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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:20:29 AM EDT
[#1]
I LOL'd at this
Edit; Page 12.  These are my Putin glasses
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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:23:15 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:27:02 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did I miss something? I knew we'd scrambled interceptors, because I heard the sonic booms as they went to go shoot it down. I thought the bird was down in pieces before they got there. Source for the actual shoot down? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They didn't fly it into the field, we shot them down and the plane crashed into the field. Did I miss something? I knew we'd scrambled interceptors, because I heard the sonic booms as they went to go shoot it down. I thought the bird was down in pieces before they got there. Source for the actual shoot down? |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:32:01 AM EDT
[#4]
don't forget about them putting the radiation in little retarded kids' gonads
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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:33:37 AM EDT
[#5]
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I've seen fiirst hand what Bosnians are capable of, so color me unimpressed. Like what? Have you seen what Americans are capable of? I see every day. Just turn on the news for one day. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:42:49 AM EDT
[#6]
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Yes. The "TRUTH" behind 9/11. lol. Oh and, steel doesn't melt, snukes were used to bring down the WTC, and chemtrails are poisoning your mind, duuuude. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They didn't fly it into the field, we shot them down and the plane crashed into the field. Did I miss something? I knew we'd scrambled interceptors, because I heard the sonic booms as they went to go shoot it down. I thought the bird was down in pieces before they got there. Source for the actual shoot down? It's not really a stretch to believe the U.S. would shoot down a hi-jacked plane en-route to D.C. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:43:39 AM EDT
[#7]
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It's not really a stretch to believe the U.S. would shoot down a hi-jacked plane en-route to D.C. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They didn't fly it into the field, we shot them down and the plane crashed into the field. Did I miss something? I knew we'd scrambled interceptors, because I heard the sonic booms as they went to go shoot it down. I thought the bird was down in pieces before they got there. Source for the actual shoot down? It's not really a stretch to believe the U.S. would shoot down a hi-jacked plane en-route to D.C. But it is a stretch to believe it happened despite no evidence in support of that claim. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:44:19 AM EDT
[#8]
OP sounds like a good dude. Now, if he'd only get right with Christ...
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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:44:49 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not really a stretch to believe the U.S. would shoot down a hi-jacked plane en-route to D.C. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They didn't fly it into the field, we shot them down and the plane crashed into the field. Did I miss something? I knew we'd scrambled interceptors, because I heard the sonic booms as they went to go shoot it down. I thought the bird was down in pieces before they got there. Source for the actual shoot down? It's not really a stretch to believe the U.S. would shoot down a hi-jacked plane en-route to D.C. Nope, but it is a stretch to think that the AF would cover up the operation in light of what was going on. I'm sure they were planning to shoot it down. They had no other choice. I just thought they were too late. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:48:47 AM EDT
[#10]
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Like what? Have you seen what Americans are capable of? I see every day. Just turn on the news for one day. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've seen fiirst hand what Bosnians are capable of, so color me unimpressed. Like what? Have you seen what Americans are capable of? I see every day. Just turn on the news for one day. I have, too. Had Bosnian neighbors. Very hard workers, took great care of their place and loved their vehicles. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 6:49:26 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nope, but it is a stretch to think that the AF would cover up the operation in light of what was going on. I'm sure they were planning to shoot it down. They had no other choice. I just thought they were too late. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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They didn't fly it into the field, we shot them down and the plane crashed into the field. Did I miss something? I knew we'd scrambled interceptors, because I heard the sonic booms as they went to go shoot it down. I thought the bird was down in pieces before they got there. Source for the actual shoot down? It's not really a stretch to believe the U.S. would shoot down a hi-jacked plane en-route to D.C. Nope, but it is a stretch to think that the AF would cover up the operation in light of what was going on. I'm sure they were planning to shoot it down. They had no other choice. I just thought they were too late. The events unfold the same either way. Terrorists hi-jack the plane, plane ends up destroyed in a field. The difference is in one situation, the passengers sacrifice their lives and bring down the plane, making them heroes. In the other, the AF shoots down the plane and kills 40 innocent civilians. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 7:31:07 AM EDT
