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Posted: 4/26/2014 4:56:40 AM EDT
[#1]
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Nutter can you register a Duck as a short barreled mallard? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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THE BATFE has very broad powers however they have lost in court before! it just takes some money- like a lot of money and a good judge Nutter can you register a Duck as a short barreled mallard? High capacity quacks! |
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Posted: 4/26/2014 5:08:45 AM EDT
[#2]
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Ok I saw that part about the detachable mag the first two times you answered me on it. But the ATF has no fucking clue if the rifle is semi auto or not. They can guess all they want. But they really don't know what it is, and are not in the business of telling you unless you ask them or run afoul of federal law. They can make all the educated guesses they want, but if I pull the gas tube on an SBR build on a pre-ban as a straight pull rifle, register it on the NFA registry, and then convert it back to semi-auto after the stamp comes in, it wouldn't violate NFA, nor would it violate the state AWB. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Where duck does it say semi auto? Where duck does it say it takes a detachable mag? For starters it doesn't matter if the rifle takes a detachable magazine or not. The qualifier(s) is a semiautomatic centerfire rifle when it comes to the under 30 inch BS rule. If one is putting down, for example; Stag Arms, rifle, AR-15 (or Model 2), 2.23 (or 5.56) for the name of original manufacturer, type, model, and caliber. The ATF can make an "educated guess" that you have a semiautomatic centerfire rifle there for ask for the certificate of possession for it. If you don't have a semiautomatic centerfire rifle then I assume one would be telling ATF that and would show them the state statute language that indicates the under 30 rule applies to semiautomatic centerfire rifles. If ATF still demanded the certificate of possesson then I would venture to say its lawyer time to try and resolve the impasse with ATF. Ok I saw that part about the detachable mag the first two times you answered me on it. But the ATF has no fucking clue if the rifle is semi auto or not. They can guess all they want. But they really don't know what it is, and are not in the business of telling you unless you ask them or run afoul of federal law. They can make all the educated guesses they want, but if I pull the gas tube on an SBR build on a pre-ban as a straight pull rifle, register it on the NFA registry, and then convert it back to semi-auto after the stamp comes in, it wouldn't violate NFA, nor would it violate the state AWB. The ATF is apparently checking to see if the firearm is state legal. Remember that even though prebans are legal they are still considered assault weapons under the stupid state laws, its just they are just not subject to the registration requirement and not subject to the ban on transfer/sales. The question should be has the ATF demanded to see an CoP for a non CT AW's, ie a bolt action or the like? Or are they simply seeing the word "AR-15" or manufacturer name or the serial number and just assuming its an AW under CT's laws. My tinfoil hat side would speculate that there was an internal political decision at ATF to question any and all applications that come from CT. To demand the CoP even if one isn't needed. Think about it, the progressive goal is to ban guns long term, this is one possible way to enhance that based on our already asinine and insanely strict gun laws. It could be a win, win for the progressives since they didn't have to pass a law, just use "rules" and "interpretations" to fuck gun owners over in a manor that won't generate much outrage with the public or even other gun owners. Obama gets to look good and so does Malloy to their gun grabbing anti rights progressive base. In reality its just very possible that ATF hasn't spent the time reading through the minutia of our new laws to understand how fucked up and convoluted they are. They have 50 sets of state gun laws to deal with and perhaps someone there just didn't spend the time to really read CT's new laws to see what changed. Perhaps they made the assumption that many of our politicians and many citizens did on what was legal, like prebans and non semiautomatic non detachable magazine AR's, and what wasn't without actually reading the new laws. Remember there were some who voted for this law that were shocked and angry that prebans were still allowed. They thought they were banned. |
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Posted: 4/26/2014 6:11:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nutter can you register a Duck as a short barreled mallard? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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THE BATFE has very broad powers however they have lost in court before! it just takes some money- like a lot of money and a good judge Nutter can you register a Duck as a short barreled mallard? Well You do need a license for a dog And some places have outlawed put bulls so .... Give it a try |
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Posted: 4/26/2014 6:53:39 AM EDT
[#4]
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Well You do need a license for a dog And some places have outlawed put bulls so .... Give it a try Quote HistoryQuoted:
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THE BATFE has very broad powers however they have lost in court before! it just takes some money- like a lot of money and a good judge Nutter can you register a Duck as a short barreled mallard? Well You do need a license for a dog And some places have outlawed put bulls so .... Give it a try Every place should outlaw Pitbulls 
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Posted: 4/26/2014 8:03:08 AM EDT
[#5]
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Every place should outlaw Pitbulls Quote HistoryQuoted:
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THE BATFE has very broad powers however they have lost in court before! it just takes some money- like a lot of money and a good judge Nutter can you register a Duck as a short barreled mallard? Well You do need a license for a dog And some places have outlawed put bulls so .... Give it a try Every place should outlaw Pitbulls I have registered my hands as lethal weapons and I have a license to ill , so ..... |
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Posted: 4/26/2014 9:07:22 AM EDT
[#6]
At some point, between the $200, the 12 month wait, the cost of the trust (or passport photos, fingerprints and CLEO sign off) and the new hassle of educating the ATF on CT laws, people may just stop asking for permission.
