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Posted: 8/26/2014 4:38:22 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 8/26/2014 4:48:10 AM EDT
[#2]
That story lacked.. most of the relevant details.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:01:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That story lacked.. most of the relevant details. I was hoping someone here might know something about it and chime in. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:01:59 AM EDT
[#4]
How many rules?
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:02:29 AM EDT
[#5]
Isolated. Just a tragic accident from the sounds of it.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:03:07 AM EDT
[#6]
Found another article which clears it all up.
Mohave County deputies said the girl was at the range with her parents when a gun she had fired.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:05:04 AM EDT
[#7]
Can someone please give me the cliff notes to the article? There was just way too many details about what happened to read them all.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:08:13 AM EDT
[#8]
How vague. Lack of useful content makes me think this is
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:14:23 AM EDT
[#9]
Tl;dr
Girl shot shooting instructor in head. 
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can someone please give me the cliff notes to the article? There was just way too many details about what happened to read them all. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:16:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Nine year old girl.
Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:19:43 AM EDT
[#11]
The only reason to go to press with an article like that when so little is known about the incident is to have one more piece in the media that colors guns poorly.
Not surprising, really. And if she was under instruction, it's the instructor's fault. RO's have a very specific task. i.e. keep the gun pointed down range at all times. Period. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:20:47 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? Nothing, given an appropriate level of competence in the RO. Or, maybe you'd like to help with the anti gun agenda of the left. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:21:53 AM EDT
[#13]
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Nothing, given the appropriate level of competence in the RO. Or, maybe you'd like to help with the anti gun agenda of the left. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? Nothing, given the appropriate level of competence in the RO. Or, maybe you'd like to help with the anti gun agenda of the left. Anti gun? Hardly, more like pro-safety. I appreciate the smear, though. Thank you! |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:22:55 AM EDT
[#14]
Not an accident.
Negligence. Instructor did not ensure that the girl understood the four rules before handling a loaded firearm. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:23:50 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:24:48 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing, given an appropriate level of competence in the RO. Or, maybe you'd like to help with the anti gun agenda of the left. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? Nothing, given an appropriate level of competence in the RO. Or, maybe you'd like to help with the anti gun agenda of the left. lol There aren't ROs in Mohave. There's not instructors either. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it was Jimbob teaching his daughter and if not him, his drinking buddy Joebob that claims he is a vietnam veteran frogman first seal ever and therefore is qualified to teach kids to shoot. Reason being is a lot of desert and you can step out your door to shoot however far. Don't need a range for that. MCSD is pretty cool and laid back. They do have a huge county to patrol and lots of meth'rs out there. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:25:03 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That story lacked.. most of the relevant details. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:25:46 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most of my friends and I were killing game with centerfire rifles around that age. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? We could only afford .22LR at about $0.01/round. We were poor. 
Never shot anyone, though. 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:25:47 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? Seriously? Thousands of 9 years olds shoot guns everyday in this country without shooting anyone. So typically nothing. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:31:52 AM EDT
[#20]
Let me repost this for the hotheads:
Inept instructor. Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:34:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Absolutely terrifying video of my 8yo girl shooting an actual firearm.
http://vid1326.photobucket.com/albums/u660/ridgerunner9876/annieshooting_zpsbbddb56a.mp4 Even scarier video of her 12yo brother with an "EEK" evil black rifle. http://vid1326.photobucket.com/albums/u660/ridgerunner9876/jakeshootingedit2_zps892f18d4.mp4 |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:38:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let me repost this for the hotheads: Inept instructor. Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? So we could say Nine yo girl Car Road trip What could go wrong? And people would look at you like you're a goofball. Or, we could say, Nine yo girl Car Road trip Driver is drunk off his ass What could go wrong? So, you left out the idiot in your first list which is really the dangerous component. Not the girl and the gun and ammo. Which is EXACTLY the tactic the left employs. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:40:27 AM EDT
[#23]
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lol There aren't ROs in Mohave. There's not instructors either. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it was Jimbob teaching his daughter and if not him, his drinking buddy Joebob that claims he is a vietnam veteran frogman first seal ever and therefore is qualified to teach kids to shoot. Reason being is a lot of desert and you can step out your door to shoot however far. Don't need a range for that. MCSD is pretty cool and laid back. They do have a huge county to patrol and lots of meth'rs out there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? Nothing, given an appropriate level of competence in the RO. Or, maybe you'd like to help with the anti gun agenda of the left. lol There aren't ROs in Mohave. There's not instructors either. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts it was Jimbob teaching his daughter and if not him, his drinking buddy Joebob that claims he is a vietnam veteran frogman first seal ever and therefore is qualified to teach kids to shoot. Reason being is a lot of desert and you can step out your door to shoot however far. Don't need a range for that. MCSD is pretty cool and laid back. They do have a huge county to patrol and lots of meth'rs out there. I'm just glad it was the incompetent (apparently) party who was injured and not the kid. I don't doubt that your scenario is the likely one, although I've seen some incompetent ROs, too. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:41:26 AM EDT
[#24]
Maybe it was intentional and the girl is a scapegoat.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:41:36 AM EDT
[#25]
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How many rules? Could easily simplify it to one. Don't be negligent. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:44:09 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/26/girl-accidentally-shoots-instructor-at-arizona-gun-range/?intcmp=latestnews Authorities say a 9-year-old girl has accidentally shot her shooting instructor in the head in northwestern Arizona. Mohave County Sheriff's officials say the 39-year-old shooting instructor was shot at an outdoor range in Dolan Springs about 10 a.m. Monday. there is no such thing as an "accidental" shooting. its negligent. 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:45:21 AM EDT
[#27]
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Let me repost this for the hotheads: Inept instructor. Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? something wrong with kids shooting?