[#12]
A deceased Infidel's perspective on Jihad:
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Posted: 8/29/2014 7:44:51 AM EDT
[#13]
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I bought two sets actually. It's a woman that makes these. A cancer survivor, that carves it by hand, then oven heat treats them. Excellent quality, and beautifully done. And you're not supporting some outsourcing big corporation. Link Thanks...and don't worry i'm worse than a radical...im Athiest 
Be careful. It could be a trap to turn you into a radical though... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It doesn't help anyone when you're trying to convince them that I am out to harm them secretely. Especially not me. When you're receiving malicious emails and messages, it does make me understand why not many Muslims come openly and share their thoughts in this matter. This bible thumping and quran reading is all well and fine, but seriously where did u get the grips for that SR1911? We needsta know. I bought two sets actually. It's a woman that makes these. A cancer survivor, that carves it by hand, then oven heat treats them. Excellent quality, and beautifully done. And you're not supporting some outsourcing big corporation. Link Thanks...and don't worry i'm worse than a radical...im Athiest
Be careful. It could be a trap to turn you into a radical though... |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 8:11:37 AM EDT
[#14]
So I see there are three schools of thought on this issue:
1. Don't care. 2. Fuck 'em, they're Muslim. 3. I accept them as just regular people until they cut my throat. Does that summarize this thread? |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 8:18:14 AM EDT
[#15]
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So I see there are three schools of thought on this issue: 1. Don't care. 2. Fuck 'em, they're Muslim. 3. I accept them as just regular people until they cut my throat. Does that summarize this thread? You should write for Cliff's Notes.
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Posted: 8/29/2014 8:25:55 AM EDT
[#16]
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Mecca and Medina are controlled by the Saudis. They are also tied to the finance of Al queda, Osama Bin Loden, the 9/11 hijackers, etc. they are the chief leaders of the Sunni sect. Many of our slodiers are being killed by IEDs out of Iran, who also furnishes the rockets to Hmas. They are also the center for the Shia sect. Those two Mulim theocracies are the centers of Muslim extremists. Take them out and Muslim extremism will be set back tremendously. Anyone Remembering the last two decades should see that clearly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's because during WWII, the governments of both Germany and Japan, who spoke on behalf of and represented their collective peoples, declared war on us, thereby making those nation states / peoples our enemies. There is no single collective muslim authority or government that can claim to speak on behalf of all muslims. Therefore, there is no definitive muslim authority which can declare war on the west on behalf of all muslims. There are over 1 billion muslims, and they span across many nations. There are also multiple sects, each with their own interpretation of what they believe the Koran says and how to practice their religion. That is why you can't say the enemy is Islam or Muslims in general, because muslims are not some monolithic entity. The fact that Al-Queda, ISIS or other terrorist organizations have declared war on us is irrelevant because they cannot claim to speak for or represent even a fraction of Muslims worldwide. One would assume that this would be obvious to anyone with half a brain.  Mecca and Medina are controlled by the Saudis. They are also tied to the finance of Al queda, Osama Bin Loden, the 9/11 hijackers, etc. they are the chief leaders of the Sunni sect. Many of our slodiers are being killed by IEDs out of Iran, who also furnishes the rockets to Hmas. They are also the center for the Shia sect. Those two Mulim theocracies are the centers of Muslim extremists. Take them out and Muslim extremism will be set back tremendously. Anyone Remembering the last two decades should see that clearly. Lol. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 8:29:13 AM EDT
[#17]
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The Koran is pretty clear on the topic. Be a Muslim, convert or be killed. While I appreciate the OP's attempt I also have to consider 2 things. One is that he is not a practicing Muslim or two he is a "good" Muslim and is using Taqiyya to confuse and obfuscate. Clearly, by reading the responses, Taqiyya is working to some extent. Same tactic that CAIR uses. What must first be understood is that there is no such thing as "radical" Islam. There is only Islam and while most Muslims don't practice Islam fully those that do are a threat to the Western way of life. Mohammad did preach tolerance in the beginning and Islam almost was extinguished as a religion. So he changed tactics and preached violence, which is where we're at today. What must be completely understood is that AQ, ISIS, etc...aren't "radicals". They are simply Muslims who are practicing the word of Allah as written by Mohammed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Everyone complains that no Muslims stand up to denounce terrorism yet when one shows up and does just that, we denounce their religion anyway. "They are lying trying to trick us, they secretly support them". 
