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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:31:21 PM EDT
[#1]
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The fact that "progressives" are pushing for it is clear evidence that it's a bad idea. As far as I can tell, it would be funded by pixie dust and magical troll droppings. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The fact that progressives are pushing hard for this. So I ask, how would it be funded? I don't support and I am curious to how such a universal program would be funded. The fact that "progressives" are pushing for it is clear evidence that it's a bad idea. As far as I can tell, it would be funded by pixie dust and magical troll droppings. It is bad but Bernie Sanders et al keep harping about it (single payer) You also have an entire party that wants government run healthcare (see: Obamacare) |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:33:59 PM EDT
[#2]
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Everyone and anyone a US citizen Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So I take it a 'universal healthcare tax' on everyone is out of the question? Everyone? Really, who do you mean exactly? You want the poor to cough up a extra $10,000 a year or something? Everyone and anyone a US citizen So many households will be putting forth 50-60% of their income towards a health tax. At least that will spur in the dissolution of our American socialist state--not a bad thing. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:35:31 PM EDT
[#3]
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So many households will be putting forth 50-60% of their income towards a health tax. At least that will spur in the dissolution of our American socialist state--not a bad thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So I take it a 'universal healthcare tax' on everyone is out of the question? Everyone? Really, who do you mean exactly? You want the poor to cough up a extra $10,000 a year or something? Everyone and anyone a US citizen So many households will be putting forth 50-60% of their income towards a health tax. At least that will spur in the dissolution of our American socialist state--not a bad thing. Welfare bums, and everyone else. NO exceptions. There can't be any. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:43:54 PM EDT
[#4]
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Welfare bums, and everyone else. NO exceptions. There can't be any. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So I take it a 'universal healthcare tax' on everyone is out of the question? Everyone? Really, who do you mean exactly? You want the poor to cough up a extra $10,000 a year or something? Everyone and anyone a US citizen So many households will be putting forth 50-60% of their income towards a health tax. At least that will spur in the dissolution of our American socialist state--not a bad thing. Welfare bums, and everyone else. NO exceptions. There can't be any. What happens when the tax exceeds a person's income? |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:47:46 PM EDT
[#5]
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People should be free to buy whatever insurance coverage from whatever insurance company they want. Or better yet, people should pay their bills out of pocket. Then watch competition explode. which was the way it was for decades. |
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Posted: 12/18/2014 11:48:59 PM EDT
[#6]
I'll let the progressive policy wonks in congress work that out.
<shrug> |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:09:27 AM EDT
[#7]
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People should be free to buy whatever insurance coverage from whatever insurance company they want. Or better yet, people should pay their bills out of pocket. Then watch competition explode. I'm one of the few who actually should have health insurance, and I agree. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:21:52 AM EDT
[#8]
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The fact that progressives are pushing hard for this. So I ask, how would it be funded? I don't support and I am curious to how such a universal program would be funded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does anybody have any realistic ways/approaches to pay for national single payer health care in the USA? What would it take to pay for such a system? Thanks Given the track record of the government to fuck up wet dreams, what drives you to ask this question? The fact that progressives are pushing hard for this. So I ask, how would it be funded? I don't support and I am curious to how such a universal program would be funded. You're not asking the right questions. More relevant: How will it be rationed? Who will receive priority? What procedures will be allowed? When single payer finally happens, they won't try to "pay" for it. They'll try to "manage costs." And that will mean telling doctors what they will be paid. IOW, price controls for healthcare. Single payer means you take what the government offers or you get out of medicine. And most Americans will cheer while the government does it. They'll clap their hands raw as the Feds sow the seeds for their own demise. After, it won't be a question of how to pay for things... it will be a question of how to ration what's left. Those with the means to do so will travel abroad for anything more serious than a flu shot. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 1:50:20 AM EDT
[#9]
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Sure Take a plane ride to a tropical island. When you land you'll be greeted by Hervé Villechaize and Ricardo Montalban. They will show you the way Can Aldo Nova be there too? Please tell me Aldo Nova will be there. I so want to go! |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:19:08 AM EDT
[#10]
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 We're gonna need a bigger boat!Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Can America ship our fatties over there? We're gonna need a bigger boat!Hilarious |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:20:48 AM EDT
