User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 3:53:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey, shouldn't you be packing 12" barrels for shipment? No rest for the wicked! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 3:56:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you see the request from SOCOM for a Blackout conversion to their M4s? I guess MP7s aren't all that and a bag of chips. CAG also bought a metric shitload of .40s. How'd that work out for them (or the caliber) SOCOM asks for all kinds of shit. They'll buy a metric ton of 300 uppers. And then just get dedicated suppressed pistol caliber SMGs anyway. Everyone tries 300. and then they end up in meh land. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 3:58:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Remington's support for a new cartridge is almost a death sentence. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 4:45:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Geez, how'd you guys track me down way over here! No rest for the wicked! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Hey, shouldn't you be packing 12" barrels for shipment? No rest for the wicked! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 6:38:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because the 6.5 is the most powerful round you can stuff through the AR magwell in a double stack magazine. It's really not that difficult to understand why people want to bother with it. Combine that with cheap (under 25 cent) steel ammo, a plethora of .264 bullets for reloading, and the fact that I don't really care how douchey Alexander is. As long as he keeps designing cool shit. I spent a little bit trying to determine which cartridge was more popular, 6.8spc or 6.5 grendel, and couldn't really find any recent data. From personal experience, I'm not finding 6.8 anywhere I can't also find 6.5. There's no cheap 6.8 to be had anywhere, and as of this past year, I'm finding at least as many different rifle offerings in 6.5 as in 6.8. Personally, I never did jump on the 6.8 train. When that whole mess came up, I read up on the requirements for the spc cartridge, and thought, 'okay, I guess.' Then I found out about this Alexander guy, who was saying, "The 6.8 is the absolute best answer to the wrong questions. Then he laid out the case for something better, which ended up being the 6.5. I found myself agreeing (although I'm not personally a genius) with him. Everything I've seen since then tells me that I made the correct decision. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 6:38:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did. I guess MP7s aren't all that and a bag of chips. CAG also bought a metric shitload of .40s. How'd that work out for them (or the caliber) SOCOM asks for all kinds of shit. They'll buy a metric ton of 300 uppers. And then just get dedicated suppressed pistol caliber SMGs anyway. Everyone tries 300. and then they end up in meh land. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Did you see the request from SOCOM for a Blackout conversion to their M4s? I guess MP7s aren't all that and a bag of chips. CAG also bought a metric shitload of .40s. How'd that work out for them (or the caliber) SOCOM asks for all kinds of shit. They'll buy a metric ton of 300 uppers. And then just get dedicated suppressed pistol caliber SMGs anyway. Everyone tries 300. and then they end up in meh land. Could be Advanced Echelon teams going in before a JCET, FID, or other regular joint training missions with partner nations who have requested military assistance in training, or SR missions. It was common to have some teams requesting them in isolation for certain things. I can't remember how many there were available per Battalion, but not everybody that asked got them. .300 Whisper has been used by certain coalition SF units for a long time now for these types of things. I suspect the reason why the SOCOM solicitation is so specific as to length and weight is because of existing capabilities of other PDW-type weapons that have been in use for decades. People that read into it as a major caliber adoption over 5.56 are probably not aware of these considerations. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 6:42:25 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
blame me for that being in this thread. And let me caveat (with first post you try to be pithy) with I have no vested interest one way or the other. I am not a smith and I don't reload I am a casual shooter and retired soldier. I have never met Bill Alexander. I have no idea what he is like and I have never heard negative about him from people who actually know him. A fairer statement is he had that reputation. He was protectionist, and it appeared he had a cool cartridge that was so cool, he wanted everyone to go through him to get. As noted, this happened at the same time 6.8 was marketed, and was marketed much better at every level. In the AR world, proprietary is a very bad word and grendal started out proprietary and it turned a lot of people off which is why its popularity isn't as high as the cartridge warrants (which is the point of this whole thread). In a firearms world (and AR in particular) when there are so many great choices out there, having a niche product with proprietary (or at least that appearance) accessories, and what appears to be an aloof, if not arrogant, business plan, just turned people off. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 6:45:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Remington's support for a new cartridge is almost a death sentence. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 7:05:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would an Alexander Arms hard use bolt be a drop in part for a DSC (Double Star) 6.5 Grendel barrel? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 7:07:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did. I guess MP7s aren't all that and a bag of chips. CAG also bought a metric shitload of .40s. How'd that work out for them (or the caliber) SOCOM asks for all kinds of shit. They'll buy a metric ton of 300 uppers. And then just get dedicated suppressed pistol caliber SMGs anyway. Everyone tries 300. and then they end up in meh land. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Did you see the request from SOCOM for a Blackout conversion to their M4s? I guess MP7s aren't all that and a bag of chips. CAG also bought a metric shitload of .40s. How'd that work out for them (or the caliber) SOCOM asks for all kinds of shit. They'll buy a metric ton of 300 uppers. And then just get dedicated suppressed pistol caliber SMGs anyway. Everyone tries 300. and then they end up in meh land. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 7:11:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Am I remembering incorrectly? Didn't he release it as soon as SAAMI cleared? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
blame me for that being in this thread. And let me caveat (with first post you try to be pithy) with I have no vested interest one way or the other. I am not a smith and I don't reload I am a casual shooter and retired soldier. I have never met Bill Alexander. I have no idea what he is like and I have never heard negative about him from people who actually know him. A fairer statement is he had that reputation. He was protectionist, and it appeared he had a cool cartridge that was so cool, he wanted everyone to go through him to get. As noted, this happened at the same time 6.8 was marketed, and was marketed much better at every level. In the AR world, proprietary is a very bad word and grendal started out proprietary and it turned a lot of people off which is why its popularity isn't as high as the cartridge warrants (which is the point of this whole thread). In a firearms world (and AR in particular) when there are so many great choices out there, having a niche product with proprietary (or at least that appearance) accessories, and what appears to be an aloof, if not arrogant, business plan, just turned people off. The whole point for protecting it with strict standards was so that it would go to SAAMI. Everything that has been said against Bill Alexander's character online proved to be false, and actually the opposite. I used to believe some of it before I met him, and got to know him well. I honestly don't know how he maintains his calm and cheery composure. I've seen guys walk up to him at SHOT and say, "We love your product, but your hand guards look like sh*t. They need to be this and that way, etc." He just calmly replied to them that when they changed the hand guard to the newer one, people asked for the old one back, so they offer both, as well as customer upgrades if they want. Everybody has advice for successful people. It's funny to watch. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 7:13:41 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know that at least in each SF Group's inventory, there were a number of MP5SDs as special items of request for certain missions. Could be Advanced Echelon teams going in before a JCET, FID, or other regular joint training missions with partner nations who have requested military assistance in training, or SR missions. It was common to have some teams requesting them in isolation for certain things. I can't remember how many there were available per Battalion, but not everybody that asked got them. .300 Whisper has been used by certain coalition SF units for a long time now for these types of things. I suspect the reason why the SOCOM solicitation is so specific as to length and weight is because of existing capabilities of other PDW-type weapons that have been in use for decades. People that read into it as a major caliber adoption over 5.56 are probably not aware of these considerations. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 8:06:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cmon, according to Arfcom the SF snipers are changing over to .300 BLK too! It's across the board baby! |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 8:15:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, they're using .260s. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Cmon, according to Arfcom the SF snipers are changing over to .300 BLK too! It's across the board baby! |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 8:54:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did. I guess MP7s aren't all that and a bag of chips. CAG also bought a metric shitload of .40s. How'd that work out for them (or the caliber) SOCOM asks for all kinds of shit. They'll buy a metric ton of 300 uppers. And then just get dedicated suppressed pistol caliber SMGs anyway. Everyone tries 300. and then they end up in meh land. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Did you see the request from SOCOM for a Blackout conversion to their M4s? I guess MP7s aren't all that and a bag of chips. CAG also bought a metric shitload of .40s. How'd that work out for them (or the caliber) SOCOM asks for all kinds of shit. They'll buy a metric ton of 300 uppers. And then just get dedicated suppressed pistol caliber SMGs anyway. Everyone tries 300. and then they end up in meh land. A LOT of people DO end up in meh land with the 300 Blackout. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 10:20:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, looks like SOCOM is looking for a really short PDW in 300 BLK A LOT of people DO end up in meh land with the 300 Blackout. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 10:30:53 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would an extremely short 300 BLK do that an MP5K with the right ammo can't do? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yep, looks like SOCOM is looking for a really short PDW in 300 BLK A LOT of people DO end up in meh land with the 300 Blackout. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 10:43:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, they're using .260s. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 10:47:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Be more effective and have greater parts commonality with issued rifles. The parts commonality aspect is a fair point. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 11:03:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How much more effective? The specifications outlined by SOCOM seem to demand a 6"-8" barrel. Given the tremendous ballistic disadvantage this creates, how much more effective would it be than 9mm +p? There are some pretty impressive armor-piercing 9mm projectiles out there as well as subsonics too. The parts commonality aspect is a fair point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Be more effective and have greater parts commonality with issued rifles. The parts commonality aspect is a fair point. Even out of a 7.5" barrel, it's delivering ballistics on par with a 7.62x39, and has more advanced projectiles than a 9mm. That's ignoring the raging piece of shit the MP5 is. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 11:31:04 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Alright, since you brought up different kinds of ammo, the Blackout is a no-shit rifle round and brings everything to the table that entails. Even out of a 7.5" barrel, it's delivering ballistics on par with a 7.62x39, and has more advanced projectiles than a 9mm. That's ignoring the raging piece of shit the MP5 is. Yes it's better in most ways than 9mm. No it's not a good rifle round. ETA A better round to compare .300 blackout to is .30 Carbine, almost EXACTLY the same ballistics and if loaded with the same weights/types of bulkets would probably be even closer. Would you advocate they go into battle with short barrel M1 Carbines? Because as I recall most people don't think too much of that cartridge... ETA 2 Honestly, I don't care what they faceshoot assholes with wether it's .22 TCM or .454 Casull. But the use of hyperbole on the MP5 and .300 BLK argument is nonsense. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 11:38:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not a great rifle round, by any stretch, and it's only on par with 7.62x39 out of a similar length barrel. Yes it's better in most ways than 9mm. No it's not a good rifle round. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/20/2017 11:39:47 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Out of a 6 inch barrel like the MP5k a Barnes 110 300blk has over twice as much energy as a Federal 124 +P. Approx 370 vs 860. Plus since the BC on the BLK is twice as efficient the range is exponentially better. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 12:01:26 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right. Over. Head. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Out of a 6 inch barrel like the MP5k a Barnes 110 300blk has over twice as much energy as a Federal 124 +P. Approx 370 vs 860. Plus since the BC on the BLK is twice as efficient the range is exponentially better. 6.5G would be a better option out of a 6" barrel. ^^^There, now the thread's back on track. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 12:12:05 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right. Over. Head. If I'm reading it correctly, the deal with the .300blk is that you can run it suppressed with heavy, subsonic bullets, it's as quiet or quieter than the MP5 with significantly more impact, and then, without changing anything but ammo, it's a decently powered supersonic round. Standard load in a .30 carbine seems to have been a 110gr round nose going around 1900fps. .300blk pushes a 125gr at around 2250. Not really identical. You want nearly identical, go to the 7.92 kurz, the granddaddy of all assault rifle calibers. 123gr bullet at 2250. Now THAT'S near identical. I think the thing that tickles me most about the .300blk is that, after almost 80 years, the whole thing has come full circle. Almost as funny as the fact that the .40S&W in its basic load is virtually identical, ballistically, to the old .38-40. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 12:27:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...The specifications outlined by SOCOM seem to demand a 6"-8" barrel. Given the tremendous ballistic disadvantage this creates, how much more effective would it be than 9mm +p? maybe this disadvantage is seen when taking inches off a 5.56 barrel, but 300 blk works great in SBR's, both suppressed and supersonic. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 12:30:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Would an Alexander Arms hard use bolt be a drop in part for a DSC (Double Star) 6.5 Grendel barrel?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 3:05:14 AM EDT
[#28]
300blk is a niche cartridge for shooting subsonic ammo out of a AR reliably. When you get into sonic stuff there are better options.
