Your rights on a commercial aircraft - Page 3

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Your rights on a commercial aircraft (Page 3 of 10)

Posted: 4/23/2017 9:37:01 PM EDT

[#1]

ALL Passengers should just form a Union

Posted: 4/23/2017 9:42:29 PM EDT

[#2]

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I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV. But I do have 1 million ass in the seat miles on United, not frequent flyer miles not bonus miles but actual ass in the seat miles. If you'd like some bedtime reading I'll post a link to the contract of carriage.

United Airlines contract of carriage

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That's very nice, but what you've provided here is not apropos to the circumstances of removing an already boarded and seated passenger.

Under the law, there are only a few, very specific reasons for which that can be done.

Posted: 4/23/2017 9:52:09 PM EDT

[#3]

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Please quote the FAR they violated when they removed him..

I'll wait.

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False. If it isn't a listed term in the contract then it isn't acceptable.

4) When the passenger attempts to interfere with any member of the flight crew in the pursuit of
his or her duties, or fails to obey the instruction of any member of the flight crew;

8) When the passenger’s behavior may be hazardous to himself/herself, the crew, or other
passengers;

10) When the passenger’s conduct creates an unreasonable risk of offense or annoyance to
other passengers;

Any of those offer enough plenty of wiggle room to justify removal of just about anyone. Especially the second clause of #4. It does not make a distinction as to the nature of the instruction. Just that you may be refused transport if you fail to obey it.

The problem is it may be the correct instruction according to company policy or handbooks, but in the case of the pill doc he was already boarded and it violated the FAR when they removed him

Please quote the FAR they violated when they removed him..

I'll wait.

I'd like to see that.

It's enough of a reason if one of the cockpit crew has to come back and chastise you.

"Passengers who, through and as a result of their conduct, cause a disturbance such that the captain or member of the cockpit crew must leave the cockpit in order to attend to the disturbance;"

Posted: 4/23/2017 9:53:17 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:
Passenger Noncompliance. Passenger noncompliance with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) safety regulations may result in interference with a crewmember. This is a violation of 14 CFR part 121 and may also be a criminal violation under Title 49 of the United States Code (49 U.S.C.) § 46318(a). Air carriers should have procedures in their manuals to ensure that crewmembers know what actions to take if a passenger does not comply with the safety regulations and/or interferes with a crewmember.

I know this is going to be rebutted with "well if I'm just sitting and reading a book following the rules they can't tell me to get up!" WRONG.

Let's say the right engine has caused some magic light flashing in the cockpit. Captian gives a crewmember instructions to look out of the only window that gives a view of that engine to give a quick inspection. That window is right beside you. You are asked to de-ass your seat, without any reason. Because you know, the word "fire" or "engine trouble" tends to make folks lose their shit. You refuse because you believe in the land of purple sky that you 'deserve' a valid reason. Well you don't, and that just became passenger noncompliance.

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And that is what happened here? On the ground?

Posted: 4/23/2017 9:54:16 PM EDT

[#5]

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Well if you smell bad to the flight attendant they can refuse to transport you.

16. Passengers who have or cause a malodorous condition (other than individuals qualifying as disabled);

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That covered refusing to board. Not removing somebody that is already on board.

Posted: 4/23/2017 9:54:18 PM EDT

[#6]

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NO that is how it has been. That is the way it was when they removed the doctor.

If you are obeying the rules and not causing trouble, you can not be forcibly removed. That's why airlines offer money to get people to give up their seats and that is appropriate.

People pay their money, the deal is made. AFTER completing an agreement is not the time to rescind your service or product when someone that has purchased your service or product is playing by the rules.

Think about this exact same thing in other aspects of life and what would happen. If the grocery store took back the last Thanksgiving turkey you paid for while your loading your car or a theater owner taking you out of your seat for someone else, or......

Airlines have been getting away with shit for a LONG time.

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Except the good Dr. and his wife, who is not in the video, did accept the deal, until he flipped out and ran into the plane. FA cannot and will not forcibly remove you from a plane. They can notify the Pilot who calls authorities.

The GA is not supposed to let any intoxicated persons on the plane. It does happen and it's actually illegal for an impaired person to fly. FAs can remove ill passengers after a review with pilot.

Posted: 4/23/2017 9:58:00 PM EDT

[#7]

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I am the captain of this thread and I demand the OP to be removed immediately.

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I am the smarter captain of this thread. We will now deplane every passenger. Re-boarding will not include OP.

