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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:05:38 PM EDT
A co-worker told me this today. A recent police shooting here in Phoenix has sparked a huge local debate about the use of force on people with mental illness. Phoenix Police shot and killed a 50 y/o woman who surprised police at her front door with a claw hammer last week, while serving a court ordered mental health evaluation.
One of my co-workers is pretty liberal and asked me this question. I laughed and he was like, "for real, why can't cops do that?" I just looked him like  . Really? I didn't know what to say to him, I thought the answer to that would be plainly evident, but I guess not.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:06:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Gas for the win aka Russia
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:07:13 PM EDT
[#2]
They used to. They were called Tasers.
People complained, so now they dont use them much anymore. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:07:19 PM EDT
[#3]
That would work great...until it doesn't....
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:07:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Cops should use PCP darts and bath salt gas grenades on people.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:08:15 PM EDT
[#5]
I had a teacher say "why can't the cops just shoot guns out of criminals hands?"
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:08:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
A co-worker told me this today. A recent police shooting here in Phoenix has sparked a huge local debate about the use of force on people with mental illness. Phoenix Police shot and killed a 50 y/o woman who surprised police at her front door with a claw hammer last week, while serving a court ordered mental health evaluation. One of my co-workers is pretty liberal and asked me this question. I laughed and he was like, "for real, why can't cops do that?" I just looked him like . Really? I didn't know what to say to him, I thought the answer to that would be plainly evident, but I guess not.they think everything works like it does in video games. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:08:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cops should use PCP darts and bath salt gas grenades on people. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:09:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That would work great...until it doesn't.... Until someone OD's and dies. Or someone gets a drug habit because of it and sues the city (or state or federal) for $500 million dollars. 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:09:58 PM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:10:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a teacher say "why can't the cops just shoot guns out of criminals hands?" 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:10:33 PM EDT
[#11]
It can be effective if utilized properly.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:11:39 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:11:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Because everyone knows tranquilizers incapacitate people instantly.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:12:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Tell them that the amount of dugs needed to drop someone is seconds, is also enough to likely kill someone. Real life aint the movies.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:13:33 PM EDT
[#15]
Because there isn't a tranquilizer that works the same for all people, what works for perp a could kill perp b. Then it would be impossible for police to adjust the dosage for the size of the person they were trying to arrest, you would need more for a 300 pounder than you would for a 150 pounder.
Then take into account the fact that they aren't instantaneous, a tranquilizer can take a long time to go into effect, we're talking 5 minutes or longer. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:13:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Put your co-worker at that door with a dart gun. Then let's see what he has to say about use of force.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:14:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Wonder if she is related to the lady that got upset that we didnt carry dog biscuits on us to deal with vicious dogs.....
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:14:48 PM EDT
[#18]
AZ cops carried those tazer dart guns (whatever they are called) When I lived there. I mean, they could use those if the person only has a hammer.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:20:53 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:22:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Did you remind your coworker to actually breath? Lack of oxygen must have been taking it's toll on him.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:24:43 PM EDT
[#21]
When they tranq an animal, there's a vet standing by with the correct antagonist for the drug. The tranquilizer is a drug overdose. If nothing is done, the animal will die. The antagonist counteracts the drug in the body. It will be administered within a minute or so after the animal loses consciousness. Some of them die anyway.
