Help  me spend money.... but not too much.
Live in small house,   living room is only about 16 feet  square.

Have a JBL 12" powered subwoofer, and some Cheap-O  bose 301 front channel speakers. Future plan for some  small-ish  free standing  rear speakers.


Immediate need is to replace the  Old-School Harmon Kardon  2 channel AUDIO-ONLY receiver with some modern AV  Receiver.

House is  really small, so  I don't need a Kilowatt to fill  it.

 Only single  screen, and right now  we have a seldom used DVD player.

Mostly play Netflix, VUDU, and youtube inputs, through smarthub.

.

Help me  select a  medium/ cheap but not shitty AV receiver.

 Budget range  is 500 to a thousand bone.


Any  particular brands to STAY AWAY from ?

Denon X1300W will be $430 at BB on black friday. Supports all the newest audio and video formats including 4K HDR and Atmos/DTS:X. I plan on picking it up to power a 5.1.2 Atmos setup I'm setting up in my new house.

One possible choice are these any good ? :

Marantz SR5011

Marantz makes very good AV receivers, same parent company as Denon. Denon is basically just their entry/mid level products and Marantz is their high end brand. Can't go wrong with either.

Any other needs OP?  Like HDMI 4K, HDR, 2.2, etc.?  

The 2015 D+M AVR (Denon and Marantz) recently went steep discount.  You can get a Marantz 7010 for just over a grand.  I suspect on BF you can find it under 1K.

Full 9 channel amps onboard (5.1.4 or 7.1.2 right out of the box), 13.2 preouts (last year of the front wide pre outs on all major manufacturers), full 4K HDCP 2.2 compatibility, WLAN/LAN/BT, Audyssey XT32 room correction (with dual sub eq), DTS:X, Dolby Atmos, DSU (dolbey surround upmixing), etc.  

The only thing it doesn't have that the new 7011 has (2200 dollar AVR) is HEOS and Audyssey XT32 App compliant.  The new Audyssey app will let you maniplulate the EQ curves after room correction.  The prior year AVRs require Audyssey Pro (700 bucks) to do that.  And if you really want HEOS ability with the AVR you can simply purchase the HEOS link for like 300.  

The 7010 is probably the best value out there right now.  It's a ton of AVR for the cash.

IMO, you can't go wrong with a Denon/Marantz or Yamaha.  I really like Yamaha hardware but Im not a fan of YPAO (their room correction software.)

I'd caution against Integra, Pioneer Elite and Onkyo.

Really like my Marantz pre-pro and will be getting the newest model soon.

Stay away from Onkyo.  They have serious reliability issues.

Check out Accessories 4 Less. They sell refurbished AVR's. You can get a lot of receiver for your money. Last purchase from there was for my parents. I like Onkyo and when with a RZ900. The RZ's are suppose to have a little power and have a stronger power supply for the amplifier section. The 900 and 800 are last years model. The 910, 810 are this years model.

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/avreceiver/home-audio/receivers-amps/home-theater-receivers/1.html

Thank you all for the input, advice.   Marantz RS5011 is looking good, along with Cambridge Audio SX60 for rear  (satellite ?) speakers.
Working out on sales crew at Accesories 4 less, trying to talk them down from the $165 shipping

.

We bought a very nice Denon from there. Seems like it was less than half retail. Fantastic receiver.

Not sure if you purchased an AVR yet but Fry's has a pretty incredible deal on a Denon 4300.  This is about 50% off and one hell of an AVR (9 amps out of the box, 2 subs, 4K HDR 2.2 HDMI, Atmos/DTS:X, HEOS and the upgraded Audyssey MultiEQ XT 32 room correction software.)  I don't think there is a better deal out there right now.  And the 4300 is not suffering from the problems the 6300 currently is.



If you do pickup the Marantz, I think you'll be happy.  I have the 7011 and it's been a fantastic AVR.

Only place  would ship FREE was  Crutchfield, found an open box sale on the Marantz SR5011 for  $809, with full waranty .


 Should arrive  next week.

Onkyo or denon

Txl

I think you'll really enjoy the Marantz!

Guys I'm going to bump this back up for some advice. Ok, I'm looking to upgrade my older Denon due to new requirements I have.

