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Link Posted: 8/11/2012 7:53:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a question....



Can subs make the internal atmosphere roughly equivalent to a few atmospheres greater than sea level?  in other words, can they pressurize internally?

If not, has the navy ever explored this possibility?  Obviously it introduces a whole other set of problems.  


I don't know that such a thing would be useful.  And only then in a very limited set of circumstances.



I know nothing about them so forgive me if it seems a ridiculous question.


We try to maintain the atmosphere at 760Torr. The pressure goes up as air leaks O2 bleeds ect occur but then air charges(HP air compressors) are done and a balance is achieved over time. Hatches are designed(now) to allow for cracking and allowing the boat and atmosphere to equalize with out killing anyone. You can pressurize all you want, raise the O2 levels also. I have seen O2 so low that cigarettes would not stay lit and so high that they would be gone in one drag. Back in the olden times when you could smoke and cuss and shit in the Navy.[>://

My first boat the reactor tunnel door was not like that, sometimes when the compartments pressures were different and the door was on the latch vice dogged, someone would hit the latch and pressure would launch that fucker open, fun.

We also have a snorkel mast which we can raise above the surface and equalize the boat with atmosphere. Sometimes this has to be done when a "ballance" can't be achieved.


One of the guys who owns my local range was the helmsman on the USS Birmingham.
I was surprised to find out that you could even smoke on a submarine.
I asked him if it was like a special scrubbed compartment, you know, like in the back of the boat?
Hell no. At your station! He said the helmsman's chair had an ashtray in the armrest like on a plane.
Link Posted: 8/11/2012 8:10:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Neighbor served on the USS Whale,what's left of her is in Idaho. Or Washington.


A buddy of mine served on the Whale; he told me when he was there they had a fat CO and when he was piped onboard,"Whale Arriving" , the topside watch would snicker. He made them stop announcing his arrival and departure. Funny shit


I served on the USS Wabash AOR 5 for five years. We had an OPS Officer Mr. Carstens  that was huge and had a bad habit of pacing the Pilot House when standing OOD watch. One of the Quarter Masters just after quarters got on the 1MC and announced "Stand by for heavy rolls as Mr. Carstens paces the Pilot House". Hilarity ensued.
Link Posted: 8/12/2012 8:51:18 PM EDT
[#3]
I have answers.

By the way, that sexy photo you see everywhere of the USS Birmingham doing a full blow and breaching like a whale was shot on sea trials and my friend Mark is driving the boat. He said they only performed that maneuver twice.

The helmsman steers the boat. His yoke has control of the rudder and stern planes.
He is the one actually turning the boat via the rudder. And controlling the ascent or descent of the boat via the stern planes.

Another man controls the fairwaters or bow planes. On the Birmingham these are on the sail.
They adjust the pitch of the boat known as the "bubble". The fairwaters act in conjunction with the stern planes to ascend or descend.
However, the boat can dynamically dive with the nose pointed up or ascend with the nose pointed down but not nearly as efficiently.

A third guy trims the boat by adjusting the ballast tanks. He's pretty busy all the time.
A submarine can dive or surface statically, i.e. with no forward motion or force on the planes.
The ballast tanks accomplish this. He can also aid in ascent or descent by flooding or blowing the tanks fore and aft in a dynamic dive.

There is also the capability to roll the sub and according to Mark, this may be done only under extreme circumstances.
In emergencies or in severe evasive maneuvers. It is not a normal component of steering the boat and most of the time the ballast guy
is making adjustments to correct the roll that steering maneuvers can induce.

He said that the left and right dive planes do not work in opposition. In fact they are pinned together.
So the sub cannot make an "aileron roll" like an aircraft. He added that you can go to the back of the boat,
physically un-pin them and hydraulically operate them independently but that is probably for maintenance reasons.

So the answer to the OP's question is that the sub is not normally banked to turn.
The roll is a result of the turn as performed by the rudder and is dependent on the speed and tightness of the turn.
The roll is induced by the uneven action of the water against the planes in the turn.

"Cambridge Ocean Technology Series 2 Concepts in Submarine Designs", page 176.

"When the submerged submarine turns in a horizontal plane, the action of the bridge fin is more complex. Efforts to reduce its drag results in a streamline shape, rather like the airfoil section of a wing of low aspect ratio, which will generate lift when at an angle of attack to the flow. Those circumstances arise in a turn when the hull is in general drift motion and because the sideways lift force on the bridge fin acts well above the axis of the submarine a heeling moment results. The drift angle on a submarine in a tight turn can build up quite quickly and the dynamics of the corresponding heeling moment from the bridge fin can cause a 'snap roll' which although it is inward on the turn can be far larger than is appropriate for a banked turn effect."

It's actually more of an undesirable phenomenon.

Page 157.

Roll Aspects
"It is not unusual to specify any requirements for control of the roll motion, though the designer needs to know the caused of the phenomenon termed 'snap roll', which we describe later, and what steps can be taken to minimize it. It is the practice to lay down a limit on maximum roll angle - 50 degrees is not untypical - to which equipment and machinery on board the submarine have to be designed. Whilst this is set as a design limit it is not acceptable for normal operation."

Link Posted: 8/12/2012 9:01:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Subs do have "wings".
They have planes fore and aft.


an airplane turns because of lift vectoring.  Subs may have fore and aft control surfaces but I didn't think they made lift (other than to climb and descend through the water) because the boat is neutrally buoyant.