The Koran is pretty clear on the topic. Be a Muslim, convert or be killed. While I appreciate the OP's attempt I also have to consider 2 things. One is that he is not a practicing Muslim or two he is a "good" Muslim and is using Taqiyya to confuse and obfuscate. Clearly, by reading the responses, Taqiyya is working to some extent. Same tactic that CAIR uses. What must first be understood is that there is no such thing as "radical" Islam. There is only Islam and while most Muslims don't practice Islam fully those that do are a threat to the Western way of life. Mohammad did preach tolerance in the beginning and Islam almost was extinguished as a religion. So he changed tactics and preached violence, which is where we're at today. What must be completely understood is that AQ, ISIS, etc...aren't "radicals". They are simply Muslims who are practicing the word of Allah as written by Mohammed. “And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.” Sahih Muslim (19:4294) - "When you meet your enemies who are polytheists (which includes Christians), invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withhold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them ... If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them" Osama bin Laden echoes this order from his prophet: "Does Islam, or does it not, force people by the power of the sword to submit to its authority corporeally if not spiritually? Yes. There are only three choices in Islam … . Either submit, or live under the suzerainty of Islam, or die.” (source: The al-Qaeda Reader p. 19-20)
You are playing into ISIS's narrative. Congrats on giving aid and confront to the enemy by supporting their IO campaign. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 8:34:50 AM EDT
[#18]
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I bought two sets actually. It's a woman that makes these. A cancer survivor, that carves it by hand, then oven heat treats them. Excellent quality, and beautifully done. And you're not supporting some outsourcing big corporation. Link Be careful. It could be a trap to turn you into a radical though... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It doesn't help anyone when you're trying to convince them that I am out to harm them secretely. Especially not me. When you're receiving malicious emails and messages, it does make me understand why not many Muslims come openly and share their thoughts in this matter. This bible thumping and quran reading is all well and fine, but seriously where did u get the grips for that SR1911? We needsta know. I bought two sets actually. It's a woman that makes these. A cancer survivor, that carves it by hand, then oven heat treats them. Excellent quality, and beautifully done. And you're not supporting some outsourcing big corporation. Link Be careful. It could be a trap to turn you into a radical though... Son of bitch shes sold out, can I buy yours?
