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Pretty good I would say from a 10.5" with the 193 especially...
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I have nothing else CoC compliant to say...
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There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
--Victor Hugo |
Great info thanks for posting! I like what that fusion is doing out of a short barrel, should get expansion out to nearly 300 yards.
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Teener Crew for life.
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Those are all good velocities from a 10.5" barrel.
There are "slow" barrels and there are "fast" barrels... judging by your velocities.... you got a "fast" one. How far away was the chrono from the muzzle? BTW, those of you looking to buy Fusion... make sure it is the MSR version... it is a little faster. And as a gloat comment ... I scored some Fusion on BF weekend for $8.00 per box... factory fresh... Now back to the 10.5" barrel... How is the accuracy with such a short barrel ? |
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM |
shame i'm not out that way. I would be interesting to test my 11.5" noveske against it to see what the difference is.
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It's time to quit worrying and learn to love the battle axe. History teaches us that if we don't, someone else will. Jack Donovan
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Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Those are all good velocities from a 10.5" barrel. There are "slow" barrels and there are "fast" barrels... judging by your velocities.... you got a "fast" one. How far away was the chrono from the muzzle? BTW, those of you looking to buy Fusion... make sure it is the MSR version... it is a little faster. And as a gloat comment ... I scored some Fusion on BF weekend for $8.00 per box... factory fresh... Now back to the 10.5" barrel... How is the accuracy with such a short barrel ? View Quote Chrono was at 12 feet. I bought a case and a half from PSA for $10 each, pre BF. At $8 I probably would have bought 3 cases Haven't tested accuracy yet because...It's complicated lol... The range I was at yesterday was closed for hunting season when I wanted to sight in so I ended up taking it to an indoor range and sighted it in at 46yds (their longest range). With the M4s and 3X mag I had several 3 shot groups ranging in size between a dime and a quarter with the 77gr TMK and they were all right around quarter size with the MSR. My normal range is what I went to yesterday and the only place I can really set up a chrono is the 200 yard range 1) because almost no one shoots from that pad and 2) because the concrete is wider and 3) because the shooting tables aren't chained down so I can move them. I set up a silhouette target and shot every round into that. Most hit center mass but I didn't account for an 8 mph crosswind because I wasn't testing for accuracy, just the chrono results. Like I said...complicated. |
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There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
--Victor Hugo |
There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
--Victor Hugo |
Great info. I have a suppressed 10.5" AR too but I've never gotten around to chrono'ing all the ammo I shoot. I did chrono some 55 grain Ballistic Tip loads though. I primarily shoot XM193 out of that gun and the Ballistic Tips are for critters.
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Better to have and not need than need and not have
Two out of three ain't bad, especially when one of 'em is a head shot. كافر |
Originally Posted By TheOldRepublic:
Just a heads up PSA has federal fusion for $11.99 a box currently. Up $2 from Black Friday sale. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By TheOldRepublic:
Originally Posted By LS1POWERED:
Great info thanks for posting! I like what that fusion is doing out of a short barrel, should get expansion out to nearly 300 yards. Just a heads up PSA has federal fusion for $11.99 a box currently. Up $2 from Black Friday sale. Massammo has it in stock $80/200, although it is the regular fusion, not MSR. |
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I'll pick up a box of regular fusion for a future test and put up 10 more rounds of MSR to get a side by side. Probably won't be until spring though. It gets COLD here (usually)
Was out & about tonight and found a box of regular Fusion 62gr. See below for next test info! |
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There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
--Victor Hugo |
I'm going to shoot for a 2nd test the week of Christmas. The weather here should be similar to the last test but I'll retest both the Fusion MSR and BH 77gr TMK to give it a baseline.
