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hcook
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Posted: 2/5/2010 12:59:46 PM

THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT
Originally Posted By peekay:
You cannot distill your own whiskey.


Incorrect. You may:

1. Pay all the appropriate taxes, fill out all the appropriate forms, and distill what you want.
2. Do it illegally.

Your decision should be informed by qualified legal counsel and by how much drama you want in your life.
Sparkym37
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:02:54 PM
[Last Edit: 2/5/2010 1:04:51 PM by Sparkym37]
Spirits

You cannot produce spirits for beverage purposes without paying taxes and without prior approval of paperwork to operate a distilled spirits plant. [See 26 U.S.C. 5601 & 5602 for some of the criminal penalties.] There are numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce spirits for personal or beverage use. Some of these requirements are paying special tax, filing an extensive application, filing a bond, providing adequate equipment to measure spirits, providing suitable tanks and pipelines, providing a separate building (other than a dwelling) and maintaining detailed records, and filing reports. All of these requirements are listed in 27 CFR Part 19.

Spirits may be produced for non-beverage purposes for fuel use only without payment of tax, but you also must file an application, receive TTB's approval, and follow requirements, such as construction, use, records and reports.


From the TTB (they have taken over this function from the BATFE)


Therefore, like posted above, it's impractical but not illegal.
hungrymonkey
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:03:21 PM
You cannot distill alcohol for consumption. But I believe there is a grey area for "alternative fuels".

You can also own and operate a distillery for making "essential oils"
Sparkym37
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:07:08 PM
Originally Posted By hungrymonkey:
You cannot distill alcohol for consumption. But I believe there is a grey area for "alternative fuels".

You can also own and operate a distillery for making "essential oils"



"A still is defined as apparatus capable of being used to separate ethyl alcohol from a mixture that contains alcohol. Small stills (with a cubic distilling capacity of a gallon or less) that are used for laboratory purposes or for distilling water or other non-alcoholic materials are exempt from our rules. If you buy a small still and use it to distill water or extract essential oils by steam or water extraction methods, you are not subject to TTB requirements. If you produce essential oils by a solvent method and you get alcohol as a by-product of your process, we consider that distilling. Even though you are using and recovering purchased alcohol, you are separating the alcohol from a mixture -distilling."
Soybomb
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:10:33 PM
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:
You can make so much beer and wine for personal consumption, why would hard liquor be any different?

Probably a combination of taxes and old wives tales about going blind.

Switch blades are probably largely illegal because of a musical and my rifle barrel can be shorter than my shotgun barrel before I turn into a felon. Lots of stupid laws out there.
warddc
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:13:06 PM
it is perfectly legal and encouraged to make ethanol at home (for fuel). there is even a tax refund for doing so. you need a fuel distillation permit from the atf.

a good site

Ohio
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:16:03 PM
Originally Posted By SperlingPE:
Yes up to a certain quantity
Also, no selling of your product without a license


Totally wrong.
No, you can't distill alcohol in the USA without investing millions of dollars.
Originally Posted By Det0nate: It takes a special kind of retard to argue the wrong side of second grade spelling.

What made you pick that particular quote for your sig-line?
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zoom6zoom
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:17:13 PM
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:
You can make so much beer and wine for personal consumption, why would hard liquor be any different?


An explanation that actually makes sense is that this was blocked by the Safety Nazis. It's pretty hard to hurt yourself with a fermenter, but if you're careless with a still you can blow it up.
Ohio
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:18:21 PM
Originally Posted By bulletsponge13:
i am not a 100%, but during a criminal justice class this very subject came up. teacher (also a MD lawyer) said that it is legal to make moonshine up to a certain amount without a taxe stamp or license so long as it is for personal consumption.
YMMV




Ask for your money back.
Originally Posted By Det0nate: It takes a special kind of retard to argue the wrong side of second grade spelling.

What made you pick that particular quote for your sig-line?
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MetalChef
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:22:42 PM
You can FERMENT for personal use-Beer, Mead, Wine-up to a certin limit(I think it is 50 gals for Beer) BUT you cannot sell it.

You CANNOT distill ANY sort of liquor without getting a Tax Stamp and paying the excise taxes on what you make.

It is not about anything but Tax revenue-pure and simple; Uncle Sam wants his share of your $$$$ to make booze. If it were made legal, the amount of Taxes generated would go down because people would start making their own.

Follow the $$$
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:34:54 PM
can one distil their own ethanol for purposes of reducing depedance on foreign oil?
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delemorte
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:36:52 PM
Originally Posted By peekay:
You cannot distill your own whiskey.


