User Panel
How did the meetings go and what does the landscape look like as of today?
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Jamie Pedersen was appointed to the Senate to replace Murray, Laurie Jinkins has taken his place as House Judiciary Chair. Jinkins right now is not inclined to give the SBR bill a hearing; she is planning on giving only two gun bills any attention this session, the bkgd check bill and the safe gun storage bill. I met with Jinkins last week and wrote about it here; http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_8_15/548215_Meeting_with_Jinkins_on_SBR_bill.html
Jinkins wants to know more about SBR crime data in other states; this is hard to find. I only found SBR crime data for California. If anyone knows how to obtain this data, please do so and let me know more about it. Jinkins wants to know the opinion of the SBR bill from various gun control organizations like WA Cease Fire and the WAGR. I wrote to them the day I met with Jinkins but have not received an answer. Calling does not get me through to a live person. If anyone has any contacts within these organisations, please contact them. Jinkins wants to know the opinion of police officers/chiefs as regards the SBR bill. She told me that she had not heard from any police at all. This was disappointing to hear. If you are a police officer and want to have ready access to an SBR for you job and be able to legally train with it while not on duty, please tell this to Jinkins. Randy |
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That is not encouraging. I find it hard to find data for SBR crimes because they almost never happen. This makes me wonder if we are ever going to get SBR's passed at this rate. The Suppressor thing took this long, correct?
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Would it help if you told Jenkins that the only two NFA crimes you could find with registered SBR's were a while ago, and one of them was with a police officer with a FA weapon, not a SBR?
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Probably not. What I need is an authoritative government source that shows how much (or little) SBR crime there is in the USA. I was able to convince Jinkins that SBR crime is rare in WA, but I have zero official data for anywhere else besides California.
Ranb |
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That's probably because there has been no registered SBR crime. Can't find statistics on something that doesn't exist.
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Quoted:
That's probably because there has been no registered SBR crime. Can't find statistics on something that doesn't exist. View Quote Seriously, if this is the hurtle then we are doomed. How can she expect us to provide data on something that doesn't exist? Nobody is going to do a study or publish data if there isn't any data to be had. Maybe letters from Oregon or Idaho county sheriffs on how often SBRs are used in crimes in their counties would help? |
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Make that your point: there's so little SBR crime committed there's hardly any data to be gathered, and/or no ones wasted the time to collect it?
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I think that crime data is going to be the least of our worries right now.
I spoke with Senator Padden's aide this morning and was told that SB5956 might not be scheduled for a hearing this year. I was told that with the short session there was a lack of time. Padden's aide recommended that we get the House bill passed. He seemed to be surprised when I told him that the House Judiciary Chair wants to see a Senate bill passed in the Senate and brought to the House instead of taking action on House Bill 1561. I've made it clear in my numerous letters/e-mails in the past to Senator Padden that the House is looking for a Senate bill and is not much interested in HB 1561. I asked for some of Senator Padden's time for a meeting or telephone conversation but the aide would not make any kind of committment. I have two strikes against me whenever I call someone outside of district 35. I'm not one of their constituants and I only represent myself. I wish I could say that I represent the NRA or WAC, but they are not interested in the SBR/SBS issue. If I could find enough people to help with these unpopular bills we could form a collaition so we might have more influence. Is there anyone currently near Olympia who is a 4th district (Spokane area) voter? A 4th district person is going to have more pull at getting a meeting or conversation. Thanks. Randy Bragge 360 440-5889 |
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Have we thought about making an initaitive? How many signatures would we need?
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I really doubt the average WA citizen knows or cares about SBR/SBS to have much luck with an initiative.
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Senator Padden’s office called me to say that the SBR bill (SB5956) will be scheduled for a hearing next week on Wednesday or Friday. It is very important that we have some sort of police presence at the hearing to support the bill. While an individual like myself can say “I believe this” or I believe that”, nothing beats a police officer who tells the committee members why the police need SBR’s.