[#11]
Serious answer: Go away.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:26:00 AM EDT
[#12]
I'm all for having the singles pay for us married folks.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:38:28 AM EDT
[#13]
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What would it take to pay for such a system? Taxes and borrowing, the same methods which are used to finance all Federal government programs. In this case employers would pay some tax and individuals would pay some tax. All expenses in excess of revenues would be met through borrowing. Some long as the utilities continue to supply electricity to the Federal Reserve banks, the supply of money is endless. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:39:54 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It just so happens that Vermont did the math and figured it was too expensive, even for them: http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/18/vermont-kills-single-payer-health-care-p They figured they would have to impose an extra 11.5% tax on businesses, and an additional 9.5% tax on income, to pay for it. And if a tiny state can't afford it, how do you expect the US to afford it? |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:41:39 AM EDT
[#15]
lol
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:41:59 AM EDT
[#16]
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People should be free to buy whatever insurance coverage from whatever insurance company they want. Or better yet, people should pay their bills out of pocket. Then watch competition explode. How many of the respondents here actually do "buy" their health insurance? By that I mean buy it on the open market, and not through their jobs. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:45:45 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Forget about the costs. You don't want government employees working on your body. Read about the VA if you need any more proof. Well, he asked about single payer. What you're describing is national health care like in Britain where hospitals are run by the government. National health insurance just deals with how those doctors and hospitals get paid. You could have single payer health care but still have privately owned hospitals. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:53:35 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Welfare bums, and everyone else. NO exceptions. There can't be any. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So I take it a 'universal healthcare tax' on everyone is out of the question? Everyone? Really, who do you mean exactly? You want the poor to cough up a extra $10,000 a year or something? Everyone and anyone a US citizen So many households will be putting forth 50-60% of their income towards a health tax. At least that will spur in the dissolution of our American socialist state--not a bad thing. Welfare bums, and everyone else. NO exceptions. There can't be any. You naive 14er???  People will just quit working when the tax is excessive enough. Are you then going to start forcing people to work at the point of a gun? Yes, in the end that's the only way to make a socialist/communist utopian society work. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 9:54:53 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol Serious question: how do you like the health care system in your country? Would you change it? |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:00:45 AM EDT
[#20]
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Does anybody have any realistic ways/approaches to pay for national single payer health care in the USA? What would it take to pay for such a system? Thanks Something of the magnitude that it would take would have to be supported by a MAJORITY of Americans. I think it should be started at the state level. A referendum at every state to see if this is supported by a MAJORITY of Americans. If the referendum shows that a MAJORITY of Americans support single payer system, then the states should figure out how to collect enough money to pay for it and operate it. We don't have a taxing problem, so figuring out how to pay for it will not be difficult. The federal government one size fits all approach is NOT the way to go. Keep in mind that this is now SOCIALISM. The government will be able to decide what is best for its citizens. Decisions will be made on the good of all, not on an individual basis. Should the government spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to prolong the life of a 40 year old woman or spend that money to make sure that every child in two counties gets a yearly check-up? What if the person was an 80 year old man? What if the 40 year old woman was the mother to 4 kids? What if the two counties in question had an un-employment rate of 20%? This is why the whole premise of single payer system needs to be supported by a MAJORITY of Americans. Because it will affect every single person in some way that will be contrary to that person's wishes. You cannot just assume that this is the way to go and shove it down the throats of Americans. It is a bad idea. It is not what this country was founded on. The better idea is to figure out a way to get Americans working. That way every citizen can determine one's own happiness. Get it out of your head that a single payer system for health care is what is best for this country. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:01:04 AM EDT
[#21]
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Does anybody have any realistic ways/approaches to pay for national single payer health care in the USA? In a single payer health care system, the only approach to making it feasible is to limit access to healthcare and/or limit quality of healthcare. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:03:20 AM EDT
[#22]
