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Posted: 1/25/2015 9:39:38 PM EDT
[#1]
If it keeps law abiding from getting guns then gun control in Europe is a success. Because any law can be broken that doesn't mean the law is a failure it means people break laws.
Is the law against murder a success or not? Yes, people get busted for it all the time. The flip side is no because people still commit murder. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 9:46:42 PM EDT
[#2]
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Googles search algo looks for things in the address, like "?" and "&" (look in your addy bar). Certain sites are set up specifically to avoid being seen by search engines. A lot of them , you need to know the actual IP address in order to connect. Services like Tor are also used to increase anonymity to prevent tracking, and cryptocurrencies like LiteCoin and BitCoin are used to purchase goods and services online without having to go through a processor, like you would if you used a credit or debit card. It's basically a giant fuck you to government involvement and can be considered borderline anarchistic due to the type of shit you can find on deepweb sites. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Tellz me more about the Deep Webz? Googles search algo looks for things in the address, like "?" and "&" (look in your addy bar). Certain sites are set up specifically to avoid being seen by search engines. A lot of them , you need to know the actual IP address in order to connect. Services like Tor are also used to increase anonymity to prevent tracking, and cryptocurrencies like LiteCoin and BitCoin are used to purchase goods and services online without having to go through a processor, like you would if you used a credit or debit card. It's basically a giant fuck you to government involvement and can be considered borderline anarchistic due to the type of shit you can find on deepweb sites. Totally off topic, but this is the second time this month I heard about the deep web. First was from a corpsman... And he also was mentioning you cant "unsee it." WTF does that even mean? Am I going to run across midgets screwing shetland ponies or something wierd like that? |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 10:00:38 PM EDT
[#3]
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Totally off topic, but this is the second time this month I heard about the deep web. First was from a corpsman... And he also was mentioning you cant "unsee it." WTF does that even mean? Am I going to run across midgets screwing shetland ponies or something wierd like that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Tellz me more about the Deep Webz? Googles search algo looks for things in the address, like "?" and "&" (look in your addy bar). Certain sites are set up specifically to avoid being seen by search engines. A lot of them , you need to know the actual IP address in order to connect. Services like Tor are also used to increase anonymity to prevent tracking, and cryptocurrencies like LiteCoin and BitCoin are used to purchase goods and services online without having to go through a processor, like you would if you used a credit or debit card. It's basically a giant fuck you to government involvement and can be considered borderline anarchistic due to the type of shit you can find on deepweb sites. Totally off topic, but this is the second time this month I heard about the deep web. First was from a corpsman... And he also was mentioning you cant "unsee it." WTF does that even mean? Am I going to run across midgets screwing shetland ponies or something wierd like that? ...go on. 
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Posted: 1/25/2015 10:11:00 PM EDT
[#4]
The "deep web" isn't the Internet equivalent of the back room in porn shops like some seem to think it is.
You can spend all day looking around with Tor or some other similar tools and you won't find much of any interest. The real dark stuff is almost always by invitation only. You're not going to find a mail order machine gun store and a place to buy heroin by the pound by downloading Tor and doing some searches. 
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Posted: 1/25/2015 10:12:22 PM EDT
[#5]
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It is very easy it get illegal guns in Europe. Before the Wall fell, it wasn't super-difficult, due to the huge number of WW2 era weapons squirreled away. But after Eastern Europe opened up and especially the wars in the Balkans, it became ridiculously easy. How ridiculously easy is it? Are there illegal arms dealers that everyone knows how to find, and everybody looks the other way? Do you mail-order them from somewhere where it isn't heavily controlled? Is it more similar to getting Cuban cigars here, where nobody really cares that much, or is it more similar to buying heroin, where it's available if you know where to look, but there's still significant risk involved? |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 10:18:40 PM EDT
[#6]
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Yup.... Gun Control Works.... another stash found. This time in the UK. [div style='text-indent: 0px;']A secret arsenal of guns and ammunition hidden have been found stashed behind a false wall by a builder renovating a house. [div style='text-indent: 0px;']Builder Simon Berni, 41, was shocked to discover a secret haul of more than 30 shotguns and pistols as well as hundreds of rounds of ammunition when he began working on a south Wales property. [div style='text-indent: 0px;']He said: 'It was an incredible arsenal - full, absolutely choc-a-bloc with eight shelves of fire arms and ammunition.' [div style='text-indent: 0px; margin: 0px; clear: both; width: auto; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; padding: 0px !important; min-height: 0px !important; height: 0px !important; line-height: 0 !important; font-size: 0px !important; border: 0px !important; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'] [div style='text-indent: 0px; margin: 0px auto 4px; padding: 0px; min-height: 1px; clear: both; width: 636px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'][div style='margin: 0px; padding: 0px; min-height: 1px;']http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-2266958-171BAF0E000005DC-691_634x495.jpg Builder Simon Berni, 41, stands next to a fake wall used to hide a huge arsenal of guns and ammunition [div style='text-indent: 0px;'] [div style='text-indent: 0px; margin: 0px; clear: both; width: auto; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; padding: 0px !important; min-height: 0px !important; height: 0px !important; line-height: 0 !important; font-size: 0px !important; border: 0px !important; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'] [div style='text-indent: 0px; margin: 0px auto 4px; padding: 0px; min-height: 1px; clear: both; width: 636px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'][div style='margin: 0px; padding: 0px; min-height: 1px;']http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-2266958-171BBD17000005DC-668_634x487.jpg