I can give a ride to one or two people on the day of the hearings to Olympia. Please call me to set up a ride. I will be driving from Belfair. Randy Bragge [email protected] (360) 440-5889 |
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Quoted: Senator Padden’s office called me to say that the SBR bill (SB5956) will be scheduled for a hearing next week on Wednesday or Friday. It is very important that we have some sort of police presence at the hearing to support the bill. While an individual like myself can say "I believe this” or I believe that”, nothing beats a police officer who tells the committee members why the police need SBR’s. I can give a ride to one or two people on the day of the hearings to Olympia. Please call me to set up a ride. I will be driving from Belfair. Randy Bragge [email protected] (360) 440-5889 View Quote So there's a chance this could happen? I'm not LEO, nor can I be there, but I let some friends/family that are LEO, know about it. |
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Hope you don't mind, but I went ahead and cross posted this (with a link and attribution) to seattleguns.net to try to round up someone for you.
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If anyone of us can be at the hearing, please do so. There are sign-in sheets at the hearing room so that you can sing in with your name and your position (for or against) each bill at the hearing. You don't have to speak, just being there and signing in is enough as it gives the committee some idea of the support a bill has.
There were over 200 people present to sign up against the last AWB, but never more than a dozen for the silencer bill, it was embarrassing to say the least. There is no reason why we can't get 50 people in Olympia for the SBR bill. Balog, I already posted this morning at SGN, but another threads sure does not hurt. Thanks. Randy |
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My buddy is friends with some LEO's here in Franklin County. I know they're gun guys too, one of them has an AR pistol. I'll see if I can get in contact with him, I'm sure he'd be interested and hopefully willing to write a letter or attend the hearing.
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Here is the schedule for happenings in Olympia. Calander Sign up here for e-mail alerts. E-mail alerts
Randy |
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The Wednesday schedule is published; no SB5956, it will probably be on Friday.
Randy |
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I would go, but I am scheduled to work that day. My boss wouldn't look too kindly on skipping work for this unfortunately.
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my response from Andy Hill.
Dear Gunrinwa, Thank you for this email about SB 5956 to ease restrictions on short-barreled rifles. I have not had a chance to engage with this legislation due to my duties as chair of Ways and Means, but I will make note of the information you provided for when this legislation moves forward. It's helpful to know that this brings the state into line with federal law and it has both bipartisan and law enforcement support. If I have questions, I will follow up with you. I appreciate you reaching out to me on this bill. Please keep in touch. Best Regards, Andy Hill Senator, 45th Legislative District Duvall, Kirkland, Redmond, Sammamish and Woodinville |
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I know this is probably a little late, and probably doesnt include SBRs, or Full Auto Weapon crimes. But it has an incredible amount of information on crime statistics.
Heres the link: Firearm Violence 1993-2011.PDF You can find more statistics here. ETA: I remember reading that there hasnt been any crime commited in the US with a Full Auto or SBR that is legally owned since the early 90's. Of course do not quote me on this as I do not have the facts to back it up as of right now. But I will get back you soon when I find it. |
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No data is late unless it is delivered after the bill is passed into law. haha The SBR bill is not a sure thing so anytime we get data is good. Thanks.
Randy |
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Has the hearing been scheduled? I'm hoping I can get the time off.
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Still getting nothing concrete from Padden's office. Anyone else been bothering him at all?
Randy |
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New Senate Committee of Law and Justice agenda is posted. Agenda
I594 (bkgd check) and I591 (protect gun rights) are scheduled for a hearing on 1/29 at 1:30 pm. There is a 8:00am meeting scheduled for the 31st, but no bills listed yet. The shipyard is sending me to San Diego for 45 days at the end of the month. I was planning on leaving on the 30th, but if the SBR bill is scheduled for Friday I'll delay my trip to make the hearing. I really want to speak to the committee about this bill, but we need others who are ready to attend and speak. Who is ready to do this? Randy |
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I can take some time from work to make sure I'm there for the hearing.
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It looks like I'll be able to make it. And I'll possibly be bringing a friend too.