Posted: 4/23/2017 10:01:44 PM EDT

[#8]

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If you are obeying the rules and not causing trouble, you can not be forcibly removed. That's why airlines offer money to get people to give up their seats and that is appropriate.

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Opinions aren't facts. You sir, are not correct.

Posted: 4/23/2017 10:19:07 PM EDT

[#9]

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Opinions aren't facts. You sir, are not correct.

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Quoted:

If you are obeying the rules and not causing trouble, you can not be forcibly removed. That's why airlines offer money to get people to give up their seats and that is appropriate.

Opinions aren't facts. You sir, are not correct.

Thanks for offering your opinion anyway.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/united-cites-wrong-rule-for-illegally-de-boarding-passenger/

http://www.newsweek.com/why-united-were-legally-wrong-deplane-dr-dao-583535

Posted: 4/23/2017 10:20:40 PM EDT

[#10]

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And that is what happened here? On the ground?

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Quoted:
Passenger Noncompliance. Passenger noncompliance with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) safety regulations may result in interference with a crewmember. This is a violation of 14 CFR part 121 and may also be a criminal violation under Title 49 of the United States Code (49 U.S.C.) § 46318(a). Air carriers should have procedures in their manuals to ensure that crewmembers know what actions to take if a passenger does not comply with the safety regulations and/or interferes with a crewmember.

I know this is going to be rebutted with "well if I'm just sitting and reading a book following the rules they can't tell me to get up!" WRONG.

Let's say the right engine has caused some magic light flashing in the cockpit. Captian gives a crewmember instructions to look out of the only window that gives a view of that engine to give a quick inspection. That window is right beside you. You are asked to de-ass your seat, without any reason. Because you know, the word "fire" or "engine trouble" tends to make folks lose their shit. You refuse because you believe in the land of purple sky that you 'deserve' a valid reason. Well you don't, and that just became passenger noncompliance.

And that is what happened here? On the ground?

The way this plays out on the ground is simple. Plane is boarded, positive space crewmembers walk up needing to get on. Nobody gets off. First Officer goes outside to perform preflight walk-around inspection. FO informs the Capt and maintenance that the main gear tires appear to be a little low on air pressure. Maintenance says "no problem, be right there. Deplane the entire aircraft of passengers and bags so we can get an accurate reading."
So now you can either get off or be drug off. Once everyone is off maintenance checks it out, adds a bit of air while everyone in the terminal watches through the windows, and signs it off. Now you may reboard the aircraft. Guess who isn't getting back on.

See how simple that is? That's why the argument that "once boarded always boarded" is so simple-mindedly juvenile. I can come up with many reasons off the top of my head, any one of which will lead to deplaning all the passengers. Tires look low. Gear struts look low. I want a security sweep... I can get you and everyone else off that plane real easy. Then we can reorganize the seat map to our hearts content.

What laws, regulations, ordinances, royal edicts, international agreements, legal contracts (written or verbal), or interstellar treatise did I violate?

None.

Posted: 4/23/2017 10:28:34 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
The way this plays out on the ground is simple. Plane is boarded, positive space crewmembers walk up needing to get on. Nobody gets off. First Officer goes outside to perform preflight walk-around inspection. FO informs the Capt and maintenance that the main gear tires appear to be a little low on air pressure. Maintenance says "no problem, be right there. Deplane the entire aircraft of passengers and bags so we can get an accurate reading."
So now you can either get off or be drug off. Once everyone is off maintenance checks it out, adds a bit of air while everyone in the terminal watches through the windows, and signs it off. Now you may reboard the aircraft. Guess who isn't getting back on.

See how simple that is? That's why the argument that "once boarded always boarded" is so simple-mindedly juvenile. I can come up with many reasons off the top of my head, any one of which will lead to deplaning all the passengers. Tires look low. Gear struts look low. I want a security sweep... I can get you and everyone else off that plane real easy. Then we can reorganize the seat map to our hearts content.

What laws, regulations, ordinances, royal edicts, international agreements, legal contracts (written or verbal), or interstellar treatise did I violate?

None.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Passenger Noncompliance. Passenger noncompliance with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) safety regulations may result in interference with a crewmember. This is a violation of 14 CFR part 121 and may also be a criminal violation under Title 49 of the United States Code (49 U.S.C.) § 46318(a). Air carriers should have procedures in their manuals to ensure that crewmembers know what actions to take if a passenger does not comply with the safety regulations and/or interferes with a crewmember.

I know this is going to be rebutted with "well if I'm just sitting and reading a book following the rules they can't tell me to get up!" WRONG.

