BREAKING Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head point blank - Page 96

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - BREAKING Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head point blank (Page 96 of 101)

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:25:22 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

The term "Nazi," itself is short for the german words meaning "National Socialist Workers' Party."

But it was not socialist.

His actual politics were facist and were far right

I'm just going to quote wikipedia along with its source

"Nazism is a politically syncretic variety of fascism, which incorporates policies, tactics and philosophic tenets from left and right-wing politics. Italian fascism and German Nazism reject liberalism, democracy and Marxism"

Ernst Nolte, Der Faschismus in seiner Epoche (Fascism in its Epoch), München 1963, ISBN 3-492-02448-3.

They are not far right. Nazism holds tenets from left and right wing politics.

Can anyone from Wikistan give us examples of the alleged "right wing" aspects of Nazism/fascism? You know, besides the simpleton's argument of "well, they were allowed to own property" or (for lack of more insightful comment) ...."because they were mean!"

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:26:11 PM EDT

[#2]

for you guys battling the jackass libturd bots on social media tonight, be sure to remind them who the REAL AGITATOR is:

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:28:48 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

for you guys battling the jackass libturd bots on social media tonight, be sure to remind them who the REAL AGITATOR is:

http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-9-37-39-pm.png?w=510&h=383

That's something worth flagging for future reference.

Although according to some here, Obama must be right wing because he still allows the ownership of private property......

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:28:58 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Fox news doesn't stream their show online, do they?

Here

Thank you sir!

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:30:06 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

The term "Nazi," itself is short for the german words meaning "National Socialist Workers' Party."

But it was not socialist.

His actual politics were facist and were far right

I'm just going to quote wikipedia along with its source

"Nazism is a politically syncretic variety of fascism, which incorporates policies, tactics and philosophic tenets from left and right-wing politics. Italian fascism and German Nazism reject liberalism, democracy and Marxism"

Ernst Nolte, Der Faschismus in seiner Epoche (Fascism in its Epoch), München 1963, ISBN 3-492-02448-3.

They are not far right. Nazism holds tenets from left and right wing politics.

Can anyone from Wikistan give us examples of the alleged "right wing" aspects of Nazism/fascism? You know, besides the simpleton's argument of "well, they were allowed to own property" or (for lack of more insightful comment) ...."because they were mean!"

Ardent nationalism, for one, is a traditional characteristic of the right. In the Nazi's case, that nationalism progressed to race-based nationalism, and hatred for minorities in Germany.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:33:24 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

The term "Nazi," itself is short for the german words meaning "National Socialist Workers' Party."

But it was not socialist.

Not to say socialism didn't play a part but then most governments are a hodgepodge of ideas. Our own "free economy" has some nice socialistic ties in it.

His actual politics were facist and were far right.

Oh, sweet Jesus:

9. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties.

10. It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good.

We demand therefore:

11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work.

The breaking of the slavery of interest

12. In view of the enormous sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore the ruthless confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industrial enterprises.

15. We demand the extensive development of insurance for old age.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a healthy middle class, the immediate communalizing of big department stores, and their lease at a cheap rate to small traders, and that the utmost consideration shall be shown to all small traders in the placing of State and municiple orders.

17. We demand a land reform suitable to our national requirements, the passing of a law for the expropriation of land for communal purposes without compensation; the abolition of ground rent, and the prohibition of all speculation in land. *

18. We demand the ruthless prosecution of those whose activities are injurious to the common interest. Common criminals, usurers, profiteers, etc., must be punished with death, whatever their creed or race.

19. We demand that Roman Law, which serves a materialistic world order, be replaced by a German common law.

20. The State must consider a thorough reconstruction of our national system of education (with the aim of opening up to every able and hard-working German the possibility of higher education and of thus obtaining advancement). The curricula of all educational establishments must be brought into line with the requirements of practical life. The aim of the school must be to give the pupil, beginning with the first sign of intelligence, a grasp of the nation of the State (through the study of civic affairs). We demand the education of gifted children of poor parents, whatever their class or occupation, at the expense of the State.

21. The State must ensure that the nation's health standards are raised by protecting mothers and infants, by prohibiting child labor, by promoting physical strength through legislation providing for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and by the extensive support of clubs engaged in the physical training of youth.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:34:22 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Ardent nationalism, for one, is a traditional characteristic of the right. In the Nazi's case, that nationalism progressed to race-based nationalism, and hatred for minorities in Germany.