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Any members on Wa guns that want to repost this? I hope to make it there. Going over the pass in a rear wheel drive Mustang is no fun.
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Washingtonian here just thanking you guys for fighting for our rights. I was at the state capital Tuesday(March for Life) and I almost visited my local reps.(Pam Roach, Chris Hurst, Dave Reichert and Cathy Dahlquist) but I didn`t know where their offices were or what exactly to say to them.(I felt like I should know what bill to ask them to support)
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Hey all.. wish I could be there; I'm going to try to work it out, but can't be sure yet. The hearing is just under a week away - there is still time for letters/calls to the reps who are on the Judiciary Committee. I've included a list here of all the members of the committee as well as their phone numbers and addresses. Let's make this happen! Thanks again to Randy, who has been instrumental.
Chair Rep. Laurie Jinkins (D) 27th LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 311 John L. O'Brien Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7930 Vice-Chair Rep. Drew Hansen (D) 23rd LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 369 John L. O'Brien Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7842 Members Rep. Jay Rodne (R) 5th LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 430 John L. O'Brien Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7852 Rep. Terry Nealey (R) 16th LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 404 John L. O'Brien Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7828 Rep. Roger Goodman (D) 45th LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 436B Legislative Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7878 Rep. Larry Haler (R) 8th LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 122D Legislative Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7986 Rep. Steve Kirby (D) 29th LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 437B Legislative Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7996 Rep. Brad Klippert (R) 8th LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 410 John L. O'Brien Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7882 Rep. Dick Muri (R) 28th LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 424 John L. O'Brien Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7890 Rep. Tina Orwall Deputy Speaker Pro Tempore (D) 33rd LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 326 John L. O'Brien Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7834 Rep. Mary Helen Roberts (D) 21st LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 420 John L. O'Brien Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7950 Rep. Matt Shea Assistant Minority Floor Leader (R) 4th LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 437 John L. O'Brien Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7984 Rep. Brady Walkinshaw (D) 43rd LEGISLATIVE DISTRICT Olympia Office: 328 John L. O'Brien Building PO Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600 (360) 786-7826 |
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Sentor Padden has scheduled SB 5956 for a hearing.
Law & Justice* - 01/31/14 8:00 am
Full Committee Senate Hearing Rm 2 J.A. Cherberg Building Olympia, WA Public Hearing: 1.SJR 8215 - Amending the state Constitution so that only persons who are qualified voters in a county are elected or appointed to the office of judge of the superior court for that county. 2.SB 5956 - Concerning short-barreled rifles. 3.SB 6198 - Protecting sport shooting ranges. 4.SB 6066 - Allowing for the restoration of firearms rights under certain conditions. 5.SB 6433 - Prohibiting discrimination by an individual or entity on the basis of creed. 6.SB 6310 - Clarifying the retention of biological material collected during criminal investigation. 7.SB 6118 - Protecting citizens from the application of foreign laws that would result in a violation of a constitutional right. View Quote The House Judiciary Committee hearing is on Tuesday 1/28/14 at 1:30 pm. The Senate Law and Justice Committee hearing is on Friday 1/31/14 at 8:00 am. I will be at the House hearing but am unable to attend the Senate hearing due to my trip to San Diego with the shipyard. These bills are making better headway than the silencer use bill did back in 2011. The House hearings are scheduled the same day as I-594 (bkgd checks) and I-591. Expect many people to be at the House hearings for the initiatives. The Senate hearings also include a range protection bill. Last session this bill brought out many people both pro and con. If you want to speak, it is important to arrive at least an hour early to be signed up near the top of the list. Randy |
