So...contempt of FA. You can beat the rap but you won't beat the ride.

That isn't acceptable when it comes from a police officer. It sure isn't acceptable from the person that is supposed to be getting me some ice water. And yet most here just roll over and take it.

Pathetic.

I have no expectations when riding in a vehicle / vessel / aircraft that is not mine. Well, other than safety and not being ejected while moving / flying that is.

Standby.....he stands by and waves goodbye to that aircraft.

annnnnddd..... enjoy the latest (4/21) aircrew/passenger confrontation

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3387806/american-airlines-steward-banned-whacks-sobbing-mum/
FIGHT ATTENDANT American Airlines steward banned from cabin after he ‘whacked’ sobbing mum as she held twins then challenged another passenger to a FIGHT

I think this might be "Dave" (I don't give a fuck)  in the gray/blue shirt who gets up and stands up for the mom, and is prepared to kick blimpy-the-flight-attendant's ass.



 

   

It's "acceptable" because you "agree" to it when you buy your ticket from a non governmental entity.  Reality.

Its not your plane, so your rights are very limited. It

The Cost of the Legal Settlement after the Captain calls the police to drag the bloodied passenger off the plane.  

Probably Not worth the whole respect my authoriti mentality.  All depends on the Egos of those involved.

False. If it isn't a listed term in the contract then it isn't acceptable.

I would think it's like anything else. Private property, they reserve the right to boot you for any reason. Don't go to someone else's house and tell them what's what. I would be mad they booted me, but I'd leave peacefully if asked. You'd be trespassing otherwise. At least that's how it is at private businesses. Now I'd expect a full refund or another flight. But that's about it. Otherwise I'll see them in small claims court. There's an adult legal way to handle things, and there's the childlike emotional crazy persons way. Guess which one goes to jail? Ha

4) When the passenger attempts to interfere with any member of the flight crew in the pursuit of
his or her duties, or fails to obey the instruction of any member of the flight crew;

8) When the passenger’s behavior may be hazardous to himself/herself, the crew, or other
passengers;

10) When the passenger’s conduct creates an unreasonable risk of offense or annoyance to
other passengers;

Any of those offer enough plenty of wiggle room to justify removal of just about anyone.  Especially the second clause of #4.  It does not make a distinction as to the nature of the instruction.  Just that you may be refused transport if you fail to obey it.

The Dr didn't go to jail. The rent-a-cops were suspended instead.

God damn they hired Randy as a FA, thank god that greasy bastard is wearing a shirt at least.

In all seriousness IF that was me as a passenger I would be sitting in federal prison and el tubbo the fucking air waitress would be sitting drooling getting coloring books.
No words no bravado just me kicking the shit out of a tubby bitch titted fuckboy who assaulted a woman holding infants because he is suffering from mico penis.

An airplane is an extension of America.  You have no rights other than those they choose to extend to you under their grace.  Said rights can be pulled, altered or canceled at any given time for any reason of their choosing.  This agreement is enforceable by the airlines and the government at the point of a gun and any other violence of their choosing.  Make no mistake about it.

Only orders that are within the flight crew's authority. The FA cannot order you to fight another passenger for their entertainment.
Sitting in your seat reading a book...not hazardous.
Sitting in your seat reading a book...not offensive.
Only within their authority.

Last time on airplane: 1986
Next time: never

The crew tells you to sit down.  You don't.  Guess what?

The "risk" of offense is all that is required.  If you are raising your voice and or yelling, maybe the crew is worried you will start a curse filled tirade in the presence of children.

I'm done.  I agree with your intent, but not with your reality.  Have a good day.

Rule 21 Refusal of Transport

UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:

   Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.
   Government Request, Regulations or Security Directives – Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, Customs and Border Protection, government or airport security directive of any sort, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense.
   Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.
   Search of Passenger or Property – Whenever a Passenger refuses to submit to electronic surveillance or to permit search of his/her person or property.
   Proof of Identity – Whenever a Passenger refuses on request to produce identification satisfactory to UA or who presents a Ticket to board and whose identification does not match the name on the Ticket. UA shall have the right, but shall not be obligated, to require identification of persons purchasing tickets and/or presenting a ticket(s) for the purpose of boarding the aircraft.
   Failure to Pay – Whenever a Passenger has not paid the appropriate fare for a Ticket, Baggage, or applicable service charges for services required for travel, has not paid an outstanding debt or Court judgment, or has not produced satisfactory proof to UA that the Passenger is an authorized non-revenue Passenger or has engaged in a prohibited practice as specified in Rule 6.
   Across International Boundaries – Whenever a Passenger is traveling across any international boundary if:
       The government required travel documents of such Passenger appear not to be in order according to UA's reasonable belief; or
       Such Passenger’s embarkation from, transit through, or entry into any country from, through, or to which such Passenger desires transportation would be unlawful or denied for any reason.
   Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a Passenger may be necessary for the safety of such Passenger or other Passengers or members of the crew including, but not limited to:
       Passengers whose conduct is disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent;
       Passengers who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of the members of the flight crew, federal regulations, or security directives;
       Passengers who assault any employee of UA, including the gate agents and flight crew, or any UA Passenger;
       Passengers who, through and as a result of their conduct, cause a disturbance such that the captain or member of the cockpit crew must leave the cockpit in order to attend to the disturbance;
       Passengers who are barefoot or not properly clothed;
       Passengers who appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs to a degree that the Passenger may endanger the Passenger or another Passenger or members of the crew (other than a qualified individual whose appearance or involuntary behavior may make them appear to be intoxicated or under the influence of drugs);
       Passengers wearing or possessing on or about their person concealed or unconcealed deadly or dangerous weapons; provided, however, that UA will carry law enforcement personnel who meet the qualifications and conditions established in 49 C.F.R. §1544.219;
       Passengers who are unwilling or unable to follow UA’s policy on smoking or use of other smokeless materials;
       Unless they comply with Rule 6 I), Passengers who are unable to sit in a single seat with the seat belt properly secured, and/or are unable to put the seat’s armrests down when seated and remain seated with the armrest down for the entirety of the flight, and/or passengers who significantly encroach upon the adjoining passenger’s seat;
       Passengers who are manacled or in the custody of law enforcement personnel;
       Passengers who have resisted or may reasonably be believed to be capable of resisting custodial supervision;
       Pregnant Passengers in their ninth month, unless such Passenger provides a doctor’s certificate dated no more than 72 hours prior to departure stating that the doctor has examined and found the Passenger to be physically fit for air travel to and from the destination requested on the date of the flight, and that the estimated date of delivery is after the date of the last flight;
       Passengers who are incapable of completing a flight safely, without requiring extraordinary medical assistance during the flight, as well as Passengers who appear to have symptoms of or have a communicable disease or condition that could pose a direct threat to the health or safety of others on the flight, or who refuse a screening for such disease or condition. (NOTE: UA requires a medical certificate for Passengers who wish to travel under such circumstances. Visit UA’s website, united.com, for more information regarding UA’s requirements for medical certificates);
       Passengers who fail to travel with the required safety assistant(s), advance notice and/or other safety requirements pursuant to Rules 14 and 15;
       Passengers who do not qualify as acceptable Non-Ambulatory Passengers (see Rule 14);
       Passengers who have or cause a malodorous condition (other than individuals qualifying as disabled);
       Passengers whose physical or mental condition is such that, in United’s sole opinion, they are rendered or likely to be rendered incapable of comprehending or complying with safety instructions without the assistance of an escort. The escort must accompany the escorted passenger at all times; and
       Unaccompanied passengers who are both blind and deaf, unless such passenger is able to communicate with representatives of UA by either physical, mechanical, electronic, or other means. Such passenger must inform UA of the method of communication to be used; and
       Passengers who are unwilling to follow UA’s policy that prohibits voice calls after the aircraft doors have closed, while taxiing in preparation for takeoff, or while airborne.
   Any Passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, consents and acknowledges that he or she shall reimburse UA for any such loss, damage or expense. UA has the right to refuse transport, on a permanent basis, to any passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, or who has been disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent. In addition, the activities enumerated in H) 1) through 8) shall constitute a material breach of contract, for which UA shall be excused from performing its obligations under this contract.
   UA is not liable for its refusal to transport any passenger or for its removal of any passenger in accordance with this Rule. A Passenger who is removed or refused transportation in accordance with this Rule may be eligible for a refund upon request. See Rule 27 A). As an express precondition to issuance of any refund, UA shall not be responsible for damages of any kind whatsoever. The passenger’s sole and exclusive remedy shall be Rule 27 A).

Many times the airline does not even own the plane, it is leased.

An airplane is private property, just like a theater or restaurant.

You have the right to bleed how much is your choice

Airports and airplanes are generally given much more play on rules due to terrorism. If they want you off you will probably be getting off.

Both the black Lady and White Knight would have gone to jail had I still been working. We've dragged fighters off before. Also the FBI has the option of picking up the case and taking you federal if you want to be a big enough asshole. In a INTL Terminal it might be customs who grabs you. Or the FBI. Or the Locals. They work it out. If something happens while a plane is in the air it will be the FBI who arrests you.

But ask yourself? How many people who fly and play by the rules, try and be a decent citizen, ever really get bothered? Damn few, Ive never been bothered. And its true certain elements of the flying experience blow and there ARE occasional incompetents involved people dont go to jail all that often. Even in the busiest airport. But its been building up. Some of these airlines are just heartless and have no common sense.

In spite of what the social justice warriors in this thread and others want you to believe....Flying is a great way to travel. Yes there are some ass holes....both workers and passengers. But, there are FAR more ass holes driving our nation's roadways. Some even post in this thread.......

The problem is it may be the correct instruction according to company policy or handbooks, but in the case of the pill doc he was already boarded and it violated the FAR when they removed him

LOL at being sober.

It would seem to me it's their plane, so their rules.  However, pissing off or treating passengers poorly can't be good for business in the long run.

