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And theeeeerrreeee's the problem. They do. Soooooo, maybe drive a bit smarter. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Whenever you decide to encroach into another's lane it is 100% up to you to ensure that it can be done safely. Not the other person. They have every right to be anywhere in their lane, you don't. So next time I am riding my race bike, I will stay on my side and go fast even if it is just on my side on a blind left curve because if some dummy is half in my lane, I have every right to be there and they don't and if they are half in my lane and I hit them, it will be 100% their fault. I feel like I will live much longer as a biker now. Thanks. Patrick You could do that if assholes didn't lane cheat you. And theeeeerrreeee's the problem. They do. Soooooo, maybe drive a bit smarter. How about do that while also trying to give others insight on the problems faced on the roads everyday. |
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Nobody coming from the opposite direction at track days. The rider would still be around had he considered this option. No racetracks in Israel. No excuse for fucking around on public roads |
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How about do that while also trying to give others insight on the problems faced on the roads everyday. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Whenever you decide to encroach into another's lane it is 100% up to you to ensure that it can be done safely. Not the other person. They have every right to be anywhere in their lane, you don't. So next time I am riding my race bike, I will stay on my side and go fast even if it is just on my side on a blind left curve because if some dummy is half in my lane, I have every right to be there and they don't and if they are half in my lane and I hit them, it will be 100% their fault. I feel like I will live much longer as a biker now. Thanks. Patrick You could do that if assholes didn't lane cheat you. And theeeeerrreeee's the problem. They do. Soooooo, maybe drive a bit smarter. How about do that while also trying to give others insight on the problems faced on the roads everyday. Here's my insight into problems on the road today. When making a blind sweeping left curve, ride on the right side of the road and don't ride at an unsafe speed. Why? Because someone up ahead may be doing something illegal but you won't know it because your butt will be going through your head. Patrick |
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Here's my insight into problems on the road today. When making a blind sweeping left curve, ride on the right side of the road and don't ride at an unsafe speed. Why? Because someone up ahead may be doing something illegal but you won't know it because your butt will be going through your head. Patrick View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So next time I am riding my race bike, I will stay on my side and go fast even if it is just on my side on a blind left curve because if some dummy is half in my lane, I have every right to be there and they don't and if they are half in my lane and I hit them, it will be 100% their fault. I feel like I will live much longer as a biker now. Thanks. Patrick You could do that if assholes didn't lane cheat you. And theeeeerrreeee's the problem. They do. Soooooo, maybe drive a bit smarter. How about do that while also trying to give others insight on the problems faced on the roads everyday. Here's my insight into problems on the road today. When making a blind sweeping left curve, ride on the right side of the road and don't ride at an unsafe speed. Why? Because someone up ahead may be doing something illegal but you won't know it because your butt will be going through your head. Patrick That's all good until somebody pulls out of their driveway on your right side. They won't see you. |
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I say this as someone who spent the past 4 years solely on 2 wheels:
NEVER drive "blind" like that. Never drive faster than you can react to what might happen. Ultimately, it's not the other guy's fault if you get hurt/die, it's yours for driving stupid. The reason I'm here typing to you is because (other than a good dash of good luck of course) I never did anything half so stupid as I just saw in that video (and I was hardly a slow driver). Car is like 15% to blame for being a bit out of his lane, but in that situation you can't, as the rider, assume your lane is going to be totally clear. I don't know how bad Israel is with driving over the lines (in a lot of countries those lines are mere suggestions), but you can't just blow through a blind curve expecting your reaction zone to be clear of deathobstacles past your line of sight (which might be a considerable distance past that point on such a curve and at such speeds). So, he got unlucky, but drive like that enough and you're going to roll those snake eyes eventually. Mortality's a stats game after all. |
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I say this as someone who spent the past 4 years solely on 2 wheels: NEVER drive "blind" like that. Never drive faster than you can react to what might happen. Ultimately, it's not the other guy's fault if you get hurt/die, it's yours for driving stupid. The reason I'm here typing to you is because (other than a good dash of good luck of course) I never did anything half so stupid as I just saw in that video (and I was hardly a slow driver). Car is like 15% to blame for being a bit out of his lane, but in that situation you can't, as the rider, assume your lane is going to be totally clear. I don't know how bad Israel is with driving over the lines (in a lot of countries those lines are mere suggestions), but you can't just blow through a blind curve expecting your reaction zone to be clear of deathobstacles past your line of sight (which might be a considerable distance past that point on such a curve and at such speeds). So, he got unlucky, but drive like that enough and you're going to roll those snake eyes eventually. Mortality's a stats game after all. View Quote That's the disagreement above. You're talking mortality and the lawyer types are talking morality. |
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That's the disagreement above. You'retalking mortality and the lawyer typed are talking morality. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I say this as someone who spent the past 4 years solely on 2 wheels: NEVER drive "blind" like that. Never drive faster than you can react to what might happen. Ultimately, it's not the other guy's fault if you get hurt/die, it's yours for driving stupid. The reason I'm here typing to you is because (other than a good dash of good luck of course) I never did anything half so stupid as I just saw in that video (and I was hardly a slow driver). Car is like 15% to blame for being a bit out of his lane, but in that situation you can't, as the rider, assume your lane is going to be totally clear. I don't know how bad Israel is with driving over the lines (in a lot of countries those lines are mere suggestions), but you can't just blow through a blind curve expecting your reaction zone to be clear of deathobstacles past your line of sight (which might be a considerable distance past that point on such a curve and at such speeds). So, he got unlucky, but drive like that enough and you're going to roll those snake eyes eventually. Mortality's a stats game after all. That's the disagreement above. You'retalking mortality and the lawyer typed are talking morality. On a bike, mortality must come before morality. Very good. |
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That biker also target fixated on that car. Happens all the time.