The weapon is unwieldy. It's a clunky rifle-thing. It's a single shot weapon. The drugs may take a minute to work. If the person has a deadly weapon, he can still use it. Bullets don't generally work instantly, either, but you have multiple shots. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:28:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Put your co-worker at that door with a dart gun. Then let's see what he has to say about use of force. Pretty sure I could handle a 50 year old woman with a hammer. Would a civilian be justified shooting an old lady with a hammer in her hand? |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:31:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure I could handle a 50 year old woman with a hammer. Would a civilian be justified shooting an old lady with a hammer in her hand? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Put your co-worker at that door with a dart gun. Then let's see what he has to say about use of force. Pretty sure I could handle a 50 year old woman with a hammer. Would a civilian be justified shooting an old lady with a hammer in her hand? Cue the "we've got a bad ass here" pic. ETA: If she was wielding a hammer with the ability to inflict serious bodily injury or death to you, and you were in reasonable fear of such, you'd be justified in capping her. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:33:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure I could handle a 50 year old woman with a hammer. Would a civilian be justified shooting an old lady with a hammer in her hand? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Put your co-worker at that door with a dart gun. Then let's see what he has to say about use of force. Pretty sure I could handle a 50 year old woman with a hammer. Would a civilian be justified shooting an old lady with a hammer in her hand? Is the hammer being used as a deadly weapon to threaten someone and place them In fear for their life while in a place they have a lawful right to be? |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:35:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure I could handle a 50 year old woman with a hammer. Would a civilian be justified shooting an old lady with a hammer in her hand? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Put your co-worker at that door with a dart gun. Then let's see what he has to say about use of force. Pretty sure I could handle a 50 year old woman with a hammer. Would a civilian be justified shooting an old lady with a hammer in her hand? Depending on what she was doing with it?.........every day and twice on sunday. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:37:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty sure I could handle a 50 year old woman with a hammer. Would a civilian be justified shooting an old lady with a hammer in her hand? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Put your co-worker at that door with a dart gun. Then let's see what he has to say about use of force. Pretty sure I could handle a 50 year old woman with a hammer. Would a civilian be justified shooting an old lady with a hammer in her hand? From the description of the incident, sounds like police were coming into her apartment through a security screen door and she then opened the wooden front door swinging the claw hammer wildly at police. They shot her from arms length sounds like. I think most of us could have known that swinging a hammer at police was bad for your health before this incident. Surprise folks who have a gun, with bodily harm and your likely to die by GSW. Action beats reaction, unless you bring overwhelming force to bear. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:39:11 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cue the "we've got a bad ass here" pic. ETA: If she was wielding a hammer with the ability to inflict serious bodily injury or death to you, and you were in reasonable fear of such, you'd be justified in capping her. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Put your co-worker at that door with a dart gun. Then let's see what he has to say about use of force. Pretty sure I could handle a 50 year old woman with a hammer. Would a civilian be justified shooting an old lady with a hammer in her hand? Cue the "we've got a bad ass here" pic. ETA: If she was wielding a hammer with the ability to inflict serious bodily injury or death to you, and you were in reasonable fear of such, you'd be justified in capping her. OMG she's got a hammer!!!!!! ahhhhh!!!!! |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:39:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Next time just tell him that its an awesome idea, and he should go get one for self defense.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:39:56 PM EDT
[#29]
I think the world would be a better place if cops would just use the Vulcan nerve pinch. You know, sneak up behind the bad guys and deliver a nice, clean takedown. No more icky guns. It's for the chirruns.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:45:39 PM EDT
[#30]
You know, I thought most of this would have been self evident. But liberals really are insane, they can't see the fault in their thinking. I used to think the saying, "liberalism is a brain disease" was just a joke, the more I'm around them, I'm starting to see that they really are insane.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:46:35 PM EDT
[#31]
Thomas
A Swift's Electronic Rifle aka Dart firing stun gun. Tranquilizers take too long to start working, not to mention when a person is on some other substance. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 8:55:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Saw a comment in our local news website not that long ago that said "police have bullet proof vests, they should not shoot someone unless they are shot at first"
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:06:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Saw a comment in our local news website not that long ago that said "police have bullet proof vests, they should not shoot someone unless they are shot at first" There are posters on this website who have stated the same thing.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:09:04 PM EDT
[#34]
Apparently he believes an intramuscular injection of sedatives has instantaneous effects.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:14:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a teacher say "why can't the cops just shoot guns out of criminals hands?" Because I never met a cop named Kemosabe. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:18:24 PM EDT
[#36]
Ask him if he wants to take a dart gun and badge and arrest the next barricaded suspect?