Let's say the right engine has caused some magic light flashing in the cockpit. Captian gives a crewmember instructions to look out of the only window that gives a view of that engine to give a quick inspection. That window is right beside you. You are asked to de-ass your seat, without any reason. Because you know, the word "fire" or "engine trouble" tends to make folks lose their shit. You refuse because you believe in the land of purple sky that you 'deserve' a valid reason. Well you don't, and that just became passenger noncompliance.

And that is what happened here? On the ground?

The way this plays out on the ground is simple. Plane is boarded, positive space crewmembers walk up needing to get on. Nobody gets off. First Officer goes outside to perform preflight walk-around inspection. FO informs the Capt and maintenance that the main gear tires appear to be a little low on air pressure. Maintenance says "no problem, be right there. Deplane the entire aircraft of passengers and bags so we can get an accurate reading."
So now you can either get off or be drug off. Once everyone is off maintenance checks it out, adds a bit of air while everyone in the terminal watches through the windows, and signs it off. Now you may reboard the aircraft. Guess who isn't getting back on.

See how simple that is? That's why the argument that "once boarded always boarded" is so simple-mindedly juvenile. I can come up with many reasons off the top of my head, any one of which will lead to deplaning all the passengers. Tires look low. Gear struts look low. I want a security sweep... I can get you and everyone else off that plane real easy. Then we can reorganize the seat map to our hearts content.

What laws, regulations, ordinances, royal edicts, international agreements, legal contracts (written or verbal), or interstellar treatise did I violate?

None.

Yeah; "simple".

What a clever plan.

Posted: 4/23/2017 10:40:14 PM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:

Thanks for offering your opinion anyway.

http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/united-cites-wrong-rule-for-illegally-de-boarding-passenger/

http://www.newsweek.com/why-united-were-legally-wrong-deplane-dr-dao-583535

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/11/airlines-detail-flight-rules-contracts-of-carriage/100331176/

I can quote news articles too.

Some Newsweek opinion or law journal doesn't change the fact that if the airline wants you off the plane for any reason, you are getting off. Moreover, you agree to as much in the 69 pages of fine print when you click "I agree".

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:10:26 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/11/airlines-detail-flight-rules-contracts-of-carriage/100331176/

I can quote news articles too.

Some Newsweek opinion or law journal doesn't change the fact that if the airline wants you off the plane for any reason, you are getting off. Moreover, you agree to as much in the 69 pages of fine print when you click "I agree".

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Go ahead then.

And fuck what the attorneys and the professors of law who write in law journals have to say because you say otherwise.

And BTW: people have legal rights in addition to those spelled out in a contract they agreed to, and those legal rights supercede the contract.

There are specific circumstances under which a boarded passenger can be removed and "for any reason" isn't among them.

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:13:49 PM EDT

[#14]

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Yeah; "simple".

What a clever plan.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6b/a7/ab/6ba7ab9fa79bf82e9528d28374f06f50.jpg

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Passenger Noncompliance. Passenger noncompliance with Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) safety regulations may result in interference with a crewmember. This is a violation of 14 CFR part 121 and may also be a criminal violation under Title 49 of the United States Code (49 U.S.C.) § 46318(a). Air carriers should have procedures in their manuals to ensure that crewmembers know what actions to take if a passenger does not comply with the safety regulations and/or interferes with a crewmember.

I know this is going to be rebutted with "well if I'm just sitting and reading a book following the rules they can't tell me to get up!" WRONG.

Let's say the right engine has caused some magic light flashing in the cockpit. Captian gives a crewmember instructions to look out of the only window that gives a view of that engine to give a quick inspection. That window is right beside you. You are asked to de-ass your seat, without any reason. Because you know, the word "fire" or "engine trouble" tends to make folks lose their shit. You refuse because you believe in the land of purple sky that you 'deserve' a valid reason. Well you don't, and that just became passenger noncompliance.

And that is what happened here? On the ground?

The way this plays out on the ground is simple. Plane is boarded, positive space crewmembers walk up needing to get on. Nobody gets off. First Officer goes outside to perform preflight walk-around inspection. FO informs the Capt and maintenance that the main gear tires appear to be a little low on air pressure. Maintenance says "no problem, be right there. Deplane the entire aircraft of passengers and bags so we can get an accurate reading."
So now you can either get off or be drug off. Once everyone is off maintenance checks it out, adds a bit of air while everyone in the terminal watches through the windows, and signs it off. Now you may reboard the aircraft. Guess who isn't getting back on.