[/quote]

So a leftist (being the opposite of a rightist) is an anti-nationalist and "internationalist?" So to believe that America is better than other countries makes you "right?"

So a "leftist" isn't a socialist, he is an internationalist?

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:35:48 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

The term "Nazi," itself is short for the german words meaning "National Socialist Workers' Party."

But it was not socialist.

His actual politics were facist and were far right

I'm just going to quote wikipedia along with its source

"Nazism is a politically syncretic variety of fascism, which incorporates policies, tactics and philosophic tenets from left and right-wing politics. Italian fascism and German Nazism reject liberalism, democracy and Marxism"

Ernst Nolte, Der Faschismus in seiner Epoche (Fascism in its Epoch), München 1963, ISBN 3-492-02448-3.

They are not far right. Nazism holds tenets from left and right wing politics.

Can anyone from Wikistan give us examples of the alleged "right wing" aspects of Nazism/fascism? You know, besides the simpleton's argument of "well, they were allowed to own property" or (for lack of more insightful comment) ...."because they were mean!"

Ardent nationalism, for one, is a traditional characteristic of the right. In the Nazi's case, that nationalism progressed to race-based nationalism, and hatred for minorities in Germany.

So all those Ruskies fighting for "Mother Russia" were right wing as well?

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:36:38 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:

1. Right wing means being in favor of limited government, allowing the free market to decide the means of production, and only injecting government oversight to adjudicate legal conflict

2. Left wing means being in favor of a strong overreaching government, whether the government merely exerts comprehensive force over private production, or overtly controls the means of production.

3. Nazism was at it's very core a system of overtly strong overreaching government, injecting itself into every aspect of German life.

You aren't as smart as you think.

Not only are you incorrect, you presuppose a discussion of the American tradition of politics. Right and left wing mean different things in different places.

For instance, in Europe no one questions government involvement in people's lives. That is a given. They focus only on what the government chooses to do.

Thank you, sir. Despite the big words used in his post he has little grasp of the European political landscape and terminology of the 1920's -30's.

You two aren't as smart as you think.

You might be suprised to learn that there is a growing sentiment of embracing a more limited government in many sectors of Europe. It's only the encased idiots who profess that there is only fascism or socialism to choose from, and nothing else ..

You have defined recent American political conceptions of Left/Right wing. You are correct from that perspective, but from a universal/ historical/ textbook definition, as in the real definition, you are wrong.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:37:21 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So the guy was crazy enough to get banned from college, but not crazy enough to not pass a 4473?

So what do YOU wanna do about it? Make firearm ownership even more restrictive?

No, but if we are going to fill out a silly form and wait for a phone call they might as well do it right. He failed MEPS due to drug use and was a crazy shitbag. That should get you on the "no guns for you list" if we are going to have one. I'd rather political gatherings not be off limits to ccw for now obviously reasons as a proactive measure. Much like I feel that if we are going to have a war on terror, we might as well actually kill terrorists instead of feeling up children at airports.

i'll agree with that. Dishonorable Discharge is enough to get you denied isn't it? Rejected at MEPS for drug use is reasonable as well...or if not denied, at least delayed until a closer look can be taken.

DD is a federal felony conviction at General Court Martial, so yes.

Rejected at MEPS for drug use isn't documented in that way, member is simply not processed further for enlistment.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:37:22 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

The term "Nazi," itself is short for the german words meaning "National Socialist Workers' Party."

But it was not socialist.

Not to say socialism didn't play a part but then most governments are a hodgepodge of ideas. Our own "free economy" has some nice socialistic ties in it.

His actual politics were facist and were far right.

ETA: My apologies. This tragedy does not need to be turned into a Hitlerfest. This topic apparently has been debated before, I didn't realize so many thought it was the other way. Carry on.

when you hear the term "FAR RIGHT" in context of GERMANY and the NAZI party they are talking about the "FAR RIGHT" of German politics at the time....not the same as far right in todays American Politics...

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:37:25 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

The term "Nazi," itself is short for the german words meaning "National Socialist Workers' Party."

But it was not socialist.

Not to say socialism didn't play a part but then most governments are a hodgepodge of ideas. Our own "free economy" has some nice socialistic ties in it.