The issue with 300 BLKout as a subsonic round is the lack of widely available ammo that will reliably expand at subsonic velocities. (At least as of a year ago when I got out of the cartridge completely) |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 7:31:13 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once a cartridge goes to SAAMI, there is no trademark really to be enforced. The whole point for protecting it with strict standards was so that it would go to SAAMI. Everything that has been said against Bill Alexander's character online proved to be false, and actually the opposite. I used to believe some of it before I met him, and got to know him well. I honestly don't know how he maintains his calm and cheery composure. I've seen guys walk up to him at SHOT and say, "We love your product, but your hand guards look like sh*t. They need to be this and that way, etc." He just calmly replied to them that when they changed the hand guard to the newer one, people asked for the old one back, so they offer both, as well as customer upgrades if they want. Everybody has advice for successful people. It's funny to watch. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
blame me for that being in this thread. And let me caveat (with first post you try to be pithy) with I have no vested interest one way or the other. I am not a smith and I don't reload I am a casual shooter and retired soldier. I have never met Bill Alexander. I have no idea what he is like and I have never heard negative about him from people who actually know him. A fairer statement is he had that reputation. He was protectionist, and it appeared he had a cool cartridge that was so cool, he wanted everyone to go through him to get. As noted, this happened at the same time 6.8 was marketed, and was marketed much better at every level. In the AR world, proprietary is a very bad word and grendal started out proprietary and it turned a lot of people off which is why its popularity isn't as high as the cartridge warrants (which is the point of this whole thread). In a firearms world (and AR in particular) when there are so many great choices out there, having a niche product with proprietary (or at least that appearance) accessories, and what appears to be an aloof, if not arrogant, business plan, just turned people off. The whole point for protecting it with strict standards was so that it would go to SAAMI. Everything that has been said against Bill Alexander's character online proved to be false, and actually the opposite. I used to believe some of it before I met him, and got to know him well. I honestly don't know how he maintains his calm and cheery composure. I've seen guys walk up to him at SHOT and say, "We love your product, but your hand guards look like sh*t. They need to be this and that way, etc." He just calmly replied to them that when they changed the hand guard to the newer one, people asked for the old one back, so they offer both, as well as customer upgrades if they want. Everybody has advice for successful people. It's funny to watch. I can imagine being a bit of a prickly sort with those kind of interactions. Grendel question, when I am looking for a barrel/bolt combo, I should be looking for a barrel that has a SAAMI spec chamber and .136 bolt face depth correct? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 7:32:56 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, looks like SOCOM is looking for a really short PDW in 300 BLK A LOT of people DO end up in meh land with the 300 Blackout. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Did you see the request from SOCOM for a Blackout conversion to their M4s? I guess MP7s aren't all that and a bag of chips. CAG also bought a metric shitload of .40s. How'd that work out for them (or the caliber) SOCOM asks for all kinds of shit. They'll buy a metric ton of 300 uppers. And then just get dedicated suppressed pistol caliber SMGs anyway. Everyone tries 300. and then they end up in meh land. A LOT of people DO end up in meh land with the 300 Blackout. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 7:45:35 AM EDT
[#31]