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:19:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Pepper spray him in the face.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:23:27 PM EDT
[#38]
All most people know about weapons and tactics are what they see out of Hollywood. i.e. Complete fantasy.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:28:58 PM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:39:44 PM EDT
[#40]
did she hammer in the morning or did she hammer in the evening?
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:51:02 PM EDT
[#41]
I once had a conversation about this very same subject with someone after police killed a suicidal teen who charged them with a knife. He was saying that since they were called in to handle an armed and suicidal teen, they should have come prepared with a tranq and ended it safely.
I told him that you need to get the dosage just right which is unique for every person, too much and he overdoses and dies anyway, too little and it has no effect. His response was that the possibility of death would be much better than the certainty of death by getting shot with boolits, and if the dosage is too little, police could just keep shooting more tranqs at him until it works. I also told him that tranqs aren't instantaneous, that they take a while to kick in and in that time officers can be seriously maimed or killed. He responded to that by saying they should either put the tranqs in a sniper rifle to hit people from a distance, or run and hide after they shoot a person with it until it kicks in. I ended the conversation after that, he was spewing more derpage than I could handle. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:57:41 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
did she hammer in the morning or did she hammer in the evening? I heard she hammered at supper time 
ETA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQBan9MOy60 |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 9:59:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Because the unicorns they ride don't like the smell
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:01:15 PM EDT
[#44]
My boss killed a dog with a tranq dart once.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:02:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I once had a conversation about this very same subject with someone after police killed a suicidal teen who charged them with a knife. He was saying that since they were called in to handle an armed and suicidal teen, they should have come prepared with a tranq and ended it safely. I told him that you need to get the dosage just right which is unique for every person, too much and he overdoses and dies anyway, too little and it has no effect. His response was that the possibility of death would be much better than the certainty of death by getting shot with boolits, and if the dosage is too little, police could just keep shooting more tranqs at him until it works. I also told him that tranqs aren't instantaneous, that they take a while to kick in and in that time officers can be seriously maimed or killed. He responded to that by saying they should either put the tranqs in a sniper rifle to hit people from a distance, or run and hide after they shoot a person with it until it kicks in. I ended the conversation after that, he was spewing more derpage than I could handle. Ya, I didn't want to have the whole conversation. If he couldn't plainly see the reason why that is stupid, then nothing I'm gonna say is going to have an effect. Common sense is lost on liberals. I mean, really, a tranquilizer, seriously? Come on. I actually thought he was joking, then he said, "why are you laughing?" Then again, these people think Obama is the savior of the nation, they can't see him for what he really is either. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:03:07 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:08:23 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My boss killed a dog with a tranq dart once. Hit the dog in the eye? Because you know, darts fly straight as bullets.
Sure it was your boss? 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 10:23:45 PM EDT
[#48]
That only works in the movies.
The movies are not real, you do understand that, right? Which drug do you recommend, and what dosage? What? You don't know, but you think it would work? Is any police department, anywhere, on this planet, in the real world, successfully using tranquilizer darts against people? No? That's a hint. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 11:50:22 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tell them that the amount of dugs needed to drop someone is seconds, is also enough to likely kill someone. Real life aint the movies. This. I work at a community college that has a pre-med series. I asked one of the teachers about anesthesia and she answered that it's a science in which you almost kill the patient, but not quite. There is no all-purpose anesthesia available that will incapacitate a 300 pound weightlifter as well as it does a 100-pound PCP junkie. The time required to make the decision to shoot/not shoot is usually in the one to two second range IIRC. Tell the coworker about the Tueller drill. It's also known as the 21-foot rule: if you don't have your hand on your unsnapped pistol, a bad guy can cross a 21-foot space and damage or even kill you without a handgun. Mythbusters Tueller drill |
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Posted: 8/27/2014 12:18:25 AM EDT
[#50]
If the police go to serve a Mental Eval order on a mentally ill person and that person attacks the police .......
Isn't society better off if the police do what they did? One less crazy in the world. Sounds harsh I know ..... but even if it happened to one of my own family members, I do not believe I would have an issue with it. |
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