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Via WA Gun Owners Action League: http://wagoal.org/wordpress/goal-post-2014-3/
GOAL Post 2014-3 Legislative Update from Olympia 23 January 2014 PUBLIC HEARINGS ON INITIATIVES I-594 CERTIFIED BY SOS; I-591 NEXT FIREARMS ON THE CAPITOL CAMPUS FORMAT CHANGE NEW BILL(S) FILED ADDITIONAL PUBLIC HEARING(S) SCHEDULED OPPOSE HB 2459/SB 6039 Public hearings will be conducted on Initiatives 591 (pro-gun) and 594 (anti-gun) on 28 January (House Judiciary) and 29 January (Senate Law & Justice). It is critical that as many individuals turn out as possible to attend BOTH of these hearings. A strong turnout sends a strong signal to both the legislature and to the media present of the support for, or opposition to, each of the initiatives. Signs and posters are not allowed inside the buildings, but we will be distributing "Guns Save Lives" stickers to participants. Parking in the vicinity of the Campus is tight, and Olympia loves to give tickets for illegal parking, so car pools are strongly encouraged. http://www.leg.wa.gov/legislature/Pages/Parking.aspx The House Judiciary Committee will conduct it's hearing on both initiatives at 1:30 p.m. on Tuesday, in House Hearing Room "A" in the John L. Obrien (House) Office Building. The Senate Law & Justice Committee will hear both initiatives at 1:30 p.m. on Wednesday in Senate Hearing Room "1" in the John A. Cherberg Senate Office Building. Sign-up sheets will likely be posted outside the hearing rooms. Please come early and sign in FOR I-591 and AGAINST I-594. (And just before I sent this, House Judiciary chair Rep. Laurie Jinkins (D-27) announced she would also hear HB 1561 -- legalizing short-barreled rifles under state law -- in conjunction with her hearing on the initiatives Tuesday afternoon.) The Secretary of State announced on Wednesday that the count of signatures for I-=594 was completed, and the initiative has sufficient signatures to move forward. The count on I-591 is underway as you read this. And here is where I alienate some of you on the list. Carry is legal on the Capitol Campus. But both committee chairs have asked that no one OPEN carry in deference to the victims the other side is expected to bring in. I know, and for the most part agree with, the arguments for open carry. But occasionally discretion is the better part of valor. This is NOT the time to push the issue. In fact, the most likely reaction to such activity is a change in the law banning ALL firearms on the Campus. That does no one any good. Please be discrete. I've merged the "Bill Status" and "GOAL Position" segments to make for easier linking of the two. The GOAL position on a given bill will appear immediately below the bill information. One new firearm-related bill was filed this week. SB 6245, by Sen. Brian Dansel (R-7) makes technical fixes to the existing law requiring surrender of a CPL held by anyone convicted of certain offenses. A public hearing will be conducted on SB 6199, a bill restricting the use of incendiary or tracer ammunition and incendiary devices. I have taken a position to oppose HB 2459 and SB 6039, bills dealing with hunter education training. I support the intent of hunter education training. I was first certified by the State of California as a Hunter Safety instructor in 1973. Hunter education training was developed by the NRA in the 1930s. Hunter Ed instruction is currently conducted by volunteer instructors. But this bill allows the Department of Fish and Wildlife to set a registration fee "of not more than $20" to take the course. Revenues collected shall be used to reimburse volunteer instructors for out-of-pocket expenses and other purposes. I oppose the bills as written because I believe $20 is too high and