I built an upper using DEZ Arms 18" mid gas match barrels in 6.5 Grendel and absolutly love them. Sub MOA with deadly accuracy. Just killed 2 200 lb. hogs at right around 100 yards with it. One of the hogs was shot in the shoulder and a Hornady 123gr. SST blew right through the armor on the pig leaving a Half dollar sized exit wound. Only went 30 yards. Second one was a head shot and it was lights out. Now that Wolf is supplying this ammo I don't see how it won't become very popular. It is my favorite.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 7:52:20 AM EDT
[#32]
Look at DEZ Arms for your barrel and bolt.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 8:19:27 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure I got it either. If I'm reading it correctly, the deal with the .300blk is that you can run it suppressed with heavy, subsonic bullets, it's as quiet or quieter than the MP5 with significantly more impact, and then, without changing anything but ammo, it's a decently powered supersonic round. Standard load in a .30 carbine seems to have been a 110gr round nose going around 1900fps. .300blk pushes a 125gr at around 2250. Not really identical. You want nearly identical, go to the 7.92 kurz, the granddaddy of all assault rifle calibers. 123gr bullet at 2250. Now THAT'S near identical. I think the thing that tickles me most about the .300blk is that, after almost 80 years, the whole thing has come full circle. Almost as funny as the fact that the .40S&W in its basic load is virtually identical, ballistically, to the old .38-40. A: .300 BLK is not a "good" rifle round, it's barely ok. B. It's way better than 9mm C. It's really dumb when people say all these ridiculous "but it's awesome at this!" stuff when it's clearly not awesome at it, it's just better than a cartridge that's not even in the same class. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 8:53:07 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My point was that: A: .300 BLK is not a "good" rifle round, it's barely ok. B. It's way better than 9mm C. It's really dumb when people say all these ridiculous "but it's awesome at this!" stuff when it's clearly not awesome at it, it's just better than a cartridge that's not even in the same class. Back to the 6.5 G. Factory Subs would be cool. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 11:15:36 AM EDT
[#35]
OK, this thread is not about Bill Alexander, per se, but I guess some are implying the 6.5 Grendel is not more popular because of his personality. Some enjoy calling him an asshole and say they won't do business with him. If you know him personally, none of this makes sense.
Let me ask you if you'd do business with a guy who said this: "Guys who join the military are losers who can't get a better job anywhere else. I feel sorry for those suckers who got themselves sent to Iraq while I was driving around in my Mercedes picking up chicks with big fake tits." Is that guy an asshole? Would you do business with him? What if the guy who said that is one of the most popular vendors in the 6.8 SPC world? So don't be hypocrites. Just gonna say this: Don't call BA an asshole unless you know him personally. Unless he kicked your dog and said your wife was ugly. If you disagree with his business practices insofar as you are familiar with them, fine, disagree. To me, it's like calling Reed Knight an asshole cuz he wouldn't license his bolt design to you. Actually, it's more like calling Reed Knight an asshole because a friend of your second cousin's brother is mad that he couldn't license his bolt design. If you're gonna be name calling, at least know what you're talking about. And don't be a hypocrite. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 12:02:25 PM EDT
[#36]
12" shipping update?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 12:07:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Am awaiting update on 12" myself.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 12:13:45 PM EDT
[#38]
To me the 6.5G is plenty popular. I own 4 firearms that fire the 6.5Grendel. I don't care if there are not 20 or 30 different factory loads lining every gunstore shelf. I makes little difference that I cannot find a rifle at my lgs since I do mine in builds anyway. The 6.5G was accepted into SAAMI, that in and of itself is a big plus. However it is not a game changer.
