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Posted: 4/18/2015 10:26:23 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm thinking this should go to GD for a broader audience.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 10:43:42 PM EDT
[#2]
I don't see anything in the web stating such.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 10:49:53 PM EDT
[#3]
I'm interested in knowing more as well. And agreed on moving it to General Discussion. Might help find the answer.
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Posted: 4/18/2015 11:28:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm thinking this should go to GD for a broader audience. I'm thinking that right here in AR pistols is the first place that will show reported news if indeed there is a new ruling of any kind. I suspect the usual erroneous LGS/Wally bull crap must have rubbed off on the guy. - OS |
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Posted: 4/18/2015 11:31:43 PM EDT
[#5]
have seen nothing so far on that subject
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Posted: 4/19/2015 12:04:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Did his badge look like this?
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Posted: 4/19/2015 1:47:42 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryIt was a leather flip book type didn't look much at the actual badge minus the CAC(looks like military ID) ID that said special agent on it...not sure if you think I'm just trying to stir something up or what but I have no reason to doubt who he said he was as he seemed to be well known in the shop. |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 6:06:39 AM EDT
[#8]
ATF = Contradiction
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Posted: 4/19/2015 10:46:53 AM EDT
[#9]
I think the whole thing was to slow down the proliferation of the Sig and now Shockwave brace phenomena. Which it absolutely did just that. I think they know it in reality, would be a hard sell to actually prosecute someone with the use of one. Just my opinion, of course
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Posted: 4/19/2015 12:48:52 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It was a leather flip book type didn't look much at the actual badge minus the CAC(looks like military ID) ID that said special agent on it...not sure if you think I'm just trying to stir something up or what but I have no reason to doubt who he said he was as he seemed to be well known in the shop. Quote HistoryQuoted: It was a leather flip book type didn't look much at the actual badge minus the CAC(looks like military ID) ID that said special agent on it...not sure if you think I'm just trying to stir something up or what but I have no reason to doubt who he said he was as he seemed to be well known in the shop. |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 4:32:29 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 4/19/2015 4:38:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Disreguard that link i didnt realize it was from 2014
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Posted: 4/19/2015 5:43:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Disreguard that link i didnt realize it was from 2014 You could also edit your post and remove the link yourself.
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Posted: 4/19/2015 8:59:07 PM EDT
[#14]
I think there's starting to be more and more knowledgeable people working behind gun counters these days. Especially with half of them being people who have bought or built AR's since 2012.
Or maybe that's just MN? Or I'm in a better than average area in general? Would be interesting if they reversed it already. The shouldering thing is pretty crazy. A person could carry the 'OK to shoulder' letter with them, then claim ignorance about a newer letter existing. I don't actually care. I've been doing what I want. SO HAPPY 
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Posted: 4/19/2015 9:15:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think there's starting to be more and more knowledgeable people working behind gun counters these days. Especially with half of them being people who have bought or built AR's since 2012. Or maybe that's just MN? Or I'm in a better than average area in general? Would be interesting if they reversed it already. The shouldering thing is pretty crazy. A person could carry the 'OK to shoulder' letter with them, then claim ignorance about a newer letter existing. I don't actually care. I've been doing what I want. SO HAPPY good for you. I live in the suburbs so I can only shoot at indoor asshole gun shop ranges. 
Ill get some land and do what I want one day. |
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Posted: 4/19/2015 11:56:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
good for you. I live in the suburbs so I can only shoot at indoor asshole gun shop ranges.
Ill get some land and do what I want one day. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think there's starting to be more and more knowledgeable people working behind gun counters these days. Especially with half of them being people who have bought or built AR's since 2012. Or maybe that's just MN? Or I'm in a better than average area in general? Would be interesting if they reversed it already. The shouldering thing is pretty crazy. A person could carry the 'OK to shoulder' letter with them, then claim ignorance about a newer letter existing. I don't actually care. I've been doing what I want. SO HAPPY good for you. I live in the suburbs so I can only shoot at indoor asshole gun shop ranges.
