9mm, .45, and 10mm. Correct answer if you want 40 cal is 10mm. Also .40 S&W and 10mm are different frame size guns. Ayup. 10mm a bigger frame to handle the higher loads. I don't see the point in carrying 10mm weaksauce ammo. At that point you may as well carry .40 in a smaller gun. For that matter, then may as well go 9mm. Can get 9mm factory brass FMJ ammo for 20 cpr. Stock up! Get the hottest loads for 10mm when you want a bigger bullet. This new "wonder-technology" has turned .355 FMJ into a killing machine??? I assumed it was in reference to premium hollowpoints at .60-.80 cents/ round, and that everyone was buying it by the truckload. Who'da thunk it... |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:45:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now imagine how better the world would be if the FBI were not a bunch of limp wristed girly-men and adopted the 10mm instead. SPNI |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:48:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SPNI Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Now imagine how better the world would be if the FBI were not a bunch of limp wristed girly-men and adopted the 10mm instead. SPNI    |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:49:56 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now imagine how better the world would be if the FBI were not a bunch of limp wristed girly-men and adopted the 10mm instead. As a 40 and 9 owner, I agree. Good thing I have a real handgun in the 357. Since it looks like the 10 market is increasing slightly enough to make me think it won't die, I may help it in the near future by getting one. I'm not in a big hurry, though since I have enough (almost too much) caliber diversity for the time being.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 1:57:39 PM EDT
[#44]
A bullshit cartridge, with a purely political origin.
Before there ever was a 40 S&W, we had the 41 Action Express. It does the same job, with a much smarter approach. There were very nice CZ 75 style pistols, that came with an extra barrel & magazines - you simply swapped the barrel & shot cheap 9mm to practice, then went back to 41 AE for carry. The FBI started down the 10mm road, and found out the agents they had to let in because of PC could not handle it. They had 10mm ammo downloaded, and finally went in search of a less powerful (and smaller) platform. There was no way in hell that S&W wanted to compete with a CZ75. The shitty S&W autos had already had their asses kicked by Beretta over the M9, just 5 years earlier. So they greased the right palms / paid lobbyists / etc. to convince the FBI to buy a new cartridge that was .010 smaller in diameter The original IMI loading for the 41AE was a 170 grain bullet @ 1215 fps The only good thing to come from the 40S&W was the 357 Sig. . |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 2:05:42 PM EDT
[#45]
Nope.
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Posted: 1/31/2015 2:10:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A bullshit cartridge, with a purely political origin. Before there ever was a 40 S&W, we had the 41 Action Express. It does the same job, with a much smarter approach. There were very nice CZ 75 style pistols, that came with an extra barrel & magazines - you simply swapped the barrel & shot cheap 9mm to practice, then went back to 41 AE for carry. The FBI started down the 10mm road, and found out the agents they had to let in because of PC could not handle it. They had 10mm ammo downloaded, and finally went in search of a less powerful (and smaller) platform. There was no way in hell that S&W wanted to compete with a CZ75. The shitty S&W autos had already had their asses kicked by Beretta over the M9, just 5 years earlier. So they greased the right palms / paid lobbyists / etc. to convince the FBI to buy a new cartridge that was .010 smaller in diameter The original IMI loading for the 41AE was a 170 grain bullet @ 1215 fps The only good thing to come from the 40S&W was the 357 Sig. . I'm 5'4" and a 155lbs and I can handle the 10mm Auto without a problem. The thing is I know that the 10mm Auto is overkill for the intended role. The .40 S&W was a great development. The entire issue with the FBI wasn't the fact that they were PC. It was that they always admit that what ever issue they have is an equipment issue. The FBI did not not to admit that the Miami Shootout was a failure in training. The FBI is just like the US Army with the issue involving the Beretta. They don't do proper training. The .41 Action Express was a great idea that wasn't marketed well. Okay, so Israel had Italian made CZ clones chambered in it. Who else chambered guns for it? No ammo companies loaded it. No one backed it. Everyone backed the .40 S&W. Hell, they're so similar that most reloading manuals recommend using .40 S&W load data for the .41 AE IMI tried the same thing in 1994 with the 9mm AE trying to replicate the .357 Magnum and guess what... it was the same as the .357 Sig. S&W also released another cartridge called the .356 TSW. It failed too. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 2:19:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How exactly? How does pure mass lend itself to incapacitation potential. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
230 grains going in 13 inches beats 180 grains going in 13 1/2 inches. How exactly? How does pure mass lend itself to incapacitation potential. Larger sectional density. More expansion. I'm only nine inches thick front to back, and just 15 inches side to side. If both rounds are going to penetrate clear through, I'd rather make the bigger hole. Now if I had to shoot some fatass basement dwelling tier one video game ballistics expert that may be over two feet thick I'll use a 30.06. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 2:21:12 PM EDT
[#48]
The only good thing to come from the 40S&W was the 357 Sig. To my mind, the only good thing about the 357SIG is that you can load it with typical 9mm bullets, and feed it through a 10mm gun re-barreled to the 357 SIG. Now, at this point, it is not the same cartridge. I call the new cartridge the "357 Grendelbane", not because I was the first person to do it, but because I was the first person to claim naming rights on the internet. 147 grain JHPs at 1400 FPS!, (No, I never had that load officially pressure tested, I thought it was too hot. Didn't seem to hurt the gun, shooter, or case, however). Of course, my 9x23mm Winchester will shoot the same bullet at 1340 FPS, and I don't think that load is excessive. But, to get back on track, I kind of like the .40 S&W, though I only own one at the present time, (Two, if you count my 610, and yes, it does get shot with .40 in moonclips). There really is no ultimate cartridge. Everything is a matter of compromises. The .40 S&W owner is well armed, even if he/she is not the most economically armed, or tactically armed. Don't let the best be the enemy of the good. |
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Posted: 1/31/2015 2:22:44 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn......10mm IS the fist of death.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Now imagine how better the world would be if the FBI were not a bunch of limp wristed girly-men and adopted the 10mm instead. Why? It's still only a pistol round with pistol terminal ballistics and permanent cavity wounding mechanisms. Albeit with more recoil and slower follow up shots. .40 and .45 are both worse than 9mm due to the above, but 10mm is somehow preferable because it is the fist of death? http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww344/Jhatmaker24/10mm-1.jpg
Damn......10mm IS the fist of death. I see that...looks like a secondary going off in there. I carry a .40 S&W and don't give a tinker's damn what anyone thinks. I've carried everything from .38/.357, 9mm, .40, and .45. I shoo them all equally as well. Kabooms be damned, never seen one, never had anyone in my department have one. I ain't gonna go so far as to say it's an urban myth but there ya go 
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Posted: 1/31/2015 2:25:22 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And... I'm transitioning to 9mm. Been a .40 fan for years and years, but really don't see the point with modern bullet technology. Right because everyone knows that only the 9mm evolved with modern bullet technology. The .40 is using the exact same technology from 1990.
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