I would like your opinions on the Speer 64gr Gold Dot vs the IMI 77gr OTM.

I will be shooting from 11.5 inch and 14.5 inch barrels (both 1:7 barrels)...mainly the 11.5 as my go to.

Does the IMI offer barrier performance at all? I'm looking for SHTF ammo out of my short barrels.

The only thing I can offer is that IMI 77gr OTM is most accurate of anything I've tried out of my 10.5 LMT.

Not sure about barrier performance. Would like to know too.

77gr OTM are not barrier blind; Golddots/Fusion are.  OTMs will require higher impact speeds to break apart than GDs/Fs will need to expand.  If you are going short barrel, GoldDots will be better.

Its an old quote but worth a thought:

Poster says: I don't see how home defense differs from an LE urban entry. Most civilians have no need to shoot into vehicles with their AR-15s which is where bonded loads have a distinct advantage over OTMs. I also firmly believe that a fragmenting OTM will cause more soft tissue damage than a bonded bullet that expands, and retains most of its weight. This is critical inside the home where the threat is possibly only feet away.

Doc Roberts responds: I am aware of a couple LE entry situations the last several years where fragmenting .223 projectiles failed to incapacitate suspects who were behind walls, furniture, and other cover while shooting at LE officers. In those situations, I suspect barrier blind projectiles would have given officers an advantage at ending the fight...

Gold Dot. Great all around bullet.

The IMI 77 grain Razor Core is loaded with the 77 grain Sierra MatchKing.  It's essentially a clone of MK262.

The pic below compares MK262 to M855 fired into 10% ordnance gel after passing through auto safety-glass at a distance of 100 yards.







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I feel like I just answered this question in another thread lol.

Based on the testing I've done, I settled on a "get both" mentality but slightly different rounds than the two you're asking about. I went with BH 77gr TMK and Fusion MSR. Terminally speaking, they have very similar properties to the IMI Razor Core and the 64gr Gold Dot.

The added benefit of the "dual" standard is that I have more flexibility in choosing what round to use in a given situation.

Here is a Link to a thread I did of some various ammo loadings last fall out of a 10.5 and 12.5 barrel. I only tested velocity last fall, from which I extrapolated "effective" ranges from TMK and MSR, based on known minimum expansion velocities. Razorcore was also tested and I found it acceptable from a shorty

Doc Roberts quote puts it into perspective for me. Given my situation where I live in the country with no neighbors to concern myself. I would much rather be shooting the 64gr Gold Dots when defending myself. I want the penetration through barriers the bad guy is hiding behind and then expansion causing the maximum incapacitation. I can understand those living in close proximity to others or small children that over penetration can be of concern to those people. The Fusion MSR and Gold Dots are on my radar now for stocking.

Good call. I went MSR mostly because that's what was on sale at the time I stocked. If I was looking for a barrier round right now, I would get the 64gr GD at Palmetto for $.50/round.

Please note, there IS a difference between Fusion MSR and Fusion. I documented a much faster MV with MSR in my velocity tests last fall.

I started out with the Fusion MSR but when Gold Dots went on sale at Palmetto I jumped on them. I will be buying more at $.50 a round as funds allow. I don't think there is a better quality barrier blind round for the money. Some much higher in price but the Gold Dots are offering me the opportunity to stock up at a reasonable price.

Can't fault that logic at all. I have some 64gr GD's on the way for a future ammo test out of 10.5, 12.5 and 14.5 barrels. I'll get side by side comparisons of both velocity and accuracy for both the 64gr GD and Fusion MSR, and a bunch of other loads.

Federal 62 Grain Fusion vs Federal 62 Grain Fusion MSR vs Speer LE 62 Grain Gold Dot






The muzzle velocities shown in the tables below were obtained back-to-back during the same chronograph session using recent lots of all three of the Fusion/Gold Dot loads chrongographed.

Atmospheric Conditions

Temperature:  73 degrees F (plus or minus one degree)
Barometric Pressure:  29.68 inches of Hg
Humidity:  62%
Altitude:  950 feet above sea level  



Muzzle velocities from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7” twist.







Muzzle velocities from a 14.5 Noveske N4 light barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7’ twist.






10-shot groups were fired from one of my precision AR-15s with a Lothar-Walther barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8” twist.  The groups were fired from the bench at a distance of 100 yards with the same sight settings on the scope for each of the three groups.






















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Just an observation about a comment posted above.

A good bonded "barrier blind" bullet, such as the Gold Dot, isn't going to penetrate glass or drywall or furniture and then expand when it hits the target. It will expand as soon as it hits the barrier. The beauty of bonded projectiles is that they retain their full weight, or close to it, once passing through the barrier.

You 64 gr bullet will still be close to 64 gr and not a fragment of the base.

Probably unnecessary for me to post this but I hear the misconception sometimes that bonded bullets pass through barriers more or less pristine and only expand in the target.

I'm a hunter and have some experience in terminal ballistics on big game.   I see analogies in bullet performance for home defense.  I've learned that bonded soft points and monolithic expanding hunting bullets perform under the most rigorous conditions, expanding, penetrating deeply and retaining close to 100% of their weight.

An animal that moves at the last moment or presents  less than ideal angle may be very much like a barrier blind in that the bullet may have to pass through bone or heavy muscle or both to reach the vitals.

No serious hunter of deer size or larger soft skinned game would intentionally use OTM or other Hague Convention compliant ammo.

Nor would our military, if given the choice and allowed by Hague Convention or other restrictions or requirements.

I don't understand the desire to use military compliant ammunition for home defense or for serious hunting of larger game.  We don't have those restrictions and should not feel bound by them.

Yes, Gold Dot or 62 grain Barnes TTSX for me for home defense.