See how simple that is? That's why the argument that "once boarded always boarded" is so simple-mindedly juvenile. I can come up with many reasons off the top of my head, any one of which will lead to deplaning all the passengers. Tires look low. Gear struts look low. I want a security sweep... I can get you and everyone else off that plane real easy. Then we can reorganize the seat map to our hearts content.

What laws, regulations, ordinances, royal edicts, international agreements, legal contracts (written or verbal), or interstellar treatise did I violate?

None.

Yeah; "simple".

What a clever plan.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/6b/a7/ab/6ba7ab9fa79bf82e9528d28374f06f50.jpg

Still too complicated for you, eh? Prefer cartoons, do yuh?

Try this one on.

"Folks, we can't find any evidence of this aircraft's required daily security sweep. We're going to have to ask everyone to grab all of your belongings and exit the aircraft. We'll notify you when the security sweep is complete. Shouldn't be more than 10 minutes. Thank you."

I can go all day long but the simple take away is that if I want you off the plane, have faith, your ass will be off the plane.

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:14:48 PM EDT

[#15]

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Go ahead then.

And fuck what the attorneys and the professors of law who write in law journals have to say because you say otherwise.

And BTW: people have legal rights in addition to those spelled out in a contract they agreed to, and those legal rights supercede the contract.

There are specific circumstances under which a boarded passenger can be removed and "for any reason" isn't among them.

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Look, it's not good business, so you are not going to be kicked off for no reason.

But if there is a reason, and the airline wants you off the plane, you are getting off the plane.

I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings.

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:16:33 PM EDT

[#16]

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Go ahead then.

And fuck what the attorneys and the professors of law who write in law journals have to say because you say otherwise.

And BTW: people have legal rights in addition to those spelled out in a contract they agreed to, and those legal rights supercede the contract.

There are specific circumstances under which a boarded passenger can be removed and "for any reason" isn't among them.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/11/airlines-detail-flight-rules-contracts-of-carriage/100331176/

I can quote news articles too.

Some Newsweek opinion or law journal doesn't change the fact that if the airline wants you off the plane for any reason, you are getting off. Moreover, you agree to as much in the 69 pages of fine print when you click "I agree".

Go ahead then.

And fuck what the attorneys and the professors of law who write in law journals have to say because you say otherwise.

And BTW: people have legal rights in addition to those spelled out in a contract they agreed to, and those legal rights supercede the contract.

There are specific circumstances under which a boarded passenger can be removed and "for any reason" isn't among them.

What, like a security sweep? For maintenance? Go ahead. Call your lawyer.

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:20:00 PM EDT

[#17]

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What, like a security sweep? For maintenance? Go ahead. Call your lawyer.

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I'm sure his ambulance chaser could take on a Legacy Airline's legal team.

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:27:21 PM EDT

[#18]

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Look, it's not good business, so you are not going to be kicked off for no reason.

But if there is a reason, and the airline wants you off the plane, you are getting off the plane.

I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

Go ahead then.

And fuck what the attorneys and the professors of law who write in law journals have to say because you say otherwise.

And BTW: people have legal rights in addition to those spelled out in a contract they agreed to, and those legal rights supercede the contract.

There are specific circumstances under which a boarded passenger can be removed and "for any reason" isn't among them.

Look, it's not good business, so you are not going to be kicked off for no reason.

But if there is a reason, and the airline wants you off the plane, you are getting off the plane.

I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings.

You're the guy who just claimed you could quote legitimate sources of legal opinion to back your asinine assertions, but instead, you just dribbled more turd out of your ass again in the form of your own opinion.

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:30:15 PM EDT

[#19]

People have legal rights. lo fucking l. Troutman is correct, if the airline wants you off, you're getting off. Feel free to complain to the gate agent, write a letter to corporate, hire a lawyer or call up Jesus for some high power curses. The Captain is King on HIS aircraft. You're off.

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:34:04 PM EDT

[#20]

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What, like a security sweep? For maintenance? Go ahead. Call your lawyer.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/11/airlines-detail-flight-rules-contracts-of-carriage/100331176/

I can quote news articles too.

Some Newsweek opinion or law journal doesn't change the fact that if the airline wants you off the plane for any reason, you are getting off. Moreover, you agree to as much in the 69 pages of fine print when you click "I agree".

Go ahead then.

And fuck what the attorneys and the professors of law who write in law journals have to say because you say otherwise.

And BTW: people have legal rights in addition to those spelled out in a contract they agreed to, and those legal rights supercede the contract.

There are specific circumstances under which a boarded passenger can be removed and "for any reason" isn't among them.

What, like a security sweep? For maintenance? Go ahead. Call your lawyer.