In short I have a Denon 5.1 AVR (28XX) which is an older unit but still works great but I want to add a second zone and control it wirelessly. My unit has zip for internet/network connectivity but does support a zone 2. I want to run speakers out to my patio and stream Pandora/Apple Music (Airplay) while I'm poolside; control from an iPhone/iPad obviously. Looks like I missed the Christmas deals but Denon has some decent pricing on refurb'ed units directly. While video is important it's not paramount, the remote streaming and remote app control is more important at this point.

Help me spend some money guys, thought on the Denon X4200W, x2300 or maybe the Onkyo TXRZ810 or Yamaha RX-760.  Also looking at some 'outdoor' speakers but more than likely I'll go with the Klipsch 650's.

Since when does Onkyo have issue?

Mine is a 787 model, about 14 years old, and still drives y paradigms perfectly.

Op, he may be right, after I bought my favorite exceptional Onkyo, I stopped researching audio.

So, check the av forums online.  This is the first I've heard of Onkyo problems, ever.

I always recommend onkyo and demon.

Txl

Onkyo has had HDMI module problems for the last 5 or more years.  I had two receivers that the HDMI boards died.  First one was replaced by Onkyo with the newest model receiver of the same product level.  After researching the issue on line, the HDMI problem appeared to be wide spread.  I sold the replacement unit to a friend without even opening the box.  Bought a Marantz prepro and power amps.

Less than two years later, the HDMI board goes out on the Onkyo I sold to my friend.

I can no longer recommend Onkyo at all.  Either QC issues or garbage designs.  I don't care which.  Won't ever touch one again.

Love my Marantz prepro and could recommend Denon since it's the same company.

Yea they had heat issues for a few years and cooked HDMI boards, and also have had issues with bad network chips. But in Onkyo's defence and in your own words they Upgrade your receiver to the newest model instead of sending you a direct replacement. They have good customer service if something goes wrong.

Eh? What's wrong with Pioneer? I don't have an Elite, but I've been using their non-Elite receivers for years without issue and they have great performance for the dollar. Using a VSX-1130-K right now.

In fact, I'd say the non-Elites with their Andrew Jones speakers for a 5.1 up to 7.2 setup is one of the best damn sub-$1K home theater audio setups possible.

I went with Definitive Technology AW6500 for my outdoor speakers. I like the fact they use a passive radiator to help extend the lower end.

Yeah I was looking at those as well, likely I'll listen to both before deciding. The receiver is where I'm kinf of lost, shits changed in the past 15 yrs. since I don't *need* the 7.1 or DTS:X, latest shit. Problem I've got is buying something that will last and will be updated via updates.

I waited 4 months for repair or replacement.  That isn't good service.

I'd look at an Onkyo RZ 810 or 910. Just about all the manufacturers have smart phone remote apps that control the receiver via Wi-Fi. See if accessories 4 less has any in stock. You can save a big chunk of cash if your willing to do a referb. You can also get a extended warranty if you want a little more piece of mind.

Yep, have no problem with manufacture refurbed units as long as there's a warranty from the same manufacture. I'm familiar with A4L and may very well buy from there; after reading a couple of posts above I'm not sure I'd consider an Onkyo. Right now I'm looking between the following, Maramtz SR6010, Denon X3300W, X4200X or the Yamaha A860. All those seem to have about the same features, more power than I have now and full network capability. From what I've read online, the Yamaha appears to have the best tablet/smartphone control experience plus MusicCast control.

Download the remotes and see how you like them. They should have a demo mode so you can explore the controls with out actually connecting to any equipment. I have been running an Onkyo TX-NR808 for several years. It falls in the window of cooked HDMI boards. I haven't had any issues but one of my friends who has the same one has. Onkyo fixed it out of warranty and part of the fix included a pair of cooling fans.

How do you plan on driving the outdoor speakers on zone 2? Just looking at the backs the Denon X3300 doesn't appear to have a powered zone 2 (no speaker wire terminals). It has pre amp outputs but you will need an external amp. The Marantz and x42000 both say the High and Wide speaker terminals are "Assignable" which you might be able to set those up as a powered zone 2 and 3. You might check on that.  Id also favor Marantz and Denon over the Yamaha because they use Audyssey XT32 for automatic setup.

I've downloaded all three the Yama and Marantz apps seem to be the best but again this is only in 'demo' mode. Again, all that is needed is setting the zone and mute/vol and *maybe* Pandora or something.

As for the zone 2 outdoors speakers, as I understand it the Denon/Marantz is 'soft selectable' meaning the 7 or 9 posts are used. Personally I'm not a big fan of that but considering I only do 5.1 today, I don't see that ever being an issue.

