Anyone know for sure what Chopper was lost during raid?

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Posted: 5/2/2011 11:30:46 AM EDT

Does anyone know for sure what kind of chopper was lost? I have seen reports that it was a Chinook and others indicating it was a Blackhawk. Some saying both in the same story.

Posted: 5/2/2011 11:32:55 AM EDT

[#1]

I've heard the media mention Blackhawk a few times. Not sure though.

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Posted: 5/2/2011 11:35:41 AM EDT

[#2]

ABC News reported it was a CH-47.

Posted: 5/2/2011 11:36:25 AM EDT

[#3]

The green one.

Posted: 5/2/2011 11:37:06 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
The green one.

With the spinny things on top.

Posted: 5/2/2011 11:37:34 AM EDT

[#5]

Posted: 5/2/2011 11:40:14 AM EDT

[#6]

looks like a PIASECKI to me..............

Posted: 5/2/2011 11:41:51 AM EDT

[#7]

Posted: 5/2/2011 11:44:19 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3991/7c634785915a.jpg

That's a busted Blackhawk (or Pave Hawk) rudder.

Posted: 5/2/2011 11:47:16 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3991/7c634785915a.jpg

Thanks!

Posted: 5/2/2011 11:49:49 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3991/7c634785915a.jpg

If that's the picture of it, why is there damage to the rear rotor blades that is consistent with impact during rotation? If they blew it, there wouldn't be bent blades like that.

I'm also not sure how the tail got into that position if they blew it up with C4.

Looks more like a crash scene to me. Are you sure that is the picture of it?

Posted: 5/2/2011 11:53:04 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3991/7c634785915a.jpg

If that's the picture of it, why is there damage to the rear rotor blades that is consistent with impact during rotation? If they blew it, there wouldn't be bent blades like that.

I'm also not sure how the tail got into that position if they blew it up with C4.

Looks more like a crash scene to me. Are you sure that is the picture of it?

Tail rotor will still turn during auto-rotation. And you don't have much of a choice of landing site in an auto-rotation.

Posted: 5/2/2011 11:55:26 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3991/7c634785915a.jpg

If that's the picture of it, why is there damage to the rear rotor blades that is consistent with impact during rotation? If they blew it, there wouldn't be bent blades like that.

I'm also not sure how the tail got into that position if they blew it up with C4.

Looks more like a crash scene to me. Are you sure that is the picture of it?

Tail rotor will still turn during auto-rotation. And you don't have much of a choice of landing site in an auto-rotation.

So there was a crash landing? My understanding was they couldn't get it to spool back up after landing and then blew it up and flew out on the other 3 birds. So I was under the impression that it would have been sitting on relatively flat ground and blown up with C4.

But if it landed hard or even had a crash landing, then I can understand why the tail was ripped off and leaning against that wall.

Hopefully no crew was injured.

Posted: 5/2/2011 11:56:34 AM EDT

[#13]

They said they had mechanical failure and a HARD LANDING. I guess thats technically a crash landing. If they had to autorotate in I wouldnt doubt they hit a wall or something else in the compound.

But no casualties due to the copter mishap. They blew it in place.

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:01:58 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3991/7c634785915a.jpg

If that's the picture of it, why is there damage to the rear rotor blades that is consistent with impact during rotation? If they blew it, there wouldn't be bent blades like that.

I'm also not sure how the tail got into that position if they blew it up with C4.

Looks more like a crash scene to me. Are you sure that is the picture of it?

Tail rotor will still turn during auto-rotation. And you don't have much of a choice of landing site in an auto-rotation.

So there was a crash landing? My understanding was they couldn't get it to spool back up after landing and then blew it up and flew out on the other 3 birds. So I was under the impression that it would have been sitting on relatively flat ground and blown up with C4.

But if it landed hard or even had a crash landing, then I can understand why the tail was ripped off and leaning against that wall.

Hopefully no crew was injured.

The Blackhawk has 3 engines, 2 mains and an APU. The starter is hydraulic reservoir which is used to spool the APU, bleed air off the APU then is used to start the mains. If the hydraulic pressure is dumped by a failed start, it takes a good bit of manual pump action to recharge the reservoir in order to start the APU.

If they couldn't get hydraulic pressure to build, they would have blown the bird in place, the explosion could have thrown the tail against the wall. The blades would have turned due to this speed.

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:02:59 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
ABC News reported it was a CH-47.

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:03:55 PM EDT

[#16]

Get to da choppa

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:06:18 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
They said they had mechanical failure and a HARD LANDING. I guess thats technically a crash landing. If they had to autorotate in I wouldnt doubt they hit a wall or something else in the compound.

But no casualties due to the copter mishap. They blew it in place.

Green light, Kilo one one, green light.......

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:12:14 PM EDT

[#18]

That doesn't look like a Blackhawk tail section.

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:16:29 PM EDT

[#19]

Here's some more photos of the Pakistanis hauling away wreckage

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:17:58 PM EDT

[#20]

Damn, shoulda hit that with a 500lb bomb before they got it.