Ill get some land and do what I want one day. I've never shot at a gunshop type indoor range or at a club that had less than a 300m outdoor rifle range. (Caveat, other than Front Sight or some army ranges). Also, too expensive. Not paying the LGS markup for finger-f'ed guns or deal with the horrid rules and prices at any in-town-type indoor ranges. I feel for ya. Move out of PA maybe, but only if you can get far away from any big city. Living in a rural type town but not very far from the MN 'twin cities' and it's bad. Roads webbing everything, all private land with houses and farms. The only public land it a state park make to be a short get away for metro f's to "experience nature." 
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Posted: 4/20/2015 2:33:23 PM EDT
[#17]
I saw a post on FB where a known page stated the same and was citing an old ATF letter. I don't agree with the post they stated. I would suggest to not shoulder your arm brace. Don't listen to your LGS. ATF/DOJ make the rules
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Posted: 4/20/2015 8:22:01 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I saw a post on FB where a known page stated the same and was citing an old ATF letter. I don't agree with the post they stated. I would suggest to not shoulder your arm brace. Don't listen to your LGS. ATF/DOJ make the rules I don't know about that. That's what they'd have you believe, for sure. I think being in/from California has got to you. But after searching around, there's nothing else about any ATF reversal-reversal. So, appears totally unsupported at this point. Just do what you want though, and beware of LLEA peeps looking to be a hero and make an arrest. |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 9:41:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think there's starting to be more and more knowledgeable people working behind gun counters these days. Especially with half of them being people who have bought or built AR's since 2012. Or maybe that's just MN? Or I'm in a better than average area in general? Would be interesting if they reversed it already. The shouldering thing is pretty crazy. A person could carry the 'OK to shoulder' letter with them, then claim ignorance about a newer letter existing. I don't actually care. I've been doing what I want. SO HAPPY this is what I do... |
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Posted: 4/20/2015 10:11:40 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
this is what I do... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think there's starting to be more and more knowledgeable people working behind gun counters these days. Especially with half of them being people who have bought or built AR's since 2012. Or maybe that's just MN? Or I'm in a better than average area in general? Would be interesting if they reversed it already. The shouldering thing is pretty crazy. A person could carry the 'OK to shoulder' letter with them, then claim ignorance about a newer letter existing. I don't actually care. I've been doing what I want. SO HAPPY this is what I do... Of course "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Which is actually a real legal tenet, up to a point at least. On the other hand, this is not exactly "the law" but rather an agency's statement of what it has decided the law is. Written by a bureaucrat in an acting subordinate position with no legal credentials. - OS |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 1:34:24 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Which is actually a real legal tenet, up to a point at least. On the other hand, this is not exactly "the law" but rather an agency's statement of what it has decided the law is. Written by a bureaucrat in an acting subordinate position with no legal credentials. - OS Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think there's starting to be more and more knowledgeable people working behind gun counters these days. Especially with half of them being people who have bought or built AR's since 2012. Or maybe that's just MN? Or I'm in a better than average area in general? Would be interesting if they reversed it already. The shouldering thing is pretty crazy. A person could carry the 'OK to shoulder' letter with them, then claim ignorance about a newer letter existing. I don't actually care. I've been doing what I want. SO HAPPY this is what I do... Of course "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Which is actually a real legal tenet, up to a point at least. On the other hand, this is not exactly "the law" but rather an agency's statement of what it has decided the law is. Written by a bureaucrat in an acting subordinate position with no legal credentials. - OS This is important to keep in mind. Just because the remember that it is an "opinion" letter, and just that. I'm not a lawyer but don't mistake opinion for law. |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 1:43:54 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Of course "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Which is actually a real legal tenet, up to a point at least. On the other hand, this is not exactly "the law" but rather an agency's statement of what it has decided the law is. Written by a bureaucrat in an acting subordinate position with no legal credentials. - OS Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think there's starting to be more and more knowledgeable people working behind gun counters these days. Especially with half of them being people who have bought or built AR's since 2012. Or maybe that's just MN? Or I'm in a better than average area in general? Would be interesting if they reversed it already. The shouldering thing is pretty crazy. A person could carry the 'OK to shoulder' letter with them, then claim ignorance about a newer letter existing. I don't actually care. I've been doing what I want. SO HAPPY this is what I do... Of course "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Which is actually a real legal tenet, up to a point at least. On the other hand, this is not exactly "the law" but rather an agency's statement of what it has decided the law is. Written by a bureaucrat in an acting subordinate position with no legal credentials. - OS This is my take. It was a letter, not a legal ruling per se from my understanding. |
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Posted: 4/21/2015 1:50:05 PM EDT
[#23]
I think it was gunblog that posted this yesterday... Problem is they didn't check the date and referenced a 2014 letter that actually helped get the brace on the ATFs radar...so they referenced an old letter to say the ATF was doing a reversal, which hasn't happened. There was a thread about this in GD.