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:46:14 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
there is no such thing as an "accidental" shooting. its negligent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/26/girl-accidentally-shoots-instructor-at-arizona-gun-range/?intcmp=latestnews Authorities say a 9-year-old girl has accidentally shot her shooting instructor in the head in northwestern Arizona. Mohave County Sheriff's officials say the 39-year-old shooting instructor was shot at an outdoor range in Dolan Springs about 10 a.m. Monday. there is no such thing as an "accidental" shooting. its negligent. Negligent is in the universe of accident. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. I'm sure the little girl did not intentionally shoot the guy, ergo it is an accidental shooting. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:51:12 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely terrifying video of my 8yo girl shooting an actual firearm. http://vid1326.photobucket.com/albums/u660/ridgerunner9876/annieshooting_zpsbbddb56a.mp4 Even scarier video of her 12yo brother with an "EEK" evil black rifle. http://vid1326.photobucket.com/albums/u660/ridgerunner9876/jakeshootingedit2_zps892f18d4.mp4 well shit! heres a pic of my 5 year old tearing it up with HIS rifle shooting iron sights in sub zero conditions 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:51:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Another instructor falls victim to the death blossom.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:51:21 AM EDT
[#31]
hopefully the instructor pulls through; |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:52:54 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Negligent is in the universe of accident. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. I'm sure the little girl did not intentionally shoot the guy, ergo it is an accidental shooting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/26/girl-accidentally-shoots-instructor-at-arizona-gun-range/?intcmp=latestnews Authorities say a 9-year-old girl has accidentally shot her shooting instructor in the head in northwestern Arizona. Mohave County Sheriff's officials say the 39-year-old shooting instructor was shot at an outdoor range in Dolan Springs about 10 a.m. Monday. there is no such thing as an "accidental" shooting. its negligent. Negligent is in the universe of accident. The two are NOT mutually exclusive. I'm sure the little girl did not intentionally shoot the guy, ergo it is an accidental shooting. an accident is "through no fault of your own, this happened" negligent is " you didnt do what you knew you were supposed to do and this happened" they are not the same. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:54:19 AM EDT
[#33]
This is very sad really. That's going to haunt that girl for the rest of her life. I wonder if she'll ever be able to deal with the feeling of guilt.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:01:46 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only reason to go to press with an article like that when so little is known about the incident is to have one more piece in the media that colors guns poorly. Not surprising, really. And if she was under instruction, it's the instructor's fault. RO's have a very specific task. i.e. keep the gun pointed down range at all times. Period. 100% correct. Unfortunately the girl will be scarred for life from the "instructor's" screw up. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:07:58 AM EDT
[#35]
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well shit! heres a pic of my 5 year old tearing it up with HIS rifle shooting iron sights in sub zero conditions
<a href="http://s27.photobucket.com/user/J75player/media/kids/rshooting1_zps2c1ee364.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/kids/rshooting1_zps2c1ee364.jpg</a> <a href="http://s27.photobucket.com/user/J75player/media/kids/Rshooting_zps01d4259a.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/kids/Rshooting_zps01d4259a.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely terrifying video of my 8yo girl shooting an actual firearm. http://vid1326.photobucket.com/albums/u660/ridgerunner9876/annieshooting_zpsbbddb56a.mp4 Even scarier video of her 12yo brother with an "EEK" evil black rifle. http://vid1326.photobucket.com/albums/u660/ridgerunner9876/jakeshootingedit2_zps892f18d4.mp4 well shit! heres a pic of my 5 year old tearing it up with HIS rifle shooting iron sights in sub zero conditions
<a href="http://s27.photobucket.com/user/J75player/media/kids/rshooting1_zps2c1ee364.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/kids/rshooting1_zps2c1ee364.jpg</a> <a href="http://s27.photobucket.com/user/J75player/media/kids/Rshooting_zps01d4259a.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/kids/Rshooting_zps01d4259a.jpg</a> Those little savages (the rifle not the kids  ) are mighty fine, I think.