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This. My version of single payer involves my doctor and I settling on a mutually agreeable price. Buying health insurance should not be any more difficult than buying car or home insurance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We need government out of health care, not owning it. This. My version of single payer involves my doctor and I settling on a mutually agreeable price. Buying health insurance should not be any more difficult than buying car or home insurance. This is what I've done my entire life. Recently I needed an emergency heart surgery that totaled $104,000.00 Guess what, I'm paying it out of pocket plus interest. And I'm STILL money ahead for not paying those stoopidly high premiums on top of deductables and co-pays ect all these years. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:06:02 AM EDT
[#23]
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The fact that progressives are pushing hard for this. So I ask, how would it be funded? Short answer, it cannot be funded. Nobody who has projected the potential costs can responsibly say that this can be funded without restrictions. Restrictions you say? Yes, you cannot grant health care to everyone and expect it to be paid for by everyone. Don't get into the argument with a progressive about how to fund it. Ask them the hard questions about how will everyone be taken care of? Who will decide if a person gets life prolonging treatment? Who will decide if a person gets aggressive cancer treatment or is just made comfortable to die in less pain? We all get wrapped up in funding and forget to ask how and who. Don't play into the funding questions because you are assuming that single payer is a viable option when in reality it is not. I don't support and I am curious to how such a universal program would be funded. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does anybody have any realistic ways/approaches to pay for national single payer health care in the USA? What would it take to pay for such a system? Thanks Given the track record of the government to fuck up wet dreams, what drives you to ask this question? The fact that progressives are pushing hard for this. So I ask, how would it be funded? Short answer, it cannot be funded. Nobody who has projected the potential costs can responsibly say that this can be funded without restrictions. Restrictions you say? Yes, you cannot grant health care to everyone and expect it to be paid for by everyone. Don't get into the argument with a progressive about how to fund it. Ask them the hard questions about how will everyone be taken care of? Who will decide if a person gets life prolonging treatment? Who will decide if a person gets aggressive cancer treatment or is just made comfortable to die in less pain? We all get wrapped up in funding and forget to ask how and who. Don't play into the funding questions because you are assuming that single payer is a viable option when in reality it is not. I don't support and I am curious to how such a universal program would be funded. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:07:26 AM EDT
[#24]
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So I take it a 'universal healthcare tax' on everyone is out of the question? I hope your playing devil's advocate here and not just trolling. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:09:28 AM EDT
[#25]
FPNI
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:10:51 AM EDT
[#26]
I would be more for an outright ban on health insurance before single payer system.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:13:15 AM EDT
[#27]
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Yup. Gonna post just this. And if a tiny state can't afford it, how do you expect the US to afford it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It just so happens that Vermont did the math and figured it was too expensive, even for them: http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/18/vermont-kills-single-payer-health-care-p They figured they would have to impose an extra 11.5% tax on businesses, and an additional 9.5% tax on income, to pay for it. And if a tiny state can't afford it, how do you expect the US to afford it? Dang, beat three times over. But it bears repeating. Beat the drums with this. Any time some lib mentions it just say, "Oh yeah, Like Vermont?" It is a clear precedent. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:20:28 AM EDT
[#28]
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No. And stop calling it "single payer." That's a liberal-speak euphemism for socialist health care. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does anybody have any realistic ways/approaches to pay for national single payer health care in the USA? What would it take to pay for such a system? Thanks No. And stop calling it "single payer." That's a liberal-speak euphemism for socialist health care. This is so true. We let the left control the speech. There is no "single payer" no matter what. Al Gore, Donald Trump? Joe Snuffy? It's "single provider" if they are least honest, "socialized medicine" is what it IS. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:24:56 AM EDT
[#29]
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Serious question: how do you like the health care system in your country? Would you change it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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lol Serious question: how do you like the health care system in your country? Would you change it? The healthcare here is excellent, but you might have to wait a while before you get care. Our current system is based on a combination of nationalized care, and private insurance. I would prefer a privatization, as I have no desire to pay for leeches. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:24:28 AM EDT
[#30]
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Does anybody have any realistic ways/approaches to pay for national single payer health care in the USA? What would it take to pay for such a system? Thanks What part of Capitalism do you not understand? Health Care should be Insurance Free. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:29:28 AM EDT
[#31]
I'm all for single-payer health care.
