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Posted: 8/18/2014 8:27:29 PM EDT
I was looking at the bro dozer thread. 80K pick up trucks are crazy. Even used ones that are modestly equipped are crazy priced these days.
Would there be a market for a full sized, "bare bones" truck in today's market? No cutting edge tech, the minimum to get it crash proofed and street legal? I think there would be. I'm not talking that Kenyan Landrover Knockoff, but something well built, full sized and low cost. Imagine rolling down your own windows, in your bench seat, am radio having, leaf spring suspension, two door truck with a manual transmission (column shift!)....that sort of thing. There has to be a market for people who want the utility of a truck, but don't want to pay luxury car prices for them. |
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They dont make AM radios anymore. Maybe radio delete?
i would need air. I would also like a 4 cyl turbo diesel |
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There is a market, it's called fleets.
There are trucks out there that are base, 2WD, V-6, manual windows, bench seats. No way you can get anything with just AM anymore. And the thing is, you have to look for them, because dealers aren't going to sell a lot of base XL F-150s and W/T Silverados. I see those at the auto shows because contractors and fleet managers go to those things too. That said, a few years ago my dad bought a used C2500, it had crank windows, vinyl bench, manual everything and initially just AM/FM, it was a good truck. And it won't sell anymore because people that want trucks want creature comforts. |
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There is a market, it's called fleets. There are trucks out there that are base, 2WD, V-6, manual windows, bench seats. No way you can get anything with just AM anymore. And the thing is, you have to look for them, because dealers aren't going to sell a lot of base XL F-150s and W/T Silverados. I see those at the auto shows because contractors and fleet managers go to those things too. That said, a few years ago my dad bought a used C2500, it had crank windows, vinyl bench, manual everything and initially just AM/FM, it was a good truck. And it won't sell anymore because people that want trucks want creature comforts. View Quote Some gov surplus stuff like that. Saw a propane Ford ranger that looked pretty bare bones in San Antonio not too long ago. Dunno what it went for, but I was tempted. |
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Quoted: There is a market, it's called fleets. There are trucks out there that are base, 2WD, V-6, manual windows, bench seats. No way you can get anything with just AM anymore. And the thing is, you have to look for them, because dealers aren't going to sell a lot of base XL F-150s and W/T Silverados. I see those at the auto shows because contractors and fleet managers go to those things too. That said, a few years ago my dad bought a used C2500, it had crank windows, vinyl bench, manual everything and initially just AM/FM, it was a good truck. View Quote Seriously, base equipped trucks are next to impossible to find new. |
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"What's my payment?"
This is how most people buy cars. Leather is $20. Power windows are $10. A lift, some wheels/tires, tint and truck nuts are $55. |
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Quoted: Because let's face it, who wants one? Dealers don't stock things that won't turn a profit. This isn't the 80s or early 90s anymore. Most people want creature comforts and rolling down your window by hand? http://claimyourjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/screen-shot-2013-01-20-at-10-26-50-pm.png View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Seriously, base equipped trucks are next to impossible to find new. Because let's face it, who wants one? Dealers don't stock things that won't turn a profit. This isn't the 80s or early 90s anymore. Most people want creature comforts and rolling down your window by hand? http://claimyourjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/screen-shot-2013-01-20-at-10-26-50-pm.png |
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Quoted: "What's my payment?" This is how most people buy cars. Leather is $20. Power windows are $10. A lift, some wheels/tires, tint and truck nuts are $55. View Quote It would be a niche vehicle. I think it would sell though. You could get 4WD if you wanted to, but you'd have to get out and lock the hubs. |
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True, but I think if you could get a full sized, new, solidly built truck for under 20k, a lot of people would buy them as a second vehicle. Pick ups are great to have, but not if they rival your mortgage payment. View Quote Toss the blame at the alphabet agencies that dictate all this. EPA, DOT, NHTSA. The regulations that weren't applicable in the "good old days" are part of the reason why cars and trucks are so gosh darn expensive. Even the base LS Silverado with extended cab, 4.3L V-6, automatic and 2WD was $26k. |
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You could get 4WD if you wanted to, but you'd have to get out and lock the hubs. View Quote I don't get the "old tech in a new vehicle" obsession. I'd love to have a record player in a car because I collect and play records, but I'm literally one of two people who would want that. I mean, there's a reason that technology has evolved, because who really wants to go back to the old ways? Let's bring back hand crank starters and rumble seats while we're at it. |
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Yeah, but most people don't buy their pick ups three at a time.... Seriously, base equipped trucks are next to impossible to find new. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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There is a market, it's called fleets. There are trucks out there that are base, 2WD, V-6, manual windows, bench seats. No way you can get anything with just AM anymore. And the thing is, you have to look for them, because dealers aren't going to sell a lot of base XL F-150s and W/T Silverados. I see those at the auto shows because contractors and fleet managers go to those things too. That said, a few years ago my dad bought a used C2500, it had crank windows, vinyl bench, manual everything and initially just AM/FM, it was a good truck. Seriously, base equipped trucks are next to impossible to find new. Do you know why? Because they don't sell worth a shit. They also have very little margin built into them, so dealers don't order them. |
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I doubt it.