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Posted: 4/21/2015 9:33:05 PM EDT
[#24]
The difficulty with .Gov agencies is that Congress delegated the day to day regulation of the law to them, in order to stay out of minor issues and keep them from clogging their agenda. The ATF is no different from the DOT, EPA, etc. Their regulations are treated as having the force of law. If they post the interpretation and ask for input, they can make the final decision and it becomes part of what we deal with. Like, pushing for E15 gas and getting nearly everybody in the auto industry plus petroleum on record as being against it.
We just did that with the M855 AP interpretation. Although it wasn't as much as a slam dunk as the Administration wanted. Of course, if you can get Congress to enact specific wording and the President to sign it into law, that helps. And if that regulation is brought to a judge for a declaration of relief, then that judge is issuing an overriding opinion the regulation is excessive. SIG was rumored to be considering Declaratory Relief. As for Congress - seems there are bills being introduced to remove the "Sporting Purposes" wording. That hasn't happened in the past, now it's an issue. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn, I've just been reading stuff since the new letter was out. And SIG has done about zip other than to repeat the original letter, the Brace is legal when used as a wrist brace. What we are waiting for is "That Guy" who gets tangled up in an enforcement action. Moot point, the range Nazis and gunstore quislings seem to be doing most of the enforcement at present. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 12:28:37 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... If they post the interpretation and ask for input, they can make the final decision and it becomes part of what we deal with.... Don't recall any input solicitation for any firearm configuration ruling, let alone now for one dealing with simple manner of usage of a admittedly legal config. - OS |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 3:51:55 AM EDT
[#26]
I know the ATF just sent out a letter to shooting ranges explaining that if you have an AR pistol and go to an outdoor range (not sure why outdoor matters over indoors) if you have a sig arm brace or saddle that you can not shoulder the weapon and you have to shoot it at a pistol range and not on a rifle range? But i guess you can still shoot your ruger super redhawk with 8.5" barrel and in 44mag at the 100yd rifle range so go figure,
look up "tactical_sht" on youtube his channel just posted this today. And we got told at lee kay in SLC Utah that we couldnt shoot an AR pistol on the 100yd range last week so it seems not to be isolated. I guess ill be shooting out more in the desert and woods. |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:28:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the ATF just sent out a letter to shooting ranges explaining that if you have an AR pistol and go to an outdoor range (not sure why outdoor matters over indoors) if you have a sig arm brace or saddle that you can not shoulder the weapon and you have to shoot it at a pistol range and not on a rifle range?... You "know" that? Would think that would have been mentioned somewhere on the vast web before now? - OS |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:49:27 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the ATF just sent out a letter to shooting ranges explaining that if you have an AR pistol and go to an outdoor range (not sure why outdoor matters over indoors) if you have a sig arm brace or saddle that you can not shoulder the weapon and you have to shoot it at a pistol range and not on a rifle range? But i guess you can still shoot your ruger super redhawk with 8.5" barrel and in 44mag at the 100yd rifle range so go figure, look up "tactical_sht" on youtube his channel just posted this today. And we got told at lee kay in SLC Utah that we couldnt shoot an AR pistol on the 100yd range last week so it seems not to be isolated. I guess ill be shooting out more in the desert and woods. thats just wrong. I shoot my 22lr pistol out to 200 yrds with a red dot and at 200 yards i hit the steel gong over 1/2 of the rounds spent. I can barely here the ding with the 22lr |
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:53:16 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You "know" that? Would think that would have been mentioned somewhere on the vast web before now? - OS Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know the ATF just sent out a letter to shooting ranges explaining that if you have an AR pistol and go to an outdoor range (not sure why outdoor matters over indoors) if you have a sig arm brace or saddle that you can not shoulder the weapon and you have to shoot it at a pistol range and not on a rifle range?... You "know" that? Would think that would have been mentioned somewhere on the vast web before now? - OS agreed, just because "some guy said it on youtube" 
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Posted: 4/22/2015 7:40:27 PM EDT
[#30]
As far as I know im still a free American. If I purchace a firearm legally like I always do I will shoot it however I see fit. ATFs opinion is worth less than nothing to me. I only follow laws that are clearly written.