Here is a rational, non emotional statement.

A flight Attendant has no authority to kick anybody off an aircraft.

The gate agent can and the Captain can.

If the Captain is and it is because someone is intoxicated, company policy and FAR are clear.

If it is for a disruptive or threatening passenger, then where I am the lawyers and corporate security gets involved. It is the Captains final decision, but it is much better to have all the mukity mucks agree with what you are going to do. That step, prevents lawsuits.

Only if the FA can articulate a valid reason IAW policy and law why they should be removed. It has always been like that.

The leasing company should order the pilot out of his seat. Their plane, their rules.

Please quote the FAR they violated when they removed him..

I'll wait.

Grab a Snickers.

Give me a few seconds

do you have any authority supporting the claim you "cant" be removed?  Anything at all?

Because the airlines routinely doing it the easy way IS NOT the same as something prohibiting from doing it the hard way.

Two things.

First, its an asshole move and devoid of critical thinking to pretend everyone who disagrees with you is a sheep and you are a channeler of the founding fathers.   You arent.

And two, i sat on a plane in Chicago for four hours once during a lake storm that blew in after we left the gate. AND SO WOULD YOU. .

You dont just grab the door and activiate the emergency slide,  Everyone reading this knows youd sit there and take it.

Read your contract.

The FARs say otherwise. And with a name like AA717 driver might that be a clue he knows more than you about this?

I love air travel. Just be a polite human and no issues will come of it.

Pretty much like life, which is why this world is fucked now.

Good for you,you know your place

Someone stated it was either FAA FAR Part 121, 250a or 250b, it basically stated that once a person boarded he cannot be deplaned excluding drinking, violence and appearance and hygiene. They could not remove him from the flight once he boarded.  He should have been denied boarding to begin with

You have unlimited rights, you paid to be there.
If you want to go sit in first class just do it.

If they try to remove you emphasize your points with Motherf#$%er a lot and then say it is Trump's fault.
Don't forget to do the chicken head "oh no you di'int" move so that they know you mean business.
Volume helps, remind them that you are a PAYING customer and that they are just airborne waitresses (this works especially well if the skywaitress is a homosexual) they will see your moral superiority and back down.

If those fascists try to drag you off the plane, scream and screech like a little girl.

Make sure someone gets it all on their cell phone (preferably in landscape orientation) for your big dollar lawsuit and to get public opinion behind you.

Above all post it here.



I am not a lawyer or a penguin so use this at your own risk.

No beverage service on the 1st leg my journey this evening due to turbulence. If I don't get a drink on my 2nd leg, it's on!

After boarding and being seated, you  are required to give up your assigned seat only under a few very specific conditions.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/united-cites-wrong-rule-for-illegally-de-boarding-passenger/

http://www.newsweek.com/why-united-were-legally-wrong-deplane-dr-dao-583535

Contract of Carriage says they have the right to refuse to transport pretty much for any reason they want. Then there are compensation requirements as far as the governments concerned. But you still don't get the go.

Thank you, that was what I was looking for

Can you link to the specific FAR that states that you can be removed from a flight of the flight attendant doesn't like your face?

Honest to God I was involved in a similar incident where I was seated in the airplane and someone comes over and tells me that I am in the wrong seat so I ask to see his ticket and I'll be damned; his ticket had my flight and seat number on it.

I look at my own ticket and guess what?

My own ticket had the correct flight and seat number on it as well......this was quite a few years ago when printed tickets were purchased at travel agents rather than over the Internet.

Turns out, the guy who "needed" my seat so bad was the Argentinian Ambassador to the United States who was accompanied by an entourage of three other men who tried to intimidate me into getting off the flight.

I told them thatbhe was out of luck since the fight was full and I was already in the seat and I had no intention of getting up.

They got a stewardess to come over, who I also informed I wasn't getting up for the ambassador or anyone else.

The stewardess brought a gate agent into the discussion and I repeated my intention not to get out of my seat for the ambassador.

The Argentinian Ambassador to The United States and his merry men had to get another flight.

How long ago did this happen?

I don't remember the airline or the destination but the aircraft was a stretched out DC 8.

Theres another option most of you probably dont know about. Its called an FAA report. Normally its written for a passenger being an asshole in Lieu of making an arrest but it can also be filled out IF you arrest them. Now this FAA report can really bite you in the ass if they decide to really press it, even worse then the criminal penalty. Im talking fines of $10, $20K or even more and if your antics cause the airplane to divert and Land they probably aren't just going to be happy with a criminal complaint they are going to go after you thru the FAA and civil court as well as get you banned from their airline.

People think they are a joke when being written out without knowing it can cost them big cash.

I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. But I do have 1 million ass in the seat miles on United, not frequent flyer miles not bonus miles but actual ass in the seat miles. If you'd like some bedtime reading I'll post a link to the contract of carriage.

United Airlines contract of carriage

Well if you smell bad to the flight attendant they can refuse to transport you.

16. Passengers who have or cause a malodorous condition (other than individuals qualifying as disabled);