I love your boy's expression, standing in front of his target. Shame on you for subjecting him to harsh environments and dangerous implements. Hope he at least got hot chocolate when he got indoors.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:08:48 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nothing, given an appropriate level of competence in the RO. Or, maybe you'd like to help with the anti gun agenda of the left. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? Nothing, given an appropriate level of competence in the RO. Or, maybe you'd like to help with the anti gun agenda of the left. I don't think they need any help with stories like this. Derp. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:12:25 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe it was intentional and the girl is a scapegoat. Now we're cooking. Better yet, nine-year-old is a highly trained assassin posing as a beginner shooter to take lessons from the man she was hired to dispatch for "crimes" committed against her family during his tour of duty years ago. Bingo. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:12:56 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
something wrong with kids shooting? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Let me repost this for the hotheads: Inept instructor. Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? something wrong with kids shooting? Sorry my edit didn't help. Not much more I can do for you.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:19:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
100% correct. Unfortunately the girl will be scarred for life from the "instructor's" screw up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only reason to go to press with an article like that when so little is known about the incident is to have one more piece in the media that colors guns poorly. Not surprising, really. And if she was under instruction, it's the instructor's fault. RO's have a very specific task. i.e. keep the gun pointed down range at all times. Period. 100% correct. Unfortunately the girl will be scarred for life from the "instructor's" screw up. Have you ever been in the range with a new shooter? Before you know it they can turn around and are suddenly sweeping everyone with the muzzle. If their finger is still on the trigger, a round can be discharged and into someone before people even have time to process what is happening. Handling guns is an inherently dangerous activity because it only takes a split second for things to go from fun to fatal. There is no way an RO can account for what a new shooter may do on the range. At best, you lay out guidelines that you hope the new shooter will remember during live fire. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:27:20 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
something wrong with kids shooting? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Let me repost this for the hotheads: Inept instructor. Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? something wrong with kids shooting? There's certainly something wrong with kids shooting people in the head. Especially if it's your head. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:32:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you ever been in the range with a new shooter? Before you know it they can turn around and are suddenly sweeping everyone with the muzzle. If their finger is still on the trigger, a round can be discharged and into someone before people even have time to process what is happening. Handling guns is an inherently dangerous activity because it only takes a split second for things to go from fun to fatal. There is no way an RO can account for what a new shooter may do on the range. At best, you lay out guidelines that you hope the new shooter will remember during live fire. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The only reason to go to press with an article like that when so little is known about the incident is to have one more piece in the media that colors guns poorly. Not surprising, really. And if she was under instruction, it's the instructor's fault. RO's have a very specific task. i.e. keep the gun pointed down range at all times. Period. 100% correct. Unfortunately the girl will be scarred for life from the "instructor's" screw up. Have you ever been in the range with a new shooter? Before you know it they can turn around and are suddenly sweeping everyone with the muzzle. If their finger is still on the trigger, a round can be discharged and into someone before people even have time to process what is happening. Handling guns is an inherently dangerous activity because it only takes a split second for things to go from fun to fatal. There is no way an RO can account for what a new shooter may do on the range. At best, you lay out guidelines that you hope the new shooter will remember during live fire. Certified NRA and USPSA RO, here. I disagree with most of your post. If the shooter is brand new, the RO stands in such a way that he is able to immediately control the firearm/person. Typically, the elbow of the firing hand will be the control point. You can keep them from turning left or right. You are to pay attention to the person firing at ALL times in which they have a hot firearm and be ready to correct any dangerous movement. You don't look down range to watch hits. You don't talk to other shooters or ROs. You pay attention to your responsibility. Only after hours of practice and the shooter has demonstrated that they are safe under different circumstances and distractions do I stand more than an arm's length away. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:36:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you ever been in the range with a new shooter? Before you know it they can turn around and are suddenly sweeping everyone with the muzzle. If their finger is still on the trigger, a round can be discharged and into someone before people even have time to process what is happening. Handling guns is an inherently dangerous activity because it only takes a split second for things to go from fun to fatal. There is no way an RO can account for what a new shooter may do on the range. At best, you lay out guidelines that you hope the new shooter will remember during live fire. Actually yes all the time for the last 15 years. I'm a USPSA RO and match director, Appleseed instructor and NRA instructor who routinely introduces new shooters to all facets of shooting including running and gunning. I've had widowed ladies and nine year olds run USPSA stages many times. What you do is start out by only giving the shooter a single round after dry rehearsal. If they do OK with that you let them load up. In both cases you stay on them like white on rice so they can not violate muzzle discipline without you steering their arm/hand back to a safe direction. 100% of my attention is on the gun watching what they're doing with it and ready to take control of it if need be. At all times until they've proved themselves you stay very close to them on their strong side (5 o'clock or 7 o'clock with your hands ready to take the gun). Not a hard concept but it requires paying attention. ETA - I may not know inverted ballistics but I see ridgerunner and I agree (not surprising since it's pretty standard safety protocol).