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Posted: 4/22/2015 10:44:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As far as I know im still a free American. If I purchace a firearm legally like I always do I will shoot it however I see fit. ATFs opinion is worth less than nothing to me. I only follow laws that are clearly written. its tough, I would like to say that. but the truth is we aren't really free. If we were I'd have a 11.5 machine gun bought from my dealer. I wish could shoot anyway that I like but I live in the suburbs so I can only shoot at dickhead ranges that might kick me out IF i shoulder the brace (not saying that I would or have ATF) Finally I would agree but the laws aren't clearly written. I'm not saying that the ATF is our master and we are all slaves, infact its the other way around. I don't believe the ATF would actually follow through with the idea "shouldering is illegal" because A. it would be next to impossible to prosecute B. its still fine to shoulder a buffer tube. So how do we take this? Case by Case basis? What about a saddle for cheek weld? What about if I turned the saddle upside down? What if new product comes to market? What about if a put a pistol in my shoulder and shot it that way? Oh well time to write the ATF, I will now send them a letter and ask them about this as many have suggested on this website. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 4:30:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Just for the sake of discussion despite all this internet chatter driven by the Tech Branch at the ATF, does anyone actually know of an actual ATF Agent (i.e. a real criminal investigator) charging someone for mis-use based off the opinion (which is not a ruling)?
I ask mainly b/c I know folks in Fed LE, including ATF agents...and they have better things to do but I just want to see if this is more than just hysteria on the internet. Everyone is going to do what they are comfortable with of course, but at the end of this there is law, there is rulings that become de facto law, and then there are opinions which are none of the above-all of which require enforcement to be more than just words. r- Ray |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 9:16:16 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just for the sake of discussion despite all this internet chatter driven by the Tech Branch at the ATF, does anyone actually know of an actual ATF Agent (i.e. a real criminal investigator) charging someone for mis-use based off the opinion (which is not a ruling)? I ask mainly b/c I know folks in Fed LE, including ATF agents...and they have better things to do but I just want to see if this is more than just hysteria on the internet. Everyone is going to do what they are comfortable with of course, but at the end of this there is law, there is rulings that become de facto law, and then there are opinions which are none of the above-all of which require enforcement to be more than just words. r- Ray Exactly if we all shoulder the brace and didn't give a fuck, no one would care And the letter would become useless. But if everyone follows it, it becomes law. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:04:35 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You "know" that? Would think that would have been mentioned somewhere on the vast web before now? - OS Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know the ATF just sent out a letter to shooting ranges explaining that if you have an AR pistol and go to an outdoor range (not sure why outdoor matters over indoors) if you have a sig arm brace or saddle that you can not shoulder the weapon and you have to shoot it at a pistol range and not on a rifle range?... You "know" that? Would think that would have been mentioned somewhere on the vast web before now? - OS well the video was postd the same day as this post and th firday before that is when we got told by lee kay center about the ATF letter, so im not a google master as most people on forums so i have no idea if its on the net or not. All i can tell you is there are several youtube videos about it one i gave refernce to that is a known channel with good info and our experience which i documented the eact range it happened at so...... |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:10:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
agreed, just because "some guy said it on youtube" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I know the ATF just sent out a letter to shooting ranges explaining that if you have an AR pistol and go to an outdoor range (not sure why outdoor matters over indoors) if you have a sig arm brace or saddle that you can not shoulder the weapon and you have to shoot it at a pistol range and not on a rifle range?... You "know" that? Would think that would have been mentioned somewhere on the vast web before now? - OS agreed, just because "some guy said it on youtube" But we are suppose to believe "some guy" hiding his face and any video evidence on a forum? I gave a channel name look at his vids they are well done, I also gave our personal experience and named the actual range it happened at just in case any trolls or Google warriors want to call and confirm :) |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:32:24 PM EDT
[#36]
I don't get what you are trying to say.