With the appropriate licenses you can. that does not mean it is not cost prohibitive but you can do it.
It's a lesson for life I always remember, if you're willing to raise the ante straight to the level of ultraviolence without bothering to go through the usual escalatory steps, you can really get peoples attention.


VTHOKIESHOOTER
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:37:59 PM

Originally Posted By delemorte:
Originally Posted By peekay:
You cannot distill your own whiskey.


With the appropriate licenses you can. that does not mean it is not cost prohibitive but you can do it.
Well with that logic one can easily build a machine gun......

Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
flyfishnepa
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:44:20 PM
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:
You can make so much beer and wine for personal consumption, why would hard liquor be any different?


because of the shoulder thing that goes up

"If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman
piccolo
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:46:03 PM
Is it legal to store biofuel in oak barrels?
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Vote "YES" on 'NO'!

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ChuckD05
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:47:39 PM
In WV it is legal to do so for PERSONAL CONSUMPTION, no sales.
Up to & including 2.5 gallons per calender year.


Plus our 9th grade science teacher made it every year during the spring in his science class. Guy was blitzed each year by lunch.
zoom6zoom
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Posted: 2/5/2010 1:59:20 PM
Originally Posted By ChuckD05:
In WV it is legal to do so for PERSONAL CONSUMPTION, no sales.
Up to & including 2.5 gallons per calender year.

I'd have to see the state code.... can't see how it can be legal at the state level when it's not at the Federal.
odiedodi
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Posted: 2/5/2010 2:02:15 PM
There is an A in ATF for a reason.

Do they still shoot your dog if its a moonshine raid and not a illegal gun raid?
Gravity_Tester
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Posted: 2/5/2010 2:07:04 PM
No. You cannot heat distill, nor can you intentionally cold distill. There is an exception for fuel use, but you have to add methanol to render it unconsumeable. You can make 100 gallons per year, per adult (not to exceed 200 gallons) of beer, wine and mead, but you can't distill them.
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VaFarmBoy
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Posted: 2/5/2010 2:13:44 PM
Originally Posted By KG5S:
You can get a permit to make Ethanol but if somebody puts it to their lips.............it's not legal anymore !


Thats why some recommend that guys making fuel ethanol blend a little gasoline with it in the storage tank, so the .gov will not try to claim you were going to drink it.
rangermonroe
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Posted: 2/5/2010 2:18:03 PM

Originally Posted By Sparkym37:
Spirits

You cannot produce spirits for beverage purposes without paying taxes and without prior approval of paperwork to operate a distilled spirits plant. [See 26 U.S.C. 5601 & 5602 for some of the criminal penalties.] There are numerous requirements that must be met that make it impractical to produce spirits for personal or beverage use. Some of these requirements are paying special tax, filing an extensive application, filing a bond, providing adequate equipment to measure spirits, providing suitable tanks and pipelines, providing a separate building (other than a dwelling) and maintaining detailed records, and filing reports. All of these requirements are listed in 27 CFR Part 19.

Spirits may be produced for non-beverage purposes for fuel use only without payment of tax, but you also must file an application, receive TTB's approval, and follow requirements, such as construction, use, records and reports.


From the TTB (they have taken over this function from the BATFE)


Therefore, like posted above, it's impractical but not illegal.



Me thinks this guy might just be reading from the manual on his desk, guys.

It sounds exactly like the phone conversation I had with a member here that works for the fun police.
max229
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Posted: 2/5/2010 2:25:55 PM
You can distill ethanol with a proper license from the ATF.
Increasing the entropy of ARFCOM, one post at a time.
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Posted: 2/5/2010 2:26:56 PM
Originally Posted By AR15thur:
Subject says it all...some friends and I were talking about it at work.


No. You can brew your own beer and make your own wine, but distillation requires a license from BATFE, and it's not practical to do so for personal use.
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Scrap5000
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Posted: 2/5/2010 2:28:55 PM
Wine is definitely legal to make for your own use, last I heard it was 50 gallons a year.

So I thought you could make your own moonshine too, up to a certain amount, for personal use?
masfonos
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Posted: 2/5/2010 2:32:02 PM
[Last Edit: 2/5/2010 2:39:04 PM by masfonos]
Originally Posted By SperlingPE:
Yes up to a certain quantity
Also, no selling of your product without a license
DO NOT take legal advice from this user!