The haul: It is believed a previous owner of the property in Dinas Powys, South Wales, stashed these guns behind the wall after the Dunblane massacre in 1996 [div style='text-indent: 0px;'] [div style='text-indent: 0px; margin: 0px; clear: both; width: auto; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; padding: 0px !important; min-height: 0px !important; height: 0px !important; line-height: 0 !important; font-size: 0px !important; border: 0px !important; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'] [div style='text-indent: 0px; margin: 0px auto 4px; padding: 0px; min-height: 1px; clear: both; width: 636px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'][div style='margin: 0px; padding: 0px; min-height: 1px;']http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-2266958-171BC317000005DC-575_634x477.jpg Well hidden: The secret compartment was only discovered when Mr Berni started renovating the property [div style='text-indent: 0px; margin: 0px auto 4px; padding: 0px; min-height: 1px; clear: both; width: 636px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'][div style='margin: 0px; padding: 0px; min-height: 1px;']http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-2266958-171BC203000005DC-283_634x484.jpg Investigation: Police safety removed the collection of firearms from the property [div style='text-indent: 0px;'] [div style='text-indent: 0px; margin: 0px auto 4px; padding: 0px; min-height: 1px; clear: both; width: 636px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'][div style='margin: 0px; padding: 0px; min-height: 1px;']http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-2266958-171BC31E000005DC-901_634x496.jpg Law change: Private ownership of handguns was banned in 1997 - a year after the Dunblane massacre [div style='text-indent: 0px; margin: 0px; clear: both; width: auto; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; padding: 0px !important; min-height: 0px !important; height: 0px !important; line-height: 0 !important; font-size: 0px !important; border: 0px !important; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'] [div style='text-indent: 0px;'] [div style='text-indent: 0px; margin: 0px; clear: both; width: auto; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; padding: 0px !important; min-height: 0px !important; height: 0px !important; line-height: 0 !important; font-size: 0px !important; border: 0px !important; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'] [div style='text-indent: 0px; margin: 0px auto 4px; padding: 0px; min-height: 1px; clear: both; width: 636px; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);'][div style='margin: 0px; padding: 0px; min-height: 1px;']http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/23/article-2266958-171BBB66000005DC-928_634x491.jpg Collection: The weapons were all found to be in pristine condition and had all been carefully wrapped up That's the first I've heard of Dunblane. While I was reading the wiki page I kept thinking "Newton" and "Port Arthur (Australia)". Thank God for the 2A. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 10:29:04 PM EDT
[#7]
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Contrary to popular belief, guns are pretty popular in Europe. A LOT of people own handguns and just keep them stashed away. They just don't have the same shooting culture you find here in the US. If you have to keep them stashed away, and can't use them to defend yourself with, it's pretty much an irrelevant topic that proves or implies nothing. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 10:39:45 PM EDT
[#8]
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Seems about right, but if there's a 'shooting culture' in Western Europe, France is in that camp. I visited a gun store in Paris -- Armurerie de la Bourse -- on a trip to France. The inventory they had was probably like what a gun store in Massachusetts might have, I guess. I managed to stumble in there on a lark after touring The Louvre and decided to walk north a bit to see what that part of the city was like. I was about to turn around right when I found their store. I don't speak the language aside from 'Thank you' and 'Goodbye' like a typical American tourist, but they realized I was an American (and not British) immediately and treated me like an honored guest and spoke in pretty decent English which was nice of them. They had Manhurin pistols (good quality S&W-like clones), MagPul gear for ARs, Hk/Glock/Sig/CZ pistols, and basically a lot of what you'd expect to find in the USA. The ARs were made in Spain and Germany and all seemed to be SBRs (they don't care about length once you have the permit to get a military semi-auto) and the premium price was curiously on the full-length rifles. They have manual single shot versions of the same. They did have a lot of 1911 IPSC match crap, like compensated 1911s with frame-mounted rails with red dot sights, etc. They didn't offer to let me handle anything, but I think I would have declined anyway. They wanted to know what my gun laws were like and if I owned anything interesting. They were all 'gun guys' just like us. I sort of understand how French gun laws work with their categorized 'point' system and it seemed that if there's any firearms that they didn't seem to fret about much it was shotguns. They had racks of pretty mundane Fudd-type long arms, but down the row there were tactical counter-terror police shotguns with pistol grips and extended tube mags -- Benelli, Franchi, Beretta, Remington. They were heavy on 'tactical'-type accessories and had the latest stuff priced at about the same prices we pay in dollars. This gun store was sort of an exception to the typical French gun store in that they carried paramilitary arms where most French gun shops cater to the wealthy tweedy rural elitist goose hunters in knee-high riding boots and shooting caps. Only thing that really jumped out at me were the prices on firearms and ammo. Firearms and ammo prices were about 150% of their price in the USA, across the board. What I thought was nice was that American-made firearms were priced and displayed like coveted merchandise; Americans seem to put a premium on Euro-made firearms, and the French do the same with American-made arms. People will pay big money for an M1 Garand in France, they said, and they mentioned our CMP program gives M1s away for an outright steal. Other than that, they also had a curious amount of archery equipment, presumably because that's uncontrolled. They had goofy pistol crossbows just like in the pics that Islamist terrorist couple took of themselves from the Paris Kosher market attack some weeks back. Bottom line is that if you lived in France you could own ARs and suppressed Hk pistols and so on if you were diligent about jumping through all the flaming hoops. You could probably even live in metropolitan Paris owning them. That alone is better than how much liberty the gun laws now allow in a few coastal US states I could name. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Contrary to popular belief, guns are pretty popular in Europe. A LOT of people own handguns and just keep them stashed away. They just don't have the same shooting culture you find here in the US. Seems about right, but if there's a 'shooting culture' in Western Europe, France is in that camp. I visited a gun store in Paris -- Armurerie de la Bourse -- on a trip to France. The inventory they had was probably like what a gun store in Massachusetts might have, I guess. I managed to stumble in there on a lark after touring The Louvre and decided to walk north a bit to see what that part of the city was like. I was about to turn around right when I found their store. I don't speak the language aside from 'Thank you' and 'Goodbye' like a typical American tourist, but they realized I was an American (and not British) immediately and treated me like an honored guest and spoke in pretty decent English which was nice of them. They had Manhurin pistols (good quality S&W-like clones), MagPul gear for ARs, Hk/Glock/Sig/CZ pistols, and basically a lot of what you'd expect to find in the USA. The ARs were made in Spain and Germany and all seemed to be SBRs (they don't care about length once you have the permit to get a military semi-auto) and the premium price was curiously on the full-length rifles. They have manual single shot versions of the same. They did have a lot of 1911 IPSC match crap, like compensated 1911s with frame-mounted rails with red dot sights, etc. They didn't offer to let me handle anything, but I think I would have declined anyway. They wanted to know what my gun laws were like and if I owned anything interesting. They were all 'gun guys' just like us. I sort of understand how French gun laws work with their categorized 'point' system and it seemed that if there's any firearms that they didn't seem to fret about much it was shotguns. They had racks of pretty mundane Fudd-type long arms, but down the row there were tactical counter-terror police shotguns with pistol grips and extended tube mags -- Benelli, Franchi, Beretta, Remington. They were heavy on 'tactical'-type accessories and had the latest stuff priced at about the same prices we pay in dollars. This gun store was sort of an exception to the typical French gun store in that they carried paramilitary arms where most French gun shops cater to the wealthy tweedy rural elitist goose hunters in knee-high riding boots and shooting caps. Only thing that really jumped out at me were the prices on firearms and ammo. Firearms and ammo prices were about 150% of their price in the USA, across the board. What I thought was nice was that American-made firearms were priced and displayed like coveted merchandise; Americans seem to put a premium on Euro-made firearms, and the French do the same with American-made arms. People will pay big money for an M1 Garand in France, they said, and they mentioned our CMP program gives M1s away for an outright steal. Other than that, they also had a curious amount of archery equipment, presumably because that's uncontrolled. They had goofy pistol crossbows just like in the pics that Islamist terrorist couple took of themselves from the Paris Kosher market attack some weeks back. Bottom line is that if you lived in France you could own ARs and suppressed Hk pistols and so on if you were diligent about jumping through all the flaming hoops. You could probably even live in metropolitan Paris owning them. That alone is better than how much liberty the gun laws now allow in a few coastal US states I could name. Why doesn't anyone use them to shoot the terrorists that are giving them such a problem? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 10:53:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you have to keep them stashed away, and can't use them to defend yourself with, it's pretty much an irrelevant topic that proves or implies nothing. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Contrary to popular belief, guns are pretty popular in Europe. A LOT of people own handguns and just keep them stashed away. They just don't have the same shooting culture you find here in the US. If you have to keep them stashed away, and can't use them to defend yourself with, it's pretty much an irrelevant topic that proves or implies nothing. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Many believe in the thought of "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."
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Posted: 1/25/2015 11:14:35 PM EDT
[#10]
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Uh, what's the "Deep Web"?  Scary, scary place. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 11:33:04 PM EDT
[#11]
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If I recall, in a number of European States. If an illegal firearm is used in Self Defense it is okay. Many believe in the thought of "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six." Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Contrary to popular belief, guns are pretty popular in Europe. A LOT of people own handguns and just keep them stashed away. They just don't have the same shooting culture you find here in the US. If you have to keep them stashed away, and can't use them to defend yourself with, it's pretty much an irrelevant topic that proves or implies nothing. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Many believe in the thought of "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six." Isn't there an English farmer in prison for defending himself with a legal firearm? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 11:46:25 PM EDT
[#12]
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Isn't there an English farmer in prison for defending himself with a legal firearm? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Contrary to popular belief, guns are pretty popular in Europe. A LOT of people own handguns and just keep them stashed away. They just don't have the same shooting culture you find here in the US. If you have to keep them stashed away, and can't use them to defend yourself with, it's pretty much an irrelevant topic that proves or implies nothing. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Many believe in the thought of "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six." Isn't there an English farmer in prison for defending himself with a legal firearm? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile This guy? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2322457/Farmer-Tony-Martin-jailed-shooting-teenage-burglar-confronts-thieves-second-time.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11044022/Tony-Martin-15-years-on-I-dont-want-to-go-back-there-because-it-could-happen-again.html |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 11:58:44 PM EDT
[#13]