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:46:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't get what you are trying to say. I think I get he's saying a range in Utah called the Lee Kay Center claims to have gotten such a letter, and maybe there's a video about that by tactical_sht on YouTube, and though I found tactical_sht I didn't find the vid, but didn't look long, there's a lot of them. It's a radical thought, but perhaps a link to the vid would help us to at least hear their statement and maybe even see the letter? - OS |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 12:21:13 AM EDT
[#38]
video
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf4yFm5h-zU[/youtube] |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 12:33:52 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryDefinitely seems like an expert. It's official! Of course, the letter he's referring to is THE letter and nothing new. The BATF does not send open letters, they publish them. It's that new internet thing that makes it possible. Only paying members can embed videos so you can stop trying. http://tacticalshit.com/video-a-tactical-shthead-gets-kicked-off-the-shooting-range/ |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 1:58:40 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Definitely seems like an expert. It's official! Of course, the letter he's referring to is THE letter and nothing new... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Definitely seems like an expert. It's official! Of course, the letter he's referring to is THE letter and nothing new... Yeah, nothing new, have seen more than one report from folks that certain ranges are freaking and disallowing shoulder fire with the braces. Little extreme to boot someone, though seems. - OS |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 2:12:02 AM EDT
[#41]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf4yFm5h-zU there is a link to the video, again i do ot claim to know anything other then what i posted, which was we were told at lee kay that the ATF sent out a letter and that AR pistols are no longer allowed on the rifle range, we did not have a sig brace on this AR pistol had nothing to do with the sig brace it had everything to do with we wanted to shoot a 5.56 pistol at the 100yd range and that was it and we were asked to go shoot on the pistol side or leave. After our experience I didnt think anything about it really until I saw tactical_sht's video and he mentioned not shooting on the rifle range also in the same letter as the brace, I then found this post same day, and i reported what happened to us and the video i had seen and since then I have seen 2 other videos stating the almost exact same thing, you will either get kicked off the range for shouldering or for shooting on the rifle range.