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Posted: 8/29/2014 8:36:54 AM EDT
[#19]
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Again, it makes no sense to you because you're ignorant on the topic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yep, which is why I'd like to see Islam make to to where Christianity is today: Bitching and moaning about the gays and heretics instead of killing them or destroying "pagan" symbols. I don't understand why anyone would try to convince a Muslim that 'you are practicing your religion wrong' when that muslim comes out and denounces terrorists. Makes no sense. Again, it makes no sense to you because you're ignorant on the topic. Actually, your bigotry is what doesn't make sense to him, and it's not his ignorance that is the problem. It's yours. I can't imagine the amount of arrogance it takes to tell someone they are practicing their religion wrong, and that you have a better understanding their religion than they do. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 8:46:14 AM EDT
[#20]
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The fact of the matter is that I do posses a certain level of understanding on the topic. If you're a Muslim, as you say you are, then you know exactly what I'm talking about. I don't mean to demean you but this discussion has to take place. I was Qatar 3 months after 9/11 and was told how they cheered when the buildings went down. I know what the Saudis donate. I know exactly how Zakat is used as well as the Red Crescent. I know full well what CAIR is. etc...etc...so yes, I do have a level of expertise on the topic. I've spent about 5 years living and working in the AOR. In fact I spent some time in your neck of the woods as well. That work continues to this day. My statement of "there isn't such a things a radical Islam, there's only Islam" came from an Islamic Scholar that I worked with. He patiently explained to me the obligations of the Koran. I understand the 950 levels of Jihad. I understand Taqiyya. I have studied this problem for a while both as an Operator and a planner. So while I enter into these discussion on ARFCOM I do so fully understanding that 99% of the posters have a "day job" and vicariously live their "commando" lives here. Their level of understanding is emotional and normally uneducated. I do appreciate that you're not out killing non-believers but I also know that you understand what the Koran says on that topic and again, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Aren't you an expert. 
So, basically, according to you, 90% of Muslims are not "practicing" because we're not trying to kill you, correct? Now, how would you like to hear that all my Christian friends accept me for who I am, and they accept my faith. They're still here, btw. I am practicing, but sorry it's not what you portrait it to be. The fact of the matter is that I do posses a certain level of understanding on the topic. If you're a Muslim, as you say you are, then you know exactly what I'm talking about. I don't mean to demean you but this discussion has to take place. I was Qatar 3 months after 9/11 and was told how they cheered when the buildings went down. I know what the Saudis donate. I know exactly how Zakat is used as well as the Red Crescent. I know full well what CAIR is. etc...etc...so yes, I do have a level of expertise on the topic. I've spent about 5 years living and working in the AOR. In fact I spent some time in your neck of the woods as well. That work continues to this day. My statement of "there isn't such a things a radical Islam, there's only Islam" came from an Islamic Scholar that I worked with. He patiently explained to me the obligations of the Koran. I understand the 950 levels of Jihad. I understand Taqiyya. I have studied this problem for a while both as an Operator and a planner. So while I enter into these discussion on ARFCOM I do so fully understanding that 99% of the posters have a "day job" and vicariously live their "commando" lives here. Their level of understanding is emotional and normally uneducated. I do appreciate that you're not out killing non-believers but I also know that you understand what the Koran says on that topic and again, you know exactly what I'm talking about. What you just said shows your ignorance. You say you got your understanding of Islam from one "Islamic scholar". I hate to break this to you, but there is no agreement among "Islamic scholars"on how to interpret the Koran because there is no central authority in Islam to say what is the correct interpretation. Anyone can proclaim themselves an Imam or an Islamic scholar in the Muslim world, and it is part of the problem of why radicalism exists in the Muslim world today. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 8:49:57 AM EDT
[#21]
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You can discuss it all you want. It will not change the fact that a whole religion or race will follow a small percentage of that group into war. They may not want to individually but they will. I do not understand the paranoia and aggression practiced by so many of those from the Middle East but there is no middle path with them. They do not argue, they go to war. They will follow a corrupt and incorrect theocracy no matter what. There is no winning with them except for killing them. They will lie to you very convincingly. They consider that ability a social necessity. They owe an "infidel" nothing morally and will try to profit from them if they can, then cut their head off because they are an infidel. I do not know if the race made the religion or the religion made the race but it is ignorant to trust where they say their loyalties are when battle lines are drawn. We ARE in a war, make no mistke. This is just trolling right? No one can be this ignorant without it being willful. 
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Posted: 8/29/2014 9:48:17 AM EDT
[#22]
It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists.