His actual politics were facist and were far right.

ETA: My apologies. This tragedy does not need to be turned into a Hitlerfest. This topic apparently has been debated before, I didn't realize so many thought it was the other way. Carry on.

You are kidding, right? Your ETA does nothing to quell the debate. As stated earlier in this thread the only difference was the fascist made the trains run on time. The brown shirts and the red shirts were competing for the same recruits.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:37:49 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Here is what we'll probably find out long after any knee jerk legislation is proposed/passed. Just a theory based on the reports and personal interactions with someone with schizophrenia.

Loughner is unstable and alienated and sees his lefty politics as his identity. He probably had an interaction with Giffords or her staff that didn't go as he had planned back in 07. Maybe he tried to volunteer or work for her campaign and was sent a "thanks but no thanks" letter. It would also explain why his twitter friend says he met her and said she was "stupid and unintelligent."

As his schizophrenia worsens she's unfortunately caught up in his delusions and she (and the .gov by proxy) becomes the cause of all of his problems and sense of oppression. She's why he's having problems at his community college and why he gets rejected by the army (more rejection by authority).

This leads him to cling to any anti govt. ideology regardless of it being left or right. Doesn't matter what it is It just has to fit in with his sense of being persecuted along with delusions of grandeur. How he was going to create a new currency and style of grammar. He has to be for anything she's against and vice versa. At this point we might as well be looking into the political leanings of David Berkowitz's dog because we're not dealing with a rational world view.

My guess is her re-election set him off. He bought the gun in November and since she's still in office his persecution will just continue. She gets sworn in and he loses it.

He should still get the needle but crazy has way more to do with this guy than politics. Just a theory.

Interesting theory and analysis. Had any training in psychology/psychiatry?

Nothing outside of some basic psych classes in college. The big thing was having an ex girlfriend who developed schizophrenia just before she turned 21. She went from being normal to "Bush caused Katrina with a weather machine and I'm a descendant of Jesus so I'm destined to bring the government down" in the course of 2 months. I did a lot of reading up on schizophrenia after. She had the whole "govt. is out to get me/delusions of grandeur" thing and her ramblings and incoherent ideology sounded very similar to the things Loughlin has posted.

I could be way off with that theory but they sound an awfully lot a like. I just hope she and anyone else out there like this are able to get help before they snap. After I told her parents what was going on they didn't seem too concerned so I ejected soon after. She had just graduated so it was too late to ask her school for help.

Wow. Experience is often the best teacher but I am sorry you had to live through that situation. Sounds like her parents may have been in denial and I hope your ex-girlfriend received professional help.

Your original post seemed very insightful. . . that is why I asked the question.

Thanks! No problem. This was a good 5-6 years ago and I lost touch with her soon after so I don't know if she ever got help. Her Mom was a bit nutty herself and was in denial but her dad seemed like a reasonable guy so I'm guessing he stepped in eventually once he saw it first hand.

I've seen neurological disorders and mental illness in some family members so I kinda have a knack for this stuff since I read a lot about it. I've thought about it as a career but at 30 it would suck to go back to school for another degree or go for an MD now that my student loans are nearly paid off.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:37:50 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Since this whole crosshair thing is being taken so literally (although I can't figure out why) it might be prudent at this point to raise the fact that Glocks don't have crosshairs.

I suppose that the red dot (Bindi) on a Hindu's forehead is an aiming point as well if we are to take this liberal horseshit literally

You folks don't immerse yourself in our political discourse like we do with your royal family's wedding plans. Palin's image is simply the most visible in a long line of violent rhetoric coming from the right.

To claim that Palin's rhetoric is violent is disingenuous at best.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:41:36 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Ardent nationalism, for one, is a traditional characteristic of the right. In the Nazi's case, that nationalism progressed to race-based nationalism, and hatred for minorities in Germany.

So a leftist (being the opposite of a rightist) is an anti-nationalist and "internationalist?" So to believe that America is better than other countries makes you "right?"

So a "leftist" isn't a socialist, he is an internationalist?[/quote]

Its not that simple, but yes. Marxist theory suggests focusing on the international class interests, not individual nations.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:42:06 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:

1. Right wing means being in favor of limited government, allowing the free market to decide the means of production, and only injecting government oversight to adjudicate legal conflict

2. Left wing means being in favor of a strong overreaching government, whether the government merely exerts comprehensive force over private production, or overtly controls the means of production.

