User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 4:35:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kpel308]
[#1]
Hit for USD$20.
Missed page ownage turned up to 11. 
|
|
|
|
PA, USA
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 4:38:41 PM EDT
[#2]
Fuck yes.
In on 11. |
|
|
USA
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 4:43:30 PM EDT
[#3]
This is nice and all, but IMO I wish they could go after minimum rifle/shotgun length and suppressors first. I'd rather have a short rifle which can be suppressed than a full auto without the extra hoops and costs. But progress is progress.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 4:48:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: KeithC]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m:
This is nice and all, but IMO I wish they could go after minimum rifle/shotgun length and suppressors first. I'd rather have a short rifle which can be suppressed than a full auto without the extra hoops and costs. But progress is progress. I know it was just a "wish" statement but look at the bigger picture. This is the first opening we've gotten. Doesn't matter what it is. If we win it, it become precedent to maybe start looking at those other things. I honestly have zero desire to own a machine gun. But I'll donate the cost of one, if I can afford it, to secure the right to one. ETA: Just saw the "progress is progress" line. Apologies for being redundant. I'll still leave the above here for doubting lurkers. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 4:49:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SonicRaT:
So, to play a bit of devils advocate, I had some thoughts while reading through. Considering that Miller and Heller will be the primary precedents that shape the outcome of this -- wouldn't it perhaps have been better to attempt to deconstruct the opinions presented in Heller rather than selectively using portions for support? Do you even lawyer, bro? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 4:52:25 PM EDT
[#6]
Great job!
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 4:55:21 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR:
That is how complaints work. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EagleArmsHBAR:
Originally Posted By SonicRaT:
So, to play a bit of devils advocate, I had some thoughts while reading through. Considering that Miller and Heller will be the primary precedents that shape the outcome of this -- wouldn't it perhaps have been better to attempt to deconstruct the opinions presented in Heller rather than selectively using portions for support? For example: 10. The Second Amendment guarantees "the right of law-abiding, responsible citizens to use arms in defense of hearth and home.” District of Columbia v. Heller , 554 U.S. 570, 635, 128 S.Ct. 2783, 2821, 171 L.Ed.2d. 637, 683 (2008). In addition, Heller also held that the Second Amendment guarantees not only an individual right to bear arms unconnected with militia service but that it "extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms.” Id . at 582, 2792. When I read that, I start thinking, ok he just quoted Heller which also states, specifically on this matter, Hush now. He wants to mock our esteemed barrister and his faggty talk. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:02:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: krpind]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MaxxII:
I'm killing that link because of the info on that form...krp What does NTXT mean over on that forum? I'm confused. I didn't think there could exist a shittier thead format than DU..... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:02:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: krpind]
[#9]
I'm killing that link because of the info on that form...krp
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:03:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: krpind]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mean_sartin:
I didn't think there could exist a shittier thead format than DU..... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mean_sartin:
Originally Posted By MaxxII:
I'm killing that link because of the info on that form...krp What does NTXT mean over on that forum? I'm confused. I didn't think there could exist a shittier thead format than DU..... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:04:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m:
This is nice and all, but IMO I wish they could go after minimum rifle/shotgun length and suppressors first. I'd rather have a short rifle which can be suppressed than a full auto without the extra hoops and costs. But progress is progress. If FA is knocked out the rest has to follow. Nolo has alluded to attacking everything as well. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:05:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: krpind]
[#12]
I'm killing that link because of the info on that form...krp
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:07:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mean_sartin:
If FA is knocked out the rest has to follow. Nolo has alluded to attacking everything as well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mean_sartin:
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
This is nice and all, but IMO I wish they could go after minimum rifle/shotgun length and suppressors first. I'd rather have a short rifle which can be suppressed than a full auto without the extra hoops and costs. But progress is progress. If FA is knocked out the rest has to follow. Nolo has alluded to attacking everything as well. It's not just an allusion. Section 68(1) and 68(4) go after all of the NFA and Hughes. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:08:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Undefined:
Nolo is doing a great thing, but do not forget Mr. Hollis. What he is doing is the very meaning of bravery, as you know the defendant in this case is going to make his life a living hell for a long time to come. If you're reading this, Mr. Hollis, please know that you are one hell of a brave man and you have our support. Amen! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:10:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brian86992:
I nominate Nolo for Arf member of the year DECADE  He is the OP for the Fast and Furious thread, too. 
