BREAKING Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head point blank - Page 95

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - BREAKING Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head point blank (Page 95 of 101)

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:26:36 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:

They have succeeded in framing this to their advantage. They have done so in such a way that in order to refute that, you get dragged down into political thoery where people fundamentally disagree.

The Mein Kampf reference means he was Conservative. Right. And as soon as you point out Hitler was a socialist and used socialism to estasblish totalitarianism you lose. The programming doesn't allow them to even consider such a thing. The media would need to report all these inconvienent facts about who this guy was. Our media doesn't report facts anymore.

At this point, Keith Olberman could go on a shooting spree and they could spin him into a Tea Partier.

History not your strong point? Hitler was not a socialist. He was a fascist. Facists believe in the private ownership of industry, but government exerts a strong influence over industry. Fascism is generally anti-trade union and Hitler banned trade unions except for the official German Labour Front. Hitler was anti-socialist and strongly anti-communist.

The name of his political party was just a name. Do you believe that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a Democratic Nation? (Hint: You might better know this country as NORTH KOREA).

This guy is a schizophrenic wingnut. His political leanings are no more important than his taste in food.

Blimey - the first American I have met on here who gets the whole Hitler/Nazi/Socialism thing, and can effectively articulate the point.

Honestly... well done that man.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

REALLY? HITLER WAS RIGHT WING? REALLY? I do NOT get how the hell people can keep saying, and believing this to be true. Research your history a little bit, then come back and we can talk. k? thanks.

They say this because arfcom is a microcosom of the greater population, and behave accordingly. They say what they think "sounds cool" or what they heard in the MSM. Actually knowing what you talk about isn't a big priority.

Public education at work.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:27:09 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:

They have succeeded in framing this to their advantage. They have done so in such a way that in order to refute that, you get dragged down into political thoery where people fundamentally disagree.

The Mein Kampf reference means he was Conservative. Right. And as soon as you point out Hitler was a socialist and used socialism to estasblish totalitarianism you lose. The programming doesn't allow them to even consider such a thing. The media would need to report all these inconvienent facts about who this guy was. Our media doesn't report facts anymore.

At this point, Keith Olberman could go on a shooting spree and they could spin him into a Tea Partier.

History not your strong point? Hitler was not a socialist. He was a fascist. Facists believe in the private ownership of industry, but government exerts a strong influence over industry. Fascism is generally anti-trade union and Hitler banned trade unions except for the official German Labour Front. Hitler was anti-socialist and strongly anti-communist.

The name of his political party was just a name. Do you believe that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a Democratic Nation? (Hint: You might better know this country as NORTH KOREA).

This guy is a schizophrenic wingnut. His political leanings are no more important than his taste in food.

Blimey - the first American I have met on here who gets the whole Hitler/Nazi/Socialism thing, and can effectively articulate the point.

Honestly... well done that man.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

Hitler was Left wing, National Socialist Party? What part of small government was Hitler? You guys and the Hitler right wing stuff is getting so old. Can you share with us what made Hitler Right Wing? Was it because he was a mean mean guy?

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:27:15 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is getting silly.

I'm going to respectfully bow out of the discussions in this thread.

I've been reading and contributing to this thread because I'm astounded at the respose from the media and the political rhetoric of some very rabid and blinkard people. It's s situation we have faced many times in the UK where a tragedy happens and the misguded turn and demand puinishment of the many for the actions of one, but the scale and savagery of this one is quite shocking. I also wanted to offer some support to a country I view as a friend. I hope you guys can see past the crap and recognise that the truth will always come out.

Some of the discussions seem to have arfcomers turning on onanother and I don't like to see it under these circumstances. Understandable admittedly, given the emotive nature of the way it is being handled in some quarters, and no doubt tensions are running high, but I'd prefer not to see fellow arfcomers succumbing to their frustration at the liberal media.

I'm very sorry to hear about what has happened in Tucson. I'm genuinely disgusted that someone would target a democratically elected representative of the people, and I'm terribly saddened by the loss of life, injuries and terrible anguish caused by the actions of a lunatic.

In the meantime, my thoughts go out to the victims and their loved ones...... I hope that the injured make a speedy recovery and those that have lost loved ones find peace in the fond memories they hold dear. may those no longer with us Rest in Peace.

Goodnight fellas and keep your heads....... let the looney left defeat themselves.

.

you rock funky

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:27:19 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
This is getting silly.

I'm going to respectfully bow out of the discussions in this thread.

I've been reading and contributing to this thread because I'm astounded at the respose from the media and the political rhetoric of some very rabid and blinkard people. It's s situation we have faced many times in the UK where a tragedy happens and the misguded turn and demand puinishment of the many for the actions of one, but the scale and savagery of this one is quite shocking. I also wanted to offer some support to a country I view as a friend. I hope you guys can see past the crap and recognise that the truth will always come out.

Some of the discussions seem to have arfcomers turning on onanother and I don't like to see it under these circumstances. Understandable admittedly, given the emotive nature of the way it is being handled in some quarters, and no doubt tensions are running high, but I'd prefer not to see fellow arfcomers succumbing to their frustration at the liberal media.

I'm very sorry to hear about what has happened in Tucson. I'm genuinely disgusted that someone would target a democratically elected representative of the people, and I'm terribly saddened by the loss of life, injuries and terrible anguish caused by the actions of a lunatic.

In the meantime, my thoughts go out to the victims and their loved ones...... I hope that the injured make a speedy recovery and those that have lost loved ones find peace in the fond memories they hold dear. may those no longer with us Rest in Peace.

Goodnight fellas and keep your heads....... let the looney left defeat themselves.