I provided links to two independent, legitimate, sources of legal opinion that enumerated in detail, the specific circumstances under which an already boarded passenger can legally be removed.

You keep concocting schemes worthy of Pinky and The Brain or Wiley Coyote.

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:39:32 PM EDT

[#21]

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Quoted:

You're the guy who just claimed you could quote legitimate sources of legal opinion to back your asinine assertions, but instead, you just dribbled more turd out of your ass again in the form of your own opinion.

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Look man, I live in the real world and I'm telling you how it's is. Regardless of your opinion, there are several legal "catch alls" that give the airlines the power to assert their will. Chief among them, safety and PIC discretion. Several airline pilots have chimed in with examples. It's how it is amigo. Get over it.

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:43:21 PM EDT

[#22]

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Look man, I live in the real world and I'm telling you how it's is.Regardless of your opinion, there are several legal "catch alls" that give the airlines the power to assert their will. Chief among them, safety and PIC discretion. Several airline pilots have chimed in with examples. It's how it is amigo. Get over it.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

You're the guy who just claimed you could quote legitimate sources of legal opinion to back your asinine assertions, but instead, you just dribbled more turd out of your ass again in the form of your own opinion.

Look man, I live in the real world and I'm telling you how it's is.Regardless of your opinion, there are several legal "catch alls" that give the airlines the power to assert their will. Chief among them, safety and PIC discretion. Several airline pilots have chimed in with examples. It's how it is amigo. Get over it.

That's nice dear; now deliver what you promised or GTFO.

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:48:03 PM EDT

[#23]

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That's nice dear; now deliver what you promised or GTFO.

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I didn't promise anything. I said opinions aren't facts. Which they aren't, because yours is wrong.

I made fun of you for posting irrelevant opinion pieces.

It has been explained to you why and how you are wrong, by the people who do it for a living.

Concede the point and move on.

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:51:09 PM EDT

[#24]

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I didn't promise anything. I said opinions aren't facts. Which they aren't, because yours is wrong.

I made fun of you for posting irrelevant opinion pieces.

It has been explained to you why and how you are wrong, by the people who do it for a living.

Concede the point and move on.

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Quoted:

That's nice dear; now deliver what you promised or GTFO.

I didn't promise anything. I said opinions aren't facts. Which they aren't, because yours is wrong.

I made fun of you for posting irrelevant opinion pieces.

It has been explained to you why and how you are wrong, by the people who do it for a living.

Concede the point and move on.

So you can't provide what you said you could.

Posted: 4/23/2017 11:53:18 PM EDT

[#25]

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So you can't provide what you said you could.

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Are you on the spectrum? Serious question.

Posted: 4/24/2017 12:51:04 AM EDT

[#26]

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Quoted:
I provided links to two independent, legitimate, sources of legal opinion that enumerated in detail, the specific circumstances under which an already boarded passenger can legally be removed.

You keep concocting schemes worthy of Pinky and The Brain or Wiley Coyote.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/11/airlines-detail-flight-rules-contracts-of-carriage/100331176/

I can quote news articles too.

Some Newsweek opinion or law journal doesn't change the fact that if the airline wants you off the plane for any reason, you are getting off. Moreover, you agree to as much in the 69 pages of fine print when you click "I agree".

Go ahead then.

And fuck what the attorneys and the professors of law who write in law journals have to say because you say otherwise.

And BTW: people have legal rights in addition to those spelled out in a contract they agreed to, and those legal rights supercede the contract.

There are specific circumstances under which a boarded passenger can be removed and "for any reason" isn't among them.

What, like a security sweep? For maintenance? Go ahead. Call your lawyer.

I provided links to two independent, legitimate, sources of legal opinion that enumerated in detail, the specific circumstances under which an already boarded passenger can legally be removed.

You keep concocting schemes worthy of Pinky and The Brain or Wiley Coyote.

Do you deny my ability to carry through with what I claim? You're delusional. Seriously, you're delusional. It's not some fanciful sceme. I've deplaned aircraft for both of those reasons already. And another I might add. We had a faulty cover on the "Passenger O2" switch light once. It allowed the switch to be inadvertently depressed without the cover being moved out of the way. Every goddamned mask dropped including the 2 in the lavatory. It's what we call "the rubber jungle". It happened as we were preparing to push back from the gate. This kinda shit happens from time to time. Everyone had to get off so maintenance could fix the switch and stow the masks one by one. This is reality. People will be boarded and upon occasion they will all be asked to get off again. But you go ahead and tell yourself otherwise because of some dumbasses "legal opinion".

You've clearly been watching too many cartoons.