3. Nazism was at it's very core a system of overtly strong overreaching government, injecting itself into every aspect of German life.

You aren't as smart as you think.

Not only are you incorrect, you presuppose a discussion of the American tradition of politics. Right and left wing mean different things in different places.

For instance, in Europe no one questions government involvement in people's lives. That is a given. They focus only on what the government chooses to do.

Thank you, sir. Despite the big words used in his post he has little grasp of the European political landscape and terminology of the 1920's -30's.

You two aren't as smart as you think.

You might be suprised to learn that there is a growing sentiment of embracing a more limited government in many sectors of Europe. It's only the encased idiots who profess that there is only fascism or socialism to choose from, and nothing else ..

You have defined recent American political conceptions of Left/Right wing. You are correct from that perspective, but from a universal/ historical/ textbook progressivist definition, as in the real (sic) definition, you are wrong.

There. Fixed it for you ....... and now you've learned something useful you can take back to the hallowed halls of academia.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:43:10 PM EDT

[#17]

4467

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:44:36 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Ardent nationalism, for one, is a traditional characteristic of the right. In the Nazi's case, that nationalism progressed to race-based nationalism, and hatred for minorities in Germany.

So a leftist (being the opposite of a rightist) is an anti-nationalist and "internationalist?" So to believe that America is better than other countries makes you "right?"

So a "leftist" isn't a socialist, he is an internationalist?

Its not that simple, but yes. Marxist theory suggests focusing on the international class interests, not individual nations.
[/quote]

Your explanation for why nazism was "right wing" was that simple.
To take it to its logical conclusion, is no less a simplification.

So can we say that his interest in both mein kampf and communist manifesto points to him being undoubtably a socialist from neither the left nor right wing (seeing as how his nationalist tendencies are unknown?)

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:50:45 PM EDT

[#19]

Not sure if it's posted yet, but Yahoo's front page is running an article that makes him sound like a 9/11 truther and does list his favorite books as Communist Manifesto etc etc...
Link

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:53:19 PM EDT

[#20]

People arguing that a single word "right" does or doesn't apply to a complex political/economic system involving millions of people 70 years ago. I'm shocked that we haven't come to a consensus on the issue

Seriously, I know its hearting to have hitler on the other team, but give it a rest.

Posted: 1/9/2011 6:54:16 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Not sure if it's posted yet, but Yahoo's front page is running an article that makes him sound like a 9/11 truther and does list his favorite books as Communist Manifesto etc etc...
Link

thanks - i just read it. let's make sure this link goes viral!

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:03:01 PM EDT

[#22]

Good article on the Left's reaction to this:

The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:04:56 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

for you guys battling the jackass libturd bots on social media tonight, be sure to remind them who the REAL AGITATOR is:

http://hillbuzz.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/screen-shot-2011-01-08-at-9-37-39-pm.png?w=510&h=383

Might be good to use as a facebook profile..

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:05:29 PM EDT

[#24]

200,336 views.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:06:34 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Ardent nationalism, for one, is a traditional characteristic of the right. In the Nazi's case, that nationalism progressed to race-based nationalism, and hatred for minorities in Germany.

So a leftist (being the opposite of a rightist) is an anti-nationalist and "internationalist?" So to believe that America is better than other countries makes you "right?"

So a "leftist" isn't a socialist, he is an internationalist?

Its not that simple, but yes. Marxist theory suggests focusing on the international class interests, not individual nations.

Your explanation for why nazism was "right wing" was that simple.

To take it to its logical conclusion, is no less a simplification.

So can we say that his interest in both mein kampf and communist manifesto points to him being undoubtably a socialist from neither the left nor right wing (seeing as how his nationalist tendencies are unknown?)[/quote]I never claimed Nazism was right-wing. In fact, if you look at my previous posts, I disagree with a poster who claims Nazism is very right wing. I am claiming that Nazism has tenets from both left and right wing idealistic.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:07:46 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

200,336 views.