.

good to have you aboard and thank you Sir

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:27:32 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is getting silly.

I'm going to respectfully bow out of the discussions in this thread.

I've been reading and contributing to this thread because I'm astounded at the respose from the media and the political rhetoric of some very rabid and blinkard people. It's s situation we have faced many times in the UK where a tragedy happens and the misguded turn and demand puinishment of the many for the actions of one, but the scale and savagery of this one is quite shocking. I also wanted to offer some support to a country I view as a friend. I hope you guys can see past the crap and recognise that the truth will always come out.

Some of the discussions seem to have arfcomers turning on onanother and I don't like to see it under these circumstances. Understandable admittedly, given the emotive nature of the way it is being handled in some quarters, and no doubt tensions are running high, but I'd prefer not to see fellow arfcomers succumbing to their frustration at the liberal media.

I'm very sorry to hear about what has happened in Tucson. I'm genuinely disgusted that someone would target a democratically elected representative of the people, and I'm terribly saddened by the loss of life, injuries and terrible anguish caused by the actions of a lunatic.

In the meantime, my thoughts go out to the victims and their loved ones...... I hope that the injured make a speedy recovery and those that have lost loved ones find peace in the fond memories they hold dear. may those no longer with us Rest in Peace.

Goodnight fellas and keep your heads....... let the looney left defeat themselves.

.

you rock funky

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:27:42 PM EDT

[#6]

I find this whole thing sad and alarming.

Sad for the people who died and their families.

And alarmed at the full-on media maelstrom.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:27:55 PM EDT

[#7]

There's something here.

74YO man and a woman didn't stop this crazy man alone.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:29:23 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Carolyn McCarthy readies gun control bill

One of the fiercest gun-control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html

Yeah... They're not burning the midnight oil. She's already got some canned shit ready for contingency.

what are the chances she introduces something that will pass ? I amagine another AWB ? or atleast something restricting "hi cap" mags

Republicans control the House, it's not going to happen.

I agree with this, except for the run-on sentence.

well hope you guys are right... I dont trust the R's any more then the D's to sell us out

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:29:47 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So it turns out, the big story being minimized - is that a regular guy who was carrying a gun ran in and helped keep the shooter down. If that guy didn't have his carry gun he probably wouldn't have engaged the shooter and who knows what would have happened.

Turns out, guys like us saved the day after all - but the woman who grabbed the magazine is getting the credit, and doing damage. No wonder the Sheriff's memory was foggy - but he considered HER the hero.

the way i heard it he came after two other [one being the woman] had already taken the guy to the ground and had the weapon away from him and he didnt pull his weapon.
thats what i remember from him...good he was there but he didnt exactly save the day as would have been fantastic

THIS IS IMPORTANT FOLKS!!

What you remember sounds accurate, but if there were two holding the shooter down, and one being a woman - the shooter was still a serious threat, and Mr. CCW entered an active shooter area to help secure.

There was early talk of a second guy who possibly engaged the shooter - this was during the confusion of early reports. When it was all said and done - the only one who's said a concealed carry guy was involved - is the guy himself being interviewed by Blitzer on CNN.

The media doesn't want the CCW guy to have a place in this story, or they would have said "gun owner helps detain mad gunman". Didn't fit the agenda, he was cropped from the picture.

I'm putting him back into the story, where he belongs. If we don't have guys like him willing to intervene when SHTF, who else do we look to while LE is on the way?

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/01/08/exp.az.zamudio.witness.cnn?hpt=T1

Joe Zamudio

If you haven't watched THIS video, you're never going to get the real story of the value of citizens carrying.

Thanks for the link, it was well worth watching. The citizen's militia responded AGAIN to help end a tragedy. The fact that the guy went toward the sound of gunfire is amazing. Did anyone interview the first guy that tackled the perp?

I've typed up a rough transcript of the initial interview with Wolf Blitzer:

[joining us now is Joe Zamudio, he's an eyewitness]
[tell us where you were when you came upon this meet and greet]

"It was just a normal Saturday, I woke up and had breakfast with my mom, I was planning on watching football, I didn't plan on this horrible thing, I walked out and went into the Walgreens to buy cigarettes and inside of the counter I heard the gunshots, it was like a fireworks almost it was pop pop pop like that, and I said to the girl behind the counter is that is that because i was going to say is that fireworks but I knew it was a gun I've been raised around guns my whole life and I knew it was a gun, and I carry a gun for my own protection and I had it with me so I ran back outside and there was a man with a camera who said 'shooter shooter get down' and I ran towards the noise and that was after the last gunshot, at that point the other gentleman you spoke with the other gentleman and a lady were wrestling with I don't know what his name is, the guy, the shooter"

[so you ran towards the suspect]

"yeah, they had already taken the gun form him and he was struggling with them, I went over there I pinned him down to the ground I waited with them until the police came, it was just ridiculous, the gun was empty, when you finish firing an semiautomatic like that the top stays back and it was cocked back, it was locked open and he was out of bullets, but he had another extended magazine that he was trying to load into the gun that the woman was able to wrestle away form him, and he was gonna keep shooting, he was not over he just ran out of bullets"

[how long were you on him]

"oh I don't know not more than five minutes, probably 'bout like three or four, it seemed like a really long time at first but I checked my phone afterwards 'cause I was calling 911 and it couldn't have been more than five minutes, three minutes, four minutes maybe, the first sheriff's department officer showed up and when he got there we said 'we got him he's right here he's the shooter' he came put him in cuffs, almost immediately there were two or three more deputies there, they searched him in my presence, I saw them pull two more magazines out of his pockets and a pocket knife, I mean he was ready for war, he was not playing around"

[did he say anything while you were holding him down]

"the only thing he said was 'my arm ow my arm' they had his arm wrenched back which I'm real glad I didn't know he had a knife in his pocket I mean I had a gun and if he had been reloaded or something I would have pulled it on him but I wasn't trying to go that place and scare anyone if it wasn't necessary, but I didn't know he had a knife on him I mean he could have hurt us there holding him down, it was just scary, and he said 'ow my arm' but we didn't care we just kept holding him there, and then his facial expression was expressionless, it was blank, it was callous almost."