The single person that needs the care is the single mother fucker that pays for it. Period. Or he doesn't get it. The notion that we should take some of the brightest, hard-working people in our society, have them spend practically their entire early adulthood and huge sums of money learning medicine, and then after they're done they should become state-owned slaves... is beyond mere stupidity. 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:33:52 AM EDT
[#32]
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We need government out of health care, not owning it. FPNI. ANd there is no such thing as "single payer." That's code for the working guy paying for someone else's healthcare. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:55:00 AM EDT
[#33]
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Yup. Gonna post just this. And if a tiny state can't afford it, how do you expect the US to afford it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It just so happens that Vermont did the math and figured it was too expensive, even for them: http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/18/vermont-kills-single-payer-health-care-p They figured they would have to impose an extra 11.5% tax on businesses, and an additional 9.5% tax on income, to pay for it. And if a tiny state can't afford it, how do you expect the US to afford it? I don't expect it. I expect it to ruin this country if enacted |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:56:39 AM EDT
[#34]
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Well, he asked about single payer. What you're describing is national health care like in Britain where hospitals are run by the government. National health insurance just deals with how those doctors and hospitals get paid. You could have single payer health care but still have privately owned hospitals. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Forget about the costs. You don't want government employees working on your body. Read about the VA if you need any more proof. Well, he asked about single payer. What you're describing is national health care like in Britain where hospitals are run by the government. National health insurance just deals with how those doctors and hospitals get paid. You could have single payer health care but still have privately owned hospitals. If the government is the only source of income to the hospital how is it any different? You know they would ultimately control the actions of the hospital if they controlled the money. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:57:21 AM EDT
[#35]
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I hope your playing devil's advocate here and not just trolling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So I take it a 'universal healthcare tax' on everyone is out of the question? I hope your playing devil's advocate here and not just trolling. I am genuinely asking how such a system would be funded. I hear people talk about it. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 11:58:25 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: somebody gets it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We need government out of health care, not owning it. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:02:08 PM EDT
[#37]
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I've never understood just what the government has ever done that would encourage folks to think that giving them a monopoly on people's access to health care is a good idea. Ive always tried to tell people to try this: The next time you get a pretty decent cut, go apply for a replacement Social Security card, change the address on your passport, and mail a certified letter before you bandage it and stop the bleeding. Then tell me how much you want the federal government running health care.
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:02:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am genuinely asking how such a system would be funded. I hear people talk about it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So I take it a 'universal healthcare tax' on everyone is out of the question? I hope your playing devil's advocate here and not just trolling. I am genuinely asking how such a system would be funded. I hear people talk about it. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:03:53 PM EDT
[#39]
Here are my thoughts.
If we are so civilized that we can't deny care to anyone (including people who can't pay) then we need a form of government health care. There should be government hospitals for people without insurance but they shouldn't be extravagant. Maybe 3-4 per state kind of like the VA. These hospitals would provide basic care and surgeries but not the top dollar stuff like transplants and $10000000 cancer treatments. Rationing based on the budget set by congress would exist in the government hospitals. For all the working folks in this country private health care should still exist. Private hospitals and clinics would be able to deny care to people who can't pay and send them to the government hospitals. Prices would drop on costs and insurance premiums. This would also give people an incentive to work and get private health insurance. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:04:56 PM EDT
[#40]
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Through massive taxation on a minority of the population. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So I take it a 'universal healthcare tax' on everyone is out of the question? I hope your playing devil's advocate here and not just trolling. I am genuinely asking how such a system would be funded. I hear people talk about it. And an even more massive degradation in the level of care available. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:07:05 PM EDT
[#41]
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Through massive taxation on a minority of the population. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So I take it a 'universal healthcare tax' on everyone is out of the question? I hope your playing devil's advocate here and not just trolling. I am genuinely asking how such a system would be funded. I hear people talk about it. Sounds like that is the only way unless they also use some kind of VAT tax on goods and services as well. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:07:32 PM EDT
[#42]
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Single payer means: - no competition - no accountability - no motivation - no creativity - no innovation - no new technology - rationing of services It's not what it costs.... it's that it leads to mediocrity for everyone. Never mind the fact that it puts government in control of your health. and - no reason to CARE FOR THE ELDERLY |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 12:09:38 PM EDT
[#43]
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somebody gets it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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We need government out of health care, not owning it. A lot of us get it. We are not insipid progressives. |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:46:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Meanwhile in the EU today, a judge declared obesity a disability! 