I think threads lock after 100 pages in GD. Around page 98 or 99 someone needs to think about part II and reference this thread.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:08:19 PM EDT

[#27]

Please god I hope this doesn't cause a gun and ammo buying panic that drives prices up. Ammo is already stupid expensive compared to when I started really shooting a decade ago.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:08:26 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Good article on the Left's reaction to this:

The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:09:10 PM EDT

[#29]

The confusion that is National Socialism is the perfect example of how useless the Left vs Right Paradigm shoudl be thrown out.

It should be..

Big Government one end, Limited or No government on the other. That is a scale that is universal and cant be manipulated.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:14:03 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:

1. Right wing means being in favor of limited government, allowing the free market to decide the means of production, and only injecting government oversight to adjudicate legal conflict

2. Left wing means being in favor of a strong overreaching government, whether the government merely exerts comprehensive force over private production, or overtly controls the means of production.

3. Nazism was at it's very core a system of overtly strong overreaching government, injecting itself into every aspect of German life.

You aren't as smart as you think.

Not only are you incorrect, you presuppose a discussion of the American tradition of politics. Right and left wing mean different things in different places.

For instance, in Europe no one questions government involvement in people's lives. That is a given. They focus only on what the government chooses to do.

Thank you, sir. Despite the big words used in his post he has little grasp of the European political landscape and terminology of the 1920's -30's.

You two aren't as smart as you think.

You might be suprised to learn that there is a growing sentiment of embracing a more limited government in many sectors of Europe. It's only the encased idiots who profess that there is only fascism or socialism to choose from, and nothing else ..

You have defined recent American political conceptions of Left/Right wing. You are correct from that perspective, but from a universal/ historical/ textbook progressivist definition, as in the real (sic) definition, you are wrong.

There. Fixed it for you ....... and now you've learned something useful you can take back to the hallowed halls of academia.

I'm sorry. That's not correct. It's not a PC or a progressive thing. I teach political science, specifically American Federalism and early political thought. You seem to have a problem separating popular culture from history.

The founding fathers were liberal thinkers.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:14:24 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
The confusion that is National Socialism is the perfect example of how useless the Left vs Right Paradigm shoudl be thrown out.

It should be..

Big Government one end, Limited or No government on the other. That is a scale that is universal and cant be manipulated.

Certainly not the case. Many conservatives want big government. Consider religious conservatives who like a government large enough to protect their version of morality.

What you've got here are essentially two different dimensions with four permutations.

The variables are based on control and attitudes towards personal property.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:17:24 PM EDT

[#32]

I really wish they'd quit digging. The only thing they are accomplishing is to widen the chasm between both sides. And that will not end well. It may be a few months, or a few years, but it will not end well.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:17:54 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
The confusion that is National Socialism is the perfect example of how useless the Left vs Right Paradigm shoudl be thrown out.

It should be..

Big Government one end, Limited or No government on the other. That is a scale that is universal and cant be manipulated.

Or maybe its just stupid and completely unhelpful to try to reduce politics to left/right?

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:17:57 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim Hitler was a socialist before.

He was about as far right as you can get. It was funny he didn't care for Benito even though they were about one in the same.

The term "Nazi," itself is short for the german words meaning "National Socialist Workers' Party."

But it was not socialist.

Not to say socialism didn't play a part but then most governments are a hodgepodge of ideas. Our own "free economy" has some nice socialistic ties in it.

His actual politics were facist and were far right.

ETA: My apologies. This tragedy does not need to be turned into a Hitlerfest. This topic apparently has been debated before, I didn't realize so many thought it was the other way. Carry on.

Talk about contradicting oneself.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:20:10 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
The confusion that is National Socialism is the perfect example of how useless the Left vs Right Paradigm shoudl be thrown out.

It should be..

Big Government one end, Limited or No government on the other. That is a scale that is universal and cant be manipulated.

Certainly not the case. Many conservatives want big government. Consider religious conservatives who like a government large enough to protect their version of morality.

What you've got here are essentially two different dimensions with four permutations.

The variables are based on control and attitudes towards personal property.

Exactly. Go far enough to each end and you will find ardent totalitarians.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:20:16 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

200,336 views.

I think threads lock after 100 pages in GD. Around page 98 or 99 someone needs to think about part II and reference this thread.

Threads can go on forever now I believe, I don't know if they need to be flagged by mods/staff or it is just all threads but I remember something about that.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:24:19 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Good article on the Left's reaction to this:

The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel

This about sums it up! Thanks for posting the link.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:24:52 PM EDT

[#38]

I just found out about this...