His account meshes with that of the first gentleman to tackle the shooter, retired Colonel Bill Badger, age 74 (who was grazed in the head before he had a chance to attack the shooter after the gun ran dry):

http://video.foxnews.com/#/v/4490356/retired-colonel-helped-tackle-shooting-suspect/

Thanks

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:32:59 PM EDT

[#10]

Perhaps we need a separate thread highlighting Joe Zamudio's role in this?

If we don't expose his good work, who else will?

Not me, someone else feel free to start...

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:35:16 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Carolyn McCarthy readies gun control bill

One of the fiercest gun-control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html

Yeah... They're not burning the midnight oil. She's already got some canned shit ready for contingency.

what are the chances she introduces something that will pass ? I amagine another AWB ? or atleast something restricting "hi cap" mags

Republicans control the House, it's not going to happen.

and Reagan signed a machine gun ban into law because he thought it'd be deemed unconstitutional and repealed.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:35:29 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Perhaps we need a separate thread highlighting Joe Zamudio's role in this?

If we don't expose his good work, who else will?

Not me, someone else feel free to start...

I second that with honorable mention for Bill Badger as first responder .

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:35:40 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is getting silly.

I'm going to respectfully bow out of the discussions in this thread.

I've been reading and contributing to this thread because I'm astounded at the respose from the media and the political rhetoric of some very rabid and blinkard people. It's s situation we have faced many times in the UK where a tragedy happens and the misguded turn and demand puinishment of the many for the actions of one, but the scale and savagery of this one is quite shocking. I also wanted to offer some support to a country I view as a friend. I hope you guys can see past the crap and recognise that the truth will always come out.

Some of the discussions seem to have arfcomers turning on onanother and I don't like to see it under these circumstances. Understandable admittedly, given the emotive nature of the way it is being handled in some quarters, and no doubt tensions are running high, but I'd prefer not to see fellow arfcomers succumbing to their frustration at the liberal media.

I'm very sorry to hear about what has happened in Tucson. I'm genuinely disgusted that someone would target a democratically elected representative of the people, and I'm terribly saddened by the loss of life, injuries and terrible anguish caused by the actions of a lunatic.

In the meantime, my thoughts go out to the victims and their loved ones...... I hope that the injured make a speedy recovery and those that have lost loved ones find peace in the fond memories they hold dear. may those no longer with us Rest in Peace.

Goodnight fellas and keep your heads....... let the looney left defeat themselves.

.

Yep, and another -

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:35:44 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Carolyn McCarthy readies gun control bill

One of the fiercest gun-control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html

Yeah... They're not burning the midnight oil. She's already got some canned shit ready for contingency.

what are the chances she introduces something that will pass ? I amagine another AWB ? or atleast something restricting "hi cap" mags

Republicans control the House, it's not going to happen.

I agree with this, except for the run-on sentence.

well hope you guys are right... I dont trust the R's any more then the D's to sell us out

Your point is well taken, but the Republicans know which way the wind is blowing, and they're looking to 2012 as well.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:36:03 PM EDT

[#15]

When I heard of this, I immediately thought, here we go again!

Prayers sent out for the dead, injured & their families.

Hessian-1

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:36:35 PM EDT

[#16]

Sorry damned dbl tap!

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:40:06 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Perhaps we need a separate thread highlighting Joe Zamudio's role in this?

If we don't expose his good work, who else will?

Not me, someone else feel free to start...

I second that with honorable mention for Bill Badger as first responder .

How about EastcARstle take that - he did the transcript of the video - that was like homework.

EastcARstle - start a thread about Joe's role as a CCW actually saving the day, and being the first armed person to intervene - and it's being buried by the gunshy MSM.

ETA - it sounds like within 30 seconds of the first shot, Joe was on top of the shooter, with gun in concealment - ready to protect.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:41:10 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:

They have succeeded in framing this to their advantage. They have done so in such a way that in order to refute that, you get dragged down into political theory where people fundamentally disagree.

The Mein Kampf reference means he was Conservative. Right. And as soon as you point out Hitler was a socialist and used socialism to establish totalitarianism you lose. The programming doesn't allow them to even consider such a thing. The media would need to report all these inconvenient facts about who this guy was. Our media doesn't report facts anymore.

At this point, Keith Olberman could go on a shooting spree and they could spin him into a Tea Partier.

History not your strong point? Hitler was not a socialist. He was a fascist. Fascists believe in the private ownership of industry, but government exerts a strong influence over industry. Fascism is generally anti-trade union and Hitler banned trade unions except for the official German Labour Front. Hitler was anti-socialist and strongly anti-communist.

The name of his political party was just a name. Do you believee that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a Democratic Nation? (Hint: You might better know this country as NORTH KOREA).

This guy is a schizophrenic wingnut. His political leanings are no more important than his taste in food.

Blimey - the first American I have met on here who gets the whole Hitler/Nazi/Socialism thing, and can effectively articulate the point.