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:10:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Undefined:
It's not just an allusion. Section 68(1) and 68(4) go after all of the NFA and Hughes. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Undefined:
Originally Posted By mean_sartin:
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
This is nice and all, but IMO I wish they could go after minimum rifle/shotgun length and suppressors first. I'd rather have a short rifle which can be suppressed than a full auto without the extra hoops and costs. But progress is progress. If FA is knocked out the rest has to follow. Nolo has alluded to attacking everything as well. It's not just an allusion. Section 68(1) and 68(4) go after all of the NFA and Hughes. I hadn't read the complaint yet so I couldn't say for sure. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:12:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m:
This is nice and all, but IMO I wish they could go after minimum rifle/shotgun length and suppressors first. I'd rather have a short rifle which can be suppressed than a full auto without the extra hoops and costs. But progress is progress. 1...Machine guns have no minimum length requirements. 2...Nolo is going after everything. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:13:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m: This is nice and all, but IMO I wish they could go after minimum rifle/shotgun length and suppressors first. I'd rather have a short rifle which can be suppressed than a full auto without the extra hoops and costs. But progress is progress. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:14:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By RyJones: Originally Posted By NoloContendere: Summons to Eric Holder and B Todd Jones in first post. https://www.scribd.com/doc/245098266/4-Summons-to-Holder-B-Todd Right click, save as Thanks! |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:33:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuxorDeathbed:
I work in legal "areas" per say and occasionally have to breeze over court docs. Understanding how court works, this is going to be epic reading/following. I need to learn the case numbers and court online look up to follow them... please keep us updated as Nolo will be busy 
Perhaps your screenname as Size 5 header in the post so we can pick out your particular update
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:34:40 PM EDT
[#21]
Just sent another $50 and next week you need to break away one day and let me buy you lunch
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:38:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By zanemasterx:
It can go three ways: 1. They rule against him, but don't give the ATF power to arbitrarily revoke tax stamps. We are back at square one. Law enforcement loophole is carved out. 2. They rule in favor of the defendant, citing Miller. Machine guns are now able to be manufactured by unincorporated trusts. People can make machine guns with a form one now. 3. They give the ATF power to arbitrarily revoke stamps. We're fucked. or 4. They rule LEOs are also prohibited from possessing MGs. (unlikely) |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:39:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Nice 20k OP... I hope this goes well. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Nice 20k OP... I hope this goes well. You never know, but it would take an exceptionally Intellectually Dishonest court to decide against the plaintif based on the claims in the complaint. IANAL, but..... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:41:24 PM EDT
[#24]
This was just on the front page of Yahoo.
http://www.examiner.com/article/lawsuit-challenges-federal-machine-gun-ban |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:42:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
All the rulings even from the 9th circuit all deal with the historical intent of the 2nd amendment. So with that pretty much the only restrictions were for those who were felons, mentally ill and slaves. If you wanted to own a cannon you could without government permission. As a free man your only limitation was the amount of money you could spend. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Limitations have always been in place on the 2nd dating back to common law. For some reason folks think there was just a free for all when it came to weapons back then but it was not that way. With that said about the only limitations there were concerned felons with firearms/weapons. There was a great thread here once with Eric The Hun and others discussing all of it. Wish I had saved the link. I care about how things were only within the context of considering how those facts can be used to expand human Liberty today. All the rulings even from the 9th circuit all deal with the historical intent of the 2nd amendment. So with that pretty much the only restrictions were for those who were felons, mentally ill and slaves. If you wanted to own a cannon you could without government permission. As a free man your only limitation was the amount of money you could spend. As it once was, so shall it be again. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:56:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
All the rulings even from the 9th circuit all deal with the historical intent of the 2nd amendment. So with that pretty much the only restrictions were for those who were felons, mentally ill and slaves. If you wanted to own a cannon you could without government permission. As a free man your only limitation was the amount of money you could spend. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Limitations have always been in place on the 2nd dating back to common law. For some reason folks think there was just a free for all when it came to weapons back then but it was not that way. With that said about the only limitations there were concerned felons with firearms/weapons. There was a great thread here once with Eric The Hun and others discussing all of it. Wish I had saved the link. I care about how things were only within the context of considering how those facts can be used to expand human Liberty today. All the rulings even from the 9th circuit all deal with the historical intent of the 2nd amendment. So with that pretty much the only restrictions were for those who were felons, mentally ill and slaves. If you wanted to own a cannon you could without government permission. As a free man your only limitation was the amount of money you could spend. And often did! The prime example being Privateers who, in absence of an adequate Navy, were granted letters of Marque and Reprisal from Congress. They often were the size of warships "below the rates" - brigs and schooners with 20 or so cannon. While they could not stand against even 5th rate (by themselves), they were a not insignificant force for commerce raiding. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:58:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KeithC:
I know it was just a "wish" statement but look at the bigger picture. This is the first opening we've gotten. Doesn't matter what it is. If we win it, it become precedent to maybe start looking at those other things. I honestly have zero desire to own a machine gun. But I'll donate the cost of one, if I can afford it, to secure the right to one. ETA: Just saw the "progress is progress" line. Apologies for being redundant. I'll still leave the above here for doubting lurkers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KeithC:
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
This is nice and all, but IMO I wish they could go after minimum rifle/shotgun length and suppressors first. I'd rather have a short rifle which can be suppressed than a full auto without the extra hoops and costs. But progress is progress. I know it was just a "wish" statement but look at the bigger picture. This is the first opening we've gotten. Doesn't matter what it is. If we win it, it become precedent to maybe start looking at those other things. I honestly have zero desire to own a machine gun. But I'll donate the cost of one, if I can afford it, to secure the right to one. ETA: Just saw the "progress is progress" line. Apologies for being redundant. I'll still leave the above here for doubting lurkers. You work with the cards you are dealt. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 5:59:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Trick or treat motherfuckers!