Can someone give me a summary of the last 96 (!!!!!!) pages!? I don't feel like reading through tons and tons of commentary, just to get an ounce of fact about what happened.

I read the first couple pages of the thread, and it was mostly conjecture. Is there more of a consensus of what really happened here?

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:31:01 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Can anyone from Wikistan give us examples of the alleged "right wing" aspects of Nazism/fascism? You know, besides the simpleton's argument of "well, they were allowed to own property" or (for lack of more insightful comment) ...."because they were mean!"

Ardent nationalism, for one, is a traditional characteristic of the right. In the Nazi's case, that nationalism progressed to race-based nationalism, and hatred for minorities in Germany.

So all those Ruskies fighting for "Mother Russia" were right wing as well?

Socialism In One Country.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:32:20 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Good article on the Left's reaction to this:

The Arizona Tragedy and the Politics of Blood Libel

Mr. Reynolds puts the mood in to words perfectly, once again. Good article.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:34:11 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

200,336 views.

I think threads lock after 100 pages in GD. Around page 98 or 99 someone needs to think about part II and reference this thread.

Threads can go on forever now I believe, I don't know if they need to be flagged by mods/staff or it is just all threads but I remember something about that.

10-4

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:34:42 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Please god I hope this doesn't cause a gun and ammo buying panic that drives prices up. Ammo is already stupid expensive compared to when I started really shooting a decade ago.

All I've been thinking about. I'm on the verge of buying it up and sitting on it and stop shooting....

Fuck...

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:36:38 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

1. Right wing means being in favor of limited government, allowing the free market to decide the means of production, and only injecting government oversight to adjudicate legal conflict

2. Left wing means being in favor of a strong overreaching government, whether the government merely exerts comprehensive force over private production, or overtly controls the means of production.

3. Nazism was at it's very core a system of overtly strong overreaching government, injecting itself into every aspect of German life.

You aren't as smart as you think.

Not only are you incorrect, you presuppose a discussion of the American tradition of politics. Right and left wing mean different things in different places.

For instance, in Europe no one questions government involvement in people's lives. That is a given. They focus only on what the government chooses to do.

Are you for real?

Yes, he is. And he's correct.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:37:54 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
I just found out about this...
Can someone give me a summary of the last 96 (!!!!!!) pages!? I don't feel like reading through tons and tons of commentary, just to get an ounce of fact about what happened.

I read the first couple pages of the thread, and it was mostly conjecture. Is there more of a consensus of what really happened here?

glad you're ok dude. how'd you end up in a coma?

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:43:53 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:

1. Right wing means being in favor of limited government, allowing the free market to decide the means of production, and only injecting government oversight to adjudicate legal conflict

2. Left wing means being in favor of a strong overreaching government, whether the government merely exerts comprehensive force over private production, or overtly controls the means of production.

3. Nazism was at it's very core a system of overtly strong overreaching government, injecting itself into every aspect of German life.

You aren't as smart as you think.

Not only are you incorrect, you presuppose a discussion of the American tradition of politics. Right and left wing mean different things in different places.

For instance, in Europe no one questions government involvement in people's lives. That is a given. They focus only on what the government chooses to do.

Thank you, sir. Despite the big words used in his post he has little grasp of the European political landscape and terminology of the 1920's -30's.

You two aren't as smart as you think.

You might be suprised to learn that there is a growing sentiment of embracing a more limited government in many sectors of Europe. It's only the encased idiots who profess that there is only fascism or socialism to choose from, and nothing else ..

You have defined recent American political conceptions of Left/Right wing. You are correct from that perspective, but from a universal/ historical/ textbook progressivist definition, as in the real (sic) definition, you are wrong.

There. Fixed it for you ....... and now you've learned something useful you can take back to the hallowed halls of academia.

I'm sorry. That's not correct. It's not a PC or a progressive thing. I teach political science, specifically American Federalism and early political thought. You seem to have a problem separating popular culture from history.

The founding fathers were liberal thinkers.

Obfuscation doesn't help your cause. The fact that you teach political science means you were also trained by modern academia, and modern academia is the hornet's nest for progressives.

Remember, progressivism preceded all other branches of big government idealogies of modern thought. Terms like "fascism" and "communism" both have their roots in progressivism.