Honestly... well done that man.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

Hitler was Left wing, National Socialist Party? What part of small government was Hitler? You guys and the Hitler right wing stuff is getting so old. Can you share with us what made Hitler Right Wing? Was it because he was a mean mean guy?

Exactly. This notion of Hitler being "right-wing" is one of the most fallacious arguments ever to become metastasized in our history lexicon. I'll make it simple for all you DU trolls ...

1. Right wing means being in favor of limited government, allowing the free market to decide the means of production, and only injecting government oversight to adjudicate legal conflict

2. Left wing means being in favor of a strong overreaching government, whether the government merely exerts comprehensive force over private production, or overtly controls the means of production.

3. Nazism was at it's very core a system of overtly strong overreaching government, injecting itself into every aspect of German life.

4. Ergo, Nazism was/is a leftist phenomena.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:42:07 PM EDT

[#19]

TUCSON, Ariz. – At an event roughly three years ago, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords took a question from Jared Loughner, the man accused of trying to assassinate her and killing six other people. According to two of his high school friends the question was essentially this: "What is government if words have no meaning?"

Loughner was angry about her response — she read the question and had nothing to say.

"He was like ... 'What do you think of these people who are working for the government and they can't describe what they do?'" one friend told The Associated Press on Sunday. "He did not like government officials, how they spoke. Like they were just trying to cover up some conspiracy."

Both friends spoke on condition of anonymity, saying they wanted to avoid the publicity surrounding the case. To them, the question was classic Jared: confrontational, nonlinear and obsessed with how words create reality.

The friends' comments paint a picture bolstered by other former classmates and Loughner's own Internet postings: that of a social outcast with nihilistic, almost indecipherable beliefs steeped in mistrust and paranoia.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110110/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_gunman

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:45:10 PM EDT

[#20]

Here is what we'll probably find out long after any knee jerk legislation is proposed/passed. Just a theory based on the reports and personal interactions with someone with schizophrenia.

Loughner is unstable and alienated and sees his lefty politics as his identity. He probably had an interaction with Giffords or her staff that didn't go as he had planned back in 07. Maybe he tried to volunteer or work for her campaign and was sent a "thanks but no thanks" letter. It would also explain why his twitter friend says he met her and said she was "stupid and unintelligent."

As his schizophrenia worsens she's unfortunately caught up in his delusions and she (and the .gov by proxy) becomes the cause of all of his problems and sense of oppression. She's why he's having problems at his community college and why he gets rejected by the army (more rejection by authority).

This leads him to cling to any anti govt. ideology regardless of it being left or right. Doesn't matter what it is It just has to fit in with his sense of being persecuted along with delusions of grandeur. How he was going to create a new currency and style of grammar. He has to be for anything she's against and vice versa. At this point we might as well be looking into the political leanings of David Berkowitz's dog because we're not dealing with a rational world view.

My guess is her re-election set him off. He bought the gun in November and since she's still in office his persecution will just continue. She gets sworn in and he loses it.

He should still get the needle but crazy has way more to do with this guy than politics. Just a theory.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:48:07 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Here is what we'll probably find out long after any knee jerk legislation is proposed/passed. Just a theory based on the reports and personal interactions with someone with schizophrenia.

Loughner is unstable and alienated and sees his lefty politics as his identity. He probably had an interaction with Giffords or her staff that didn't go as he had planned back in 07. Maybe he tried to volunteer or work for her campaign and was sent a "thanks but no thanks" letter. It would also explain why his twitter friend says he met her and said she was "stupid and unintelligent."

As his schizophrenia worsens she's unfortunately caught up in his delusions and she (and the .gov by proxy) becomes the cause of all of his problems and sense of oppression. She's why he's having problems at his community college and why he gets rejected by the army (more rejection by authority).

This leads him to cling to any anti govt. ideology regardless of it being left or right. Doesn't matter what it is It just has to fit in with his sense of being persecuted along with delusions of grandeur. How he was going to create a new currency and style of grammar. He has to be for anything she's against and vice versa. At this point we might as well be looking into the political leanings of David Berkowitz's dog because we're not dealing with a rational world view.

My guess is her re-election set him off. He bought the gun in November and since she's still in office his persecution will just continue. She gets sworn in and he loses it.

He should still get the needle but crazy has way more to do with this guy than politics. Just a theory.

Thatt's a very well written theory. It makes more sense than some of the other responses so far.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:49:50 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
they keep saying "31" round mags....??

33?

The Glock 18 mags are 31 rounds, but most come with the +2 extension/baseplate, even those from the factory. So they're really 33 rounds.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:50:51 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:

wait, so they were the 19 round mags (17+2)? Why do we keep hearing about 30 round mags then?

They were 31/33rd. model 18 mags.

ahh, thanks for clearing the confusion, didn't know there were different base plates for the 30+ round mags.

You can use the base plate for any of the mags, but it's most common with the 31 rounders.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:51:58 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Carolyn McCarthy readies gun control bill

One of the fiercest gun-control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html

Yeah... They're not burning the midnight oil. She's already got some canned shit ready for contingency.

what are the chances she introduces something that will pass ? I amagine another AWB ? or atleast something restricting "hi cap" mags

Republicans control the House, it's not going to happen.

and Reagan signed a machine gun ban into law because he thought it'd be deemed unconstitutional and repealed.

Check the history of gun control legislation for the past 100 years, who introduced it, which party had control of the house, and voting records for those bills, and get back to me. All the herp-derp "They're all the same!!!" bullshit doesn't change the facts.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:53:08 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
1. Right wing means being in favor of limited government, allowing the free market to decide the means of production, and only injecting government oversight to adjudicate legal conflict
2. Left wing means being in favor of a strong overreaching government, whether the government merely exerts comprehensive force over private production, or overtly controls the means of production.
3. Nazism was at it's very core a system of overtly strong overreaching government, injecting itself into every aspect of German life.