The cost of adding "basic" power options to a vehicle has gotten ridiculously cheap over the past decade or so. A "nicely equipped" vehicle really doesn't cost all that much more to manufacture than a strippo. It's true that manufacturers still continue to charge inflated prices for options on certain desirable models - But there are still plenty of bargains to be had. |
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Margin = dealer commission. Fleets = no margin.
Fleet units are always bare bones. Heck on the heavy duty side of things it'd hard not to find stripped units. Fun fact. Most cat rental equipment doesn't have a radio in it. |
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Quoted: Toss the blame at the alphabet agencies that dictate all this. EPA, DOT, NHTSA. The regulations that weren't applicable in the "good old days" are part of the reason why cars and trucks are so gosh darn expensive. Even the base LS Silverado with extended cab, 4.3L V-6, automatic and 2WD was $26k. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: True, but I think if you could get a full sized, new, solidly built truck for under 20k, a lot of people would buy them as a second vehicle. Pick ups are great to have, but not if they rival your mortgage payment. Toss the blame at the alphabet agencies that dictate all this. EPA, DOT, NHTSA. The regulations that weren't applicable in the "good old days" are part of the reason why cars and trucks are so gosh darn expensive. Even the base LS Silverado with extended cab, 4.3L V-6, automatic and 2WD was $26k. Absolutely true. But, you can mitigate some of cost by using mature technology and forgoing bells and whistles. So, going what is sub base level today. Anyway, I saw something the last time I was in the market for a car that stuck with me. I'll paraphrase; basically it was that the average american, who was buying a new car ten years ago, was driving a car that was five years old at time of new purchase. As of 2011 (last time we bought a car) the average person buying a new car was driving a car that was eleven years old at the time of new purchase. |
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Why the fuck are diesels so expensive bought my king ranch F-250 in '08 for 35k lol now i can't even find a damn 2007 dodge 1 ton for under 30k
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Nobody wants that shit except fleets.
People want baby seal leather seats with heat and AC to keep their fat asses comfortable, 17 speed automatic transmissions that shift as smooth as astroglide, and interiors quiet enough to hear their grandma queef at 90mph. I wanted a basic no frills truck so I got a 95 Dakota with a V8 and a 5 speed. Done. |
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The people who buy cars that way wouldn't be buying a bare bones truck in the first place. It would be a niche vehicle. I think it would sell though. You could get 4WD if you wanted to, but you'd have to get out and lock the hubs. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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"What's my payment?" This is how most people buy cars. Leather is $20. Power windows are $10. A lift, some wheels/tires, tint and truck nuts are $55. It would be a niche vehicle. I think it would sell though. You could get 4WD if you wanted to, but you'd have to get out and lock the hubs. It might sell 5k the first year. 2k the next. None the year after. Nobody wants to pay $20k for a new stripper with power nothing, get out and lock the hubs 4x4, and not enough power to get out of its own damn way. Why? Because instead, they can pay $20k and get the last body style of the same thing with 50k on the clock and heated leather seats. The "I want a frame, cab, box, engine, transmission, and transfer case with a lawn chair for a seat and a vice grip for a steering wheel" crowd is a vocal minority. A very minuscule minority. ETA: Almost forgot: economies of scale. It would actually be more expensive to produce your sub base model OP, because it would require non-standard parts and non-standard assembly, making it even more expensive to buy than a base model. Where a stripper base truck is say... 23k, your Arf Caveman Special would most likely be MSRP'd at 30k because of the special manufacturing attention it would require. |
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If you blow the right guy I'm sure you could get a fleet stripper special.