Originally Posted By bulletsponge13:
i am not a 100%, but during a criminal justice class this very subject came up. teacher (also a MD lawyer) said that it is legal to make moonshine up to a certain amount without a taxe stamp or license so long as it is for personal consumption.
He also said that so long as you do not advertise what you are doing or become a huge operation, the BATFE has better things to do.
YMMV
Is that amount 4/9 of a gallon? I think I know that teacher!
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The Constitution is a written instrument. As such, its meaning does not alter. That which it meant when it was adopted, it means now. – South Carolina v. United States, 199 U.S. 437, 448
1Bigdog
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Posted: 2/5/2010 2:40:07 PM
It can be....

just follow the rules.
Razoreye
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Posted: 2/5/2010 2:57:01 PM
By its very definition "moonshining" is illegal...

Distilling isn't but like everyone points out it is very impractical unless you're trying to get into the biz.
CAWillie
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Posted: 2/5/2010 2:58:22 PM
Well, legal or not, they set up a still and make it in the middle of the street every year during local festival. They give away free samples. They just don't sell it.
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Posted: 2/5/2010 3:00:47 PM
Surprisingly in before slipknot762
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Danarchist
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Posted: 2/5/2010 3:12:16 PM

Originally Posted By BushBoar:
Originally Posted By AR15thur:
Subject says it all...some friends and I were talking about it at work.


No. You can brew your own beer and make your own wine, but distillation requires a license from BATFE, and it's not practical to do so for personal use.
Right, it's impractical to make moonshine that costs ~$1-$2 per fifth of 40% hooch. It's MUCH more practical to buy it from the store and make sure the gov't gets its tax revenue to spend on useless bullshit.

Why are so many posters here concerned about what the law is without questioning the assumption that the gov't has the RIGHT to make these laws and that once the gov't makes the law we should obey it? I won't question the POWER of the gov't to make these laws though.

+1 on never going to www.homedistiller.org. Awful place. Another awful place is http://www.amphora-society.com/.



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Posted: 2/5/2010 3:30:17 PM
[Last Edit: 2/5/2010 3:30:55 PM by DanParker]
Originally Posted By Danarchist:
Originally Posted By BushBoar:
Originally Posted By AR15thur:
Subject says it all...some friends and I were talking about it at work.

No. You can brew your own beer and make your own wine, but distillation requires a license from BATFE, and it's not practical to do so for personal use.

Right, it's impractical to make moonshine that costs ~$1-$2 per fifth of 40% hooch. It's MUCH more practical to buy it from the store and make sure the gov't gets its tax revenue to spend on useless bullshit.[div]

You need to add to that "~$1-$2 per fifth of 40% hooch" the cost of a good defense lawyer, any fines you end up paying and...if your attorney ends up not being that good...lost wages due to the time you spend in the Graybar Hotel contemplating the error of your ways.

Why are so many posters here concerned about what the law is without questioning the assumption that the gov't has the RIGHT to make these laws and that once the gov't makes the law we should obey it? I won't question the POWER of the gov't to make these laws though.

Probably because most of us realize that no matter what we might think about the justice of such laws, the potential consequences of violating them are well worth considering when making a decision.
masfonos
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Posted: 2/5/2010 3:51:48 PM
Originally Posted By Danarchist:
Why are so many posters here concerned about what the law is without questioning the assumption that the gov't has the RIGHT to make these laws and that once the gov't makes the law we should obey it?



I think it might have something to do with the fact that the title of the thread is "Is it legal to make moonshine in the U.S.?" rather than "Are the laws regulating the production of distilled spirits in the US rational/constitutional/ethical/etc?"
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The Constitution is a written instrument. As such, its meaning does not alter. That which it meant when it was adopted, it means now. – South Carolina v. United States, 199 U.S. 437, 448
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Posted: 2/5/2010 4:01:51 PM
Originally Posted By masfonos:
Originally Posted By Danarchist:
Why are so many posters here concerned about what the law is without questioning the assumption that the gov't has the RIGHT to make these laws and that once the gov't makes the law we should obey it?



I think it might have something to do with the fact that the title of the thread is "Is it legal to make moonshine in the U.S.?" rather than "Are the laws regulating the production of distilled spirits in the US rational/constitutional/ethical/etc?"


The Constitution grants congress the power to levy excise taxes, so yes it is Constitutional.
"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244)
Muerte
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Posted: 2/5/2010 4:03:13 PM
as long as your not selling it
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Posted: 2/5/2010 4:07:55 PM
Originally Posted By Muerte:
as long as your not selling it

Oh, for fuck's sake....