will evolve into a cash cow for DFW. Instructors deserve to be reimbursed, but a $20 fee for the course may act as a bar to certifying young hunters. BILL STATUS/GOAL POSITION: The following 28 bills filed in 2013 remain under consideration in the 2014 session: Bill # Subject Sponsor Status HB 1096 Juvi illegal firearm possession Hurst (D-31) H. Jud CONCERNS HB 1147 1st degree juvi unlawful possess. Goodman (D-45) H. Jud CONCERNS HB 1184 Range protection Takko (D-19) H. Jud SUPPORT HB 1318 CPL renewal notice Taylor (R-15)H. Jud SUPPORT HB 1371 WA Firearms Freedom Act Taylor (R-15)H. Jud SUPPORT HB 1561 Short barreled rifles Blake (D-19)H. Jud SUPPORT SHB 1588 Background checks Pedersen (D-43) H. Jud OPPOSE HB 1676 Mandatory safe storage Kagi (D-32) H. Jud OPPOSE HB 1703 Gun "safety" training and tax Jinkins (D-27)H. Jud OPPOSE HB 1729 Street gangs Warnick (R-13) H. Jud SUPPORT HB 1788 Firearms/school employees Pike (R-18)H. Jud SUPPORT SHB 1839 Background checks Goodman (D-45) H. Jud SUPPORT HB 1840 Firearms/restraining orders Goodman (D-45)H. Rules OPPOSE HB 1908 Firearms on school property Scott (R-39) H. Jud SUPPORT HB 2020 Firearms-related jobs Shea (R-4)H. Jud SUPPORT HB 2164 Juvenile firearm possession Orwall (D-33) H. Jud EVALUATING HB 2324 Use of force Shea (R-4) H, Jud SUPPORT HB 2459 Hunter safety Blake (D-19) H. Ag/NatRes OPPOSE AS WRITTEN HB 2475 Short barreled rifles/shotguns Overstreet (R-42) H. Jud SUPPORT HB 2502 Delivery to peace officers Klippert (R-8) H. Jud SUPPORT HB 2529 Sales tax exemption on firearms Overstreet (R-42) H. Finance SUPPORT SB 5376 Juvi illegal firearm possession Kline (D-37) S. W&M CONCERNS SSB 5452 Stalking protection orders Conway (D-29)S. Rules CONCERNS SB 5478 Firearms/mental health court Keiser (D-33)S. L&J CONCERNS SB 5479 Safekeeping of firearms Keiser (D-33) S. L&J OPPOSE SB 5485 Mandatory safe storage Kline (D-37) S. L&J OPPOSE SB 5604 NRA license plates Hatfield (D-19) S. Trans NEUTRAL SB 5625 Background checks Kline (D-37) S. L&J OPPOSE SB 5635 Restoration of firearm rights Darneille (D-27) S. L&J OPPOSE SB 5660 Firearm safety education Chase (D-32) S. K-12 SUPPORT SB 5710 Mandatory safe storage Kohl-Welles (D-46) S. L&J OPPOSE SB 5711 Background checks Kline (D-37) S. L&J OPPOSE SB 5737 Ban on sale of "assault weapons" Murray (D-43)S. L&J OPPOSE SB 5739 Ban on guns in parks Murray (D-43) S. L&J OPPOSE SB 5831 Prohibits double tax on clay pigeonsty6 Rivers (R-18)S. Rules SUPPORT SB 5956 Short-barreled rifles Hatfield (D-19)S. L&J SUPPORT SB 6025 Use of body armor O’Ban (R-28) S. L&J NEUTRAL SB 6039 Hunter safety Pearson (R-39) S. NatRes OPPOSE AS WRITTEN SB 6066 Restoration of rights Honeyford (R-15) S. L&J SUPPORT SB 6198 Range protection Roach (R-31) S. L&J SUPPORT SB 6199 Wildfires/incendiary devices Braun (R-20) S. NatRes EVALUATING SB 6245 Surrender of CPL Dansel (R-7) S. L&J EVALUATING Key to abbreviations: S. = Senate, H. = House, Ag/NatRes = Agriculture/Natural Resources, Fin = Finance, Jud = Judiciary, K-12 = Education, L&J = Law & Justice, NatRes = Natural Resources & Parks, Trans = Transportation, W&M = Ways and Means HEARING(S) SCHEDULED: 28 JanuaryI-591/594House Judiciary Committee 1:30 p.m.House Hearing Room "A"John L. O'Brien Bldg (JLOB) 28 JanuarySB 6199Senate Natural Resources & Parks Committee 1:30 p.m.Senate Hearing Room "1"John A. Cherberg Bldg (JAC) 29 JanuaryI-591/594Senate Law & Justice Committee 1:30 p.m.Senate Hearing Room "1"John A. Cherberg Bldg (JAC) LEGISLATIVE HOT LINE: You may reach your Representatives and Senator by calling the Legislative Hotline at 1-800-562-6000. Toll free!!! The hearing impaired may obtain TDD access at 1-800-635-9993. Also toll free!!! 1-800-562-6000 TDD 1-800-635-9993 OTHER DATA: Copies of pending legislation (bills), legislative schedules and other information are available on the legislature's web site at "www.leg.wa.gov". Bills are available in Acrobat (.pdf) format. You may download a free version of Adobe Acrobat Reader from Adobe's web site (http://www.adobe.com). You may also obtain hard copy bills, initiatives, etc, in the mail from the Legislative Bill Room FREE OF CHARGE by calling 1-360-786-7573. Copies of bills may also be ordered toll free by calling the Legislative Hotline at (800) 562-6000. You may also hear floor and