That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 9:48:47 AM EDT
[#23]
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This is just trolling right? No one can be this ignorant without it being willful. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You can discuss it all you want. It will not change the fact that a whole religion or race will follow a small percentage of that group into war. They may not want to individually but they will. I do not understand the paranoia and aggression practiced by so many of those from the Middle East but there is no middle path with them. They do not argue, they go to war. They will follow a corrupt and incorrect theocracy no matter what. There is no winning with them except for killing them. They will lie to you very convincingly. They consider that ability a social necessity. They owe an "infidel" nothing morally and will try to profit from them if they can, then cut their head off because they are an infidel. I do not know if the race made the religion or the religion made the race but it is ignorant to trust where they say their loyalties are when battle lines are drawn. We ARE in a war, make no mistke. This is just trolling right? No one can be this ignorant without it being willful. No, it is from my experience with multiple cultures from the Middle East. You must be from there if you take offense at it. It is the truth as I see it, none the less, like it or not. Here is an example: http://www.tpnn.com/2014/08/29/video-this-altercation-in-the-uk-should-act-as-a-wake-up-call-about-the-islamic-threat-in-america/ |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 9:56:46 AM EDT
[#24]
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 9:59:35 AM EDT
[#25]
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I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:01:46 AM EDT
[#26]
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Actually, your bigotry is what doesn't make sense to him, and it's not his ignorance that is the problem. It's yours. I can't imagine the amount of arrogance it takes to tell someone they are practicing their religion wrong, and that you have a better understanding their religion than they do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yep, which is why I'd like to see Islam make to to where Christianity is today: Bitching and moaning about the gays and heretics instead of killing them or destroying "pagan" symbols. I don't understand why anyone would try to convince a Muslim that 'you are practicing your religion wrong' when that muslim comes out and denounces terrorists. Makes no sense. Again, it makes no sense to you because you're ignorant on the topic. Actually, your bigotry is what doesn't make sense to him, and it's not his ignorance that is the problem. It's yours. I can't imagine the amount of arrogance it takes to tell someone they are practicing their religion wrong, and that you have a better understanding their religion than they do. Do not confuse arrogance with what may actually just be knowledge that you are uncomfortable with someone else having and using. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:09:00 AM EDT
[#27]
He's lying to all of you ! It says he can in the Koran!
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:11:20 AM EDT
[#28]
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He's lying to all of you ! It says he can in the Koran! Ohh noooooooooo so when I go get a kebab for lunch they'll overcharge me!!! They have to. Ohhhhh noooooooooo |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:12:32 AM EDT
[#29]
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I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source. 
Did you read your own link? |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:19:51 AM EDT
[#30]
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I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source. http://answering-islam.org/Index/L/lying.html Unless my or my families life is in danger, it is required for me not to hide my faith. Taqiyya is a practice amongst Shia. Taqiyya is not part of my faith. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:21:54 AM EDT
[#31]
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He's lying to all of you ! It says he can in the Koran! No, he probably isn't. I think it is more of a cultural thing. Most Arabs are Shi'ites and are tremendously good at being deceitful if they need to be to protect their interests. But the Saudi royals are Sunni and they are tremendously deceitful and have been for generations. But my belief is that Muslims will align with Muslims, right or wrong, if the extremists push things to all out religious war. And they are being totally merciless in doing it. ETA Obama was raised in the Wahhabi schools. He is an extremely good liar.... |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:22:15 AM EDT
[#32]
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Did you read your own link? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source.
Did you read your own link? Did you? In the Sunni view, denying your faith under duress is "only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory" means that it is NOT forbidden. ...and that's the frigging 2nd sentence in that section! How much of it did you read, genius?
There is also no definition (or mention) of who these "people of the Books" are on that page. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:25:58 AM EDT
[#33]
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Did you? In the Sunni view, denying your faith under duress is "only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory" means that it is NOT forbidden. ...and that's the frigging 2nd sentence in that section! How much of it did you read, genius?
There is also no definition (or mention) of who these "people of the Books" are on that page. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source.
Did you read your own link? Did you? In the Sunni view, denying your faith under duress is "only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory" means that it is NOT forbidden. ...and that's the frigging 2nd sentence in that section! How much of it did you read, genius?
