User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:00:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistorySpetsnaz and Inuit have had more shootouts than we will ever know. Seriously? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:09:16 PM EDT
[#2]
I'm for a .308 no4 mkii. Or I'm for cranking up .303 production so there's some to surplus again. I'm happy either way.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:10:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The design is timeless. If arctic conditions are too extreme for a self-loading rifle, then restart manufacture of the No.4MkII with modern steels, and chambered for the 7.62 NATO cartridge. Or not. Nothing wrong with the .303, either. It has its own rule, after all. Damned right it does 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:11:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I read this years ago: "There is a persistent story, denied by the Pentagon but confirmed by Alaskan sources, that an Eskimo member of the Alaskan Scouts (National Guard) was apparently shot to death after stumbling upon a Spetsnaz reconaisance unit in Alaska. Reports indicate that authorities discovered footprints leading from the murder scene to the water's edge, as well as mini-sub tracks nearby in shallow water. In addition, a piece of equipment found at the scene was identified as being of Soviet origin. The incident has produced serious dissension within the ranks of the Alaskan Scouts: Several members have refused to patrol the area of the shooting and others have resigned. [Editor's note: SOF has learned that the item of Soviet equipment found next to the body of the Eskimo Scout on Little Diomede Island was a Soviet NBC decontamination kit. In addition, an autopsy performed on the scout revealed that he had been killed by a dum-dum bullet of a type known to be favored by Spetsnaz teams." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
snip Speculation, or have you read something? I read this years ago: "There is a persistent story, denied by the Pentagon but confirmed by Alaskan sources, that an Eskimo member of the Alaskan Scouts (National Guard) was apparently shot to death after stumbling upon a Spetsnaz reconaisance unit in Alaska. Reports indicate that authorities discovered footprints leading from the murder scene to the water's edge, as well as mini-sub tracks nearby in shallow water. In addition, a piece of equipment found at the scene was identified as being of Soviet origin. The incident has produced serious dissension within the ranks of the Alaskan Scouts: Several members have refused to patrol the area of the shooting and others have resigned. [Editor's note: SOF has learned that the item of Soviet equipment found next to the body of the Eskimo Scout on Little Diomede Island was a Soviet NBC decontamination kit. In addition, an autopsy performed on the scout revealed that he had been killed by a dum-dum bullet of a type known to be favored by Spetsnaz teams." This story, when mentioned to people in a position to know, produces various responses indicating that interesting things happened in Alaska during the Cold War. The natives used to go to Russia in the winter, too. And in the 70s you could poach polar bears in Russia if you were crazy enough. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:13:06 PM EDT
[#5]
Are the Canooks selling these to us or what?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:26:36 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm for a .308 no4 mkii. Or I'm for cranking up .303 production so there's some to surplus again. I'm happy either way. And they wouldn't even need to design the conversion, since all of the work in that regard has already been done. Something closer to a jungle carbine might be even better considering how far afield these guys might have to carry their rifles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:37:36 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And they wouldn't even need to design the conversion, since all of the work in that regard has already been done. Something closer to a jungle carbine might be even better considering how far afield these guys might have to carry their rifles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'm for a .308 no4 mkii. Or I'm for cranking up .303 production so there's some to surplus again. I'm happy either way. And they wouldn't even need to design the conversion, since all of the work in that regard has already been done. Something closer to a jungle carbine might be even better considering how far afield these guys might have to carry their rifles. Most excellent point bigstick. Install a more effective fluted flash suppressor. That's it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:39:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are the Canooks selling these to us or what? 