Does anyone have any specific loads they would like to see tested out of a 10.5? I don't have too much time but I can look for some and try to get them in before I do another test. Also, LS1POWERED offered to send me a couple of his favorite loads to test and I'd like to offer that to anyone else if you're interested. Please keep it to factory loads but if you're interested, shoot me an IM and we can work it out! So far I have: Hornady TAP-FPD 75gr Fusion 62gr (Non MSR) Barnes VOR-TX 62gr TSX Barnes VOR-TX 70gr TSX IMI 77gr OTM Razor Core |
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There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
--Victor Hugo |
Great info. Thanks for taking the time to chrono everything, it's appreciated. Btw, your pictures of the charts came out excellent.
facepalm |
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great test
what kind of m193? |
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"If you cant do something smart, do something right"
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There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
--Victor Hugo |
stupid question.
Does bc change based on barrel length? |
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Originally Posted By capcapcapcap:
stupid question. Does bc change based on barrel length? View Quote Yes, no, maybe so. Ballistic coefficient doesn't change because of barrel length...but it can change based on velocity (for example, Sierra offers velocity-banded G1 BCs), and velocity is dependent on barrel length. |
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Originally Posted By capcapcapcap:
stupid question. Does bc change based on barrel length? View Quote Not stupid...but not really the right question either. A ballistic coefficient is a measurement of an object's ability to overcome air resistance. The slower an object travels, the more susceptible it is to the effects of air resistance. Basically, a bullet fired at a lower velocity will slow down faster because the air around it has a greater effect on it. How much of an effect it has is based on the BC of the bullet to begin with, and the higher the better there. The shorter barrel doesn't "cause" the issue but it contributes to it because it pushes the bullet at a lower velocity to begin with. That's why I'm taking this test so seriously. I want to find the BEST HD/SD rounds for my new shorty. My reading on the subject led me the the MSR and 77 TMK loads because of their reported good performance at lower velocities. I'm not done testing and while I think those are going to be my 'go to' loads for this gun, I have by no means ruled others out. BTW, I should have some results up next week from round 2. |
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There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
--Victor Hugo |
Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:
Federal American Eagle XM193...Know how I know you just scrolled to the results? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:
Originally Posted By 03RN:
great test what kind of m193? Federal American Eagle XM193...Know how I know you just scrolled to the results? sorry Im on my phone and some pics dont show up. |
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"If you cant do something smart, do something right"
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very timely. I just got an 11.5" barrel
I think after getting the sights close it will be fed nothing but my 77 nosler cc reloads |
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"If you cant do something smart, do something right"
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
sorry Im on my phone and some pics dont show up. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By 03RN:
Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:
Originally Posted By 03RN:
great test what kind of m193? Federal American Eagle XM193...Know how I know you just scrolled to the results? sorry Im on my phone and some pics dont show up. Ha, no worries. I was just bustin' your chops anyway |
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There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
--Victor Hugo |
Second test update in OP
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There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
--Victor Hugo |
Awesome, thanks for the second test!
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Nice. Thanks for the second test.
The Barnes 70gr numbers are impressive out of a 10.5" barrel. The Fusion numbers are interesting. The 223 standard Fusion being much slower than the MSR. Glad I've been stocking up on the MSR. Need to chorno my 10.5 Rainier match barrel and see how it compares. Ill run it suppressed with my Omega also. |
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Great write up. I did the same thing two years ago when i first got my 10.5". TMK wasnt around and I didnt have IMI, so it is good to see those numbers. You numbers confirm that Fusion, TMK and TSX are great HD loads with an SBR.
These numbers should go in Zhukov data. |
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Great update! I have been stocking up on the fusion and TMK and looks like I will continue! The 62g Barns gets moving out of a 10.5" barrel, very impressive.
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Blown away at that 70 TSX velocity, and very pleasantly surprised at the 77 TMK velocity.