There is also no definition (or mention) of who these "people of the Books" are on that page. If you don't know who they are, maybe you should be paying more attention to the Muslim telling you about his sect's faith than a Wiki page... If you do know who they are, you should still probably be paying more attention to the Muslim than to Wiki... |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:26:26 AM EDT
[#34]
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http://answering-islam.org/Index/L/lying.html Unless my or my families life is in danger, it is required for me not to hide my faith. Taqiyya is a practice amongst Shia. Taqiyya is not part of my faith. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source. http://answering-islam.org/Index/L/lying.html Unless my or my families life is in danger, it is required for me not to hide my faith. Taqiyya is a practice amongst Shia. Taqiyya is not part of my faith. Interesting. More information is provided by William Muir's "Life of Mahomet", Volume I, footnote 88: The common Moslem belief is that it is allowable to tell a falsehood on four occasions: 1st, to save one's life; 2nd, to effect a peace or reconciliation; 3rd, to persuade a woman; 4th, on the occasion of a journey or expedition. To effect a peace or reconciliation The second is directly sanctioned by the following tradition:- "That person is not a liar who makes peace between two people, and speaks good words to do away their quarrel, although they should be lies. Mishcat, vol ii. p.427. How is this functionally different than Taqiyya in any way other than how it's explained/justified/excused? ETA: Also, there does not seem to be any reason NOT to extend the 1st point to a freedom to lie to anyone whom you suspect may put your life in danger at any point in the future (ie, all infidels). |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:29:13 AM EDT
[#35]
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If you don't know who they are, maybe you should be paying more attention to the Muslim telling you about his sect's faith than a Wiki page... If you do know who they are, you should still probably be paying more attention to the Muslim than to Wiki... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source.
Did you read your own link? Did you? In the Sunni view, denying your faith under duress is "only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory" means that it is NOT forbidden. ...and that's the frigging 2nd sentence in that section! How much of it did you read, genius?
There is also no definition (or mention) of who these "people of the Books" are on that page. If you don't know who they are, maybe you should be paying more attention to the Muslim telling you about his sect's faith than a Wiki page... If you do know who they are, you should still probably be paying more attention to the Muslim than to Wiki... Are you trying to lecture me, or are you merely making statements of the obvious? |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:30:15 AM EDT
[#36]
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Interesting. More information is provided by William Muir's "Life of Mahomet", Volume I, footnote 88: The common Moslem belief is that it is allowable to tell a falsehood on four occasions: 1st, to save one's life; 2nd, to effect a peace or reconciliation; 3rd, to persuade a woman; 4th, on the occasion of a journey or expedition. To effect a peace or reconciliation The second is directly sanctioned by the following tradition:- "That person is not a liar who makes peace between two people, and speaks good words to do away their quarrel, although they should be lies. Mishcat, vol ii. p.427. How is this functionally different than Taqiyya in any way other than how it's explained? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source. http://answering-islam.org/Index/L/lying.html Unless my or my families life is in danger, it is required for me not to hide my faith. Taqiyya is a practice amongst Shia. Taqiyya is not part of my faith. Interesting. More information is provided by William Muir's "Life of Mahomet", Volume I, footnote 88: The common Moslem belief is that it is allowable to tell a falsehood on four occasions: 1st, to save one's life; 2nd, to effect a peace or reconciliation; 3rd, to persuade a woman; 4th, on the occasion of a journey or expedition. To effect a peace or reconciliation The second is directly sanctioned by the following tradition:- "That person is not a liar who makes peace between two people, and speaks good words to do away their quarrel, although they should be lies. Mishcat, vol ii. p.427. How is this functionally different than Taqiyya in any way other than how it's explained? holy shit dude, just give it up.
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:33:46 AM EDT
[#37]
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holy shit dude, just give it up.