Last I heard on that matter, there was a bill moving through the Canadian government to allow the Rangers to purchase their Lee-Enfields once they're replaced, rather than destroying them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:41:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most excellent point bigstick. Install a more effective fluted flash suppressor. That's it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm for a .308 no4 mkii. Or I'm for cranking up .303 production so there's some to surplus again. I'm happy either way. And they wouldn't even need to design the conversion, since all of the work in that regard has already been done. Something closer to a jungle carbine might be even better considering how far afield these guys might have to carry their rifles. Most excellent point bigstick. Install a more effective fluted flash suppressor. That's it. Use a modern lightweight synthetic stock, too. MPI makes one for Lee-Enfields, so it is doable. Fit it with a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad (the rubber butt plate on the No.5 sucks). Install the centre swivel and use a speed-loop sling. The Brits are the ones that came up with those on the Lee-Enfield (which Cooper would later call the CW sling) and slinging up can help with steadiness quite a bit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:42:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This story, when mentioned to people in a position to know, produces various responses indicating that interesting things happened in Alaska during the Cold War. The natives used to go to Russia in the winter, too. And in the 70s you could poach polar bears in Russia if you were crazy enough. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
snip Speculation, or have you read something? I read this years ago: "There is a persistent story, denied by the Pentagon but confirmed by Alaskan sources, that an Eskimo member of the Alaskan Scouts (National Guard) was apparently shot to death after stumbling upon a Spetsnaz reconaisance unit in Alaska. Reports indicate that authorities discovered footprints leading from the murder scene to the water's edge, as well as mini-sub tracks nearby in shallow water. In addition, a piece of equipment found at the scene was identified as being of Soviet origin. The incident has produced serious dissension within the ranks of the Alaskan Scouts: Several members have refused to patrol the area of the shooting and others have resigned. [Editor's note: SOF has learned that the item of Soviet equipment found next to the body of the Eskimo Scout on Little Diomede Island was a Soviet NBC decontamination kit. In addition, an autopsy performed on the scout revealed that he had been killed by a dum-dum bullet of a type known to be favored by Spetsnaz teams." This story, when mentioned to people in a position to know, produces various responses indicating that interesting things happened in Alaska during the Cold War. The natives used to go to Russia in the winter, too. And in the 70s you could poach polar bears in Russia if you were crazy enough. It *was* well known that Soviet SF used to conduct patrols on U.S. soil in AK during the Cold War. Ivan didn't rest. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:44:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Use a modern lightweight synthetic stock, too. MPI makes one for Lee-Enfields, so it is doable. Fit it with a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad (the rubber butt plate on the No.5 sucks). Install the centre swivel and use a speed-loop sling. The Brits are the ones that came up with those on the Lee-Enfield (which Cooper would later call the CW sling) and slinging up can help with steadiness quite a bit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm for a .308 no4 mkii. Or I'm for cranking up .303 production so there's some to surplus again. I'm happy either way. And they wouldn't even need to design the conversion, since all of the work in that regard has already been done. Something closer to a jungle carbine might be even better considering how far afield these guys might have to carry their rifles. Most excellent point bigstick. Install a more effective fluted flash suppressor. That's it. Use a modern lightweight synthetic stock, too. MPI makes one for Lee-Enfields, so it is doable. Fit it with a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad (the rubber butt plate on the No.5 sucks). Install the centre swivel and use a speed-loop sling. The Brits are the ones that came up with those on the Lee-Enfield (which Cooper would later call the CW sling) and slinging up can help with steadiness quite a bit. They're going to have to sort out whatever issues there were with the zero on the No. 5, before they do anything like that. Well, determine if the issues with the zero actually exist, and then figure out how to fix it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:44:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Use a modern lightweight synthetic stock, too. MPI makes one for Lee-Enfields, so it is doable. Fit it with a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad (the rubber butt plate on the No.5 sucks). Install the centre swivel and use a speed-loop sling. The Brits are the ones that came up with those on the Lee-Enfield (which Cooper would later call the CW sling) and slinging up can help with steadiness quite a bit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm for a .308 no4 mkii. Or I'm for cranking up .303 production so there's some to surplus again. I'm happy either way. And they wouldn't even need to design the conversion, since all of the work in that regard has already been done. Something closer to a jungle carbine might be even better considering how far afield these guys might have to carry their rifles. Most excellent point bigstick. Install a more effective fluted flash suppressor. That's it. Use a modern lightweight synthetic stock, too. MPI makes one for Lee-Enfields, so it is doable. Fit it with a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad (the rubber butt plate on the No.5 sucks). Install the centre swivel and use a speed-loop sling. The Brits are the ones that came up with those on the Lee-Enfield (which Cooper would later call the CW sling) and slinging up can help with steadiness quite a bit. The potential for a practical MIL-SPEC PIP are practically limitless. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:46:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're going to have to sort out whatever issues there were with the zero on the No. 5, before they do anything like that. Well, determine if the issues with the zero actually exist, and then figure out how to fix it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm for a .308 no4 mkii. Or I'm for cranking up .303 production so there's some to surplus again. I'm happy either way. And they wouldn't even need to design the conversion, since all of the work in that regard has already been done. Something closer to a jungle carbine might be even better considering how far afield these guys might have to carry their rifles. Most excellent point bigstick. Install a more effective fluted flash suppressor. That's it. Use a modern lightweight synthetic stock, too. MPI makes one for Lee-Enfields, so it is doable. Fit it with a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad (the rubber butt plate on the No.5 sucks). Install the centre swivel and use a speed-loop sling. The Brits are the ones that came up with those on the Lee-Enfield (which Cooper would later call the CW sling) and slinging up can help with steadiness quite a bit. They're going to have to sort out whatever issues there were with the zero on the No. 5, before they do anything like that. Well, determine if the issues with the zero actually exist, and then figure out how to fix it. Easy fix. Like you say, determine if the problems actually existed in the first place. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:49:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Easy fix. Like you say, determine if the problems actually existed in the first place. Given that they're essentially looking for a COTS replacement, I doubt they're interested in doing that amount of R&D. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:52:40 PM EDT
[#15]
I hope they make it over here...I could sure use another 1950 Long Branch!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:55:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None of these rifles are ever going to see combat. edit this is all really just stuff that's fun for gun guys to talk about on the internet I doubt that if you took any of us and tossed us in a snowbank in northern Canada and said "Don't come back for five years!" it would matter whether the first rifle we managed to scrounge was a lee enfield, m1903, commercial ruger, MG42, despite the bears, wolves and meeses I bet there are a shitload of locals running around up there with mini 14s, 10/22s and even ancient single shot .22s etc Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If I ever had to take a bolt action into battle I want an Enfield. Either an Enfield or a Mauser action for me. I like Mosins, but they are just too rough. For a combat gun, the SMLE smokes any Mauser derivative. By a fair margin. It's the absolute pinnacle of the fighting turnbolt rifle. It just had the misfortune of not being perfected until the fighting turnbolt rifle was pretty much obsolete. edit this is all really just stuff that's fun for gun guys to talk about on the internet I doubt that if you took any of us and tossed us in a snowbank in northern Canada and said "Don't come back for five years!" it would matter whether the first rifle we managed to scrounge was a lee enfield, m1903, commercial ruger, MG42, despite the bears, wolves and meeses I bet there are a shitload of locals running around up there with mini 14s, 10/22s and even ancient single shot .22s etc Easy to say from the comfort of your livingroom. I get the feeling you've never been exposed to real cold. It makes everything more difficult, to an extent that is hard to convey in words. i'm In Miami now, but I remember... ...dear Sweet Jesus, I remember. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/20/2014 11:57:31 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're going to have to sort out whatever issues there were with the zero on the No. 5, before they do anything like that. Well, determine if the issues with the zero actually exist, and then figure out how to fix it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm for a .308 no4 mkii. Or I'm for cranking up .303 production so there's some to surplus again. I'm happy either way. And they wouldn't even need to design the conversion, since all of the work in that regard has already been done. Something closer to a jungle carbine might be even better considering how far afield these guys might have to carry their rifles. Most excellent point bigstick. Install a more effective fluted flash suppressor. That's it. Use a modern lightweight synthetic stock, too. MPI makes one for Lee-Enfields, so it is doable. Fit it with a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad (the rubber butt plate on the No.5 sucks). Install the centre swivel and use a speed-loop sling. The Brits are the ones that came up with those on the Lee-Enfield (which Cooper would later call the CW sling) and slinging up can help with steadiness quite a bit. They're going to have to sort out whatever issues there were with the zero on the No. 5, before they do anything like that. Well, determine if the issues with the zero actually exist, and then figure out how to fix it. There was a guy who said he was an armourer back when the Lee-Enfield was still in service and he said that the wandering zero problem did not arise until the weapons had fired a lot of rounds in a short period of time like one might see in full-blown conventional combat. The heat combined with the lightening cuts would result in that. Not sure how true that is, but it would certainly explain why I nor anyone I've known to have a No.5 have ever had an issue with a wandering zero. If it is related to the heat, then for the purposes of this rifle, even if the wandering zero is proven to exist, it would not be consequential for practical intents and purposes. Still, if they had to, they could eliminate the cuts on the side walls of the receiver and thus use a No.4 action while keeping the other cuts and with a lightweight synthetic stock they'd still come out ahead. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 12:03:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was a guy who said he was an armourer back when the Lee-Enfield was still in service and he said that the wandering zero problem did not arise until the weapons had fired a lot of rounds in a short period of time like one might see in full-blown conventional combat. The heat combined with the lightening cuts would result in that. Not sure how true that is, but it would certainly explain why I nor anyone I've known to have a No.5 have ever had an issue with a wandering zero. If it is related to the heat, then for the purposes of this rifle, even if the wandering zero is proven to exist, it would not be consequential for practical intents and purposes. Still, if they had to, they could eliminate the cuts on the side walls of the receiver and thus use a No.4 action while keeping the other cuts and with a lightweight synthetic stock they'd still come out ahead. All valid points, and I don't disagree with you. There's also evidence that it was simply a political expedient to go along with adopting the SLR. Regardless, it's something that would need to be sorted out during the adoption/procurement process. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 2:14:54 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All valid points, and I don't disagree with you. There's also evidence that it was simply a political expedient to go along with adopting the SLR. Regardless, it's something that would need to be sorted out during the adoption/procurement process. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