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Glad to help guys. I'll be doing more as time and weather permit...I have quite a few half full boxes now and it seems a waste to just use them as blasting ammo. Maybe I'll wait until Spring/Summer for the next major test so I can see what the differences are in warm temps. Here are some observations I had about this test:
This test ended the debate (for me) about Fusion vs Fusion MSR. The MSR has to be loaded much closer to 5.56 spec to create a 150+ fps difference, all other things being equal. Not saying the Fusion is bad by any means, it's just not quite as fast at the muzzle. It was nice to see the consistency of the MSR and TMK loads at sub freezing temps compared to the test at 44 degrees. All the ammo was sitting on a table for about a half hour before being tested and before that was in the back of a cold truck for about an hour so I assume it was very close to ambient temp. The IMI 77gr OTM is well within the curve of an ammo I'd use in this gun. It was among the more inconsistent (extreme spread) but it looks to be a great budget option.**Most rounds were close but one was significantly HIGHER velocity than the pack. Take that one 'flier' out as the ES is 101. Still not great but better. I was very pleasantly surprised with the Barnes, both 62gr and 70gr. I didn't think they'd be that good considering the 55gr results but I forgot that the 55gr is loaded to .223 specs whereas both the 62gr and 70gr were loaded to 5.56 specs. I'll need to do some more research on velocity floors for those two rounds. Does anybody have info on the velocity floor for either or both rounds? I've heard 2300 and 1900 for TSX bullets but I'm not sure which exact bullets those numbers are for, hence the need for more research. I was really only disappointed in the 75gr TAP-FPD. I would venture a guess that the T2 is better but I haven't gotten around to acquiring any. Nosler Defense 64gr bonded seems decent but I don't know much about the round as this was a test requested (and supplied) by LS1POWERED. He's also sending me some 70gr gmx for a future test. i never want to be relegated to M193 or M855 in this gun for SD/HD. I suppose at HD ranges I'll get some M193 fragmentation but just...no. |
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There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
--Victor Hugo |
Originally Posted By gotigers:
Great write up. I did the same thing two years ago when i first got my 10.5". TMK wasnt around and I didnt have IMI, so it is good to see those numbers. You numbers confirm that Fusion, TMK and TSX are great HD loads with an SBR. These numbers should go in Zhukov data. View Quote Agree - great info. OP please IM Zhukov with the data or a link so he can add this to the list in the FAQ. No sense in loosing all that great data. |
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Posted by David_Hineline-----got to love this
Hey you got a lot of silenced guns, you must be an assasin since you have the equipment. Hey your wife's got a vagina, she must be a prostitute. Since she's got the equpment |
Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:
snip... I was really only disappointed in the 75gr TAP-FPD. I would venture a guess that the T2 is better but I haven't gotten around to acquiring any. snip... View Quote When I built my 10.5 SBR, I tested a few loads and here are the results from Hornady. See the archived thread here, for the TL:DR crowd, below are the TAP results. Hornady TAP 75gr T2 BTHP: 2492 ES 68 fps 2433 AVG 2458 fps 2446 2455 2537 2496 2478 2346 2464 2458 Great velocity, but the groups were the worst of the bunch. edited for grammer. |
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Originally Posted By gotigers:
When I built my 10.5 SBR, I tested a few loads and here are the results from Hornady. See the archived thread heare, for the TL:DR crowd, below is the TAP results. Hornady TAP 75gr T2 BTHP: 2492 ES 68 fps 2433 AVG 2458 fps 2446 2455 2537 2496 2478 2346 2464 2458 Great velocity, but the groups were the worst of the bunch. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By gotigers:
Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:
snip... I was really only disappointed in the 75gr TAP-FPD. I would venture a guess that the T2 is better but I haven't gotten around to acquiring any. snip... When I built my 10.5 SBR, I tested a few loads and here are the results from Hornady. See the archived thread heare, for the TL:DR crowd, below is the TAP results. Hornady TAP 75gr T2 BTHP: 2492 ES 68 fps 2433 AVG 2458 fps 2446 2455 2537 2496 2478 2346 2464 2458 Great velocity, but the groups were the worst of the bunch. Thanks for posting that! Also, I just sent Zhukov an IM about the thread, we'll see if he adds it. |
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There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
--Victor Hugo |
Got it - I just added them to the spreadsheet and will publish the updated version shortly.
[ETA] It's updated. |
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Daddy loves you. Now go away.
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Posted by David_Hineline-----got to love this
Hey you got a lot of silenced guns, you must be an assasin since you have the equipment. Hey your wife's got a vagina, she must be a prostitute. Since she's got the equpment |
Great job!