Seems the bang for buck is the Denon/Marantz at A4L; looks like I missed a couple of sweet deals at Christmas. Giving I've got some time, I might see what gets reduced here since CES is done.

Something to research before you buy...

I do love my Integra rx, but there is one thing that bugs me.  My powered zone 2/3 can only be used with analog inputs, so anything that is plugged into the rx with HDMI won't play on my outdoor speakers.  No apple tv, etc.  

Not a total show stopper, and I'm sure that's changed on the newer models as mine is 6-7 years old by now.

Since they sold to Onkyo.

Onkyo today is not your father's Onkyo.  Sadly, its a shadow of it's former self.

I was a yuuuuge Onkyo fan in the early 90s.  In fact, I still have an Onkyo CDP and an Onkyo cassette deck from 1992 and I'll never get rid of then.  But you'll never see any of the newer Onkyo gear in my rack.

Going strictly from the app, I'd have to give the nod to the Yamahas over the D+M machines.  The Denon/Marantz apps are fine and can do everything you are asking above, but the Yamaha app is better, imo.  For me it's not a huge deal since I basically use the Harmony Elite to control my room(s).  

All of the D+M AVRs you listed use the last channel for Amp Assign for your zones.  Only the 7200, has the ability to Amp Assign any channel.  But you could always do your zone(s) using the pre outs and just use a cheap little 100 dollar amp from Amazon.  Its what most guys on AVS do--run all your home theater channels from the integrated amps in the AVR and then run your preouts through an AudioSource 100W amp from Amazon (or similar) for your Zone2/Zone3.  The pre outs give you some flexibility if you ever move beyond 5.1 and need those 2 additional channels for 7.1 (or 5.1.2 Atmos.)

My only knock on the Yamaha is their YPAO.   It's their room correction software.  It's inferior to Audyssey, imo.  I love Yamaha's hardware but they need to ditch YPAO and pony up for the Audyssey license.

Good thoughts, thanks. I think any of the three I'm looking at will do fine, considering I'm not pushing the envelope on my system I don't thing the D&M duo will be an issue down the road.

I'd recommend Denon.  I had been using Pioneer Elites but my last 3 receivers have been Denon.  

I've been running an Onkyo SR875 for 8 years or so, no problems. I do participate on an AVS forum, and there have been a few with heat issues but mine is on an open shelf system and has plenty of cooling.
And it has been amazing. Drives 7+2 and subs all day in a 750+sqft room. Missing a couple of the whistle's that the moderns have, but I've gotten my moneys worth.

Hey, I loved those old skool Harmon Kardons! That was my first kit, with a phillips 312 turntable and a pair of DCM Time Window 1a's. STILL using the 1a's as my mains. They gotta be...35 years old.

My TX NR808 is the same way. It can't take audio or video only out of a HDMI and play it over the second zone. I believe the newer ones can though.  When I listen to Pandora I have to stay on the Pandora player screen. Where my dad's RZ 900 he can listen to audio from Pandora or other network sources and watch the TV (dish network via HDMI).

Set up an alert on Slickdeals.net for a Denon AVR X4300h and you'll be able to pick one up for about $750. The Denon AVR X3300w also goes on sale refularly for $500-550. The sale prices pop up about once a month.

Both of these receivers deliver jaw dropping sound. I had always been a Yamaha/Sony/Pioneer guy, but after having Audessy MultiEQ XT32 run on my speakers (CMT-340se L//C/R, CMT-170 surrounds and Klipsch R-115SW sub), I'm decidedly in the Denon camp for the foreseeable future.

It really is all about the room correction software.

The only (out of the box) room correction that Ive seen give Audyssey a run for it's money is ARC.  I came real close to picking up an Anthem receiver and I was very impressed with their room correction when I demo'd the 1120.

If you can swing the Denon 4300, that version of Audyssey will have the Audyssey app available.  It lets you save multiple corrections as well as edit the individual curves.  Only the 2016 Denon 4300/6300 and Marantz 6011/7011 will have this available option, I believe.  

***I think the 6300 is out of your budgeted price range, but just in case you are looking at it--don't.  It has a known issue that Denon has finally acknowledged. You have to send the AVR back to Denon to have them replace a board. Not sure if it's been corrected on new 2016 units or not--the response has been kind of murky if it's corrected or if they are just fixing affected AVRs on a per unit basis.

Yeah the 6300 is out of my budget. Remember, I'm going to have to get outdoor speakers as well. I'd really like to keep it under $800.