The 6.5G hits significantly harder than the 556. It is almost identical to the 6.8SPC out to 300yds. It comes very close to 308 performance in a short action ar15 platform. I chose the 6.5G for me. Not because it was popular. If I begin to do that I will be done. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 1:15:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Was doing some Googlefu and reading random forums about Grendel topics. There is a ton of misinformation out there. Lots of 6.8 guys too.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 1:16:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was doing some Googlefu and reading random forums about Grendel topics. There is a ton of misinformation out there. Lots of 6.8 guys too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 1:31:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of misinformation? Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of misinformation? http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=571345 300 BO is 200yds max. While the 6.5 is capable of long range 600+ the AR platform is lacking for true longrange accuracy. This leaves you with the 6.8 as the best option. The only real down side is buying dedicated 6.8 magazines. They say the ballistic difference between the two is negligible out to 600+ yards. So you wouldnt see the benefits of the grendel to warrant the upcharge in ammo. Id go with the 6.8 and go shooting! Downside i found to the Grendel was ammo isn't as easy to find. Even though it's easy to get right now it may be impossible next time there is an ammo buying spree. And you would probably want to have a 20" barrel to get the most out of a 6.5. So if I wanted to shoot further than 300 I would step up to one of the light weight 308 rifles and be done with it. 308 ammo is everywhere and it's not going to be THAT much heavier than a long barrel 6.5. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 1:39:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would an extremely short 300 BLK do that an MP5K with the right ammo can't do? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 1:49:42 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would an extremely short 300 BLK do that an MP5K with the right ammo can't do? And if they impact at the same velocity, the long skinny .30 cal will punch further into something or someone than the short fat 9mm. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 6:19:43 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My point was that: A: .300 BLK is not a "good" rifle round, it's barely ok. B. It's way better than 9mm C. It's really dumb when people say all these ridiculous "but it's awesome at this!" stuff when it's clearly not awesome at it, it's just better than a cartridge that's not even in the same class. Even leaving aside the whole subsonic-suppressable angle, your statement is a little hard to give much credence to. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 6:51:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did. I guess MP7s aren't all that and a bag of chips. CAG also bought a metric shitload of .40s. How'd that work out for them (or the caliber) SOCOM asks for all kinds of shit. They'll buy a metric ton of 300 uppers. And then just get dedicated suppressed pistol caliber SMGs anyway. Everyone tries 300. and then they end up in meh land. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Did you see the request from SOCOM for a Blackout conversion to their M4s? I guess MP7s aren't all that and a bag of chips. CAG also bought a metric shitload of .40s. How'd that work out for them (or the caliber) SOCOM asks for all kinds of shit. They'll buy a metric ton of 300 uppers. And then just get dedicated suppressed pistol caliber SMGs anyway. Everyone tries 300. and then they end up in meh land. The German MP unit I worked with had a mountain of them and plenty of ammo. They were great overall...in terms of reliability, accuracy...but they are never going to be more than a short range bullet hose. Their general concept was that the PDW was run on auto as it was easy to control. 5-7 round bursts (longer than normal), 2-3 bursts per target. It was workable at CQB distances. Reloads were fast because the mag goes in the grip. The can worked well. On single, you could easily make rapid headshots. It's still a PDW caliber though...so unless you are a NSW unit sneaking into a house to pop sleeping people in the head...maybe not that useful. Still better than a Beretta. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 6:59:13 PM EDT
[#46]
so the question becomes how many different types of "PDWs" do you need?
Hell, the FN with the 5.7 seemed like a better concept than the MP7. I have zero experience with either. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 7:23:54 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I watched an interview with him regarding the .300 BLK and I thought his points were dead on re: bullet construction. Seems like a knowledgeable guy, who really cares about his personality? But I agree with you, it seems people are concerned with trying to advise people who have already had success about how to continue it or adjust it to their personal impressions of what it should be. It's nice to hear that he has a sense of calm about it. I can imagine being a bit of a prickly sort with those kind of interactions. Grendel question, when I am looking for a barrel/bolt combo, I should be looking for a barrel that has a SAAMI spec chamber and .136 bolt face depth correct? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