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I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source. http://answering-islam.org/Index/L/lying.html Unless my or my families life is in danger, it is required for me not to hide my faith. Taqiyya is a practice amongst Shia. Taqiyya is not part of my faith. Interesting. More information is provided by William Muir's "Life of Mahomet", Volume I, footnote 88: The common Moslem belief is that it is allowable to tell a falsehood on four occasions: 1st, to save one's life; 2nd, to effect a peace or reconciliation; 3rd, to persuade a woman; 4th, on the occasion of a journey or expedition. To effect a peace or reconciliation The second is directly sanctioned by the following tradition:- "That person is not a liar who makes peace between two people, and speaks good words to do away their quarrel, although they should be lies. Mishcat, vol ii. p.427. How is this functionally different than Taqiyya in any way other than how it's explained? holy shit dude, just give it up.
I'll leave this thread when I see fit, same as you. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:35:43 AM EDT
[#38]
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Did you? In the Sunni view, denying your faith under duress is "only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory" means that it is NOT forbidden. ...and that's the frigging 2nd sentence in that section! How much of it did you read, genius?
There is also no definition (or mention) of who these "people of the Books" are on that page. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source.
Did you read your own link? Did you? In the Sunni view, denying your faith under duress is "only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory" means that it is NOT forbidden. ...and that's the frigging 2nd sentence in that section! How much of it did you read, genius?
There is also no definition (or mention) of who these "people of the Books" are on that page. Again. Lying and deception are not permissible unless under severe threat of one's life. If you want to learn it, understand it, read the Quran. Not some links on the net. I'm not going to debate you on theological grounds here, because frankly, anything I say you will try to turn around. I was taught to respect people of the Books and it's prophets, Ibrahim, Jesus, and Muhammad. Next thing I know, I'll be asked if I'm lying about the truth. Or telling the truth about lies. [%| |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:37:53 AM EDT
[#39]
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I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. How about to an unapologetic atheist like me? |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:44:17 AM EDT
[#40]
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How about to an unapologetic atheist like me? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. How about to an unapologetic atheist like me? If you believe that this life is all that has to offer, I hope you better make the best of it, and live life everyday like it's your last. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:48:04 AM EDT
[#41]
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If you believe that this life is all that has to offer, I hope you better make the best of it, and live life everyday like it's your last. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. How about to an unapologetic atheist like me? If you believe that this life is all that has to offer, I hope you better make the best of it, and live life everyday like it's your last. That sounds like deception to me! Can't be that he's a nice guy! Nope nope nope he has to be lying because wiki says so. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:53:20 AM EDT
[#42]
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That sounds like deception to me! Can't be that he's a nice guy! Nope nope nope he has to be lying because wiki says so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It's very difficult to believe any Muslim knowing that Taqiyya exists. That said, I hope you are telling the truth and I support you if you are. I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. How about to an unapologetic atheist like me? If you believe that this life is all that has to offer, I hope you better make the best of it, and live life everyday like it's your last. That sounds like deception to me! Can't be that he's a nice guy! Nope nope nope he has to be lying because wiki says so. Well, he DID tell me it was "forbidden to lie and deceive," and then I cite a link HE provided to me that proves that it is NOT forbidden...AND it just happens to coincide with what the wiki link says about Sunnis specifically. He's either being deceptive or just spouting off weak/incomplete knowledge of his claimed religion. Not really a third option here. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:57:19 AM EDT
[#43]
Based upon your experience,what percentage of the Muslim faith is radical?Be honest.
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Posted: 8/29/2014 10:59:30 AM EDT
[#44]
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Again. Lying and deception are not permissible unless under severe threat of one's life. If you want to learn it, understand it, read the Quran. Not some links on the net. I'm not going to debate you on theological grounds here, because frankly, anything I say you will try to turn around. I was taught to respect people of the Books and it's prophets, Ibrahim, Jesus, and Muhammad. Next thing I know, I'll be asked if I'm lying about the truth. Or telling the truth about lies. [%| Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm Sunni. It is forbidden to lie and deceive, especially to people of the Books. I would very much like to see where this is declared and documented. Please provide a source.