Posted: 4/24/2017 2:34:37 AM EDT

[#27]

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Quoted:
ALL Passengers should just form a Union

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Sort of, a de facto Passenger Lives Matter

Posted: 4/24/2017 7:02:24 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
Do you deny my ability to carry through with what I claim? You're delusional. Seriously, you're delusional. It's not some fanciful sceme. I've deplaned aircraft for both of those reasons already. And another I might add. We had a faulty cover on the "Passenger O2" switch light once. It allowed the switch to be inadvertently depressed without the cover being moved out of the way. Every goddamned mask dropped including the 2 in the lavatory. It's what we call "the rubber jungle". It happened as we were preparing to push back from the gate. This kinda shit happens from time to time. Everyone had to get off so maintenance could fix the switch and stow the masks one by one. This is reality. People will be boarded and upon occasion they will all be asked to get off again. But you go ahead and tell yourself otherwise because of some dumbasses "legal opinion".

You've clearly been watching too many cartoons.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/11/airlines-detail-flight-rules-contracts-of-carriage/100331176/

I can quote news articles too.

Some Newsweek opinion or law journal doesn't change the fact that if the airline wants you off the plane for any reason, you are getting off. Moreover, you agree to as much in the 69 pages of fine print when you click "I agree".

Go ahead then.

And fuck what the attorneys and the professors of law who write in law journals have to say because you say otherwise.

And BTW: people have legal rights in addition to those spelled out in a contract they agreed to, and those legal rights supercede the contract.

There are specific circumstances under which a boarded passenger can be removed and "for any reason" isn't among them.

What, like a security sweep? For maintenance? Go ahead. Call your lawyer.

I provided links to two independent, legitimate, sources of legal opinion that enumerated in detail, the specific circumstances under which an already boarded passenger can legally be removed.

You keep concocting schemes worthy of Pinky and The Brain or Wiley Coyote.

Do you deny my ability to carry through with what I claim? You're delusional. Seriously, you're delusional. It's not some fanciful sceme. I've deplaned aircraft for both of those reasons already. And another I might add. We had a faulty cover on the "Passenger O2" switch light once. It allowed the switch to be inadvertently depressed without the cover being moved out of the way. Every goddamned mask dropped including the 2 in the lavatory. It's what we call "the rubber jungle". It happened as we were preparing to push back from the gate. This kinda shit happens from time to time. Everyone had to get off so maintenance could fix the switch and stow the masks one by one. This is reality. People will be boarded and upon occasion they will all be asked to get off again. But you go ahead and tell yourself otherwise because of some dumbasses "legal opinion".

You've clearly been watching too many cartoons.

Your non sequitur "example" for clearing an entire airplane is one in which there was an actual issue with the aircraft rather than the contrived bullshit scenario you provided as "proof" for your assertions.

Posted: 4/24/2017 7:11:00 AM EDT

[#29]

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In spite of what the social justice warriors in this thread and others want you to believe....Flying is a great way to travel. Yes there are some ass holes....both workers and passengers. But, there are FAR more ass holes driving our nation's roadways. Some even post in this thread.......

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When I vacation/travel I carry and I'm not at all inclined to give that up to board a plane.
We also take the dogs and parrot, really not the flying type.

Posted: 4/24/2017 7:28:09 AM EDT

[#30]

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For all the people bitching about the airlines....

Since they are so bad......quit fucking flying.

You can't or won't follow instructions? Quit fucking flying.

Don't like the TSA? Quit fucking flying.

Did your mommy tell that you are special? Guess what? You aren't.

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lol, I've laughed in the face of many TSA and/or Homeland folks. Now, I get to do it on the internet....

Nobody likes the TSA, people just tolerate them.

Posted: 4/24/2017 7:28:17 AM EDT

[#31]

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I'm sure his ambulance chaser could take on a Legacy Airline's legal team.

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Quoted:

What, like a security sweep? For maintenance? Go ahead. Call your lawyer.

I'm sure his ambulance chaser could take on a Legacy Airline's legal team.

And the derp keeps coming.

This thread truly delivers.

Posted: 4/24/2017 7:35:56 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

Your non sequitur "example" for clearing an entire airplane is one in which there was an actual issue with the aircraft rather than the contrived bullshit scenario you provided as "proof" for your assertions.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/11/airlines-detail-flight-rules-contracts-of-carriage/100331176/

I can quote news articles too.

Some Newsweek opinion or law journal doesn't change the fact that if the airline wants you off the plane for any reason, you are getting off. Moreover, you agree to as much in the 69 pages of fine print when you click "I agree".