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:40:51 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
well shit! heres a pic of my 5 year old tearing it up with HIS rifle shooting iron sights in sub zero conditions
<a href="http://s27.photobucket.com/user/J75player/media/kids/rshooting1_zps2c1ee364.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/kids/rshooting1_zps2c1ee364.jpg</a> <a href="http://s27.photobucket.com/user/J75player/media/kids/Rshooting_zps01d4259a.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/kids/Rshooting_zps01d4259a.jpg</a> Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Absolutely terrifying video of my 8yo girl shooting an actual firearm. http://vid1326.photobucket.com/albums/u660/ridgerunner9876/annieshooting_zpsbbddb56a.mp4 Even scarier video of her 12yo brother with an "EEK" evil black rifle. http://vid1326.photobucket.com/albums/u660/ridgerunner9876/jakeshootingedit2_zps892f18d4.mp4 well shit! heres a pic of my 5 year old tearing it up with HIS rifle shooting iron sights in sub zero conditions
<a href="http://s27.photobucket.com/user/J75player/media/kids/rshooting1_zps2c1ee364.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/kids/rshooting1_zps2c1ee364.jpg</a> <a href="http://s27.photobucket.com/user/J75player/media/kids/Rshooting_zps01d4259a.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c183/J75player/kids/Rshooting_zps01d4259a.jpg</a> Plus 100 internets for you. Kid has eyes and ears on. Plus 100 internets for him gun appears to stay pointed down range and finger is not on the trigger when not shooting. Good job dad. (I realize all that is as it should be, but if you comment on people doing good things they tend to do more good things). |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:43:34 AM EDT
[#44]
It is interesting how similar our posts are. Almost identical information.
You took more care in writing yours. 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:45:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is very sad really. That's going to haunt that girl for the rest of her life. I wonder if she'll ever be able to deal with the feeling of guilt. This. Hope she can overcome it. On a lighter note. Kid is gonna have a hard time hiring another instructor in the future............ |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:47:49 AM EDT
[#46]
I've taken my ten year old daughter shooting periodically since she was 5. I always loaded exactly the amount of rounds that we were going to shoot right then and as soon as she stopped firing the gun I would put hands on the weapon and control it while telling her to put it on "Safe", remove the mag, and empty the chamber (if needed).
I will only have to imagine the lack of supervision required to allow something like this to happen. The jackass that got shot has probably scarred that poor kid for life by his decision to be complacent or inattentive. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:56:01 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only reason to go to press with an article like that when so little is known about the incident is to have one more piece in the media that colors guns poorly. Not surprising, really. And if she was under instruction, it's the instructor's fault. RO's have a very specific task. i.e. keep the gun pointed down range at all times. Period. All largely true, but still sad to hear about. The wife and I started and for 14 years ran the "Kid's Fun Shoot" at our clubs annual open house. It was a production line of kids ranging from zero (first time to touch a firearm) experience to some pretty good shooters (safe and accurate). Because the kids were so much fun to work with, after the first year we always had plenty of people to work our berm (frequently other areas had to beg for enough help to man the other sports, high power, sm bore silhouette and etc.) this gave us the luxury of a simple rule, we always had a minimum of two people on each shooter and usually three. Primary coach stood over shooter and was charged with instruction and to keep eyes on at all times. Secondary coach(s) provided any needed support, loading mags, adjusting seating or sand bags, resetting/replacing targets and etc. Primary coach was the only one to talk to the kid during shooting (too many cooks spoil the soup) if the secondary coaches had suggestions they directed them to the primary coach. 14 years and no NDs, not even a muzzle sweep. If anyone wants to know how to run a kiddie fun shoot, email me, we have the program dialed in. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 7:07:18 AM EDT
[#48]
So she gets an "F"?
9 Years old is old enough to shoot, but of course requires diligent super vision. My guess is the range instructor got complacent and an accident happened, or perhaps a freak accident with a ricochet or something. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 7:12:01 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. What could go wrong? My line will have 10 or so experienced shooters with 3 instructors managing safety. We don't shoot if the ratio is more than 5 shooters per instructor (plus parents). These kids shoot a LOT more than I ever have. By the time they get to my line, they are safety Nazis. |
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Posted: 8/26/2014 7:31:51 AM EDT
[#50]
Allow me to add a point that might better explain:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let me repost this for the hotheads: Inept instructor. Nine year old girl. Gun. Ammunition. Blatant disregard or failure to instill the Four Rules on the part of the "adult" and child What could go wrong? And it's not "hotheads" complaining about your wording, it's anyone who's observed or engaged the media and anti-2A advocates and recognizes the style. |
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