You aren't as smart as you think.

Not only are you incorrect, you presuppose a discussion of the American tradition of politics. Right and left wing mean different things in different places.

For instance, in Europe no one questions government involvement in people's lives. That is a given. They focus only on what the government chooses to do.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:54:05 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Here is what we'll probably find out long after any knee jerk legislation is proposed/passed. Just a theory based on the reports and personal interactions with someone with schizophrenia.

Loughner is unstable and alienated and sees his lefty politics as his identity. He probably had an interaction with Giffords or her staff that didn't go as he had planned back in 07. Maybe he tried to volunteer or work for her campaign and was sent a "thanks but no thanks" letter. It would also explain why his twitter friend says he met her and said she was "stupid and unintelligent."

As his schizophrenia worsens she's unfortunately caught up in his delusions and she (and the .gov by proxy) becomes the cause of all of his problems and sense of oppression. She's why he's having problems at his community college and why he gets rejected by the army (more rejection by authority).

This leads him to cling to any anti govt. ideology regardless of it being left or right. Doesn't matter what it is It just has to fit in with his sense of being persecuted along with delusions of grandeur. How he was going to create a new currency and style of grammar. He has to be for anything she's against and vice versa. At this point we might as well be looking into the political leanings of David Berkowitz's dog because we're not dealing with a rational world view.

My guess is her re-election set him off. He bought the gun in November and since she's still in office his persecution will just continue. She gets sworn in and he loses it.

He should still get the needle but crazy has way more to do with this guy than politics. Just a theory.

Interesting theory and analysis. Had any training in psychology/psychiatry?

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:55:55 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Here is what we'll probably find out long after any knee jerk legislation is proposed/passed. Just a theory based on the reports and personal interactions with someone with schizophrenia.

Loughner is unstable and alienated and sees his lefty politics as his identity. He probably had an interaction with Giffords or her staff that didn't go as he had planned back in 07. Maybe he tried to volunteer or work for her campaign and was sent a "thanks but no thanks" letter. It would also explain why his twitter friend says he met her and said she was "stupid and unintelligent."

As his schizophrenia worsens she's unfortunately caught up in his delusions and she (and the .gov by proxy) becomes the cause of all of his problems and sense of oppression. She's why he's having problems at his community college and why he gets rejected by the army (more rejection by authority).

This leads him to cling to any anti govt. ideology regardless of it being left or right. Doesn't matter what it is It just has to fit in with his sense of being persecuted along with delusions of grandeur. How he was going to create a new currency and style of grammar. He has to be for anything she's against and vice versa. At this point we might as well be looking into the political leanings of David Berkowitz's dog because we're not dealing with a rational world view.

My guess is her re-election set him off. He bought the gun in November and since she's still in office his persecution will just continue. She gets sworn in and he loses it.

He should still get the needle but crazy has way more to do with this guy than politics. Just a theory.

This definitely deserves a repost.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:56:17 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Listening to this Father of a murdered daughter is heart wrenching.

Yeah I can't watch that

+1

Why bother. It's just going to make me angry.

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:57:56 PM EDT

[#29]

Joe Zamudio

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:58:26 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

1. Right wing means being in favor of limited government, allowing the free market to decide the means of production, and only injecting government oversight to adjudicate legal conflict

2. Left wing means being in favor of a strong overreaching government, whether the government merely exerts comprehensive force over private production, or overtly controls the means of production.

3. Nazism was at it's very core a system of overtly strong overreaching government, injecting itself into every aspect of German life.

You aren't as smart as you think.

Not only are you incorrect, you presuppose a discussion of the American tradition of politics. Right and left wing mean different things in different places.

For instance, in Europe no one questions government involvement in people's lives. That is a given. They focus only on what the government chooses to do.

Are you for real?

Posted: 1/9/2011 5:58:27 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
Here is what we'll probably find out long after any knee jerk legislation is proposed/passed. Just a theory based on the reports and personal interactions with someone with schizophrenia.

Loughner is unstable and alienated and sees his lefty politics as his identity. He probably had an interaction with Giffords or her staff that didn't go as he had planned back in 07. Maybe he tried to volunteer or work for her campaign and was sent a "thanks but no thanks" letter. It would also explain why his twitter friend says he met her and said she was "stupid and unintelligent."

As his schizophrenia worsens she's unfortunately caught up in his delusions and she (and the .gov by proxy) becomes the cause of all of his problems and sense of oppression. She's why he's having problems at his community college and why he gets rejected by the army (more rejection by authority).

This leads him to cling to any anti govt. ideology regardless of it being left or right. Doesn't matter what it is It just has to fit in with his sense of being persecuted along with delusions of grandeur. How he was going to create a new currency and style of grammar. He has to be for anything she's against and vice versa. At this point we might as well be looking into the political leanings of David Berkowitz's dog because we're not dealing with a rational world view.

My guess is her re-election set him off. He bought the gun in November and since she's still in office his persecution will just continue. She gets sworn in and he loses it.

He should still get the needle but crazy has way more to do with this guy than politics. Just a theory.

WoW. You may have just nailed this guy to the tee...

The only thing is, is that even if thats true the left wing MSM and ALL the blogger's wont let that stick. They NEED it to be the RIGHT's fault, no matter what. They are all going to try real hard for that to happen.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:00:35 PM EDT

[#32]

I made the mistake of reading the thread on this over at a local site
forgot that most of the active posters there are libtards

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:01:13 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Perhaps we need a separate thread highlighting Joe Zamudio's role in this?