There was a guy who said he was an armourer back when the Lee-Enfield was still in service and he said that the wandering zero problem did not arise until the weapons had fired a lot of rounds in a short period of time like one might see in full-blown conventional combat. The heat combined with the lightening cuts would result in that. Not sure how true that is, but it would certainly explain why I nor anyone I've known to have a No.5 have ever had an issue with a wandering zero. If it is related to the heat, then for the purposes of this rifle, even if the wandering zero is proven to exist, it would not be consequential for practical intents and purposes. Still, if they had to, they could eliminate the cuts on the side walls of the receiver and thus use a No.4 action while keeping the other cuts and with a lightweight synthetic stock they'd still come out ahead. All valid points, and I don't disagree with you. There's also evidence that it was simply a political expedient to go along with adopting the SLR. Regardless, it's something that would need to be sorted out during the adoption/procurement process. Again, with just a No.4 receiver and lightening cuts only on the other components it should be no issue. If there is a wandering zero, the receiver is almost certainly the culprit. If the stock is to blame, well, having a synthetic takes care of that. But I doubt it would be an issue for them given how these rifles are used. The important part is the spirit, which is a rifle that still retains some military features while being light, handy, well-balanced, "friendly," etc. Basically a military rifle that draws a lot conceptually from the scout rifle (which the No.5 of course influenced). The scout rifle concept seems nearly perfect for what these guys do and one can make a rather nice rifle from a .308 Lee-Enfield. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 2:23:49 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the gov't gave me a credit card, tractor trailer and paid me..I could hit every farm house in eastern Canada and Ontario and fill the truck with enfields.. Yup, that would be easy. geez, they should have bought a few crates of those Irish No4's when then were for sale in Canada in the early '90s. (still have mine) |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 2:25:36 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: actually if you look closely you will see 2 mags in his waist band .... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Looks like he is carrying spare magazines. Interesting. https://metronewsca.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/img_4939.jpg actually if you look closely you will see 2 mags in his waist band .... In gloves, its certainly easier to swap mags than fiddle with Enfield clips... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 2:53:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, with just a No.4 receiver and lightening cuts only on the other components it should be no issue. If there is a wandering zero, the receiver is almost certainly the culprit. If the stock is to blame, well, having a synthetic takes care of that. But I doubt it would be an issue for them given how these rifles are used. The important part is the spirit, which is a rifle that still retains some military features while being light, handy, well-balanced, "friendly," etc. Basically a military rifle that draws a lot conceptually from the scout rifle (which the No.5 of course influenced). The scout rifle concept seems nearly perfect for what these guys do and one can make a rather nice rifle from a .308 Lee-Enfield. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There was a guy who said he was an armourer back when the Lee-Enfield was still in service and he said that the wandering zero problem did not arise until the weapons had fired a lot of rounds in a short period of time like one might see in full-blown conventional combat. The heat combined with the lightening cuts would result in that. Not sure how true that is, but it would certainly explain why I nor anyone I've known to have a No.5 have ever had an issue with a wandering zero. If it is related to the heat, then for the purposes of this rifle, even if the wandering zero is proven to exist, it would not be consequential for practical intents and purposes. Still, if they had to, they could eliminate the cuts on the side walls of the receiver and thus use a No.4 action while keeping the other cuts and with a lightweight synthetic stock they'd still come out ahead. All valid points, and I don't disagree with you. There's also evidence that it was simply a political expedient to go along with adopting the SLR. Regardless, it's something that would need to be sorted out during the adoption/procurement process. Again, with just a No.4 receiver and lightening cuts only on the other components it should be no issue. If there is a wandering zero, the receiver is almost certainly the culprit. If the stock is to blame, well, having a synthetic takes care of that. But I doubt it would be an issue for them given how these rifles are used. The important part is the spirit, which is a rifle that still retains some military features while being light, handy, well-balanced, "friendly," etc. Basically a military rifle that draws a lot conceptually from the scout rifle (which the No.5 of course influenced). The scout rifle concept seems nearly perfect for what these guys do and one can make a rather nice rifle from a .308 Lee-Enfield. (Added emphasis) Agreed most strongly. I'd say a .308 Win/7.62mm NATO version of the No.4 Mk.2, but with the improvements mentioned (synthetic stock etc) and a slightly shortened barrel--maybe down to 20" or so--as well as provision for optics without deleting the iron sights, would be a great rifle for the Rangers. That is, according to my limited understanding of their mission and environment. Especially if lightweight (e.g. LaRue, American Defense, et al.) QD, return-to-zero mounts are used, so the option is there when possible and quickly removed when not. Personally, I'd love a scout-styled rifle based on a No.4 Mk.2 in .308 Win, especially after having handled a No.1 Mk.3, a No.4 Mk.1*, and a 2A1. Barrel of 20", 10-round magazine, fed by NATO standard chargers, 3-point sling option, provision for optics, synthetic stock, weight slimmed anywhere it reasonably can be, and decent standard irons--I like the click-adjustable types for the No.4 and No.5, with the "battle sight" ghost ring preserved. But that's just me wishing for things I can't have 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 2:57:00 AM EDT