Perfect two of the seven deadly sins, (sloth and gluttony) and you can be fully taxpayer subsidized! Socialized medicine.
Fat = Free Money This post is relevant to my interests 
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:47:48 PM EDT
[#45]
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A country that is both culturally homogenous, and the culture of which includes a strong work ethic and embarrassment at being a burden on the public fisc ... yeah, maybe. I'd still bet that such a system would not offer the same pinnacle of care and innovation as a capitalist system, though, even if it offered a fiscally sound level of reasonably good care to all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It can work semi ok in a small,country full,of educated responsible people with a non lazy mentality. That ain't the usa A country that is both culturally homogenous, and the culture of which includes a strong work ethic and embarrassment at being a burden on the public fisc ... yeah, maybe. I'd still bet that such a system would not offer the same pinnacle of care and innovation as a capitalist system, though, even if it offered a fiscally sound level of reasonably good care to all. Agreed |
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Posted: 12/19/2014 10:53:42 PM EDT
[#46]
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Does anybody have any realistic ways/approaches to pay for national single payer health care in the USA? What would it take to pay for such a system? Thanks What it would take is for everyone from the patient to the doctor to the facility to conscientiously only use what they need when they need it, do good preventative care and never try to game the system to make a few extra bucks. In other words it'll never happen because when shit's free people tend to abuse it. The only way to make health care "affordable" is to reduce or eliminate the gap between the person who pays and the person who gets the service and punish those who abuse the system like crackheads and welfare queens who dial 911 because they're bored or have a cough. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 12:37:43 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What it would take is for everyone from the patient to the doctor to the facility to conscientiously only use what they need when they need it, do good preventative care and never try to game the system to make a few extra bucks. In other words it'll never happen because when shit's free people tend to abuse it. The only way to make health care "affordable" is to reduce or eliminate the gap between the person who pays and the person who gets the service and punish those who abuse the system like crackheads and welfare queens who dial 911 because they're bored or have a cough. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Does anybody have any realistic ways/approaches to pay for national single payer health care in the USA? What would it take to pay for such a system? Thanks What it would take is for everyone from the patient to the doctor to the facility to conscientiously only use what they need when they need it, do good preventative care and never try to game the system to make a few extra bucks. In other words it'll never happen because when shit's free people tend to abuse it. The only way to make health care "affordable" is to reduce or eliminate the gap between the person who pays and the person who gets the service and punish those who abuse the system like crackheads and welfare queens who dial 911 because they're bored or have a cough. Or be forced to ration care to everyone |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 1:55:47 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup. Gonna post just this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It just so happens that Vermont did the math and figured it was too expensive, even for them: http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/18/vermont-kills-single-payer-health-care-p They figured they would have to impose an extra 11.5% tax on businesses, and an additional 9.5% tax on income, to pay for it. And if a tiny state can't afford it, how do you expect the US to afford it? More importantly, if the liberal, socialist-leaning governor of a small, ethnically homogenous state can't make it work, then it's not going to come close to working in the rest of the US. |
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Posted: 12/20/2014 9:59:22 PM EDT
[#49]
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And if a tiny state can't afford it, how do you expect the US to afford it? More importantly, if the liberal, socialist-leaning governor of a small, ethnically homogenous state can't make it work, then it's not going to come close to working in the rest of the US. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It just so happens that Vermont did the math and figured it was too expensive, even for them: http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/18/vermont-kills-single-payer-health-care-p They figured they would have to impose an extra 11.5% tax on businesses, and an additional 9.5% tax on income, to pay for it. More importantly, if the liberal, socialist-leaning governor of a small, ethnically homogenous state can't make it work, then it's not going to come close to working in the rest of the US. I've heard more than one conservative claim that social welfare works pretty good so long as a country is ethnically homogenous. I don't pretend to understand the logic behind that statement, either. |
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