But be prepared to keep it a looong time because the resale $ will be 0. Years back i knew a guy that special ordered a 2500 2wd, 5 speed, V10 Dodge, AM radio, rubber floor, manual everything. Then he was pissing and moaning that dealerships wouldn't even make him an offer on trading it in, and no private party wanted it. Hell, if it had at least been 4wd someone would have wanted it, but 2wd= no dice. |
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I was looking at the bro dozer thread. 80K pick up trucks are crazy. Even used ones that are modestly equipped are crazy priced these days. Would there be a market for a full sized, "bare bones" truck in today's market? No cutting edge tech, the minimum to get it crash proofed and street legal? I think there would be. I'm not talking that Kenyan Landrover Knockoff, but something well built, full sized and low cost. Imagine rolling down your own windows, in your bench seat, am radio having, leaf spring suspension, two door truck with a manual transmission (column shift!)....that sort of thing. There has to be a market for people who want the utility of a truck, but don't want to pay luxury car prices for them. View Quote What is "crash proofed"? |
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Quoted: Quoted: I was looking at the bro dozer thread. 80K pick up trucks are crazy. Even used ones that are modestly equipped are crazy priced these days. Would there be a market for a full sized, "bare bones" truck in today's market? No cutting edge tech, the minimum to get it crash proofed and street legal? I think there would be. I'm not talking that Kenyan Landrover Knockoff, but something well built, full sized and low cost. Imagine rolling down your own windows, in your bench seat, am radio having, leaf spring suspension, two door truck with a manual transmission (column shift!)....that sort of thing. There has to be a market for people who want the utility of a truck, but don't want to pay luxury car prices for them. What is "crash proofed"? |
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I was looking at the bro dozer thread. 80K pick up trucks are crazy. Even used ones that are modestly equipped are crazy priced these days. Would there be a market for a full sized, "bare bones" truck in today's market? No cutting edge tech, the minimum to get it crash proofed and street legal? I think there would be. I'm not talking that Kenyan Landrover Knockoff, but something well built, full sized and low cost. Imagine rolling down your own windows, in your bench seat, am radio having, leaf spring suspension, two door truck with a manual transmission (column shift!)....that sort of thing. There has to be a market for people who want the utility of a truck, but don't want to pay luxury car prices for them. What is "crash proofed"? http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/FMVSS/ |
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I kinda think that by the time the manufactures meet all the .gov standards the cost of power features and other creature comforts are trivial in the overall cost. Not to mention that to build these barebones trucks they would have to change some things up on the assembly line, which would cost money.
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I bought a new F250 XL in 2011 and it has more crap on it than the Lariat package did in the mid 90's. Very happy with my truck but it is not stripped by any means.
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I was looking at the bro dozer thread. 80K pick up trucks are crazy. Even used ones that are modestly equipped are crazy priced these days. Would there be a market for a full sized, "bare bones" truck in today's market? No cutting edge tech, the minimum to get it crash proofed and street legal? I think there would be. I'm not talking that Kenyan Landrover Knockoff, but something well built, full sized and low cost. Imagine rolling down your own windows, in your bench seat, am radio having, leaf spring suspension, two door truck with a manual transmission (column shift!)....that sort of thing. There has to be a market for people who want the utility of a truck, but don't want to pay luxury car prices for them. What is "crash proofed"? http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/FMVSS/ Well then, they're all "crash proofed" except for the idiot driving. |
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Gimme a diesel Hilux with AC and a radio and I'd be happy forever
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Quoted:
I was looking at the bro dozer thread. 80K pick up trucks are crazy. Even used ones that are modestly equipped are crazy priced these days. Would there be a market for a full sized, "bare bones" truck in today's market? No cutting edge tech, the minimum to get it crash proofed and street legal? I think there would be. I'm not talking that Kenyan Landrover Knockoff, but something well built, full sized and low cost. Imagine rolling down your own windows, in your bench seat, am radio having, leaf spring suspension, two door truck with a manual transmission (column shift!)....that sort of thing. There has to be a market for people who want the utility of a truck, but don't want to pay luxury car prices for them. View Quote What exactly is CRAZY priced these days? $25,000? You also need to look at what sells the best. Hint, it isn't your cheap bottom of the line pickup. Texas is the biggest Pickup truck market in the US. I grew up driving around in my dad's stripped down pickups and have no desire to ever go back. The only people that would drive a stripped down truck are people who have another car as their primary mode of transportation. Even if I had a bunch of land and had a need for a ranch truck I would sooner buy an old used truck than some new truck that was stripped down. I just did a quick search of Ford F150's in my area and found over 50 for under $15k. In addition I find that trucks hold their value a LOT better than cars. |
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The japanese have these goofy little putt-putt trucks, 4wd, basic bed, basic cab. They're cheap as balls because you can't register them on the damn road in the USA. I'd use the dogshit out of one of them if I could drive it places.