If we don't expose his good work, who else will?

Not me, someone else feel free to start...

I second that with honorable mention for Bill Badger as first responder .

How about EastcARstle take that - he did the transcript of the video - that was like homework.

EastcARstle - start a thread about Joe's role as a CCW actually saving the day, and being the first armed person to intervene - and it's being buried by the gunshy MSM.

ETA - it sounds like within 30 seconds of the first shot, Joe was on top of the shooter, with gun in concealment - ready to protect.

Great idea - just took care of it:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1135538

Everyone, please keep your bickering & politicking out of that thread. Thanks.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:02:14 PM EDT

[#34]

Its all a very sad story indeed.

But if we have one or two more situations like this concerning a politician. Dem and Rep alike will ban anything and everything out of self preservation. It would happen swiftly and we would have no chance to fight any knee-jerk legislation.

Prayers to the family's of the dead and wounded.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:05:17 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
1. Right wing means being in favor of limited government, allowing the free market to decide the means of production, and only injecting government oversight to adjudicate legal conflict
2. Left wing means being in favor of a strong overreaching government, whether the government merely exerts comprehensive force over private production, or overtly controls the means of production.
3. Nazism was at it's very core a system of overtly strong overreaching government, injecting itself into every aspect of German life.

You aren't as smart as you think.

Not only are you incorrect, you presuppose a discussion of the American tradition of politics. Right and left wing mean different things in different places.

For instance, in Europe no one questions government involvement in people's lives. That is a given. They focus only on what the government chooses to do.

Thank you, sir. Despite the big words used in his post he has little grasp of the European political landscape and terminology of the 1920's -30's.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:07:11 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

They have succeeded in framing this to their advantage. They have done so in such a way that in order to refute that, you get dragged down into political thoery where people fundamentally disagree.

The Mein Kampf reference means he was Conservative. Right. And as soon as you point out Hitler was a socialist and used socialism to estasblish totalitarianism you lose. The programming doesn't allow them to even consider such a thing. The media would need to report all these inconvienent facts about who this guy was. Our media doesn't report facts anymore.

At this point, Keith Olberman could go on a shooting spree and they could spin him into a Tea Partier.

History not your strong point? Hitler was not a socialist. He was a fascist. Facists believe in the private ownership of industry, but government exerts a strong influence over industry. Fascism is generally anti-trade union and Hitler banned trade unions except for the official German Labour Front. Hitler was anti-socialist and strongly anti-communist.

The name of his political party was just a name. Do you believe that the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is a Democratic Nation? (Hint: You might better know this country as NORTH KOREA).

This guy is a schizophrenic wingnut. His political leanings are no more important than his taste in food.

Blimey - the first American I have met on here who gets the whole Hitler/Nazi/Socialism thing, and can effectively articulate the point.

Honestly... well done that man.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

The National Socialist was a.................. socialist.

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions."

I can call our politics communism and that doesn't make it any more communist. Just because it was called the "National Socialist Party" does not make it one.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:08:14 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here is what we'll probably find out long after any knee jerk legislation is proposed/passed. Just a theory based on the reports and personal interactions with someone with schizophrenia.

Loughner is unstable and alienated and sees his lefty politics as his identity. He probably had an interaction with Giffords or her staff that didn't go as he had planned back in 07. Maybe he tried to volunteer or work for her campaign and was sent a "thanks but no thanks" letter. It would also explain why his twitter friend says he met her and said she was "stupid and unintelligent."

As his schizophrenia worsens she's unfortunately caught up in his delusions and she (and the .gov by proxy) becomes the cause of all of his problems and sense of oppression. She's why he's having problems at his community college and why he gets rejected by the army (more rejection by authority).

This leads him to cling to any anti govt. ideology regardless of it being left or right. Doesn't matter what it is It just has to fit in with his sense of being persecuted along with delusions of grandeur. How he was going to create a new currency and style of grammar. He has to be for anything she's against and vice versa. At this point we might as well be looking into the political leanings of David Berkowitz's dog because we're not dealing with a rational world view.

My guess is her re-election set him off. He bought the gun in November and since she's still in office his persecution will just continue. She gets sworn in and he loses it.

He should still get the needle but crazy has way more to do with this guy than politics. Just a theory.

Interesting theory and analysis. Had any training in psychology/psychiatry?

Nothing outside of some basic psych classes in college. The big thing was having an ex girlfriend who developed schizophrenia just before she turned 21. She went from being normal to "Bush caused Katrina with a weather machine and I'm a descendant of Jesus so I'm destined to bring the government down" in the course of 2 months. I did a lot of reading up on schizophrenia after. She had the whole "govt. is out to get me/delusions of grandeur" thing and her ramblings and incoherent ideology sounded very similar to the things Loughlin has posted.

I could be way off with that theory but they sound an awfully lot a like. I just hope she and anyone else out there like this are able to get help before they snap. After I told her parents what was going on they didn't seem too concerned so I ejected soon after. She had just graduated so it was too late to ask her school for help.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:09:55 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

The term "Nazi," itself is short for the german words meaning "National Socialist Workers' Party."

But it was not socialist.

Not to say socialism didn't play a part but then most governments are a hodgepodge of ideas. Our own "free economy" has some nice socialistic ties in it.

His actual politics were facist and were far right.

ETA: My apologies. This tragedy does not need to be turned into a Hitlerfest. This topic apparently has been debated before, I didn't realize so many thought it was the other way. Carry on.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:11:18 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Are you for real?