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Posted: 4/26/2014 9:54:51 AM EDT
[#7]
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At some point, between the $200, the 12 month wait, the cost of the trust (or passport photos, fingerprints and CLEO sign off) and the new hassle of educating the ATF on CT laws, people may just stop asking for permission. Indeed. |
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Posted: 4/26/2014 10:07:42 AM EDT
[#8]
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At some point, between the $200, the 12 month wait, the cost of the trust (or passport photos, fingerprints and CLEO sign off) and the new hassle of educating the ATF on CT laws, people may just stop asking for permission. That's called Black Market It happens all the time when laws and regs get in the way Or a society is restrictive like Russia |
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Posted: 4/26/2014 1:15:07 PM EDT
[#9]
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At some point, between the $200, the 12 month wait, the cost of the trust (or passport photos, fingerprints and CLEO sign off) and the new hassle of educating the ATF on CT laws, people may just stop asking for permission. My thoughts exactly. If you make it impossible to comply with the law, people will simply ignore it. |
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Posted: 4/27/2014 5:12:17 AM EDT
[#10]
did anybody tell ATF the state was rejecting preban reg?
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Posted: 4/27/2014 5:48:41 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's called Black Market It happens all the time when laws and regs get in the way Or a society is restrictive like Russia Quote HistoryQuoted:
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At some point, between the $200, the 12 month wait, the cost of the trust (or passport photos, fingerprints and CLEO sign off) and the new hassle of educating the ATF on CT laws, people may just stop asking for permission. That's called Black Market It happens all the time when laws and regs get in the way Or a society is restrictive like Russia Yeah that's how holes get drilled |
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Posted: 5/2/2014 6:05:50 AM EDT
[#12]
I heard back from Sen Kissel's office last night. He is forwarding it to the republican legal counsel for consideration.
Might be a good idea for more contact with friendly State Reps. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just sent an email to Sen Kissel's office over this. I'm hoping he can talk with DESPP and have DESPP clear up this issue. |
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Posted: 5/7/2014 8:08:19 PM EDT
[#13]
DISAPPROVED!
"FAILED TO INCLUDE THE POSSESSION CERTIFICATE CONSIDERED BY STATE AS ASSAULT WEAPON...TEC" This is after I sent him via email and uploaded with the e-form the letter from DESPP clarifying that preban assault weapons don't need to be registered and the e-mail from Bushmaster stating mine was made before '94. 
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Posted: 5/7/2014 8:48:03 PM EDT
[#14]
fuq
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Posted: 5/8/2014 2:01:02 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 5/8/2014 6:39:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Witnessed an SBR get rejected yesterday because of the pre-ban silliness. Big disconnect between ATF and our laws on this one.
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Posted: 5/8/2014 6:51:26 AM EDT
[#17]
I'm almost tempted to SBR something and see what happens since I'm expempt and don't register shit. Wonder if they would still deny?