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How ridiculously easy is it? Are there illegal arms dealers that everyone knows how to find, and everybody looks the other way? Do you mail-order them from somewhere where it isn't heavily controlled? Is it more similar to getting Cuban cigars here, where nobody really cares that much, or is it more similar to buying heroin, where it's available if you know where to look, but there's still significant risk involved? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It is very easy it get illegal guns in Europe. Before the Wall fell, it wasn't super-difficult, due to the huge number of WW2 era weapons squirreled away. But after Eastern Europe opened up and especially the wars in the Balkans, it became ridiculously easy. How ridiculously easy is it? Are there illegal arms dealers that everyone knows how to find, and everybody looks the other way? Do you mail-order them from somewhere where it isn't heavily controlled? Is it more similar to getting Cuban cigars here, where nobody really cares that much, or is it more similar to buying heroin, where it's available if you know where to look, but there's still significant risk involved? The latter (in blue). In a lot of European countries, the penalties for a firearms violation (even for someone with a clean record) can be quite severe. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 1:41:11 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The latter (in blue). In a lot of European countries, the penalties for a firearms violation (even for someone with a clean record) can be quite severe. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It is very easy it get illegal guns in Europe. Before the Wall fell, it wasn't super-difficult, due to the huge number of WW2 era weapons squirreled away. But after Eastern Europe opened up and especially the wars in the Balkans, it became ridiculously easy. How ridiculously easy is it? Are there illegal arms dealers that everyone knows how to find, and everybody looks the other way? Do you mail-order them from somewhere where it isn't heavily controlled? Is it more similar to getting Cuban cigars here, where nobody really cares that much, or is it more similar to buying heroin, where it's available if you know where to look, but there's still significant risk involved? The latter (in blue). In a lot of European countries, the penalties for a firearms violation (even for someone with a clean record) can be quite severe. Real prison or nice apartment prison? |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 1:43:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Gun control is a failure everywhere. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 1:57:25 AM EDT
[#16]
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This wasn't the total number, only the illegal ones. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I find this 10-20 million illegal guns in France number to be astonishing. The population of France is just over 66 million people. I wonder how many of these guns are in the hands of terrorists and organized criminals vs. everyday Frenchies. Either way, that is still represents a LOT of people with illegal guns. Far more than I would have ever guessed. That number seems extraordinarily high. In America, a 1 to 3 ratio of guns to people would be extraordinarily low. 
This wasn't the total number, only the illegal ones. Believable. For example Once pump action shotguns were sold over the counter to adults (before 94) They asked people to register them in 94.... Then they banned them... How many people registered the, according to you ? these guns still exists. Same for all the hunting weapons that aren't registered. They are 'illegal' |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:01:57 AM EDT
[#17]
Gun laws are getting loser and loser in Hungary but it can do better.
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:03:41 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How ridiculously easy is it? Are there illegal arms dealers that everyone knows how to find, and everybody looks the other way? Do you mail-order them from somewhere where it isn't heavily controlled? Is it more similar to getting Cuban cigars here, where nobody really cares that much, or is it more similar to buying heroin, where it's available if you know where to look, but there's still significant risk involved? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It is very easy it get illegal guns in Europe. Before the Wall fell, it wasn't super-difficult, due to the huge number of WW2 era weapons squirreled away. But after Eastern Europe opened up and especially the wars in the Balkans, it became ridiculously easy. How ridiculously easy is it? Are there illegal arms dealers that everyone knows how to find, and everybody looks the other way? Do you mail-order them from somewhere where it isn't heavily controlled? Is it more similar to getting Cuban cigars here, where nobody really cares that much, or is it more similar to buying heroin, where it's available if you know where to look, but there's still significant risk involved? Lurk long enough in gun communities (forums or shooting range) and you'll make connections. And I'm not talking about criminals.. Just people who collect guns.. I won't say more. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:12:06 AM EDT
[#19]
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Uh, what's the "Deep Web"? Web sites that aren't indexed or accessible by normal search engines/browsers. Big market for drugs, weapons, child porn, and other illegal services. Silk Road is probably the most well known. It was finally shut down and its founder is on trial right now I believe. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:17:08 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I find this 10-20 million illegal guns in France number to be astonishing. The population of France is just over 66 million people. I wonder how many of these guns are in the hands of terrorists and organized criminals vs. everyday Frenchies. Either way, that is still represents a LOT of people with illegal guns. Far more than I would have ever guessed. A friend of mine from France, who is also a big competition shooter, says that once you get out of the large cities, almost every house will have a WW2 weapon hidden away "just in case".... |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:22:58 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A friend of mine from France, who is also a big competition shooter, says that once you get out of the large cities, almost every house will have a WW2 weapon hidden away "just in case".... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I find this 10-20 million illegal guns in France number to be astonishing. The population of France is just over 66 million people. I wonder how many of these guns are in the hands of terrorists and organized criminals vs. everyday Frenchies. Either way, that is still represents a LOT of people with illegal guns. Far more than I would have ever guessed. A friend of mine from France, who is also a big competition shooter, says that once you get out of the large cities, almost every house will have a WW2 weapon hidden away "just in case".... I can't cite any scientific studies or anything, but I've read that the compliance rate for the various German registration schemes was estimated at 10-15%. Which would actually put them ahead of a few US states. Damn. There was a thread/link somewhere last week about someone finding a pile of FALs and ammo in Britain somewhere. Can't find it now. Looked to be fairly well preserved from the images they showed. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:47:18 AM EDT