Again, you try to conjure a revisionist definition of "right wing" and "left wing" that has no historical context beyond the late 1800's, since the terms themselves are rather contemporary. The fact that the Nazis and Commies hated each other does not automatically mean one was left and one was right. Rather, such an approach is illogical. They were both leftist groups with minor contextual differences - the main gist for both groups was to control the populance. In truth it was the progressives who invented the ostensible differentiation at a time when the storm clouds that woud lead to WWII forced such an attempt. There had to be someway to separate the big government ideals of Russia with the big government ideals of Germany. This is where the ill-gotten definitions of "right wing" and "left wing" sprang up in your academic context, as well as fundamental European thought, and is a primary reason Europe can't seem to rid itself of the shackles of big government ideologies. "How can the government help me today" is seemingly engendered into European children from the moment they learn to comprehend. But as I pointed out, there is a growing body of Europeans who want a try at a true right wing way of governence, e.g. limiting government's role in day to day society, and allow individualism and personal responsibility to flourish.

The fact that our Founding Fathers were forward thinkers should not bely their true conservative leanings. They hard-wired the Constitution for a reason.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:47:19 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I just found out about this...

Can someone give me a summary of the last 96 (!!!!!!) pages!? I don't feel like reading through tons and tons of commentary, just to get an ounce of fact about what happened.

I read the first couple pages of the thread, and it was mostly conjecture. Is there more of a consensus of what really happened here?

glad you're ok dude. how'd you end up in a coma?

I'm in the same boat, Directv's been out and I listen to my ipod in the car. Just saw this thread about 10 mins ago.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:48:09 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

1. Right wing means being in favor of limited government, allowing the free market to decide the means of production, and only injecting government oversight to adjudicate legal conflict

2. Left wing means being in favor of a strong overreaching government, whether the government merely exerts comprehensive force over private production, or overtly controls the means of production.

3. Nazism was at it's very core a system of overtly strong overreaching government, injecting itself into every aspect of German life.

You aren't as smart as you think.

Not only are you incorrect, you presuppose a discussion of the American tradition of politics. Right and left wing mean different things in different places.

For instance, in Europe no one questions government involvement in people's lives. That is a given. They focus only on what the government chooses to do.

Are you for real?

Yes, he is. And he's correct.

Read the part in bold red, and then get back to me when you find the subjective stereotype.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:49:02 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Since this whole crosshair thing is being taken so literally (although I can't figure out why) it might be prudent at this point to raise the fact that Glocks don't have crosshairs.

I suppose that the red dot (Bindi) on a Hindu's forehead is an aiming point as well if we are to take this liberal horseshit literally

You folks don't immerse yourself in our political discourse like we do with your royal family's wedding plans. Palin's image is simply the most visible in a long line of violent rhetoric coming from the right.

To claim that Palin's rhetoric is violent is disingenuous at best.

Meh, imprecise language.

Allusions to guns? fighting? I know you're familiar with Sharron Angle's guffaw over the 2nd Amendment. Things like that.

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:52:41 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

The confusion that is National Socialism is the perfect example of how useless the Left vs Right Paradigm shoudl be thrown out.

It should be..

Big Government one end, Limited or No government on the other. That is a scale that is universal and cant be manipulated.

Certainly not the case. Many conservatives want big government. Consider religious conservatives who like a government large enough to protect their version of morality.

What you've got here are essentially two different dimensions with four permutations.

The variables are based on control and attitudes towards personal property.

Exactly. Go far enough to each end and you will find ardent totalitarians.

Overstated for the purpose of attempted equivocation. Most "religious conservatives" have no problem with live and let live, as long as a few cherished institutions are not invaded by non-believers via government mandate. Go back and read the part where I stated how a limited government still has a role in conflict adjudication. Does that suddenly make me "totalitarian"?

Posted: 1/9/2011 7:53:26 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:

200,336 views.

I think threads lock after 100 pages in GD. Around page 98 or 99 someone needs to think about part II and reference this thread.

Threads can go on forever now I believe, I don't know if they need to be flagged by mods/staff or it is just all threads but I remember something about that.

10-4

If I'm wrong someone speak up so we don't get confusion when we hit the wall

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - BREAKING Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head point blank (Page 96 of 101)

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