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Posted: 5/8/2014 7:08:28 AM EDT
[#18]
Damn, I have one that submitted in Oct. I hope they pull their heads out of their ass before they reach my form in that pile. I am tempted to submit one I do have my paperwork for....(non pre-ban)
I don't NEED a 2nd SBR, I WANT it. |
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Posted: 5/8/2014 7:21:18 AM EDT
[#19]
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I'm almost tempted to SBR something and see what happens since I'm expempt and don't register shit. Wonder if they would still deny? I bet they would deny it. It seems like they refuse to approve without a certificate no matter what. If a letter from DESPP explaining that prebans are exempt isn't clear enough for them I don't see how they could understand any other exemption. Maybe they would extende you an officer's courtesy though, who knows? |
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Posted: 5/8/2014 7:24:43 AM EDT
[#20]
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Damn, I have one that submitted in Oct. I hope they pull their heads out of their ass before they reach my form in that pile. I am tempted to submit one I do have my paperwork for....(non pre-ban) I don't NEED a 2nd SBR, I WANT it. My lawyer says CT will still issue certs for prebans even if the application comes in after Jan 1. He says that will be quicker than getting ATF to actually follow the law and I believe it. If I were you I would get a cert and get it to ATF as a correction for your current application. I'm going to try to get a cert for my preban next week and then file a form 1 via snail mail. |
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Posted: 5/8/2014 8:54:03 AM EDT
[#21]
that is interesting.. wonder how that is even legal. issuing something for something that doesn't need to be issued..and after the legal date to boot.
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Posted: 5/8/2014 9:52:40 AM EDT
[#22]
Once eforms are back up, I was going to test the fates with an SBR preban 10/22 from my trust.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm almost tempted to SBR something and see what happens since I'm expempt and don't register shit. Wonder if they would still deny? |
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Posted: 5/8/2014 10:17:19 AM EDT
[#23]
I just called the NFA and asked how I can mail an AWC and have it meet up with my application and was told "Dont do anything unless we request it". I expect to be rejected and then delayed.
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Posted: 5/8/2014 12:20:15 PM EDT
[#24]
EDIT: My post is for non-e-forms. Sorry for the confusion.
The only "good" thing is that once you get "rejected" or "error fix requested" in my experiences it really doesn't delay that much. On my last Form1 I needed to fix something and sent it back. I had the approved form and stamp less than 2 weeks later. It is like fixed forms get priority. Sure its an extra 2 weeks, BUT my feeling is at least I know something is going on..  vs the unknown of how much longer it will take.
Now this situation may be different since they seem to be a little mentally challenged on this subject.. 
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Posted: 5/8/2014 1:44:13 PM EDT
[#25]
^^^^ There is no mechanism for fixing erros on e-forms. If you leave a field blank or otherwise make a mistake, you get rejected and have to start from scratch at the back of the line.
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Posted: 5/9/2014 9:41:49 AM EDT
[#26]
UPDATE: In addition to my phone conversation as posted above I left a voice mail with a specialist not expecting a return call. Well today I got a call from a specialist who gave me instructions, a name and a reference number to fax my AWC to prevent a delay in my processing. The person on the phone was surprisingly helpful. I dont know how I feel about this experience. It seems too good to be true.
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Posted: 5/9/2014 9:58:36 AM EDT
[#27]
You feel like this is too good to be true? Really?
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Posted: 5/9/2014 10:41:07 AM EDT
[#28]
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You feel like this is too good to be true? Really? Yea, That a government worker actually responded to a voicemail, was helpful,addressed and helped correct my issue. Completely opposite of the other rep I have talked to yesterday that basically said I was fucked and hung up on me. |
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Posted: 5/9/2014 1:13:17 PM EDT
[#29]
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You feel like this is too good to be true? Really? I know what he is saying. You can be against the entire notion of the NFA yet still be happy when an ATF employee goes above and beyond the EXPECTED level of service to get you through a difficult situation. |
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Posted: 5/9/2014 4:33:35 PM EDT
[#30]
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I know what he is saying. You can be against the entire notion of the NFA yet still be happy when an ATF employee goes above and beyond the EXPECTED level of service to get you through a difficult situation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You feel like this is too good to be true? Really? I know what he is saying. You can be against the entire notion of the NFA yet still be happy when an ATF employee goes above and beyond the EXPECTED level of service to get you through a difficult situation. Yeah, I see what he's saying now. |
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Posted: 6/22/2014 1:03:52 PM EDT
[#31]
bringing this back with an update of my own....