I can use shorter words. If I must.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:12:51 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here is what we'll probably find out long after any knee jerk legislation is proposed/passed. Just a theory based on the reports and personal interactions with someone with schizophrenia.

Loughner is unstable and alienated and sees his lefty politics as his identity. He probably had an interaction with Giffords or her staff that didn't go as he had planned back in 07. Maybe he tried to volunteer or work for her campaign and was sent a "thanks but no thanks" letter. It would also explain why his twitter friend says he met her and said she was "stupid and unintelligent."

As his schizophrenia worsens she's unfortunately caught up in his delusions and she (and the .gov by proxy) becomes the cause of all of his problems and sense of oppression. She's why he's having problems at his community college and why he gets rejected by the army (more rejection by authority).

This leads him to cling to any anti govt. ideology regardless of it being left or right. Doesn't matter what it is It just has to fit in with his sense of being persecuted along with delusions of grandeur. How he was going to create a new currency and style of grammar. He has to be for anything she's against and vice versa. At this point we might as well be looking into the political leanings of David Berkowitz's dog because we're not dealing with a rational world view.

My guess is her re-election set him off. He bought the gun in November and since she's still in office his persecution will just continue. She gets sworn in and he loses it.

He should still get the needle but crazy has way more to do with this guy than politics. Just a theory.

Interesting theory and analysis. Had any training in psychology/psychiatry?

Nothing outside of some basic psych classes in college. The big thing was having an ex girlfriend who developed schizophrenia just before she turned 21. She went from being normal to "Bush caused Katrina with a weather machine and I'm a descendant of Jesus so I'm destined to bring the government down" in the course of 2 months. I did a lot of reading up on schizophrenia after. She had the whole "govt. is out to get me/delusions of grandeur" thing and her ramblings and incoherent ideology sounded very similar to the things Loughlin has posted.

I could be way off with that theory but they sound an awfully lot a like. I just hope she and anyone else out there like this are able to get help before they snap. After I told her parents what was going on they didn't seem too concerned so I ejected soon after. She had just graduated so it was too late to ask her school for help.

Thanks for the interesting insight.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:14:57 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here is what we'll probably find out long after any knee jerk legislation is proposed/passed. Just a theory based on the reports and personal interactions with someone with schizophrenia.

Loughner is unstable and alienated and sees his lefty politics as his identity. He probably had an interaction with Giffords or her staff that didn't go as he had planned back in 07. Maybe he tried to volunteer or work for her campaign and was sent a "thanks but no thanks" letter. It would also explain why his twitter friend says he met her and said she was "stupid and unintelligent."

As his schizophrenia worsens she's unfortunately caught up in his delusions and she (and the .gov by proxy) becomes the cause of all of his problems and sense of oppression. She's why he's having problems at his community college and why he gets rejected by the army (more rejection by authority).

This leads him to cling to any anti govt. ideology regardless of it being left or right. Doesn't matter what it is It just has to fit in with his sense of being persecuted along with delusions of grandeur. How he was going to create a new currency and style of grammar. He has to be for anything she's against and vice versa. At this point we might as well be looking into the political leanings of David Berkowitz's dog because we're not dealing with a rational world view.

My guess is her re-election set him off. He bought the gun in November and since she's still in office his persecution will just continue. She gets sworn in and he loses it.

He should still get the needle but crazy has way more to do with this guy than politics. Just a theory.

Interesting theory and analysis. Had any training in psychology/psychiatry?

Nothing outside of some basic psych classes in college. The big thing was having an ex girlfriend who developed schizophrenia just before she turned 21. She went from being normal to "Bush caused Katrina with a weather machine and I'm a descendant of Jesus so I'm destined to bring the government down" in the course of 2 months. I did a lot of reading up on schizophrenia after. She had the whole "govt. is out to get me/delusions of grandeur" thing and her ramblings and incoherent ideology sounded very similar to the things Loughlin has posted.

I could be way off with that theory but they sound an awfully lot a like. I just hope she and anyone else out there like this are able to get help before they snap. After I told her parents what was going on they didn't seem too concerned so I ejected soon after. She had just graduated so it was too late to ask her school for help.

Thanks for the interesting insight.

Damn brother. Nice analysis and good use of eject.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:15:03 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

1. Right wing means being in favor of limited government, allowing the free market to decide the means of production, and only injecting government oversight to adjudicate legal conflict

2. Left wing means being in favor of a strong overreaching government, whether the government merely exerts comprehensive force over private production, or overtly controls the means of production.

3. Nazism was at it's very core a system of overtly strong overreaching government, injecting itself into every aspect of German life.

You aren't as smart as you think.

Not only are you incorrect, you presuppose a discussion of the American tradition of politics. Right and left wing mean different things in different places.

For instance, in Europe no one questions government involvement in people's lives. That is a given. They focus only on what the government chooses to do.

Thank you, sir. Despite the big words used in his post he has little grasp of the European political landscape and terminology of the 1920's -30's.

You two aren't as smart as you think.

You might be suprised to learn that there is a growing sentiment of embracing a more limited government in many sectors of Europe. It's only the encased idiots who profess that there is only fascism or socialism to choose from, and nothing else ..

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:15:49 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
You might be suprised to learn that there is a growing sentiment of embracing a more limited government in many sectors of Europe. It's only the encased idiots who profess that there is only fascism or socialism to choose from, and nothing else

Limited government in Europe isn't particularly limited.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:18:03 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

The term "Nazi," itself is short for the german words meaning "National Socialist Workers' Party."

But it was not socialist.