Go ahead then.

And fuck what the attorneys and the professors of law who write in law journals have to say because you say otherwise.

And BTW: people have legal rights in addition to those spelled out in a contract they agreed to, and those legal rights supercede the contract.

There are specific circumstances under which a boarded passenger can be removed and "for any reason" isn't among them.

What, like a security sweep? For maintenance? Go ahead. Call your lawyer.

I provided links to two independent, legitimate, sources of legal opinion that enumerated in detail, the specific circumstances under which an already boarded passenger can legally be removed.

You keep concocting schemes worthy of Pinky and The Brain or Wiley Coyote.

Do you deny my ability to carry through with what I claim? You're delusional. Seriously, you're delusional. It's not some fanciful sceme. I've deplaned aircraft for both of those reasons already. And another I might add. We had a faulty cover on the "Passenger O2" switch light once. It allowed the switch to be inadvertently depressed without the cover being moved out of the way. Every goddamned mask dropped including the 2 in the lavatory. It's what we call "the rubber jungle". It happened as we were preparing to push back from the gate. This kinda shit happens from time to time. Everyone had to get off so maintenance could fix the switch and stow the masks one by one. This is reality. People will be boarded and upon occasion they will all be asked to get off again. But you go ahead and tell yourself otherwise because of some dumbasses "legal opinion".

You've clearly been watching too many cartoons.

Your non sequitur "example" for clearing an entire airplane is one in which there was an actual issue with the aircraft rather than the contrived bullshit scenario you provided as "proof" for your assertions.

Jesus, man. You've so badly misused the term "non sequitur" that it's clear you don't know what it means nor how to apply it. Let's review exactly what my assertion is... I'm asserting that if anyone thinks that just because they made it to their seat that they can only be removed for a few reasons then they are in for a surprise. There might legitimately be a security or maintenance related reason why they'll need to up-ass that seat during which time the problem can be resolved and they'll lose that seat in the shuffle. Or, if need be, in order to avoid bad pr and/or some bitch's hissyfit, I can just as easily generate a maintenance or security issue that will require deplaning the entire aircraft. The fact is, you will never know nor would you ever be able to prove the difference. But you'll damn sure comply.

Enjoy your "legal opinions".

Posted: 4/24/2017 7:36:22 AM EDT

[#33]

It doesn't matter if you are already on the aircraft or not.

denied boarding " means a refusal to carry passengers on a flight"

It is spelled out by EU and Brit airlines, and most others.

It isn't spelled out in that many words in the US airline 'contracts of carriage' , but the US airlines use the same definition, and so does the FAA

After the dust settles, I predict all the US airlines will spell it out just like that in their 'contracts'

That is how it has always been used and it will continue to be used that way.

Posted: 4/24/2017 7:40:21 AM EDT

[#34]

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Quoted:
It doesn't matter if you are already on the aircraft or not.

denied boarding " means a refusal to carry passengers on a flight"

It is spelled out by EU and Brit airlines, and most others.

It isn't spelled out in that many words in the US airline 'contracts of carriage' , but the US airlines use the same definition, and so does the FAA

After the dust settles, I predict all the US airlines will spell it out just like that in their 'contracts'

That is how it has always been used and it will continue to be used that way.

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There will be a number of people here that deny that simple fact because of "legal opinions" they read online.

Posted: 4/24/2017 8:42:05 AM EDT

[#35]

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Quoted:
There will be a number of people here that deny that simple fact because of "legal opinions" they read online.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
It doesn't matter if you are already on the aircraft or not.

denied boarding " means a refusal to carry passengers on a flight"

It is spelled out by EU and Brit airlines, and most others.

It isn't spelled out in that many words in the US airline 'contracts of carriage' , but the US airlines use the same definition, and so does the FAA

After the dust settles, I predict all the US airlines will spell it out just like that in their 'contracts'

That is how it has always been used and it will continue to be used that way.

There will be a number of people here that deny that simple fact because of "legal opinions" they read online.

Or because it is illogical. When United's CoC has one section for reasons they can deny boarding and another section for reasons they can remove you it does not follow that the two are equivalent.

Posted: 4/24/2017 9:42:04 AM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
Do you deny my ability to carry through with what I claim? You're delusional. Seriously, you're delusional. It's not some fanciful sceme. I've deplaned aircraft for both of those reasons already. And another I might add. We had a faulty cover on the "Passenger O2" switch light once. It allowed the switch to be inadvertently depressed without the cover being moved out of the way. Every goddamned mask dropped including the 2 in the lavatory. It's what we call "the rubber jungle". It happened as we were preparing to push back from the gate. This kinda shit happens from time to time. Everyone had to get off so maintenance could fix the switch and stow the masks one by one. This is reality. People will be boarded and upon occasion they will all be asked to get off again. But you go ahead and tell yourself otherwise because of some dumbasses "legal opinion".