[#23]
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 3:03:36 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, with just a No.4 receiver and lightening cuts only on the other components it should be no issue. If there is a wandering zero, the receiver is almost certainly the culprit. If the stock is to blame, well, having a synthetic takes care of that. But I doubt it would be an issue for them given how these rifles are used. The important part is the spirit, which is a rifle that still retains some military features while being light, handy, well-balanced, "friendly," etc. Basically a military rifle that draws a lot conceptually from the scout rifle (which the No.5 of course influenced). The scout rifle concept seems nearly perfect for what these guys do and one can make a rather nice rifle from a .308 Lee-Enfield. That's more than likely true, though at the time there was also speculation that it may have resulted from a change in barrel contact due to the amount of unstocked barrel, the lightening cuts on the barrel, the flash hider, the butt pad... the list went on and on, and no one ever conclusively determined the cause (or lack thereof). As I said, I don't disagree with you -- I've shot the piss out of my No. 5 and not encountered the issue -- but I would bet dollars to pesos that the question would have to be answered before a similar design were adopted. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 3:17:28 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
(Added emphasis) Agreed most strongly. I'd say a .308 Win/7.62mm NATO version of the No.4 Mk.2, but with the improvements mentioned (synthetic stock etc) and a slightly shortened barrel--maybe down to 20" or so--as well as provision for optics without deleting the iron sights, would be a great rifle for the Rangers. That is, according to my limited understanding of their mission and environment. Especially if lightweight (e.g. LaRue, American Defense, et al.) QD, return-to-zero mounts are used, so the option is there when possible and quickly removed when not. Personally, I'd love a scout-styled rifle based on a No.4 Mk.2 in .308 Win, especially after having handled a No.1 Mk.3, a No.4 Mk.1*, and a 2A1. Barrel of 20", 10-round magazine, fed by NATO standard chargers, 3-point sling option, provision for optics, synthetic stock, weight slimmed anywhere it reasonably can be, and decent standard irons--I like the click-adjustable types for the No.4 and No.5, with the "battle sight" ghost ring preserved. But that's just me wishing for things I can't have Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
There was a guy who said he was an armourer back when the Lee-Enfield was still in service and he said that the wandering zero problem did not arise until the weapons had fired a lot of rounds in a short period of time like one might see in full-blown conventional combat. The heat combined with the lightening cuts would result in that. Not sure how true that is, but it would certainly explain why I nor anyone I've known to have a No.5 have ever had an issue with a wandering zero. If it is related to the heat, then for the purposes of this rifle, even if the wandering zero is proven to exist, it would not be consequential for practical intents and purposes. Still, if they had to, they could eliminate the cuts on the side walls of the receiver and thus use a No.4 action while keeping the other cuts and with a lightweight synthetic stock they'd still come out ahead. All valid points, and I don't disagree with you. There's also evidence that it was simply a political expedient to go along with adopting the SLR. Regardless, it's something that would need to be sorted out during the adoption/procurement process. Again, with just a No.4 receiver and lightening cuts only on the other components it should be no issue. If there is a wandering zero, the receiver is almost certainly the culprit. If the stock is to blame, well, having a synthetic takes care of that. But I doubt it would be an issue for them given how these rifles are used. The important part is the spirit, which is a rifle that still retains some military features while being light, handy, well-balanced, "friendly," etc. Basically a military rifle that draws a lot conceptually from the scout rifle (which the No.5 of course influenced). The scout rifle concept seems nearly perfect for what these guys do and one can make a rather nice rifle from a .308 Lee-Enfield. (Added emphasis) Agreed most strongly. I'd say a .308 Win/7.62mm NATO version of the No.4 Mk.2, but with the improvements mentioned (synthetic stock etc) and a slightly shortened barrel--maybe down to 20" or so--as well as provision for optics without deleting the iron sights, would be a great rifle for the Rangers. That is, according to my limited understanding of their mission and environment. Especially if lightweight (e.g. LaRue, American Defense, et al.) QD, return-to-zero mounts are used, so the option is there when possible and quickly removed when not. Personally, I'd love a scout-styled rifle based on a No.4 Mk.2 in .308 Win, especially after having handled a No.1 Mk.3, a No.4 Mk.1*, and a 2A1. Barrel of 20", 10-round magazine, fed by NATO standard chargers, 3-point sling option, provision for optics, synthetic stock, weight slimmed anywhere it reasonably can be, and decent standard irons--I like the click-adjustable types for the No.4 and No.5, with the "battle sight" ghost ring preserved. But that's just me wishing for things I can't have You can have it with enough money and patience. A 7.62mm conversion kit for a No.5 is not cheap and you'd have to look long and hard to find a complete one. They even come with a charger guide adapter to use NATO chargers. It would meet your specs if you got a synthetic stock (also not cheap by any means if you want a good one; MPI is all I could find) and added pedestals to the barrel for optics. I thought about all of this a while back. One of many things I wish I could afford. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 3:19:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's more than likely true, though at the time there was also speculation that it may have resulted from a change in barrel contact due to the amount of unstocked barrel, the lightening cuts on the barrel, the flash hider, the butt pad... the list went on and on, and no one ever conclusively determined the cause (or lack thereof). As I said, I don't disagree with you -- I've shot the piss out of my No. 5 and not encountered the issue -- but I would bet dollars to pesos that the question would have to be answered before a similar design were adopted. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Again, with just a No.4 receiver and lightening cuts only on the other components it should be no issue. If there is a wandering zero, the receiver is almost certainly the culprit. If the stock is to blame, well, having a synthetic takes care of that. But I doubt it would be an issue for them given how these rifles are used. The important part is the spirit, which is a rifle that still retains some military features while being light, handy, well-balanced, "friendly," etc. Basically a military rifle that draws a lot conceptually from the scout rifle (which the No.5 of course influenced). The scout rifle concept seems nearly perfect for what these guys do and one can make a rather nice rifle from a .308 Lee-Enfield. That's more than likely true, though at the time there was also speculation that it may have resulted from a change in barrel contact due to the amount of unstocked barrel, the lightening cuts on the barrel, the flash hider, the butt pad... the list went on and on, and no one ever conclusively determined the cause (or lack thereof). As I said, I don't disagree with you -- I've shot the piss out of my No. 5 and not encountered the issue -- but I would bet dollars to pesos that the question would have to be answered before a similar design were adopted. The Lee-Enfield sporters make the barrel an unlikely culprit, same with other rifles using a flash suppressor of that design. The butt plate is just absurd. I'm sure if they thought about a No.5 action it would be evaluated, but with a No.4 action I'm not so sure. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 3:22:42 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Lee-Enfield sporters make the barrel an unlikely culprit, same with other rifles using a flash suppressor of that design. The butt plate is just absurd. I'm sure if they thought about a No.5 action it would be evaluated, but with a No.4 action I'm not so sure. I imagine they just looked at the rifles and said "this part's different, it must be this!" |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 5:50:01 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like it comes with the issue funnel for cleaning too. Neat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is there anyone actually making and selling new Enfields these days? I know IIRC Gibbs and AIA are both defunct. Has anyone else picked up the torch? The closest thing to a new Enfield you can get is on gunbroker. Well, they are new Enfields, still in the wrap. For $900. Link. http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/447371000/447371940/pix320622911.jpg EDIT: I have one of these, out of the wrap and cleaned up. It shoots boat-tailed 174 grain great--unlike all the complaints you hear about used Enfields grouping poorly. Looks like it comes with the issue funnel for cleaning too. Neat. Issue funnel? That's the scabbard for the bayonet if you're referring to the first wrapped bundle directly below the rifle. The second is the bayonet. I still have mine, out of the mummy wrap but unfired. Got the bayo and scabbard separate; the gunshop separated them out but it only cost me $10 to get the bayonet/scabbard. The rifle was $199, purchased in 94 or 95. All sorts of cool stuff came out in the 90's! |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 6:55:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Issue funnel? That's the scabbard for the bayonet if you're referring to the first wrapped bundle directly below the rifle. The second is the bayonet. I still have mine, out of the mummy wrap but unfired. Got the bayo and scabbard separate; the gunshop separated them out but it only cost me $10 to get the bayonet/scabbard. The rifle was $199, purchased in 94 or 95. All sorts of cool stuff came out in the 90's! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is there anyone actually making and selling new Enfields these days? I know IIRC Gibbs and AIA are both defunct. Has anyone else picked up the torch? The closest thing to a new Enfield you can get is on gunbroker. Well, they are new Enfields, still in the wrap. For $900. Link. http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/447371000/447371940/pix320622911.jpg EDIT: I have one of these, out of the wrap and cleaned up. It shoots boat-tailed 174 grain great--unlike all the complaints you hear about used Enfields grouping poorly. Looks like it comes with the issue funnel for cleaning too. Neat. Issue funnel? That's the scabbard for the bayonet if you're referring to the first wrapped bundle directly below the rifle. The second is the bayonet. I still have mine, out of the mummy wrap but unfired. Got the bayo and scabbard separate; the gunshop separated them out but it only cost me $10 to get the bayonet/scabbard. The rifle was $199, purchased in 94 or 95. All sorts of cool stuff came out in the 90's! of the small wrapped items the top one looked like it might be the funnel, sorry, my bad. Enfields used to be issued with a funnel for washing the barrel out with hot water to cleanse it of corrosive ammo residue. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 6:58:38 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last I heard on that matter, there was a bill moving through the Canadian government to allow the Rangers to purchase their Lee-Enfields once they're replaced, rather than destroying them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Are the Canooks selling these to us or what? Last I heard on that matter, there was a bill moving through the Canadian government to allow the Rangers to purchase their Lee-Enfields once they're replaced, rather than destroying them. I hope the Rangers can keep their service rifles.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:04:50 AM EDT
[#31]
308<303 for use against polar bears
Everything I have read on this thread seems TO ME that we are fucking up a proven design just for the sake of accessorizing it. Tapco stock, less effective cartridge, flash suppressor (?). Why ? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:05:26 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
of the small wrapped items the top one looked like it might be the funnel, sorry, my bad. Enfields used to be issued with a funnel for washing the barrel out with hot water to cleanse it of corrosive ammo residue. Absolutely possible I'm wrong on this, but I don't believe they did that with the No. 4s... |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:05:44 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hope the Rangers can keep their service rifles. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Are the Canooks selling these to us or what?