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 6:13:13 PM EDT
[#29]
October surprise, bitches!
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 6:21:46 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m:
This is nice and all, but IMO I wish they could go after minimum rifle/shotgun length and suppressors first. I'd rather have a short rifle which can be suppressed than a full auto without the extra hoops and costs. But progress is progress. That's about the same fucked up line of thinking that the fudds used to say when talking about "Assault Weapons"..... "I'm ok with it as long as they don't take my shotgun." |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 6:25:11 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOtherDave:
That's about the same fucked up line of thinking that the fudds used to say when talking about "Assault Weapons"..... "I'm ok with it as long as they don't take my shotgun." Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
This is nice and all, but IMO I wish they could go after minimum rifle/shotgun length and suppressors first. I'd rather have a short rifle which can be suppressed than a full auto without the extra hoops and costs. But progress is progress. That's about the same fucked up line of thinking that the fudds used to say when talking about "Assault Weapons"..... "I'm ok with it as long as they don't take my shotgun." Well, like, maybe they'll be nice and settle for reducing the barrel length restriction by an inch every 50 years or so you know, go slow right? Cause if it goes wrong it could be worse after all...and I mean we don't wanna do that so maybe, yeah lets maybe just ask them to start with barrel length needs to be 15.5'' that'd be progress right? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 6:27:50 PM EDT
[#32]
NoloContendere, we really appreciate that there are men like you out there working hard for us.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 6:28:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOtherDave:
That's about the same fucked up line of thinking that the fudds used to say when talking about "Assault Weapons"..... "I'm ok with it as long as they don't take my shotgun." Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheOtherDave:
Originally Posted By Flogger23m:
This is nice and all, but IMO I wish they could go after minimum rifle/shotgun length and suppressors first. I'd rather have a short rifle which can be suppressed than a full auto without the extra hoops and costs. But progress is progress. That's about the same fucked up line of thinking that the fudds used to say when talking about "Assault Weapons"..... "I'm ok with it as long as they don't take my shotgun." Flogger's argument is reasonable, but it is akin to gays going after civil unions instead of marriage. If you're going to pony up and roll the dice, go for the jackpot. An attack on the NFA is unthinkable by most. It's impossible. It's like a bunch of farmers, settlers and rich land owners attacking the world's most powerful military. It couldn't possibly work... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 6:32:42 PM EDT
[#34]
In on 11 - I'm always late to the party!
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 6:33:58 PM EDT
[#35]
in
|
|
|
|
TX, USA
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 6:56:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Sorry to be late for this Epic battle. My gut tells me Holder will drag this out until he's out of office.
|
|
|
AK, USA
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 7:25:37 PM EDT
[#37]
I think I shall follow this as well.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 7:42:54 PM EDT
[#38]
Wow, best 20k post EVAR!
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 7:45:38 PM EDT
[#39]
BOOM!!!