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I don't see that. I see the car over the line and the biker right ON the line. The bike had plenty of room. Better vision might have saved him. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The car was in the middle of the road didn't give the bike anywhere to go. I don't see that. I see the car over the line and the biker right ON the line. The bike had plenty of room. Better vision might have saved him. ...and lower speed. |
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Car was in his lane. He tried to straighten up but bikes being bikes... Still when the collision happened he was in his lane.
Car driver was the offender here and should be punished. Still, rider is dead and he is the one who paid the price. |
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Car was in his lane. He tried to straighten up but bikes being bikes... Still when the collision happened he was in his lane. Car driver was the offender here and should be punished. Still, rider is dead and he is the one who paid the price. View Quote Car couldn't possibly have been giving a wide berth to all the pedestrians and parked bikes on the roadside. Nope. Perfect storm of bad decisions. Seems to me that everyone got what they paid for. |
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Car was in his lane. He tried to straighten up but bikes being bikes... Still when the collision happened he was in his lane. Car driver was the offender here and should be punished. Still, rider is dead and he is the one who paid the price. View Quote You say that like screaming around the corner at a speed where it's impossible to react isn't an offense. See where your problem is? |
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Motorcyclist comes down the road a few seconds earlier or later and the other vehicle isn't there, intriguing how the timing of all involved results in the accident, not just this one, but all accidents, and a bad choice by one or more of the actors.
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As has been stated in the thread already ......... This, big time. The bike had an out to the right if he chose to steer the bike. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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That biker also target fixated on that car. Happens all the time. As has been stated in the thread already ......... This, big time. The bike had an out to the right if he chose to steer the bike. Target fixation is a bitch to overcome. Got to prevent it, and that's hard to train. |
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Target fixation is a bitch to overcome. Got to prevent it, and that's hard to train. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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That biker also target fixated on that car. Happens all the time. As has been stated in the thread already ......... This, big time. The bike had an out to the right if he chose to steer the bike. Target fixation is a bitch to overcome. Got to prevent it, and that's hard to train. For sure, very difficult to avoid that 'lock up' that is the product of panic and fear. As far as training, I can say it is a fascinating phenomena as you learn to maintain focus through the turn even when things get dicey. The bike will turn. The thing stopping it from doing so is usually not on the motorcycle*, it's in between your ears. *(unless you have totally screwed the pooch. Then you're on your own.) |
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I think that as soon as the rider finished (apexed) the turn, he started looking at his friends on the shoulder of the road, and stopped concentrating on where his bike was going. All it would have taken was a nudge with his right hand on the bars and he would have been in the center of his lane and clear of the car. When it comes to speed, digital photography can be deceiving;, but the wreckage of the vehicles is a good indicator.
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For sure, very difficult to avoid that 'lock up' that is the product of panic and fear. As far as training, I can say it is a fascinating phenomena as you learn to maintain focus through the turn even when things get dicey. The bike will turn. The thing stopping it from doing so is usually not on the motorcycle*, it's in between your ears. *(unless you have totally screwed the pooch. Then you're on your own.) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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That biker also target fixated on that car. Happens all the time. As has been stated in the thread already ......... This, big time. The bike had an out to the right if he chose to steer the bike. Target fixation is a bitch to overcome. Got to prevent it, and that's hard to train. For sure, very difficult to avoid that 'lock up' that is the product of panic and fear. As far as training, I can say it is a fascinating phenomena as you learn to maintain focus through the turn even when things get dicey. The bike will turn. The thing stopping it from doing so is usually not on the motorcycle*, it's in between your ears. *(unless you have totally screwed the pooch. Then you're on your own.) It's one of the few things I think video games really help train. Racing sims especially. You get used to zipping around obstacles without dying when you fuck up. |
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I think off-road riding where you are constantly avoiding things you can't ride over is a good trainer for real world reactions to unexpected obstacles.