[#22]
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Googles search algo looks for things in the address, like "?" and "&" (look in your addy bar). Certain sites are set up specifically to avoid being seen by search engines. A lot of them , you need to know the actual IP address in order to connect. Services like Tor are also used to increase anonymity to prevent tracking, and cryptocurrencies like LiteCoin and BitCoin are used to purchase goods and services online without having to go through a processor, like you would if you used a credit or debit card. It's basically a giant fuck you to government involvement and can be considered borderline anarchistic due to the type of shit you can find on deepweb sites. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Tellz me more about the Deep Webz? Googles search algo looks for things in the address, like "?" and "&" (look in your addy bar). Certain sites are set up specifically to avoid being seen by search engines. A lot of them , you need to know the actual IP address in order to connect. Services like Tor are also used to increase anonymity to prevent tracking, and cryptocurrencies like LiteCoin and BitCoin are used to purchase goods and services online without having to go through a processor, like you would if you used a credit or debit card. It's basically a giant fuck you to government involvement and can be considered borderline anarchistic due to the type of shit you can find on deepweb sites. The FBI released a document describing how they cracked Tor. They worked out an algorithm to determine how many servers they'd need to dedicate as Entry and Exit nodes to guaranty a user's traffic would pass through one of their nodes. I don't know if it was meant to be released, it was more of a White Paper on how they did it. They can target individual users, plucking out their individual data streams. The only variable was getting a copy of the users encryption key to decrypt their traffic but from what I understand that's fairly easy for them to do. The document even talked about leasing server space from Amazon as needed to make it more cost effective. The FBI was using this technique to crack down on child porn. From what I read it couldn't be done on a large scale as they need to be able to identify individual user traffic and get their key which would probably involve successfully hacking their PC. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 2:57:06 AM EDT
[#23]
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The "deep web" isn't the Internet equivalent of the back room in porn shops like some seem to think it is. You can spend all day looking around with Tor or some other similar tools and you won't find much of any interest. The real dark stuff is almost always by invitation only. You're not going to find a mail order machine gun store and a place to buy heroin by the pound by downloading Tor and doing some searches. Sellers would advertise on Silk Road in addition to users sharing links. You could then contact the seller, exchange keys, and conduct business fairly securely. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 3:47:13 AM EDT
[#24]
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Damn; that sounds like it could have been written yesterday. Controlling human behavior is apparently an age old science. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gun control in Europe was successful in achieving it's goal of establishing government domination over the populace. Gun laws don't eliminate guns, they only criminalize their possession. QFT. And a bit unlike the USA you can literally read it in the historical political discussions. Oldy but goodie from about 1570: 7. The King should seize and remove the arms and ordnance from all towns and cities in the heart of this realm (an exception being made for towns and forts on the frontier). All these said weapons and military stores should be put under close guard in the said citadels and fortresses, which His Majesty shall build in the centre of the realm so that, in time of need, the said weapons and munitions can easily be distributed and employed, as required and as the King wishes. For there is nothing more likely to bring an unbridled people to obedience and tranquillity than the sight of their King, fully armed and equipped, and the people well-clothed yet unarmed. For it is a common maxim that when a people considers itself poor, and is at the same time amply provided with arms, it always seeks to change its condition; where, however, the people is prosperous and well-endowed with prosperity, yet lacking any arms, it wishes to continue and to remain in that state. http://www.dutchrevolt.leiden.edu/english/sources/Pages/1568advice.aspx Damn; that sounds like it could have been written yesterday. Controlling human behavior is apparently an age old science. its all about the alpha getting dibs for them & their offspring. The drive is older than the species. Humans just added hte novel twist of using myths & morals to legitimize the alpha w/ ideas such as "if you smite the king or his son the gods will smite you forever in hell." or "divine right" or "social contract," all aimed at making obedience appearing virtuous or holy. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 3:47:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it keeps law abiding from getting guns then gun control in Europe is a success. Because any law can be broken that doesn't mean the law is a failure it means people break laws. Is the law against murder a success or not? Yes, people get busted for it all the time. The flip side is no because people still commit murder. yes, but murder is wrong, merely owning or carrying a hunk of steel & wood/plastic is not. The old malum in se vs malum prohibito distinction |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 7:09:08 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn't there an English farmer in prison for defending himself with a legal firearm? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Contrary to popular belief, guns are pretty popular in Europe. A LOT of people own handguns and just keep them stashed away. They just don't have the same shooting culture you find here in the US. If you have to keep them stashed away, and can't use them to defend yourself with, it's pretty much an irrelevant topic that proves or implies nothing. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Many believe in the thought of "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six." Isn't there an English farmer in prison for defending himself with a legal firearm? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Also I believe he shot a burglar, he wasn't attacked.
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Posted: 1/26/2015 7:56:58 AM EDT
[#27]
European gun laws work perfectly.