NOLO is an Operator! I'll be donating. Repeatedly, as funds allow.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 7:46:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NoloContendere:
Certified mail went out today with copies of the complaint and summons to B Todd Jones and Eric H. Holder, Jr. Dammit, where is the like button? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 7:47:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Didn't Holder resign?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 7:50:15 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flogger23m:
This is nice and all, but IMO I wish they could go after minimum rifle/shotgun length and suppressors first. I'd rather have a short rifle which can be suppressed than a full auto without the extra hoops and costs. But progress is progress. Machineguns have no length limit. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 7:50:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KeithC:
Then we will donate more. And I will get a second job. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KeithC:
Originally Posted By usjet:
$50k isn't even going to cover printing, postage and coffee before this is over........ Then we will donate more. And I will get a second job. Now WHAT ABOUT THE FIREARMS CORPORATIONS? They should be pouring money at this. |
|
|
|
KS, USA
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 7:55:00 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow:
Now WHAT ABOUT THE FIREARMS CORPORATIONS? They should be pouring money at this. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow:
Originally Posted By KeithC:
Originally Posted By usjet:
$50k isn't even going to cover printing, postage and coffee before this is over........ Then we will donate more. And I will get a second job. Now WHAT ABOUT THE FIREARMS CORPORATIONS? They should be pouring money at this. They won't help with it because it will bottom out their market also... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 7:55:15 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Now WHAT ABOUT THE FIREARMS CORPORATIONS? They should be pouring money at this. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Originally Posted By KeithC: Originally Posted By usjet: $50k isn't even going to cover printing, postage and coffee before this is over........ Then we will donate more. And I will get a second job. Now WHAT ABOUT THE FIREARMS CORPORATIONS? They should be pouring money at this. Maybe, but I don't think there will be many willing to pour money into this. Yes there might be some but I have a good feeling most will be wanting to be neutral as to stay on the Federal Gubermint's good side.  However, if there is a huge following, I will be willing to eat my own words.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 7:55:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Now WHAT ABOUT THE FIREARMS CORPORATIONS? They should be pouring money at this. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mancow: Originally Posted By KeithC: Originally Posted By usjet: $50k isn't even going to cover printing, postage and coffee before this is over........ Then we will donate more. And I will get a second job. Now WHAT ABOUT THE FIREARMS CORPORATIONS? They should be pouring money at this. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 7:57:08 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LuckyDucky:
Didn't Holder resign? He resigned to resign, without actually resigning... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 8:01:50 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mariner82:
And often did! The prime example being Privateers who, in absence of an adequate Navy, were granted letters of Marque and Reprisal from Congress. They often were the size of warships "below the rates" - brigs and schooners with 20 or so cannon. While they could not stand against even 5th rate (by themselves), they were a not insignificant force for commerce raiding. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mariner82:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Originally Posted By SimonPhoto:
Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Limitations have always been in place on the 2nd dating back to common law. For some reason folks think there was just a free for all when it came to weapons back then but it was not that way. With that said about the only limitations there were concerned felons with firearms/weapons. There was a great thread here once with Eric The Hun and others discussing all of it. Wish I had saved the link. I care about how things were only within the context of considering how those facts can be used to expand human Liberty today. All the rulings even from the 9th circuit all deal with the historical intent of the 2nd amendment. So with that pretty much the only restrictions were for those who were felons, mentally ill and slaves. If you wanted to own a cannon you could without government permission. As a free man your only limitation was the amount of money you could spend. And often did! The prime example being Privateers who, in absence of an adequate Navy, were granted letters of Marque and Reprisal from Congress. They often were the size of warships "below the rates" - brigs and schooners with 20 or so cannon. While they could not stand against even 5th rate (by themselves), they were a not insignificant force for commerce raiding. Patriot Pirates really opened my eyes up to what the Founders were trying to protect with the Second Amendment. I highly recommend everyone gets a copy. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 8:01:55 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Valintino:
Maybe, but I don't think there will be many willing to pour money into this. Yes there might be some but I have a good feeling most will be wanting to be neutral as to stay on the Federal Gubermint's good side.
However, if there is a huge following, I will be willing to eat my own words. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Valintino:
Originally Posted By mancow:
Originally Posted By KeithC:
Originally Posted By usjet:
$50k isn't even going to cover printing, postage and coffee before this is over........ Then we will donate more. And I will get a second job. Now WHAT ABOUT THE FIREARMS CORPORATIONS? They should be pouring money at this. Maybe, but I don't think there will be many willing to pour money into this. Yes there might be some but I have a good feeling most will be wanting to be neutral as to stay on the Federal Gubermint's good side.
However, if there is a huge following, I will be willing to eat my own words. They are often fair weather friends and all that... but emphasis on the word SHOULD. 
|
|
|
|
FL, USA
|
Posted: 10/31/2014 8:18:19 PM EDT
[#50]
As a minor contributor (A few bucks)I would like to say IN!!!
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