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Yes it would . There is a market for an F-250 that is not $42000
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I drive a regular cab Ford Ranger with a manual transmission and no power windows/door locks. I'm not into paying $60,000 for a vehicle and I don't really need a brodozer. I would be in the market for such a thing when I buy my next vehicle (which hopefully will be a long, long time from now).
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As others have pointed out, fleet type trucks are still out there and can be had for relatively affordable prices. I worked for a small company that bought new F150's in '06 and they ended up paying about 14k for each of them (only bought 2). They were F150 XL 2wd, 8' bed, roll up windows, plastic floors, and bench seats. After the rebates and specials of the time, they were about 14k (+tax, tag, title) each. THe guy got them at the end of the model year so there were good deals to be had plus he financed them through Ford Credit which gave him additional off the price of the truck (then he paid them off the next month).
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True, but I think if you could get a full sized, new, solidly built truck for under 20k, a lot of people would buy them as a second vehicle. Pick ups are great to have, but not if they rival your mortgage payment. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Seriously, base equipped trucks are next to impossible to find new. Because let's face it, who wants one? Dealers don't stock things that won't turn a profit. This isn't the 80s or early 90s anymore. Most people want creature comforts and rolling down your window by hand? http://claimyourjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/screen-shot-2013-01-20-at-10-26-50-pm.png Earlier this year I looked at an F-150 XL, 5.0 V8, 6 speed auto, power windows & locks, short bed, standard cab. A leftover new 2013 was about $23K. Nice truck, just decided to go with something else. |
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I bought my truck new with rubber floormats, roll down windows and no remote. Yeah, it would sell.
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Like gun owners over 6', I feel there is a bit of self selection bias going on in this thread.
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Just buy an older vehicle and learn to work on it yourself. Pick a vehicle that had enough of a follwing to develop an aftermarket and there is no shortage of parts.
Trucks today being expensive is part of the appeal to the heated seats crowd. They can either brag about how much they spent, or brag about how much they saved, when a 20+ year old truck could haul their fat asses and groceries around just fine. Unless a vehicle was totalled in an accident you can get a full sized truck serviced and running good as new for well under 10k, under 5k for an old Ranger around here. You will lose more than that in depreciation on a brodozer. ETA: Also, the older the vehicle the simpler it is to work on. You don't have any of the emissions and efficiency garbage new ones have either, and can feel like a real big spender when you stop for a tank of gas every three days like me. |
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I was looking at the bro dozer thread. 80K pick up trucks are crazy. Even used ones that are modestly equipped are crazy priced these days. Would there be a market for a full sized, "bare bones" truck in today's market? No cutting edge tech, the minimum to get it crash proofed and street legal? I think there would be. I'm not talking that Kenyan Landrover Knockoff, but something well built, full sized and low cost. Imagine rolling down your own windows, in your bench seat, am radio having, leaf spring suspension, two door truck with a manual transmission (column shift!)....that sort of thing. There has to be a market for people who want the utility of a truck, but don't want to pay luxury car prices for them. View Quote Nope, if it sold well, they would have them on all the lots. Power windows can be built nearly as cheap as a manual crank window, and probably even cheaper with economy of scale (since most people would still buy the power version). Adding FM to the AM radio is another minor expense. That's not the kind of stuff that has made new trucks expensive. ABS, SIR, OnStar, cylinder deactivation, 6+ speed transmissions, those are the things that have really added to the pricetag. And most of that was mandated by the Federal government, so it's not optional. Would I buy a truck without all of that shit? Fuck yeah, I would! I do like my 6-speed trans, but I despise ABS, OnStar, and cylinder deactivation. I would not buy a truck without carpet and power windows. I also would not buy a truck with a bench seat, or without an extra/crew cab (regular cabs just don't have enough legroom for us big guys). |
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Some will buy a truck like that. It's what I was looking for in 08 when I bought my truck.
I ended up with a 2007 single cab silverado with the 4.3 engine, manual trans, windows, door locks vinyl floors and am/fm radio. My father just bought the GMC equivalent last year but it doesn't have the manual trans. |
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There is no market for a bare-bones truck. You can't find them because they don't sell...why is it that all dealerships have nothing but $60k trucks loaded with every option?...because that's what people want.