Last I heard on that matter, there was a bill moving through the Canadian government to allow the Rangers to purchase their Lee-Enfields once they're replaced, rather than destroying them. I hope the Rangers can keep their service rifles. Likewise. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:07:05 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
308<303 for use against polar bears Until you get up into extremely heavy-for-caliber bullets (180+), .308 marginally outperforms .303, and has a much better selection of bullets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:11:13 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Until you get up into extremely heavy-for-caliber bullets (180+), .308 marginally outperforms .303, and has a much better selection of bullets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
308<303 for use against polar bears Until you get up into extremely heavy-for-caliber bullets (180+), .308 marginally outperforms .303, and has a much better selection of bullets. If you are using military ball, which I am sure they are, my statement stands. If you are hand loading, my statement stands. Big bear = heavy bullets |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:15:15 AM EDT
[#36]
We could use more "sovereignty patrols" stateside.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:17:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you are using military ball, which I am sure they are, my statement stands. If you are hand loading, my statement stands. Big bear = heavy bullets Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
308<303 for use against polar bears Until you get up into extremely heavy-for-caliber bullets (180+), .308 marginally outperforms .303, and has a much better selection of bullets. If you are using military ball, which I am sure they are, my statement stands. If you are hand loading, my statement stands. Big bear = heavy bullets They're issued ammo, but they are soft points. IIRC, they're loaded with 180gr bullets. ETA: Looks like they're also issued Mk. 8z FMJ as well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:18:10 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We could use more "sovereignty patrols" stateside. Especially on the Southern Border and along our island possessions.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:36:56 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Until you get up into extremely heavy-for-caliber bullets (180+), .308 marginally outperforms .303, and has a much better selection of bullets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
308<303 for use against polar bears Until you get up into extremely heavy-for-caliber bullets (180+), .308 marginally outperforms .303, and has a much better selection of bullets. I'd call it a stretch to say 180 was even heavy for caliber. Perhaps the low end of heavy. 200 is heavy. 240 or 250 is extremely heavy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:38:02 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely possible I'm wrong on this, but I don't believe they did that with the No. 4s... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
of the small wrapped items the top one looked like it might be the funnel, sorry, my bad. Enfields used to be issued with a funnel for washing the barrel out with hot water to cleanse it of corrosive ammo residue. Absolutely possible I'm wrong on this, but I don't believe they did that with the No. 4s... FIFY I use a WW1 dated (1914) armorer's funnel when cleaning my 303 First stage of the post-range clean is boil out the barrel ...comes in handy for other full-bore rifles too in case the ammo is older mil-surp & may be corrosive primed |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:38:42 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd call it a stretch to say 180 was even heavy for caliber. Perhaps the low end of heavy. 200 is heavy. 240 or 250 is extremely heavy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
308<303 for use against polar bears Until you get up into extremely heavy-for-caliber bullets (180+), .308 marginally outperforms .303, and has a much better selection of bullets. I'd call it a stretch to say 180 was even heavy for caliber. Perhaps the low end of heavy. 200 is heavy. 240 or 250 is extremely heavy. Fair, considering 174's standard for .303. I was more thinking along the lines of the fact that there isn't much above 180 readily available in .310 diameter bullets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:39:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FIFY I use a WW1 dated (1914) armorer's funnel when cleaning my 303 First stage of the post-range clean is boil out the barrel ...comes in handy for other full-bore rifles too in case the ammo is older mil-surp & may be corrosive primed Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
of the small wrapped items the top one looked like it might be the funnel, sorry, my bad. Enfields used to be issued with a funnel for washing the barrel out with hot water to cleanse it of corrosive ammo residue. Absolutely possible I'm wrong on this, but I don't believe they did that with the No. 4s... FIFY I use a WW1 dated (1914) armorer's funnel when cleaning my 303 First stage of the post-range clean is boil out the barrel ...comes in handy for other full-bore rifles too in case the ammo is older mil-surp & may be corrosive primed Did they continue issuing them into/after WW2? |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:39:52 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd call it a stretch to say 180 was even heavy for caliber. Perhaps the low end of heavy. 200 is heavy. 240 or 250 is extremely heavy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