Looks like Fusion MSR continues to be a great choice for SBRs. Temporary cavity damage out to ~200 and expansion to 300+! |
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Much of your pain is self-chosen. It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self; Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquillity.
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3rd test today, update in OP!
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There is nothing so powerful as an idea whose time has come.
--Victor Hugo |
Bump, cause this is good shit for fellow SBR..ers. Hard to find data frankly. Man that TMK and MSR is good stuff.
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Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good. ~Paine
So, Which Jeff Epstein Buddy Did YOU Vote For?... Me Too! :-D USA! USA! |
Originally Posted By VelveteenMole:
Bump, cause this is good shit for fellow SBR..ers. Hard to find data frankly. Man that TMK and MSR is good stuff. View Quote I was going to do it last year with about 30 loads but I blew out a disk in my neck. I ended up acquiring a few more over the winter and the more the merrier. |
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Time to DRAIN THE SWAMP. |
Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:
I've got a bigger test coming up and it'll also be posted in the Ammo forum. 38 (I think) loads from a bunch of manufacturers velocity tested from 10.5, 11.5, 12.5 and 14.5 barrels. Retesting M193, M855, 62 TSX, 70 TSX, MSR, TMK and adding some other basic loads like Wolf Gold, MEN, a couple different IMI loads, some steel case loads, all three flavors of gold dots, a couple different SMK loads, etc. This one will take multiple range trips! I was going to do it last year with about 30 loads but I blew out a disk in my neck. I ended up acquiring a few more over the winter and the more the merrier. View Quote |
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Independence is my happiness, and I view things as they are, without regard to place or person; my country is the world, and my religion is to do good. ~Paine
So, Which Jeff Epstein Buddy Did YOU Vote For?... Me Too! :-D USA! USA! |
Originally Posted By VelveteenMole:
Very, very cool. I hope your neck is doing better! Thanks for the major contribution to data available. View Quote I intended the bigger test to just be an extension of the original posted here but enough time has passed that I'm just going to start fresh. If there's large velocity anomalies with the previously tested rounds (because of temperature differences), I'll post these results and explain but otherwise this will be completely new. |
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Time to DRAIN THE SWAMP. |
Looking forward to these results !
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*Hold on to your AR-15s. Their magic must be very powerful, or they wouldn’t want them.*
JAFOM.... Just another fat old man. |
Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:
I've got a bigger test coming up and it'll also be posted in the Ammo forum. 38 (I think) loads from a bunch of manufacturers velocity tested from 10.5, 11.5, 12.5 and 14.5 barrels. Retesting M193, M855, 62 TSX, 70 TSX, MSR, TMK and adding some other basic loads like Wolf Gold, MEN, a couple different IMI loads, some steel case loads, all three flavors of gold dots, a couple different SMK loads, etc. This one will take multiple range trips! I was going to do it last year with about 30 loads but I blew out a disk in my neck. I ended up acquiring a few more over the winter and the more the merrier. View Quote Please remember to pm Zhukov so he can add it to the ammo list. We don't want to lose all the great testing you are doing. . |
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FHRC
TRUMP TRAIN 2016 - pepe |
Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:
I've got a bigger test coming up and it'll also be posted in the Ammo forum. 38 (I think) loads from a bunch of manufacturers velocity tested from 10.5, 11.5, 12.5 and 14.5 barrels. Retesting M193, M855, 62 TSX, 70 TSX, MSR, TMK and adding some other basic loads like Wolf Gold, MEN, a couple different IMI loads, some steel case loads, all three flavors of gold dots, a couple different SMK loads, etc. This one will take multiple range trips! I was going to do it last year with about 30 loads but I blew out a disk in my neck. I ended up acquiring a few more over the winter and the more the merrier. View Quote |
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Originally Posted By LS1POWERED:
Awesome, I was looking forward to this list getting more extensive! View Quote Was planning on doing all the 10.5 testing tomorrow but the forecast is for rain and cool temps in my AO. I'm going to wait until its a bit warmer so I think I'll sandblast a few AR's and maybe cerakote if I have time instead. |
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Time to DRAIN THE SWAMP. |
Bump
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