Did you read your own link? Did you? In the Sunni view, denying your faith under duress is "only at most permitted and not under all circumstances obligatory" means that it is NOT forbidden. ...and that's the frigging 2nd sentence in that section! How much of it did you read, genius?
There is also no definition (or mention) of who these "people of the Books" are on that page. Again. Lying and deception are not permissible unless under severe threat of one's life. If you want to learn it, understand it, read the Quran. Not some links on the net. I'm not going to debate you on theological grounds here, because frankly, anything I say you will try to turn around. I was taught to respect people of the Books and it's prophets, Ibrahim, Jesus, and Muhammad. Next thing I know, I'll be asked if I'm lying about the truth. Or telling the truth about lies. [%| Then you can not tell someone that lying and deception is forbidden, because you just told me an instance where it's okay....which, again, happens to be an instance that can be extended to include justification for lying to any infidel at any time if you decide they are a "severe" threat to you. No need, you already did that in the stuff I just highlighted.
Your excuses/explanations thus far make no such questions necessary.
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Posted: 8/29/2014 11:03:01 AM EDT
[#45]
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Based upon your experience,what percentage of the Muslim faith is radical?Be honest. About 30%. I'd say probably around 1.5% are extremely radical and would most likely join forces with groups like ISIS or Taliban. I would also say Pakistan is not your ally. Edit: speaking of population |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 11:11:49 AM EDT
[#46]
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Then you can not tell someone that lying and deception is forbidden, because you just told me an instance where it's okay....which, again, happens to be an instance that can be extended to include justification for lying to any infidel at any time if you decide they are a "severe" threat to you. No need, you already did that in the stuff I just highlighted.
Your excuses/explanations thus far make no such questions necessary. You're not really a threat to me, lol. Maybe, you'd like to think that, but you're very, very, very insignificant to me. Having said that, I'm done here with you. And as we say in Bosnian... Marš u picku materinu. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 11:43:10 AM EDT
[#47]
If you don't know who they are, maybe you should be paying more attention to the Muslim telling you about his sect's faith than a Wiki page...
If you do know who they are, you should still probably be paying more attention to the Muslim than to Wiki... Quote HistoryRead My Lips: No New Taxes. Quote HistoryRead My Lips: No New Taxes. If you like your insurance plan, you can keep it. These guys are just so LIKEABLE. They would never lie... That's the 'funny' thing about the Koran. First it says Black. Then it says White. So, they get to do the same thing as our politicians. Tell people whatever the person wants to hear. I'll pay attention to world history, thanks. |
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Posted: 8/29/2014 11:46:34 AM EDT
[#48]
OP, I want to apologize for the postures I took with you before. I was unnecessarily rude and direct, neither of which you deserved. I saw first hand what Muslims endured in BH, having worked in Banja Luka and Sarajevo in the mid '90s and as I re-read my posts I realized how very rude I sounded. Again, my apoligies.
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Posted: 8/29/2014 11:48:15 AM EDT
[#49]
The peaceful majority mean nothing. Someone post that video of the Indian lady tearing up the "peaceful Muslim " girl.
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Posted: 8/29/2014 11:50:52 AM EDT
[#50]
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About 30%. I'd say probably around 1.5% are extremely radical and would most likely join forces with groups like ISIS or Taliban. I would also say Pakistan is not your ally. Edit: speaking of population Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Based upon your experience,what percentage of the Muslim faith is radical?Be honest. About 30%. I'd say probably around 1.5% are extremely radical and would most likely join forces with groups like ISIS or Taliban. I would also say Pakistan is not your ally. Edit: speaking of population That's shockingly high.Where does the propensity for violence come from,false interpritation?Product of a bad environment?Or is it the letter of the law within the faith?Every other religon has it's fringe,but not like this. |
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