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What would you people be saying if the car stayed entirely in its lane, not giving any space to the bikes parked on the side of the road, saw the bike and then swerved right hitting and killing someone standing there watching the boy racer?
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Hey bro, I'm gonna take up half your lane and if you hit me doing 1mph more than the speed limit, I am going to say it was your fault....... GD response .
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What would you people be saying if the car stayed entirely in its lane, not giving any space to the bikes parked on the side of the road, saw the bike and then swerved right hitting and killing someone standing there watching the boy racer? View Quote Then it def would have been the car's fault. |
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Fault doesn't matter when you're dead. View Quote I've often posted here about the dangers of staying beside or behind an 18 wheeler, in threads about blown 18 wheeler tires. It never fails, a couple of tards will say "if that shit happens, i'll just fucking sue you". How're they gonna sue me if they're dead? |
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I've often posted here about the dangers of staying beside or behind an 18 wheeler, in threads about blown 18 wheeler tires. It never fails, a couple of tards will say "if that shit happens, i'll just fucking sue you". How're they gonna sue me if they're dead? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Fault doesn't matter when you're dead. I've often posted here about the dangers of staying beside or behind an 18 wheeler, in threads about blown 18 wheeler tires. It never fails, a couple of tards will say "if that shit happens, i'll just fucking sue you". How're they gonna sue me if they're dead? Exactly! little chunks of giblets can't sue. Busted tires (road gators) are a nasty surprise. That's one of the biggest reasons I give cars & trucks a wide berth. It doesn't take much for a car to flip one of those things up into the air and right into your personal space. |
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I am a member of the "Over the bars club" and not nailed by a guy in a van back in 1982.
What looked like an instant to onlooker seemed like slow motion and a eternity to me. The van driver got cited for failure to yield and got a ticket. I got three weeks in the hospital , many broken bones , a few surgeries and skin grafts. I slowed down to around 48 MPH before impact and that's like stepping out of a 4 story building and hitting the ground. Not good.... Please watch out for motorcycles and the ones driving like dicks deserve to get banged up and hopefully not hurt anyone except themselves. |
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Then it def would have been the car's fault. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What would you people be saying if the car stayed entirely in its lane, not giving any space to the bikes parked on the side of the road, saw the bike and then swerved right hitting and killing someone standing there watching the boy racer? Then it def would have been the car's fault. Bikes can do no wrong....I get it now. |
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I cannot believe that everyone thinks it's ok the driver was in the wrong lane heading into a blind corner.
On what planet is that ok? Giving room to pedestrians was a good decision for the car. Yeah I totally agree, next time I am on a blind corner I will simply drift into the opposing lane when I see anything within 10' of the highway. |
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Quoted: I cannot believe that everyone thinks it's ok the driver was in the wrong lane heading into a blind corner. On what planet is that ok? Giving room to pedestrians was a good decision for the car. Yeah I totally agree, next time I am on a blind corner I will simply drift into the opposing lane when I see anything within 10' of the highway. View Quote |
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Quoted: Watched it again. Some say target fixation, I think he was just going way too damn fast to do anything about it. Also darn near centerline of the road through the turn. I don't see the bike & rider diving forward on the brake, no veer to the the right, nothing. He was just about on the line before, and looks like on the line at the time of the collision. (He was headed toward oncoming lane). He was riding at a speed way too close to his peak ability to navigate the turn assuming that it's clear. Also, as Dan_Gray posted as well there are reasons a car might go outside the lane. Car was moving inside, had he been going slower he could have moved outside to his right he would have been fine. He was coming out of a turn, going outside shouldn't have been a problem. On a motorcycle, on public roads, you can't ride like that if you want to live. View Quote His line through the corner wasn't bad, considering. Looks like his wheels were near center of his lane and his head still inside his lane. I think he caught sight of the car in his lane, grabbed a handful of brake, forgot about steering and braked right into the car. Ironically, I think if he were less experienced, he probably would have washed out the front end by grabbing too much brake while still leaned over, and may have avoided impact with the car. |
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I cannot believe that everyone thinks it's ok the driver was in the wrong lane heading into a blind corner. On what planet is that ok? Giving room to pedestrians was a good decision for the car. Yeah I totally agree, next time I am on a blind corner I will simply drift into the opposing lane when I see anything within 10' of the highway. View Quote That car could've been perfectly legally passing another vehicle right where the impact happened. It's a dashed white line. The only reason the fact that it's a blind corner mattered is because the dumbfuck on the motorcycle was going too fast to avoid ANY obstacle in his lane, whether it be a car passing another car, a car stopped to turn left in his lane, a deer, or any other random thing. On what planet is it OK to go so so much over the speed limit around a blind corner that you have absolutely no chance to avoid an obstacle that is so far away from the corner that the center-line is still not even solid and still allows passing? It might seem like it's close to that corner, but the only thing that makes it seem like that from the video is the excessive speed of the guy on the motorcycle. If it was close to the corner there would be a solid white line (like there is farther down the road, if you look) |
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If you drag knees in turns blindly, you are asking for trouble. You should never ride close to your limits on public roads. Even with no cars on the road, a deer or racoon could cross the road any time and the rider would have zero margin to react. The car tried to give room to the bikers parked on the side, so it is hard to blame it for the accident even if it did cross the line.