was trying to get an AW cert for a preban SBR that the paperwork is in process for. Got a call back from SLFU and they are currently working on the issue with the ATF and they should come to a conclusion in a couple of weeks. The woman told me the state does not consider a sbr a "new" firearm and the original manufacture date is all that they care about in regards to pre-ban status. not sure what the outcome will be but will post if I get any update. |
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Posted: 6/22/2014 1:50:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Good to see this is still being worked on. My senator's rep sent me a followup email last week about making progress on this issue.
I've been holding out on sbring my 10/22 over this issue and eforms being down. |
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Posted: 6/23/2014 4:24:02 AM EDT
[#33]
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Good to see this is still being worked on. My senator's rep sent me a followup email last week about making progress on this issue. I've been holding out on sbring my 10/22 over this issue and eforms being down. This isn't an overnight type of thing, no way your forms would be approved by the time the issue gets resolved. Send them in now, it's still the same waiting/procesing period |
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Posted: 6/23/2014 6:21:07 AM EDT
[#34]
Thanks for the update. I don't expect my form much before Sept/Oct. Here's hoping this gets resolved before then
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Posted: 6/24/2014 4:42:30 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
bringing this back with an update of my own.... was trying to get an AW cert for a preban SBR that the paperwork is in process for. Got a call back from SLFU and they are currently working on the issue with the ATF and they should come to a conclusion in a couple of weeks. The woman told me the state does not consider a sbr a "new" firearm and the original manufacture date is all that they care about in regards to pre-ban status. not sure what the outcome will be but will post if I get any update. Thanks for this update. |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 4:40:18 AM EDT
[#36]
Hope this helps guys....
I got a call this morning from one of the specialists. She asked if I had an AW cert for the receiver I was trying to sbr. I submitted this form 1 in either dec or jan FYI. So I said I do. She said oh great a lot of guys don't. So she said to email her a copy, and that I may receive a call from a CT state trooper....I'm not sure what that's about. So I sent my copy, and I should be all set and it looks like it should be approved soon. So if you have the cert, but didn't send it in, they'll contact you and ask for it, no big deal. |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 5:01:39 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hope this helps guys.... I got a call this morning from one of the specialists. She asked if I had an AW cert for the receiver I was trying to sbr. I submitted this form 1 in either dec or jan FYI. So I said I do. She said oh great a lot of guys don't. So she said to email her a copy, and that I may receive a call from a CT state trooper....I'm not sure what that's about. So I sent my copy, and I should be all set and it looks like it should be approved soon. So if you have the cert, but didn't send it in, they'll contact you and ask for it, no big deal. Hide your dog.....