The state and municipalities are well enough armed to protect against low-level criminality and against threats to the elected and financial/wealthy overlords to whom the laws rarely apply. The criminal class is well enough armed to pose a security risk to justify arming the constabulary from the borders inland to the country's center. Mass killing Events, jewelry store and armoured car jobs by nut cases provide opportunities to scream for more gun control while simultaneously arming the police, border guards, and military with heavier arms, and the deploying the military to patrol the streets, as scene iFrance recently. The prols see barely enough private ownership of hunting (i.e., shotguns mostly, but some rifles in non-military calibers too) and recreational firearms (i.e., .22 bolt rifles)to keep game populations in check and so the elected/rich elites can say "But guns are not banned, just tightly controlled, and it is all America's fault any way." And so everyone is happy, joyous, and protected by the state. So gun control works fine in Europe. Now. One day, which I hope is soon but which will take at least 10 years of Charlie Hebo events happeniing every week, the citizens are going to see the benefits of our armed populus and begin to clamour "das ein de merde" why not us? The eu.gov is failing to protect us from anything and prevents citizens from defending themselves. But my fear is by then it will be too late to stopthe wave of violence. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 8:03:28 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
European gun laws work perfectly. The state and municipalities are well enough armed to protect against low-level criminality and against threats to the elected and financial/wealthy overlords to whom the laws rarely apply. The criminal class is well enough armed to pose a security risk to justify arming the constabulary from the borders inland to the country's center. Mass killing Events, jewelry store and armoured car jobs by nut cases provide opportunities to scream for more gun control while simultaneously arming the police, border guards, and military with heavier arms, and the deploying the military to patrol the streets, as scene iFrance recently. The prols see barely enough private ownership of hunting (i.e., shotguns mostly, but some rifles in non-military calibers too) and recreational firearms (i.e., .22 bolt rifles)to keep game populations in check and so the elected/rich elites can say "But guns are not banned, just tightly controlled, and it is all America's fault any way." And so everyone is happy, joyous, and protected by the state. So gun control works fine in Europe. Now. One day, which I hope is soon but which will take at least 10 years of Charlie Hebo events happeniing every week, the citizens are going to see the benefits of our armed populus and begin to clamour "das ein de merde" why not us? The eu.gov is failing to protect us from anything and prevents citizens from defending themselves. But my fear is by then it will be too late to stopthe wave of violence. 
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Posted: 1/26/2015 8:27:08 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends on what your objective is. This. Much like husseinacare, which is a fantastic success in terms of accomplishing it's intended task. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 8:32:55 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the majority of those firearms were in the hands of people engaged in traditional criminal activities and/or terrorists the nation's streets would run red with blood. I've heard that not only are eastern bloc weapons in western Europe now, but that a large number of firearms from Libya have been finding their way there as well. Criminal organization specialize in bringing to market illegal contraband. They've been doing it since there were laws. "Black Markets" always spring up to supply people what they want. I don't know why liberals fail to see that if metric tons of narcotics can be smuggled by the boat load into a nation so to can firearms. Like it really matters though. People were killing each other for thousands of years long before firearms came about. If you could magically make all firearms disappear tomorrow people would continue to kill each other for thousands of more years. It is what it is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I find this 10-20 million illegal guns in France number to be astonishing. The population of France is just over 66 million people. I wonder how many of these guns are in the hands of terrorists and organized criminals vs. everyday Frenchies. Either way, that is still represents a LOT of people with illegal guns. Far more than I would have ever guessed. If the majority of those firearms were in the hands of people engaged in traditional criminal activities and/or terrorists the nation's streets would run red with blood. I've heard that not only are eastern bloc weapons in western Europe now, but that a large number of firearms from Libya have been finding their way there as well. Criminal organization specialize in bringing to market illegal contraband. They've been doing it since there were laws. "Black Markets" always spring up to supply people what they want. I don't know why liberals fail to see that if metric tons of narcotics can be smuggled by the boat load into a nation so to can firearms. Like it really matters though. People were killing each other for thousands of years long before firearms came about. If you could magically make all firearms disappear tomorrow people would continue to kill each other for thousands of more years. It is what it is. Actually the guns can be smuggled in easier. I've never heard of a gun sniffing dog. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 8:50:20 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A collection of hidden guns found in a German Doctor's residence. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/02/article-0-15CB7010000005DC-481_634x476.jpg Not sure I would call putting them in a closet, "hiding," but nice stash. Kind of sad, though. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 8:52:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure I would call putting them in a closet, "hiding," but nice stash. Kind of sad, though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A collection of hidden guns found in a German Doctor's residence. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/02/article-0-15CB7010000005DC-481_634x476.jpg Not sure I would call putting them in a closet, "hiding," but nice stash. Kind of sad, though. No one knew he had them and they weren't registered with the German Authorities. Hidden doesn't have to mean buried in a secret bunker or a cache in a wall. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 8:59:18 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No one knew he had them and they were registered with the German Authorities. Hidden doesn't have to mean buried in a secret bunker or a cache in a wall. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
A collection of hidden guns found in a German Doctor's residence. http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/11/02/article-0-15CB7010000005DC-481_634x476.jpg Not sure I would call putting them in a closet, "hiding," but nice stash. Kind of sad, though. No one knew he had them and they were registered with the German Authorities. Hidden doesn't have to mean buried in a secret bunker or a cache in a wall. But that would make for cooler photos! Regardless, this thread underscores the old adage that gun control is not about guns, it's about control. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 9:01:58 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find this 10-20 million illegal guns in France number to be astonishing. The population of France is just over 66 million people. I wonder how many of these guns are in the hands of terrorists and organized criminals vs. everyday Frenchies. Either way, that is still represents a LOT of people with illegal guns. Far more than I would have ever guessed. Yet every time we say "If you outlaw guns only outlaws will have them" the left acts like we're being unreasonable. Facts don't matter when they interfere with their opinions on firearms. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 9:08:12 AM EDT
[#35]
Apples and oranges. Can't buy a MG over the counter here either. Also, only a handful of Euro countries allow self defense with a firearm.