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:19:25 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/3991/7c634785915a.jpg

If that's the picture of it, why is there damage to the rear rotor blades that is consistent with impact during rotation? If they blew it, there wouldn't be bent blades like that.

I'm also not sure how the tail got into that position if they blew it up with C4.

Looks more like a crash scene to me. Are you sure that is the picture of it?

Tail rotor will still turn during auto-rotation. And you don't have much of a choice of landing site in an auto-rotation.

So there was a crash landing? My understanding was they couldn't get it to spool back up after landing and then blew it up and flew out on the other 3 birds. So I was under the impression that it would have been sitting on relatively flat ground and blown up with C4.

But if it landed hard or even had a crash landing, then I can understand why the tail was ripped off and leaning against that wall.

Hopefully no crew was injured.

The Blackhawk has 3 engines, 2 mains and an APU. The starter is hydraulic reservoir which is used to spool the APU, bleed air off the APU then is used to start the mains. If the hydraulic pressure is dumped by a failed start, it takes a good bit of manual pump action to recharge the reservoir in order to start the APU.

If they couldn't get hydraulic pressure to build, they would have blown the bird in place, the explosion could have thrown the tail against the wall. The blades would have turned due to this speed.

keith, your width and breadth of knowledge is amazing.

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:20:48 PM EDT

[#22]

During the famous Son Tay Raid in North Vietnam, a helicopter was deliberately crashed inside the walls for surprise and to open the doors for the other raiders. The walls at the Bin Laden compound were tall with barbed wire on top, plus the helicopter is vunerable when fast roping out. Looks like history repeats itself.
Great job Seal Team Six.

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:22:17 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Damn, shoulda hit that with a 500lb bomb before they got it.

From the pictures above, I spot at least 4 excellent targets AFTER they got to it....

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Posted: 5/2/2011 12:23:59 PM EDT

[#24]

The Navy doesn't have Ch46's any more. MH60S Seahawk is most likely the Helo that crashed, not Blackhawk.... Army fly's those. lol

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:28:15 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

That doesn't look like a Blackhawk tail section.

Sure does, look:

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:38:30 PM EDT

[#26]

The MH-60 Crash At Bin Laden’s House

http://defensetech.org/2011/05/02/the-mh-60-crash-at-bin-ladens-house/

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:45:46 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
The green one.

Nope. The black one.

NSDQ

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:50:31 PM EDT

[#28]

Quick question from an outsider here, why did they use a NAVY SEAL team to go in and not Delta force or Green Berrets? Are SEAL teams better trained or was I always wrong in the assumption that D Force and Green Berrets were the door kickers, I always thought SEALs were good at infiltrating from the water / subs and then doing bad things to bad people in coastal regions or areas where the Army did not have any assets near by, but in this case I thought the US Army would have had bases in or close to Pakiatan and they flew in anyway, if based there like I assumed they could have flown in from there, I don't know, I wish I had a better understanding of which SF force does what and who they were.

Good job anyway, would love to see more pics and video of the event, is it possible that the raiders would have had video recording of this event, or is that far fetched?

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:54:09 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quick question from an outsider here, why did they use a NAVY SEAL team to go in and not Delta force or Green Berrets? Are SEAL teams better trained or was I always wrong in the assumption that D Force and Green Berrets were the door kickers, I always thought SEALs were good at infiltrating from the water / subs and then doing bad things to bad people in coastal regions or areas where the Army did not have any assets near by, but in this case I thought the US Army would have had bases in or close to Pakiatan and they flew in anyway, if based there like I assumed they could have flown in from there, I don't know, I wish I had a better understanding of which SF force does what and who they were.

Good job anyway, would love to see more pics and video of the event, is it possible that the raiders would have had video recording of this event, or is that far fetched?

JSOC includes Delta's and DEVGRU, I'm guessing both groups were there

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:54:28 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
The Navy doesn't have Ch46's any more. MH60S Seahawk is most likely the Helo that crashed, not Blackhawk.... Army fly's those. lol

Highly doubt they were Navy pilots. 160th SOAR flies the 60's, 47's, and 6's, last I knew.

Posted: 5/2/2011 12:55:09 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

That doesn't look like a Blackhawk tail section.

Sure does, look: http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSczXK2Q4GhDE1FzMrO9VLxxxrRFPVhkzEc9ws1K2rNaRtBEWgP

The crash pic looks like the tail section has to separate vertical stabilizers coming off of it. The Blackhawk has one complete stabilizer.

Posted: 5/2/2011 1:01:59 PM EDT

[#32]

Apologize if there is already another thread on this, but does any one believe this was actually a mechanical failure?

I have no doubt that it was some kind of mechanical failure... ...due to impact with kinetic objects or CFIT.

I hope the real story comes out. Truth is always more interesting than fiction.

Posted: 5/2/2011 1:02:21 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The Navy doesn't have Ch46's any more. MH60S Seahawk is most likely the Helo that crashed, not Blackhawk.... Army fly's those. lol

Highly doubt they were Navy pilots. 160th SOAR flies the 60's, 47's, and 6's, last I knew.