committee hearing action live at http://www.tvw.org/ (you need "RealAudio" to do this, available free at the TVW web site). By reading the House and Senate "bill reports" (hbr, sbr) for each bill, you can see how individual committee members voted. By reading the "roll call" for each bill, you can see how the entire House or Senate voted on any bill. The beauty of the web site is that ALL this information is available, on line, to any citizen. GET THE WORD OUT: If you want to subscribe to the GOAL Post by e-mail, send a message to "[email protected]" or to "[email protected].". Please pass GOAL Post on to anyone you believe may have an interest in protecting our rights. Better yet, make a couple of copies of this message, post it on your gun club’s bulletin board, and leave copies with your local gun shop(s). PERMISSION IS HEREBY GRANTED TO DUPLICATE OR REDISTRIBUTE GOAL POST PROVIDED IT IS REPRODUCED IN ITS ENTIRETY WITHOUT TEXTUAL MODIFICATION AND CREDIT IS GIVEN TO GOAL. I can be reached at "[email protected]" or by telephone at (425) 985-4867. Unfortunately, I am unable to mail hard copy GOAL Post to individuals. Limited numbers of hard copies MAY be available at the Second Amendment Foundation book table at WAC gun shows. Upcoming WAC gun show(s): Monroe 15-16 February Puyallup 22-23 February "The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men." Article 1, Section 24 Constitution of the State of Washington Copyright 2014 Gun Owners Action League of WA |
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I will at least make some phone calls and send emails.
Besides being "generally good" because it supports the 2nd Amendment, and because having SBR's would be "cool," what are some other logical arguments / bullet points that we can bring up when contacting the politicians? Good for LE because they are easier to work with & store in the police car? Good for home defense because they are easier to handle in a dark hallway? Should we even try to argue logical support points like that? I guess what I'm asking is: What is the most effective way to convince our reps that allowing SBRs in WA in a good thing? |
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When I speak at the hearing I plan on saying that they are merely more compact than a full sized rifle. This is sometimes desired by hunters and target shooters.
Randy |
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I can't make it on Tuesday unfortunately. Thanks to those who are attending.
Some points to make on SBRs that politicians are unaware of: - SBRs are tightly regulated by the ATF under the National Firearms Act, and are individually registered by the owner for a $200 tax. - WA is one of only six states that restrict SBRs. They are legal in all Western states except CA and WA. (source http://www.submachinegun.net/sbsconr.htm) - There's very little crime with illegal SBRs, and crime with registered SBRs is unheard of. - As Randy said, they are popular with shooters, veterans and LEO because of lighter weight and convenience. This bill allows law abiding WA gun owners to own SBRs, and for the criminal they remain illegal. Remember, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar! |
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To those of you going- thank you. I have been emailing and unfortunately will be unavailable to attend.
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I think one particular line from Solipsist's post needs to be stressed...
Please, DO NOT open carry if you are going to the hearing! It will do nothing to help our position on any of these bills. Yes, you can legally do it, but please use some discretion in this situation. |
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Best of luck to those who are attending and thank you guys for doing this.
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Much appreciation to those who keep pushing this forward. I won't be able to make the hearing, but I did email all of the committee members listed above with my comments in support of HB1561.
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I have two SBR builds planned in my head. I'd be ready to file on the very first day. I really hope the hearing goes well.
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