The UK being the notable exception, but just about every European country allows (that being the key word) citizens to have just about everything with the proper licences. They also generally don't have SBR laws, 922R, etc.Many even allow live MGs. Getting a licence is not hard if you really want one. They do not have a "gun culture" like we do in the States. There is no magical Utopia in the west where you can legally buy an FN MAG over the counter with no paperwork. Finally, what pro and anti gun control advocates always ignore is the culture. The culture has more to do with crime then guns. If more guns = less crime, Afghanistan would be a crime free Utopia. If less guns = less crime, Scotland would not have the highest violent crime rate in Europe. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 9:36:09 AM EDT
[#36]
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Also, only a handful of Euro countries allow self defense with a firearm. Cite? |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:24:27 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cite? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Also, only a handful of Euro countries allow self defense with a firearm. Cite? What he means is that it is almost impossible to legally have a firearm for self defence in almost all of Europe. The fact that you can use your illegally held firearm for self defence and just be busted for a illegal gun possession does not really constitute the right of armed self defence. In short my 80+ yo mother can not in any realistic way defend herself with a firearm. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:25:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What he means is that it is almost impossible to legally have a firearm for self defence in almost all of Europe. The fact that you can use your illegally held firearm for self defence and just be busted for a illegal gun possession does not really constitute the right of armed self defence. In short my 80+ yo mother can not in any realistic way defend herself with a firearm. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Also, only a handful of Euro countries allow self defense with a firearm. Cite? What he means is that it is almost impossible to legally have a firearm for self defence in almost all of Europe. The fact that you can use your illegally held firearm for self defence and just be busted for a illegal gun possession does not really constitute the right of armed self defence. In short my 80+ yo mother can not in any realistic way defend herself with a firearm. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:32:08 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
. The UK being the notable exception, but just about every European country allows (that being the key word) citizens to have just about everything with the proper licences. That is not correct. While firearm ownership is possible in most European countries, there are typically onerous requirements beyond just licensing, and there are often serious restrictions on WHAT you can own. In numerous countries, semi-auto rifles are simply not allowed, or if they are allowed are limits to 3 shots. In other countries, you are not allowed to own anything in a "military" caliber. Sure, there are a few decent countries, like Switzerland, Finland, Czecholoslvaki and to a certain extend France - but for most of Europe, I would disagree with your suggestion that you can get "just about everything" |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:32:14 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those really are mind blowing numbers of illegal firearms in countries that have strict gun control.  Open borders. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:32:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn; that sounds like it could have been written yesterday. Controlling human behavior is apparently an age old science. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gun control in Europe was successful in achieving it's goal of establishing government domination over the populace. Gun laws don't eliminate guns, they only criminalize their possession. QFT. And a bit unlike the USA you can literally read it in the historical political discussions. Oldie but goodie from about 1570: 7. The King should seize and remove the arms and ordnance from all towns and cities in the heart of this realm (an exception being made for towns and forts on the frontier). All these said weapons and military stores should be put under close guard in the said citadels and fortresses, which His Majesty shall build in the centre of the realm so that, in time of need, the said weapons and munitions can easily be distributed and employed, as required and as the King wishes. For there is nothing more likely to bring an unbridled people to obedience and tranquillity than the sight of their King, fully armed and equipped, and the people well-clothed yet unarmed. For it is a common maxim that when a people considers itself poor, and is at the same time amply provided with arms, it always seeks to change its condition; where, however, the people is prosperous and well-endowed with prosperity, yet lacking any arms, it wishes to continue and to remain in that state. http://www.dutchrevolt.leiden.edu/english/sources/Pages/1568advice.aspx Damn; that sounds like it could have been written yesterday. Controlling human behavior is apparently an age old science. Oh yes there are many more examples in historical records (but not many in English). The text I cited was the advise given to the Spanish King who happily murdered complete Dutch towns. Your founding fathers would have been well aware of the events of the Spanish Fury |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:32:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fucking A, those prices are close to ours. For Full auto. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:35:28 AM EDT
[#43]
Was stationed in Germany, and had a German civilian gun license. There are hunter, collector, and sport shooter licenses.
Hollowpoints are illegal. As are man shaped targets. Ammo and gun must be kept in seperate locked containers. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:38:42 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Liberals here don't understand that banning guns won't keep bad people from getting them. Annnnnnd you just take away a law abiding citizen's ability to defend themselves, and family. Because the ones driving policy are well above the social and economic class of the average Americans. Think Rosie O'Donnell, except not quite as feral and a bit smarter in the approach to gun-control. Live in the really nice places with special police attention. Can hire their own security. And on and on and on. Bubble life. Not the same as the riff-raff. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:41:13 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Web sites that aren't indexed or accessible by normal search engines/browsers. Big market for drugs, weapons, child porn, and other illegal services. Silk Road is probably the most well known. It was finally shut down and its founder is on trial right now I believe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Uh, what's the "Deep Web"? Web sites that aren't indexed or accessible by normal search engines/browsers. Big market for drugs, weapons, child porn, and other illegal services. Silk Road is probably the most well known. It was finally shut down and its founder is on trial right now I believe. Honestly, the first time I heard of the "Deep Web" was in a Splinter Cell game. 