There have been multiple stories these were Army aircraft.

Posted: 5/2/2011 1:04:36 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:

That doesn't look like a Blackhawk tail section.

Sure does, look: http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSczXK2Q4GhDE1FzMrO9VLxxxrRFPVhkzEc9ws1K2rNaRtBEWgP

The crash pic looks like the tail section has to separate vertical stabilizers coming off of it. The Blackhawk has one complete stabilizer.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/sikorsky-uh60-blackhawk_2.jpg

The post crash photo shows perspective from front to rear.

Posted: 5/2/2011 1:07:23 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:

That doesn't look like a Blackhawk tail section.

Sure does, look: http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSczXK2Q4GhDE1FzMrO9VLxxxrRFPVhkzEc9ws1K2rNaRtBEWgP

The crash pic looks like the tail section has to separate vertical stabilizers coming off of it. The Blackhawk has one complete stabilizer.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/sikorsky-uh60-blackhawk_2.jpg

It looks like the tail of the 60 to me. Depending how the crash sequence happened, it could have split the horizontal stab.

Posted: 5/2/2011 1:09:18 PM EDT

[#36]

Might have been destroyed with thermite grenades too.

Posted: 5/2/2011 1:10:05 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The Navy doesn't have Ch46's any more. MH60S Seahawk is most likely the Helo that crashed, not Blackhawk.... Army fly's those. lol

Highly doubt they were Navy pilots. 160th SOAR flies the 60's, 47's, and 6's, last I knew.

There have been multiple stories these were Army aircraft.

Could be, I really don't know who was fragged to fly the mission. Either way, it's a good kill.

Posted: 5/2/2011 1:10:43 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
The Navy doesn't have Ch46's any more. MH60S Seahawk is most likely the Helo that crashed, not Blackhawk.... Army fly's those. lol

You know the Army is the one providing chopper transport to the SEALs right??

NSDQ!

Posted: 5/2/2011 1:12:57 PM EDT

[#39]

more likely blacked out

Posted: 5/2/2011 1:14:39 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
keith, your width and breadth of knowledge is amazing.

You should see his stakeout-fu, Texas style

Posted: 5/2/2011 1:18:52 PM EDT

[#41]

Everyone's missing the obvious. One of the team members dropped a glock when they where fast roping out and the following explosion downed the aircraft.

Posted: 5/2/2011 2:02:36 PM EDT

[#42]

That is a UH-60 tail. The CH-47 has no vertical stabilizer, so it can't be one of those.

The top of the fin is pointing towards the camera and facing upwards. If you look closely you can see the tail drive shaft hanging over the wall to the right. If it was from a CH-47 it would having a gear box hanging off of it right about there.

Posted: 5/2/2011 2:03:59 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Everyone's missing the obvious. One of the team members dropped a glock when they where fast roping out and the following explosion downed the aircraft.

Bullshit. Not even SEALs are Tier 1 enough for Glocks.

I <3 Glocks. Don't hate.

Posted: 5/2/2011 2:05:26 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The Navy doesn't have Ch46's any more. MH60S Seahawk is most likely the Helo that crashed, not Blackhawk.... Army fly's those. lol

You know the Army is the one providing chopper transport to the SEALs right??

NSDQ!

Could be, could also be a Navy HSC Squadron... I really don't know who took them to the fight, if it was the Army, then cool, if it was the Navy fine, hell if it was the Pakastani Army, congratulations. lol, either way they got the job done!

Posted: 5/2/2011 2:06:51 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The Navy doesn't have Ch46's any more. MH60S Seahawk is most likely the Helo that crashed, not Blackhawk.... Army fly's those. lol

You know the Army is the one providing chopper transport to the SEALs right??

NSDQ!

I dont think it has been confirmed by anyone offical which team went in. So this is all speculation.

Posted: 5/2/2011 2:07:00 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Everyone's missing the obvious. One of the team members dropped a glock when they where fast roping out and the following explosion downed the aircraft.

First documented use of WMD since Saddam gassed his people?

Posted: 5/2/2011 2:07:47 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The Navy doesn't have Ch46's any more. MH60S Seahawk is most likely the Helo that crashed, not Blackhawk.... Army fly's those. lol

You know the Army is the one providing chopper transport to the SEALs right??

NSDQ!

I dont think it has been confirmed by anyone offical which team went in. So this is all speculation.

it has been unnamed officials

Posted: 5/2/2011 2:21:06 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The Navy doesn't have Ch46's any more. MH60S Seahawk is most likely the Helo that crashed, not Blackhawk.... Army fly's those. lol

You know the Army is the one providing chopper transport to the SEALs right??

NSDQ!

Could be, could also be a Navy HSC Squadron... I really don't know who took them to the fight, if it was the Army, then cool, if it was the Navy fine, hell if it was the Pakastani Army, congratulations. lol, either way they got the job done!

I would bet this was purely a 160th SOAR delivery and exfiltration.