My DD is a '07 Ram 2500 4x4 Reg cab long bed. Solid axle, floor shift t-case, manual windows/locks, vinyl floor, and a bench seat. Only thing missing is a 6-spd and manual hubs |
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I think when you pay 70K for a new truck, you are that guy that bought into the hype. The hype that another 1-5 MPG is worth it, or 10HP, or a 7 speed vs 6 speed, GPS, Ipod adapter or whatever. I'm not that guy. I'm also not the guy with the newest and greatest cellphone that cost $400-$600. I probably could be, but would rather invest the money in 401K or spend it on guns/ammo.
At the opposite end of the spectrum are the guys that don't believe in fuel injection, power windows/doors or anything that came after. They might be one of the few people walking around that still don't own a cell phone. Then you've got the other 90% somewhere in between. Personally, I've never found a vehicle where everything was exactly what I wanted. When I bought my used truck 5 years ago, I wanted a one with a manual transmission, windows, door locks. I sure as shit didn't want a power seat, cruise control, auto mirrors ect. I couldn't find a used basic truck I wanted for sale. Now that I have these features, I've sort of grown accustomed to them. It's my new baseline. And when I buy another used truck in 5-8 years, it will have more shit I don't need or really want. I guess I'll just have to learn to enjoy heated seats and blue tooth. At least I won't have to pay full price for it like one of my "Bros" did when they got it from the dealer. |
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Quoted: Yeah, but most people don't buy their pick ups three at a time.... Seriously, base equipped trucks are next to impossible to find new. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: There is a market, it's called fleets. There are trucks out there that are base, 2WD, V-6, manual windows, bench seats. No way you can get anything with just AM anymore. And the thing is, you have to look for them, because dealers aren't going to sell a lot of base XL F-150s and W/T Silverados. I see those at the auto shows because contractors and fleet managers go to those things too. That said, a few years ago my dad bought a used C2500, it had crank windows, vinyl bench, manual everything and initially just AM/FM, it was a good truck. Seriously, base equipped trucks are next to impossible to find new. I ordered my F450 in 03 XL trim bench roll up windows etc
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I have an '07 F250 regular cab, long bed, gasser, 6-speed manual, manual hubs, t-case lever, am/fm only, manual locks and windows, cloth bench. Options, a/c, tow package, "fancy headlights", snow plow package, 3.73 gears. The "fancy headlights" aka not sealed beam, didn't matter at the time it was what was on the lot, in hindsight I'm really glad I didn't get some sorry ass sealed beams.
They practically came on themselves when I asked about it, the thing clearly had not moved and no one was interested. Anyway, you can still get a similarly outfitted Super Duty I like my truck, it's paid for, and I'll run it into the ground, but damn power windows are nice for toll booths, check points, and drive thrus, and power locks and better still key fobs are the cats ass when carrying passengers, or loading crap in both sides of the cab, broadcast radio gets real old on a long drive (I fixed that long ago), a tilt column makes things more comfortable, and a split seat lets you stow shit out of sight without gobbling every inch of leg room. Fleets buy barebones trucks often, but they order them, the rest sit there hoping a for some luddite or small business owner, they don't move quickly off the lot so dealers don't order them. Column shift is stupid, the mechanism is over complicated, more expensive, prone to wearing out, and I would guess not readily adaptable to 6 gears, and offers no advantage. |
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Quoted: True, but I think if you could get a full sized, new, solidly built truck for under 20k, a lot of people would buy them as a second vehicle. Pick ups are great to have, but not if they rival your mortgage payment. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Seriously, base equipped trucks are next to impossible to find new. Because let's face it, who wants one? Dealers don't stock things that won't turn a profit. This isn't the 80s or early 90s anymore. Most people want creature comforts and rolling down your window by hand? http://claimyourjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/screen-shot-2013-01-20-at-10-26-50-pm.png |
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They already sell them. A bare bones Chevy that I priced a year ago was 25K
It had only an AM FM radio, manual transmission, crank up windows, rubber mat...no carpet, bench seat,4.3 V6....how bare bones do you want to go...I would say this was as stripped as any truck ever was and it was still priced the same as a loaded Cruze RS with leather and navigation.
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I'm considering building my own, rebuilding an existing truck. Looking at using a Cummings 4BT engine and 5 speed manual trans. I've build street rods so I figure it can't be that hard.
Now I just need to find the right donor body. |
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I always buy base model trucks. Every 4 or 5 yrs I get a new one. I get a "work truck", usually a chevy. They put more stuff on them than they used to. For example my 06 had crank windows. They 2010 couldnt be had without power windows, locks, and keyless entry.
My current 2010 only has 16,500mi on it. I dont buy a truck to be cushy or to drive everywhere or to make a statement about my personality. I buy it to use as a tool. |
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