His actual politics were facist and were far right

I'm just going to quote wikipedia along with its source

"Nazism is a politically syncretic variety of fascism, which incorporates policies, tactics and philosophic tenets from left and right-wing politics. Italian fascism and German Nazism reject liberalism, democracy and Marxism"

Ernst Nolte, Der Faschismus in seiner Epoche (Fascism in its Epoch), München 1963, ISBN 3-492-02448-3.

They are not far right. Nazism holds tenets from left and right wing politics.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:18:12 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here is what we'll probably find out long after any knee jerk legislation is proposed/passed. Just a theory based on the reports and personal interactions with someone with schizophrenia.

Loughner is unstable and alienated and sees his lefty politics as his identity. He probably had an interaction with Giffords or her staff that didn't go as he had planned back in 07. Maybe he tried to volunteer or work for her campaign and was sent a "thanks but no thanks" letter. It would also explain why his twitter friend says he met her and said she was "stupid and unintelligent."

As his schizophrenia worsens she's unfortunately caught up in his delusions and she (and the .gov by proxy) becomes the cause of all of his problems and sense of oppression. She's why he's having problems at his community college and why he gets rejected by the army (more rejection by authority).

This leads him to cling to any anti govt. ideology regardless of it being left or right. Doesn't matter what it is It just has to fit in with his sense of being persecuted along with delusions of grandeur. How he was going to create a new currency and style of grammar. He has to be for anything she's against and vice versa. At this point we might as well be looking into the political leanings of David Berkowitz's dog because we're not dealing with a rational world view.

My guess is her re-election set him off. He bought the gun in November and since she's still in office his persecution will just continue. She gets sworn in and he loses it.

He should still get the needle but crazy has way more to do with this guy than politics. Just a theory.

Interesting theory and analysis. Had any training in psychology/psychiatry?

Nothing outside of some basic psych classes in college. The big thing was having an ex girlfriend who developed schizophrenia just before she turned 21. She went from being normal to "Bush caused Katrina with a weather machine and I'm a descendant of Jesus so I'm destined to bring the government down" in the course of 2 months. I did a lot of reading up on schizophrenia after. She had the whole "govt. is out to get me/delusions of grandeur" thing and her ramblings and incoherent ideology sounded very similar to the things Loughlin has posted.

I could be way off with that theory but they sound an awfully lot a like. I just hope she and anyone else out there like this are able to get help before they snap. After I told her parents what was going on they didn't seem too concerned so I ejected soon after. She had just graduated so it was too late to ask her school for help.

Wow. Experience is often the best teacher but I am sorry you had to live through that situation. Sounds like her parents may have been in denial and I hope your ex-girlfriend received professional help.

Your original post seemed very insightful. . . that is why I asked the question.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:20:16 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Carolyn McCarthy readies gun control bill

One of the fiercest gun-control advocates in Congress, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), pounced on the shooting massacre in Tucson Sunday, promising to introduce legislation as soon as Monday.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47338.html

Well Carolyn can eat a bag barrel of dicks.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:20:55 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Are you for real?

I can use shorter words. If I must.

I have no doubt that you have almost mastered the challenge presented by the characteristics of abbreviated linguistics. Whether you can even understand the sentiment of those truncated parcels of communication is something you and a few others need to engage before moving on to the grownup discussion.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:21:35 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Whee-a yooo hefe-a zeese-a nooooseeting pigffoocking inbreds like-a Glee-a Beck roonning zeeoor coont moooths zee-a wey zeey do, this is zee-a reel ooootcome-a yooo get. Bork Bork Bork!

Fringe-a nootjobs gifee-a joost inooogh ooff a poosh whee-a zeey see-a people-a oon whet shooold be-a Decent, Respecteble-a telefision media rembling ibooot "tyroonny" und doom und gloom igeinst oooor gofernment.

I hete-a zeese-a seck ooff telking shit hysteria peroonoia mongers more-a thoon unyone-a ilse-a in zee-a cooontry.

Unyone-a wit helff a brein coon figoore-a oooot zeet whee-a yooo get inooogh peolpe-a in boollshit celebrity "uoothority" telking zee-a wey zeese-a pigs do, it's oonly a metter ooff time-a beffore-a some-a doomb kid tekes whet zeey sey seriooosly.

Most ooff zee-a horrors ooff modern history hefe-a beee-a committed by doomb kids motifeted by whet zeey heer.

http://www.digitalrendezvous.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/swedish_chef.png

This is one of the funniest things I've ever read here.

You have to know Sesame street's Swedish Chef to get it though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsdDlvcIrns&feature=related

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:24:17 PM EDT

[#49]

Is there still a 100 page limit?

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:24:30 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

TUCSON, Ariz. – At an event roughly three years ago, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords took a question from Jared Loughner, the man accused of trying to assassinate her and killing six other people. According to two of his high school friends the question was essentially this: "What is government if words have no meaning?"

Loughner was angry about her response — she read the question and had nothing to say.

"He was like ... 'What do you think of these people who are working for the government and they can't describe what they do?'" one friend told The Associated Press on Sunday. "He did not like government officials, how they spoke. Like they were just trying to cover up some conspiracy."

Both friends spoke on condition of anonymity, saying they wanted to avoid the publicity surrounding the case. To them, the question was classic Jared: confrontational, nonlinear and obsessed with how words create reality.

The friends' comments paint a picture bolstered by other former classmates and Loughner's own Internet postings: that of a social outcast with nihilistic, almost indecipherable beliefs steeped in mistrust and paranoia.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110110/ap_on_re_us/us_congresswoman_shot_gunman

Bump. Best MSM piece I've read on him.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - BREAKING Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head point blank (Page 95 of 101)

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