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100+mph bet is closer to 60 mph, and you ask if I'm on crack? Don't know why I'm going to waste time with you but the cause of the accident was a vehicle traveling in the wrong lane. The bikes speed was excessive but was not the cause of the accident. If the car had been in its lane the accident wouldn't have happened. Pretty damn simple, well it should be. View Quote Your username is, fitting. |
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Quoted: If you drag knees in turns blindly, you are asking for trouble. You should never ride close to your limits on public roads. Even with no cars on the road, a deer or racoon could cross the road any time and the rider would have zero margin to react. The car tried to give room to the bikers parked on the side, so it is hard to blame it for the accident even if it did cross the line. View Quote |
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That car could've been perfectly legally passing another vehicle right where the impact happened. It's a dashed white line. The only reason the fact that it's a blind corner mattered is because the dumbfuck on the motorcycle was going too fast to avoid ANY obstacle in his lane, whether it be a car passing another car, a car stopped to turn left in his lane, a deer, or any other random thing. On what planet is it OK to go so so much over the speed limit around a blind corner that you have absolutely no chance to avoid an obstacle that is so far away from the corner that the center-line is still not even solid and still allows passing? It might seem like it's close to that corner, but the only thing that makes it seem like that from the video is the excessive speed of the guy on the motorcycle. If it was close to the corner there would be a solid white line (like there is farther down the road, if you look) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I cannot believe that everyone thinks it's ok the driver was in the wrong lane heading into a blind corner. On what planet is that ok? Giving room to pedestrians was a good decision for the car. Yeah I totally agree, next time I am on a blind corner I will simply drift into the opposing lane when I see anything within 10' of the highway. That car could've been perfectly legally passing another vehicle right where the impact happened. It's a dashed white line. The only reason the fact that it's a blind corner mattered is because the dumbfuck on the motorcycle was going too fast to avoid ANY obstacle in his lane, whether it be a car passing another car, a car stopped to turn left in his lane, a deer, or any other random thing. On what planet is it OK to go so so much over the speed limit around a blind corner that you have absolutely no chance to avoid an obstacle that is so far away from the corner that the center-line is still not even solid and still allows passing? It might seem like it's close to that corner, but the only thing that makes it seem like that from the video is the excessive speed of the guy on the motorcycle. If it was close to the corner there would be a solid white line (like there is farther down the road, if you look) NO, it would never ever ever of been perfectly legal. The car did not yield to oncoming traffic. The car did not wait until it was safe to do so. IF the bike was speeding, the he may assume partial fault, but it would very rarely be 100% the motorcycles fault. And in this case, no way. His speed wS not so excessive to be reckless. You people are trying to blame the motorcycle for poor reaction. |
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Rider was almost at center of the lane, driver was in the riders lane. They should of had cones or someone around the bend in case a car or truck took the turn and hogged the lanes. Driver is at fault, but it's a public road.
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Quoted: I think that as soon as the rider finished (apexed) the turn, he started looking at his friends on the shoulder of the road, and stopped concentrating on where his bike was going. All it would have taken was a nudge with his right hand on the bars and he would have been in the center of his lane and clear of the car. When it comes to speed, digital photography can be deceiving;, but the wreckage of the vehicles is a good indicator. View Quote The "apex" is NOT the end of the turn. It is approximately near the middle of the average turn. |
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Driving down the center line on a bike while going through curves is fucking stupid.
Heading into the oncoming lane in a car to clear a bunch of people on the side of the road on a curve is also pretty fucking stupid. The only difference I see here is that one person was fucking around for a camera and the other wasn't. |
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Driving down the center line on a bike while going through curves is fucking stupid. Heading into the oncoming lane in a car to clear a bunch of people on the side of the road on a curve is also pretty fucking stupid. The only difference I see here is that one person was fucking around for a camera and the other wasn't. View Quote The car wasn't 'on a curve'. It was before the curve, dashed white line. The motorcyclist came around the curve and into the straightaway and covered the distance to the car on the dashed white line extremely quickly due to his speed. |
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Anyone else who thinks the bike doing double the reasonable speed limit on the centerline of a twisty road wasn't the major contributing factor to the accident, please chime in so I know not to go riding with you.
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