{your favorite face-palm image here}
masfonos
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Posted: 2/5/2010 4:11:59 PM
Originally Posted By CONKLE73:
The Constitution grants congress the power to levy excise taxes, so yes it is Constitutional.


Again, neither here nor there with regard to this thread.
Proud Member, Ranstad's Militia - The Fantastic Bastards

The Constitution is a written instrument. As such, its meaning does not alter. That which it meant when it was adopted, it means now. – South Carolina v. United States, 199 U.S. 437, 448
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Posted: 2/5/2010 6:31:44 PM
Originally Posted By whiteshark357:
Say whaaaat......So someone can legally make a zip gun or the like? Does it have to be registered? Details please..........


State or local laws in your area may foribd, but federally, yes. There is no federal registration.

See the "FAQ" section at the ATF website on making of firearms for personal use.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/general.html#gca-manufacturing

With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts.
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Posted: 2/5/2010 6:39:15 PM
for your self yes to sell no
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
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Posted: 2/5/2010 6:41:44 PM
Not sure but i think you can make some fuel in some states ?

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Posted: 2/5/2010 6:42:52 PM
This shouldn't come as a surprise when you realize America was first inhabited by a bunch of asshole Puritans and then the South was predominantly Baptist. Alcohol=Evil, duh
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Posted: 2/5/2010 6:43:50 PM
Originally Posted By Thatdude333:
You can make so much beer and wine for personal consumption, why would hard liquor be any different?


You can buy a rifle that was designed to work with a 30 round magazine but you can only legally purchase ones that hold 12 rounds or less.

People make laws.
Some times, dumb people.
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Posted: 2/5/2010 6:49:53 PM
Originally Posted By epnurse:
Cue that verse in "Rocky Top..."



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Posted: 2/5/2010 6:58:31 PM

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:

Originally Posted By postban:
Do not go to http://www.homedistiller.org/
Do not read the large and well visited forum.
Do not follow any advice or methods you read there.
Specifically avoid discussion of Reflux Column Stills.

You have been warned.


I think I'll go so I know how to identify someone who is ignoring the law.


Thank you for doing this, I added it to my SITE NOT TO GO TO bookmark.
Let me help...

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Posted: 2/5/2010 7:01:02 PM
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Posted: 2/5/2010 7:03:39 PM

Originally Posted By CONKLE73:
Originally Posted By masfonos:
Originally Posted By Danarchist:
Why are so many posters here concerned about what the law is without questioning the assumption that the gov't has the RIGHT to make these laws and that once the gov't makes the law we should obey it?



I think it might have something to do with the fact that the title of the thread is "Is it legal to make moonshine in the U.S.?" rather than "Are the laws regulating the production of distilled spirits in the US rational/constitutional/ethical/etc?"


The Constitution grants congress the power to levy excise taxes, so yes it is Constitutional.

The Constitutionality of it would only apply if the product were to be sold or bartered, not for simply making your own booze and sharing it among friends. While making it is technically illegal, I don't believe the gov't has the authority to tell me I can't make it for my own personal consumption (yes, I know the gov't has a different opinion on this and the power to enforce their opinion).

I believe it should be noted that the while the ATF generally seems to have better things to do than bust moonshiners (based on the arrest stats), local ABC and other state agencies will still (heh) run raids on illicit moonshining operations.

Damn, I'm getting thirsty now...
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Posted: 2/5/2010 7:11:56 PM
Originally Posted By SultanOfBrunei:

The last published figures I saw said there were no moonshine busts in the last few years. I think the figures were from 2007.


moonshine is being made, and operations are being busted, all the time, all over the south. dunno about the rest of the country. here's one example found in about 2 seconds.http://www.star-telegram.com/texas/story/1889032.html
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Posted: 2/5/2010 7:16:29 PM
Revenuers will come take you to jail.


They can't keep up with my worked-over coupe. When I 'm three turns ahead I'll be gone down a side road and laughing my ass off.
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Posted: 2/5/2010 7:19:26 PM
Only the peach tastin' stuff.
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Posted: 2/5/2010 7:19:52 PM
Originally Posted By SperlingPE:
Yes up to a certain quantity
Also, no selling of your product without a license


you're 100% wrong and 200% fucking stupid for trying to pass off your bullshit as facts.
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Posted: 2/5/2010 7:21:48 PM
[Last Edit: 2/5/2010 7:23:08 PM by morningwood1429]
hope so! (BTW in ga its legal as long as you dont sell it)

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