Water is almost incompressible.  I don't think water develops high and low pressure areas like air does.


Yes it does. Both water and air are fluid and behave in extremely similar fashions.
Link Posted: 8/12/2012 9:13:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Subs do have "wings".
They have planes fore and aft.

but planes have wings...

Yes, the wings are attached to the planes and the planes are then attached fore and aft. That's why (and this is a little known fact) submarines can fly.

Link Posted: 8/12/2012 9:18:12 PM EDT
[#6]
My only experience is with 637 class boats during sea trials, after overhaul.  I was doing BQQ5 sonar installs at the time (early 80's).  I don't remember any tilt during turns.  We were never pinged from close distance so I never heard one of those, but I have heard whale sounds and schools of shrimp through the hydrophones.

Now, angles and dangles are another matter...  
Link Posted: 8/12/2012 10:01:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a question....



Can subs make the internal atmosphere roughly equivalent to a few atmospheres greater than sea level?  in other words, can they pressurize internally?

If not, has the navy ever explored this possibility?  Obviously it introduces a whole other set of problems.  


I don't know that such a thing would be useful.  And only then in a very limited set of circumstances.



I know nothing about them so forgive me if it seems a ridiculous question.


We try to maintain the atmosphere at 760Torr. The pressure goes up as air leaks O2 bleeds ect occur but then air charges(HP air compressors) are done and a balance is achieved over time. Hatches are designed(now) to allow for cracking and allowing the boat and atmosphere to equalize with out killing anyone. You can pressurize all you want, raise the O2 levels also. I have seen O2 so low that cigarettes would not stay lit and so high that they would be gone in one drag. Back in the olden times when you could smoke and cuss and shit in the Navy.[>://

My first boat the reactor tunnel door was not like that, sometimes when the compartments pressures were different and the door was on the latch vice dogged, someone would hit the latch and pressure would launch that fucker open, fun.

We also have a snorkel mast which we can raise above the surface and equalize the boat with atmosphere. Sometimes this has to be done when a "ballance" can't be achieved.


One of the guys who owns my local range was the helmsman on the USS Birmingham.
I was surprised to find out that you could even smoke on a submarine.
I asked him if it was like a special scrubbed compartment, you know, like in the back of the boat?
Hell no. At your station! He said the helmsman's chair had an ashtray in the armrest like on a plane.


When we would overhaul the electronics equipment from older boats one of the steps was to wash most of it in hot, soapy water (electronics boards and all).  It was mostly to remove the accumulated brown film that covered everything.  There were butt kits at just about every work station in those days.  

Link Posted: 8/12/2012 10:14:24 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Remind me again what the red light is for?


Helps with the circadian (sp) rhythm.  White lights during daytime hours, red lights at night.
Link Posted: 8/12/2012 10:24:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Remind me again what the red light is for?


Helps with the circadian (sp) rhythm.  White lights during daytime hours, red lights at night.


Mark also said that when he joined up at eighteen his first bunk on a sub was in the torpedo room.
The light was always on and there was usually some maintenance or drill happening.
He said that they frequently purged the tubes which involved blasting a shot of compressed air out of them.
Pretty hard to sleep through that.
Link Posted: 8/13/2012 7:08:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Only experiance I have with subs, mainly 688's.  If you were around Point Loma Sub base from 89 - 92 and visited the ARCO, I scraped, cleaned and painted your boats. Also loaded lots of food, stores, batteries and things better left unmentioned. Being a crane operator made life easy sometimes.
Shout outs to:
USS Dallas
USS Chicago
USS Houston
USS Louisville
USS Pasadena
USS Topeka
USS Helena

Oh and we cant forget the USS Puffer (Seriously, who names a sub "Puffer?")

You all fit in my giant napkin hoder.



<–– Prior Bos'n before Corpsman.
Link Posted: 8/14/2012 7:50:29 PM EDT
[#11]
Were you running the crane on the barge the day they dropped a screw in the
drink?  They had just pulled it off one of the boats in dry dock.  It was covered
with a tarp hanging there one minute, nothing but a splash and a ripple the next.
That was a sight to see. Got busy around there right after that. :)

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 8/15/2012 9:22:26 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Were you running the crane on the barge the day they dropped a screw in the
drink?  They had just pulled it off one of the boats in dry dock.  It was covered
with a tarp hanging there one minute, nothing but a splash and a ripple the next.
That was a sight to see. Got busy around there right after that. :)

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


Nope, I was the Operator when they walked a Periscope down from Cal lab and we got it 5 feet off the trailer and the sling snapped. We had a slight delay in that Subs departure. Luckily we had just recieved our lifting slings back from being tested and certified. I believe it was the second critical lift we had on them when they failed.

Don't remember ever losing a screw.... I know we came close, them dang things are right at the max capacity of our cranes.
Link Posted: 8/15/2012 9:30:38 AM EDT
[#13]
The Russian sonar I once heard through the hull (pwned ) sounded a lot like a jangling keyring.  Got to spend about 20 minutes listening to that.  fuckers.

eta: Emergency Surface drills were always a lot of fun. Fun like woohoo! fun.   Go deep, maybe test depth, ring up all ahead Flank, full rise, initiate emergency blow surface, 40 degree up-bubble  and kawhoosh you're on the surface. Great fun. Just like the movie.
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