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Posted: 7/2/2014 7:46:55 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hide your dog..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hope this helps guys.... I got a call this morning from one of the specialists. She asked if I had an AW cert for the receiver I was trying to sbr. I submitted this form 1 in either dec or jan FYI. So I said I do. She said oh great a lot of guys don't. So she said to email her a copy, and that I may receive a call from a CT state trooper....I'm not sure what that's about. So I sent my copy, and I should be all set and it looks like it should be approved soon. So if you have the cert, but didn't send it in, they'll contact you and ask for it, no big deal. Hide your dog..... Haha no, I found out why though. I actually won't hear from the state police, what the ATF is doing is asking the CSP if the applicant has an AW certificate for the Receiver or if not if it's a preban. The fact that I had an AW gets me off and clear, so there is no more holdup. It sounds like if you don't have an AW cert for a preban, than the CSP give you the option to register it so you can move forward with your form 1. |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 3:10:45 PM EDT
[#39]
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Haha no, I found out why though. I actually won't hear from the state police, what the ATF is doing is asking the CSP if the applicant has an AW certificate for the Receiver or if not if it's a preban. The fact that I had an AW gets me off and clear, so there is no more holdup. It sounds like if you don't have an AW cert for a preban, than the CSP give you the option to register it so you can move forward with your form 1. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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Hope this helps guys.... I got a call this morning from one of the specialists. She asked if I had an AW cert for the receiver I was trying to sbr. I submitted this form 1 in either dec or jan FYI. So I said I do. She said oh great a lot of guys don't. So she said to email her a copy, and that I may receive a call from a CT state trooper....I'm not sure what that's about. So I sent my copy, and I should be all set and it looks like it should be approved soon. So if you have the cert, but didn't send it in, they'll contact you and ask for it, no big deal. Hide your dog..... Haha no, I found out why though. I actually won't hear from the state police, what the ATF is doing is asking the CSP if the applicant has an AW certificate for the Receiver or if not if it's a preban. The fact that I had an AW gets me off and clear, so there is no more holdup. It sounds like if you don't have an AW cert for a preban, than the CSP give you the option to register it so you can move forward with your form 1. Good info. I wonder if I should preemptively get a cert for my preban that's pending on a Form 1. |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 3:35:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good info. I wonder if I should preemptively get a cert for my preban that's pending on a Form 1. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hope this helps guys.... I got a call this morning from one of the specialists. She asked if I had an AW cert for the receiver I was trying to sbr. I submitted this form 1 in either dec or jan FYI. So I said I do. She said oh great a lot of guys don't. So she said to email her a copy, and that I may receive a call from a CT state trooper....I'm not sure what that's about. So I sent my copy, and I should be all set and it looks like it should be approved soon. So if you have the cert, but didn't send it in, they'll contact you and ask for it, no big deal. Hide your dog..... Haha no, I found out why though. I actually won't hear from the state police, what the ATF is doing is asking the CSP if the applicant has an AW certificate for the Receiver or if not if it's a preban. The fact that I had an AW gets me off and clear, so there is no more holdup. It sounds like if you don't have an AW cert for a preban, than the CSP give you the option to register it so you can move forward with your form 1. Good info. I wonder if I should preemptively get a cert for my preban that's pending on a Form 1. Yea it definitely wouldn't hurt to get it registered now, so that way when they do contact you, you can say yes you have the cert, and you can move on quickly. |
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Posted: 7/2/2014 3:47:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Haha no, I found out why though. I actually won't hear from the state police, what the ATF is doing is asking the CSP if the applicant has an AW certificate for the Receiver or if not if it's a preban. The fact that I had an AW gets me off and clear, so there is no more holdup. It sounds like if you don't have an AW cert for a preban, than the CSP give you the option to register it so you can move forward with your form 1. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hope this helps guys.... I got a call this morning from one of the specialists. She asked if I had an AW cert for the receiver I was trying to sbr. I submitted this form 1 in either dec or jan FYI. So I said I do. She said oh great a lot of guys don't. So she said to email her a copy, and that I may receive a call from a CT state trooper....I'm not sure what that's about. So I sent my copy, and I should be all set and it looks like it should be approved soon. So if you have the cert, but didn't send it in, they'll contact you and ask for it, no big deal. Hide your dog..... Haha no, I found out why though. I actually won't hear from the state police, what the ATF is doing is asking the CSP if the applicant has an AW certificate for the Receiver or if not if it's a preban. The fact that I had an AW gets me off and clear, so there is no more holdup. It sounds like if you don't have an AW cert for a preban, than the CSP give you the option to register it so you can move forward with your form 1. That's bullshit!! It's preban, shouldn't have to register because the state and ATF are fucking retarted! |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 6:42:42 AM EDT
[#42]
What does this mean? : " asking the CSP if the applicant has an AW certificate for the Receiver or if not if it's a preban"
Does that mean the the CSP will certify to the ATF that it is a pre-ban. Why couldn't the ATF figure that out themselves? Nice that the CSP are willing to break the law to give you a cert. I am still hoping the gets straightened out at some point [before my Form 1 is examined], in the mean time I have all the papers ready to get a cert if needed. |
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Posted: 7/3/2014 7:58:06 AM EDT
[#43]
At least the ATF isn't retroactively asking those who did a Form 1 to submit an AW cert... yet.