Again not standing behind the letter not saying it exists not saying i have one not saying i have seen it, just exactly what we were told and exactly what i had seen in a video/ |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:36:52 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the ATF just sent out a letter to shooting ranges explaining that if you have an AR pistol and go to an outdoor range (not sure why outdoor matters over indoors) if you have a sig arm brace or saddle that you can not shoulder the weapon and you have to shoot it at a pistol range and not on a rifle range? But i guess you can still shoot your ruger super redhawk with 8.5" barrel and in 44mag at the 100yd rifle range so go figure, look up "tactical_sht" on youtube his channel just posted this today. And we got told at lee kay in SLC Utah that we couldnt shoot an AR pistol on the 100yd range last week so it seems not to be isolated. I guess ill be shooting out more in the desert and woods. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the ATF just sent out a letter to shooting ranges explaining that if you have an AR pistol and go to an outdoor range (not sure why outdoor matters over indoors) if you have a sig arm brace or saddle that you can not shoulder the weapon and you have to shoot it at a pistol range and not on a rifle range? But i guess you can still shoot your ruger super redhawk with 8.5" barrel and in 44mag at the 100yd rifle range so go figure, look up "tactical_sht" on youtube his channel just posted this today. And we got told at lee kay in SLC Utah that we couldnt shoot an AR pistol on the 100yd range last week so it seems not to be isolated. I guess ill be shooting out more in the desert and woods. Quoted:
Again not standing behind the letter not saying it exists not saying i have one not saying i have seen it, just exactly what we were told and exactly what i had seen in a video/ In any case, the Lee Kay Center does not allow .22lr or handguns that aren't legal to hunt with on their center fire range. Apparently, handguns have to be over .24 caliber to hunt with in Utah so you can't use your .223 pistol on the center fire range. Has nothing to do with the letter you now aren't standing by or know exists. http://leekaycenter.com/ Their range, their rules. My suggestion would be to find a different range if that's possible |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 12:15:07 PM EDT
[#43]
*self removed
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Posted: 4/24/2015 12:46:58 PM EDT
[#44]
I think you took that the wrong way. Brother StaticFilter, the privilege to embed videos is reserved by the goodly owners of this board to members in good standing and who tithe appropriate. I share in your pain and have learned this after many attempts. God bless. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 2:00:38 PM EDT
[#45]
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I think you took that the wrong way. Fair enough, I've never noticed or needed the youtube tag so figured I'd try it. I apologize |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 2:22:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fair enough, I've never noticed or needed the youtube tag so figured I'd try it. I apologize Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think you took that the wrong way. Fair enough, I've never noticed or needed the youtube tag so figured I'd try it. I apologize My bad, it came across a bit terse. I'd like to embed videos because it's handy. I probably should pony up and pay but I'm a cheapskate. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:21:36 PM EDT
[#47]
I found this letter from the ATF today & it clearly states that shouldering a Sig Brace or any device of that type (Thorsden, ShockWave) does NOT change the firearm into a SBR. It was written about a year ago & I'll have a laminated copy in my gun case.
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Posted: 5/1/2015 8:39:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I found this letter from the ATF today & it clearly states that shouldering a Sig Brace or any device of that type (Thorsden, ShockWave) does NOT change the firearm into a SBR. It was written about a year ago & I'll have a laminated copy in my gun case. See my response to your same outdated comment in the other thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/673001_Improving_the_Shockwave_Stabilizing_Blade__UPDATED_4_19_15_New_Pics.html&page=2#i6850658 - OS |
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Posted: 5/2/2015 3:23:09 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
See my response to your same outdated comment in the other thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/673001_Improving_the_Shockwave_Stabilizing_Blade__UPDATED_4_19_15_New_Pics.html&page=2#i6850658 - OS Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I found this letter from the ATF today & it clearly states that shouldering a Sig Brace or any device of that type (Thorsden, ShockWave) does NOT change the firearm into a SBR. It was written about a year ago & I'll have a laminated copy in my gun case. See my response to your same outdated comment in the other thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/673001_Improving_the_Shockwave_Stabilizing_Blade__UPDATED_4_19_15_New_Pics.html&page=2#i6850658 - OS You missed one! He's spreading misinformation in this thread too. 
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Posted: 5/2/2015 2:22:02 PM EDT
[#50]
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I found this letter from the ATF today & it clearly states that shouldering a Sig Brace or any device of that type (Thorsden, ShockWave) does NOT change the firearm into a SBR. It was written about a year ago & I'll have a laminated copy in my gun case. See my response to your same outdated comment in the other thread: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/673001_Improving_the_Shockwave_Stabilizing_Blade__UPDATED_4_19_15_New_Pics.html&page=2#i6850658 - OS You missed one! He's spreading misinformation in this thread too. Well, looks like he's been rebuffed there well enough.
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