Edgy, I'm not. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:41:22 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is not correct. While firearm ownership is possible in most European countries, there are typically onerous requirements beyond just licensing, and there are often serious restrictions on WHAT you can own. In numerous countries, semi-auto rifles are simply not allowed, or if they are allowed are limits to 3 shots. In other countries, you are not allowed to own anything in a "military" caliber. Sure, there are a few decent countries, like Switzerland, Finland, Czecholoslvaki and to a certain extend France - but for most of Europe, I would disagree with your suggestion that you can get "just about everything" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
. The UK being the notable exception, but just about every European country allows (that being the key word) citizens to have just about everything with the proper licences. That is not correct. While firearm ownership is possible in most European countries, there are typically onerous requirements beyond just licensing, and there are often serious restrictions on WHAT you can own. In numerous countries, semi-auto rifles are simply not allowed, or if they are allowed are limits to 3 shots. In other countries, you are not allowed to own anything in a "military" caliber. Sure, there are a few decent countries, like Switzerland, Finland, Czecholoslvaki and to a certain extend France - but for most of Europe, I would disagree with your suggestion that you can get "just about everything" Poland, Hungary, Czech, Slovakia, Austria, Switzerland, Germany, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, France, Belguim, Netherlands, and Luxembourg all allow Military style semi autos. Some even full aut. And becoming a regular member of a shooting club, passing a test, some paperwork and money is not hard. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:44:21 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The point isn't even to take them away from bad people. It's too keep law abiding citizens from defending themselves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Liberals here don't understand that banning guns won't keep bad people from getting them. Annnnnnd you just take away a law abiding citizen's ability to defend themselves, and family. The point isn't even to take them away from bad people. It's too keep law abiding citizens from defending themselves. To keep the illusion that government protects and values it's citizenry. That it is the solution and not the problem. That move of government from gatekeeper to religious pontificator is our undoing. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:51:40 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why doesn't anyone use them to shoot the terrorists that are giving them such a problem? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Contrary to popular belief, guns are pretty popular in Europe. A LOT of people own handguns and just keep them stashed away. They just don't have the same shooting culture you find here in the US. Seems about right, but if there's a 'shooting culture' in Western Europe, France is in that camp. I visited a gun store in Paris -- Armurerie de la Bourse -- on a trip to France. The inventory they had was probably like what a gun store in Massachusetts might have, I guess. I managed to stumble in there on a lark after touring The Louvre and decided to walk north a bit to see what that part of the city was like. I was about to turn around right when I found their store. I don't speak the language aside from 'Thank you' and 'Goodbye' like a typical American tourist, but they realized I was an American (and not British) immediately and treated me like an honored guest and spoke in pretty decent English which was nice of them. They had Manhurin pistols (good quality S&W-like clones), MagPul gear for ARs, Hk/Glock/Sig/CZ pistols, and basically a lot of what you'd expect to find in the USA. The ARs were made in Spain and Germany and all seemed to be SBRs (they don't care about length once you have the permit to get a military semi-auto) and the premium price was curiously on the full-length rifles. They have manual single shot versions of the same. They did have a lot of 1911 IPSC match crap, like compensated 1911s with frame-mounted rails with red dot sights, etc. They didn't offer to let me handle anything, but I think I would have declined anyway. They wanted to know what my gun laws were like and if I owned anything interesting. They were all 'gun guys' just like us. I sort of understand how French gun laws work with their categorized 'point' system and it seemed that if there's any firearms that they didn't seem to fret about much it was shotguns. They had racks of pretty mundane Fudd-type long arms, but down the row there were tactical counter-terror police shotguns with pistol grips and extended tube mags -- Benelli, Franchi, Beretta, Remington. They were heavy on 'tactical'-type accessories and had the latest stuff priced at about the same prices we pay in dollars. This gun store was sort of an exception to the typical French gun store in that they carried paramilitary arms where most French gun shops cater to the wealthy tweedy rural elitist goose hunters in knee-high riding boots and shooting caps. Only thing that really jumped out at me were the prices on firearms and ammo. Firearms and ammo prices were about 150% of their price in the USA, across the board. What I thought was nice was that American-made firearms were priced and displayed like coveted merchandise; Americans seem to put a premium on Euro-made firearms, and the French do the same with American-made arms. People will pay big money for an M1 Garand in France, they said, and they mentioned our CMP program gives M1s away for an outright steal. Other than that, they also had a curious amount of archery equipment, presumably because that's uncontrolled. They had goofy pistol crossbows just like in the pics that Islamist terrorist couple took of themselves from the Paris Kosher market attack some weeks back. Bottom line is that if you lived in France you could own ARs and suppressed Hk pistols and so on if you were diligent about jumping through all the flaming hoops. You could probably even live in metropolitan Paris owning them. That alone is better than how much liberty the gun laws now allow in a few coastal US states I could name. Why doesn't anyone use them to shoot the terrorists that are giving them such a problem? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Because there's supposed to be rules in a civilized society. Keeping that illusion alive is important to prevent uprisings and revolts. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:52:09 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A friend of mine from France, who is also a big competition shooter, says that once you get out of the large cities, almost every house will have a WW2 weapon hidden away "just in case".... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I find this 10-20 million illegal guns in France number to be astonishing. The population of France is just over 66 million people. I wonder how many of these guns are in the hands of terrorists and organized criminals vs. everyday Frenchies. Either way, that is still represents a LOT of people with illegal guns. Far more than I would have ever guessed. A friend of mine from France, who is also a big competition shooter, says that once you get out of the large cities, almost every house will have a WW2 weapon hidden away "just in case".... I would beleive this. |
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Posted: 1/26/2015 10:52:46 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isn't there an English farmer in prison for defending himself with a legal firearm? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Contrary to popular belief, guns are pretty popular in Europe. A LOT of people own handguns and just keep them stashed away. They just don't have the same shooting culture you find here in the US. If you have to keep them stashed away, and can't use them to defend yourself with, it's pretty much an irrelevant topic that proves or implies nothing. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Many believe in the thought of "Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six." Isn't there an English farmer in prison for defending himself with a legal firearm? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile He violated the rights of someone who broke into his home to make a living. 
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