308<303 for use against polar bears Until you get up into extremely heavy-for-caliber bullets (180+), .308 marginally outperforms .303, and has a much better selection of bullets. I'd call it a stretch to say 180 was even heavy for caliber. Perhaps the low end of heavy. 200 is heavy. 240 or 250 is extremely heavy. If we are talking about 308, 180 grain bullets are heavy for caliber. If we are talking about .303, that is a normal bullet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:41:57 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd call it a stretch to say 180 was even heavy for caliber. Perhaps the low end of heavy. 200 is heavy. 240 or 250 is extremely heavy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
308<303 for use against polar bears Until you get up into extremely heavy-for-caliber bullets (180+), .308 marginally outperforms .303, and has a much better selection of bullets. I'd call it a stretch to say 180 was even heavy for caliber. Perhaps the low end of heavy. 200 is heavy. 240 or 250 is extremely heavy. The standard African game load used in the turn-of-the century .303 was a 215gr RN soft point. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 7:44:50 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Issue funnel? That's the scabbard for the bayonet if you're referring to the first wrapped bundle directly below the rifle. The second is the bayonet. I still have mine, out of the mummy wrap but unfired. Got the bayo and scabbard separate; the gunshop separated them out but it only cost me $10 to get the bayonet/scabbard. The rifle was $199, purchased in 94 or 95. All sorts of cool stuff came out in the 90's! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is there anyone actually making and selling new Enfields these days? I know IIRC Gibbs and AIA are both defunct. Has anyone else picked up the torch? The closest thing to a new Enfield you can get is on gunbroker. Well, they are new Enfields, still in the wrap. For $900. Link. http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/447371000/447371940/pix320622911.jpg EDIT: I have one of these, out of the wrap and cleaned up. It shoots boat-tailed 174 grain great--unlike all the complaints you hear about used Enfields grouping poorly. Looks like it comes with the issue funnel for cleaning too. Neat. Issue funnel? That's the scabbard for the bayonet if you're referring to the first wrapped bundle directly below the rifle. The second is the bayonet. I still have mine, out of the mummy wrap but unfired. Got the bayo and scabbard separate; the gunshop separated them out but it only cost me $10 to get the bayonet/scabbard. The rifle was $199, purchased in 94 or 95. All sorts of cool stuff came out in the 90's! I picked up an unissued, but out of the mummy wrap Faz Mk2 not long ago. Beautiful rifle! All matching, and not a round through it nor a mark on the wood. Traded it for a service grade H&R CMP Garand. Would have kept it, if it were not for the lack of ammunition. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 8:41:04 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The standard African game load used in the turn-of-the century .303 was a 215gr RN soft point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
308<303 for use against polar bears Until you get up into extremely heavy-for-caliber bullets (180+), .308 marginally outperforms .303, and has a much better selection of bullets. I'd call it a stretch to say 180 was even heavy for caliber. Perhaps the low end of heavy. 200 is heavy. 240 or 250 is extremely heavy. The standard African game load used in the turn-of-the century .303 was a 215gr RN soft point. That was the second generation military load too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 8:48:31 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did they continue issuing them into/after WW2? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
of the small wrapped items the top one looked like it might be the funnel, sorry, my bad. Enfields used to be issued with a funnel for washing the barrel out with hot water to cleanse it of corrosive ammo residue. Absolutely possible I'm wrong on this, but I don't believe they did that with the No. 4s... FIFY I use a WW1 dated (1914) armorer's funnel when cleaning my 303 First stage of the post-range clean is boil out the barrel ...comes in handy for other full-bore rifles too in case the ammo is older mil-surp & may be corrosive primed Did they continue issuing them into/after WW2? Pulled up a picture of the funnel it is much larger than I remember........much larger. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 8:57:11 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did they continue issuing them into/after WW2? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
of the small wrapped items the top one looked like it might be the funnel, sorry, my bad. Enfields used to be issued with a funnel for washing the barrel out with hot water to cleanse it of corrosive ammo residue. Absolutely possible I'm wrong on this, but I don't believe they did that with the No. 4s... FIFY I use a WW1 dated (1914) armorer's funnel when cleaning my 303 First stage of the post-range clean is boil out the barrel ...comes in handy for other full-bore rifles too in case the ammo is older mil-surp & may be corrosive primed Did they continue issuing them into/after WW2? The ammo still had corrosive primers until the mid-50s - so YES they were still used. I may be able to find info in some of my manuals WW2 dated manuals. IIRC I've also seen them mentioned in the post-WW2 publications...but mainly aimed at depot armorer usage. |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 8:57:55 AM EDT
[#49]
I know we're talking "aboot" the Canadian Rangers, eh. But here is a recruitment video of the Danish Sirius Patrol.
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 10/21/2014 9:07:02 AM EDT
[#50]
if aint broke dont fix it. They work so why bother even changing.
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