The Denon 4300 has HEOS so it might me a feature that want to look into for running the outdoor speakers.

HEOS is definitely an option to a dedicated outdoor speakers.  

But you'll have to plug them in to power.  Only the HEOS 1 has a battery pack available for it.  On the positive side, you wont need to run speaker cables, you won't need to dedicate a zone on the AVR and you can move them around your entire house (assuming you have whole house wireless.)

The HEOS 1 sounds good, but I don't think it can compare to a dedicated AVR zone with Klipsch-level speakers.  You'll have to go up to a HEOS 3 or 5.  (I don't have a HEOS 7 so I can't comment on it's sound quality.)

You can control all of the music/zones from the HEOS app or, in my case, directly from the Spotify app (has to be a Spotify premium account.)  You can play multiple sources on different speakers or group the speakers to play a single source on all like whole house audio.  

They are rock solid meaning the are always on the network.  Never once have any of the 4 'fallen' off the network or been unavailable.  And they sound incredible.  They are definitely not weather-proof so you won't want to leave them outside.

Every once in a while D+M runs a special; buy a Denon 4300/6300 or Marantz 6011/7011 and get a free HEOS 1 speaker or 100 bucks off the HEOS 3/5/7 speakers.

Rather just run speaker wire but will use wireless speakers in other parts of the house.

My upper end Onkyo died less than 2 years old. Bought locally at Best Buy, the heat printer receipt faded to unreadable.

Onkyo wouldn't honor their own warranty because you couldn't read the damned receipt. 

I have a top of the line Yamaha now which is a great unit. 

Which model Yamaha? Advantage line?

this thread interdasts me----

I am looking at the Marantz refurbs on the site above and had a couple questions
I am not afraid to spend some $$$$   but don't want to overdo it.  like, why do I need a 2k version of a 9.2 compared to the 1500 or 1k version

here are my questions

--do I need 9.2?
--I WANT the latest and greatest 4k pass thru/etc.
--do I want/need audessey?   yes, I need room correction setup as I am a tard
--what am I gaining by going from 500 to 600 to 7000 series (that matters)
-- I have a massive 5-channel amp from Emotiva...so power is not an issue (and powered subs in front paradigms)
--if I get rid of massive amp--will this be enough power to rock out with my schnitzel out
--it does NOT need 2nd room shit


help me out!

So far the Yammy A860 and Marantz 6011 are my choices but I haven't pulled the trigger yet.

Only you can answer these questions but I threw my $0.02 above. My thoughts are set your budget and get as much horsepower as you can.

To start with, what do you run now, what do you want to run and what will your room accommodate?  

If you have a 5-channel Emotiva, Im guessing you are running at least 5.1 currently, yes?  So with the upgrade, what do you want to run?  Do you want to stay at 5.1?  Do you want to jump to 7.1?  Will the room support 7.1? (Not all spaces do.)  Do you want to make the leap to object-based surround?  And if so, which one--Atmos, DTS X or Aura 3D?  DTS X and Atmos are fairly close in the number of height-layer channels but Aura 3D is pretty much a different animal all together (and honestly Im not sure if it's going to catch on.)

This is pretty much your starting point in that it will tell you how many channels your AVR/Emotiva combo is going to need to accommodate.  

As for Audyssey, yes you need it.  From newbies to pros, it's like a wonder tool.  Good room correction is the closest thing to actual magic or voodoo Ive experienced.  It has come so far in the last 10 years.  YPAO from Yamaha is the same deal, I just believe Audyssey to be superior to YPAO.

You could ditch the Emotiva if you need funds for the AVR, but I would keep it.  I run a Marantz 7011 with 9 internal amps but I have my 5-channel  Emotiva XPA Gen 3 taking care of LCR SL and SR.  I let the Marantz's amps take care of SBL, SBR and 4 height channels (Im running 4-channel Atmos in my media room.)  It works well.  I think the Marantz could do all of it by itself (sans the second pair of Atmos speakers since it only has 9 internal amps) but I like to listen to movies and music loud.  I have a big room and there is a lot of space to fill so I didn't want to run out of head room with the internal amps spreading too thin.  And I use the extra channels for a second zone.  

But the size of your listening space (and any treatments) will ultimately determine whether the Emotiva will be of any benefit or if that money will be best spent elsewhere.

just ordered the Marantz 7011...

also ordered a Yamaha for upstairs living room...

got some setting up ta do soon....