.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/11/airlines-detail-flight-rules-contracts-of-carriage/100331176/

I can quote news articles too.

Some Newsweek opinion or law journal doesn't change the fact that if the airline wants you off the plane for any reason, you are getting off. Moreover, you agree to as much in the 69 pages of fine print when you click "I agree".

Go ahead then.

And fuck what the attorneys and the professors of law who write in law journals have to say because you say otherwise.

And BTW: people have legal rights in addition to those spelled out in a contract they agreed to, and those legal rights supercede the contract.

There are specific circumstances under which a boarded passenger can be removed and "for any reason" isn't among them.

What, like a security sweep? For maintenance? Go ahead. Call your lawyer.

I provided links to two independent, legitimate, sources of legal opinion that enumerated in detail, the specific circumstances under which an already boarded passenger can legally be removed.

You keep concocting schemes worthy of Pinky and The Brain or Wiley Coyote.

Do you deny my ability to carry through with what I claim? You're delusional. Seriously, you're delusional. It's not some fanciful sceme. I've deplaned aircraft for both of those reasons already. And another I might add. We had a faulty cover on the "Passenger O2" switch light once. It allowed the switch to be inadvertently depressed without the cover being moved out of the way. Every goddamned mask dropped including the 2 in the lavatory. It's what we call "the rubber jungle". It happened as we were preparing to push back from the gate. This kinda shit happens from time to time. Everyone had to get off so maintenance could fix the switch and stow the masks one by one. This is reality. People will be boarded and upon occasion they will all be asked to get off again. But you go ahead and tell yourself otherwise because of some dumbasses "legal opinion".

.

Some "dumbasses " who happen to be law professors, interpretations of applicable law, versus your own august opinion.......

Whose assessment of applicable law is more likely to be correct?

Hmmmmmmmmmmm?

That's a tough choice to make.

Posted: 4/24/2017 9:50:38 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

Your non sequitur "example" for clearing an entire airplane is one in which there was an actual issue with the aircraft rather than the contrived bullshit scenario you provided as "proof" for your assertions.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/04/11/airlines-detail-flight-rules-contracts-of-carriage/100331176/

I can quote news articles too.

Some Newsweek opinion or law journal doesn't change the fact that if the airline wants you off the plane for any reason, you are getting off. Moreover, you agree to as much in the 69 pages of fine print when you click "I agree".

Go ahead then.

And fuck what the attorneys and the professors of law who write in law journals have to say because you say otherwise.

And BTW: people have legal rights in addition to those spelled out in a contract they agreed to, and those legal rights supercede the contract.

There are specific circumstances under which a boarded passenger can be removed and "for any reason" isn't among them.

What, like a security sweep? For maintenance? Go ahead. Call your lawyer.

I provided links to two independent, legitimate, sources of legal opinion that enumerated in detail, the specific circumstances under which an already boarded passenger can legally be removed.

You keep concocting schemes worthy of Pinky and The Brain or Wiley Coyote.

Do you deny my ability to carry through with what I claim? You're delusional. Seriously, you're delusional. It's not some fanciful sceme. I've deplaned aircraft for both of those reasons already. And another I might add. We had a faulty cover on the "Passenger O2" switch light once. It allowed the switch to be inadvertently depressed without the cover being moved out of the way. Every goddamned mask dropped including the 2 in the lavatory. It's what we call "the rubber jungle". It happened as we were preparing to push back from the gate. This kinda shit happens from time to time. Everyone had to get off so maintenance could fix the switch and stow the masks one by one. This is reality. People will be boarded and upon occasion they will all be asked to get off again. But you go ahead and tell yourself otherwise because of some dumbasses "legal opinion".

You've clearly been watching too many cartoons.

Your non sequitur "example" for clearing an entire airplane is one in which there was an actual issue with the aircraft rather than the contrived bullshit scenario you provided as "proof" for your assertions.

When a pax who checks his bag and then does not board means a bag dump, this was started after 9/11, every bag comes off till they find the bag whose name matches the pax who missed the flight

Posted: 4/24/2017 10:11:13 AM EDT

[#38]

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Quoted:
When a pax who checks his bag and then does not board means a bag dump, this was started after 9/11, every bag comes off till they find the bag whose name matches the pax who missed the flight