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Posted: 7/23/2014 3:15:10 PM EDT
[#44]
UPDATE:
I got home today and there was a message on my machine from DESPP I was asked to call tomorrow about "my SBR application with the ATF" and I would need to come down and get an AW cert. . I will report back after I speak with her, but I have a couple concerns about this.whole process. A: WHY THE F do I have to reg my preban.. the whole reason i wanted to do this was so it wasn't reg'd
B: They knew I had it and knew where to find me and had my phone number. All of which are obvious. I bought it through a dealer after the 94 sunset, I am in the phone book, but still C: I have yet to get a letter from the ATF about this. Maybe the correction letters are being handle/returned to the state to deal with now in cases like this? D: If they let me get a cert for it now, PAST the time certs were supposed to be issued, what happens if they change their mind and decide that was illegal according to the law and now I have contraband. Part of me wants to forget this SBR and redo/resubmit the paperwork with a different AR I did reg, i know it will take another 9 months, but I got the time, i already have another one :) Anyways, that is all i have for now. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 3:22:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
UPDATE: I got home today and there was a message on my machine from DESPP I was asked to call tomorrow about "my SBR application with the ATF" and I would need to come down and get an AW cert. . I will report back after I speak with her, but I have a couple concerns about this.whole process. A: WHY THE F do I have to reg my preban.. the whole reason i wanted to do this was so it wasn't reg'd
B: They knew I had it and knew where to find me and had my phone number. All of which are obvious. I bought it through a dealer after the 94 sunset, I am in the phone book, but still C: I have yet to get a letter from the ATF about this. Maybe the correction letters are being handle/returned to the state to deal with now in cases like this? D: If they let me get a cert for it now, PAST the time certs were supposed to be issued, what happens if they change their mind and decide that was illegal according to the law and now I have contraband. Part of me wants to forget this SBR and redo/resubmit the paperwork with a different AR I did reg, i know it will take another 9 months, but I got the time, i already have another one :) Anyways, that is all i have for now. Yep I had the similar experience, except it was for a registered postban. My post above explains what happened in my situation. But so you know, the ATF contacted the state to find out if you registered it or not. When they said you didnt, it left the ATF's hands and is now between you and the state. If you go forth, you or the state will have to contact the ATF with the registration certificate.....its almost like a correction to your form, but it sounds like the state will notify them and you wont have to do anything else.(This is just a theory though). |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 3:33:34 PM EDT
[#46]
my biggest concern is D
D: If they let me get a cert for it now, PAST the time certs were supposed to be issued, what happens if they change their mind and decide that was illegal according to the law and now I have contraband. Does anyone have any concerns about this or am I being paranoid??? |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 3:38:18 PM EDT
[#47]
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my biggest concern is D D: If they let me get a cert for it now, PAST the time certs were supposed to be issued, what happens if they change their mind and decide that was illegal according to the law and now I have contraband. Does anyone have any concerns about this or am I being paranoid??? Honestly if it was me.....I'd say no thanks for the AW cert. Let the ATF deny your app. Then send in a new one with a registered postban receiver. ETA: When you send in the new app make sure to include 2 copies of your AW cert. |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:09:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Thanks. That is what I think I am going to do.
As noted.I already have one so I can use my uppers. If I was in a different situation not sure what id do. Now I need to start another clock to see how long it takes to get my refund back
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:14:11 PM EDT
[#49]
This shouldn't be that bad if you are on a trust with eform 1 back online.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now I need to start another clock to see how long it takes to get my refund back |
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Posted: 7/23/2014 4:24:11 PM EDT
[#50]
No trust
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