blame me for that being in this thread. And let me caveat (with first post you try to be pithy) with I have no vested interest one way or the other. I am not a smith and I don't reload I am a casual shooter and retired soldier. I have never met Bill Alexander. I have no idea what he is like and I have never heard negative about him from people who actually know him. A fairer statement is he had that reputation. He was protectionist, and it appeared he had a cool cartridge that was so cool, he wanted everyone to go through him to get. As noted, this happened at the same time 6.8 was marketed, and was marketed much better at every level. In the AR world, proprietary is a very bad word and grendal started out proprietary and it turned a lot of people off which is why its popularity isn't as high as the cartridge warrants (which is the point of this whole thread). In a firearms world (and AR in particular) when there are so many great choices out there, having a niche product with proprietary (or at least that appearance) accessories, and what appears to be an aloof, if not arrogant, business plan, just turned people off. The whole point for protecting it with strict standards was so that it would go to SAAMI. Everything that has been said against Bill Alexander's character online proved to be false, and actually the opposite. I used to believe some of it before I met him, and got to know him well. I honestly don't know how he maintains his calm and cheery composure. I've seen guys walk up to him at SHOT and say, "We love your product, but your hand guards look like sh*t. They need to be this and that way, etc." He just calmly replied to them that when they changed the hand guard to the newer one, people asked for the old one back, so they offer both, as well as customer upgrades if they want. Everybody has advice for successful people. It's funny to watch. I can imagine being a bit of a prickly sort with those kind of interactions. Grendel question, when I am looking for a barrel/bolt combo, I should be looking for a barrel that has a SAAMI spec chamber and .136 bolt face depth correct? Bill will spend the time explaining it to you so that you know how the watch works, not just what time it is. He is very rare in this industry. Not only should you get a SAAMI chamber with a .136" (-.003" allowance, I've seen +1 on some bolts to that, didn't make a difference), but the bolt needs to be at least 2.810" long to be compatible with common firing pins on the market. AA already had that engineering done in the early 2000s. The after market responded by thinking that the poorly designed "7.62x39" bolts floating around would be fine, so Model 1 Sales started cranking out "6.5 Shorter" uppers with break-a-bolt in a mag bolts, .125" face depth, and then others figured that was fine too, without anyone really looking at a Grendel bolt. There are number of important differences in the Grendel bolt to warrant the consumer to lean on getting bolts and barrels from reputable companies that have learned all the little nuances long ago. AA, Les Baer, PF, JP, Lilja, and now the economy Anderson/Wolf come to mind, although I have not put my hands and calipers on an Anderson bolt or upper. Reviews have been good on them so far, with lots of steel case being shot through them. I personally have been using AA and PF/Maxim bolts for many years now. My original 16" AA barrel/bolt combo is still trucking along, untold thousands of rounds later, including a lot of ladder tests that went way beyond SAAMI MAP when I was looking for departure trends in velocity. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 8:10:17 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
so the question becomes how many different types of "PDWs" do you need? The lower is build as: an SBR'd Anderson lower with a CMC 4.5# flat trigger and a Law Tactical AR Folding Stock Adapter Gen 3-M & MagPul CTR Stock Bedroom gun that replaces the 870 pump
Get up, put .300 BLK upper in safe, get 6.5Grendel upper out, spin dial My everything else from hunting to trunk gun to tractor gun to zombie apocalypse start
Sig Sauer SRD762 QD In my opinion and from what I've read, the .300 BLK suppressed with 220 subsonics would be better for inside the house festivities. Outside of that, the 6.5 Grendel 12" will handle everything that an olde phart will run into while out on the farm or going to work. *Take this as my opinion. I disavow having gone to the ME and done stuffs. ETS'd a year before Bush the Elder started that whole shit show. Disavow having been trained by or assigned to a HSLD unit. Just my opinion from having BTDT of having survived a home invasion in my house at 03:13. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 8:25:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Got to take my revised Grendel out over the weekend and was much happier with the results (I had disappointing results with a JP barrel (nothing against JP). Made some other changes as well). It didn't seem to like factory Hornady SSTs as much (about 1.25" groups @ 100 yards), but did really well with factory Hornady A-Max (both groups below are about 0.6", 5 shots). Unfortunately I only had 10 rounds of the A-Max left.
I have a couple hundred Nosler ABLRs on the way in (thanks to Arfcom for locating them in stock for me) and am looking forward to see what my handloads can do through it.  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/21/2017 8:38:31 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure I got it either. If I'm reading it correctly, the deal with the .300blk is that you can run it suppressed with heavy, subsonic bullets, it's as quiet or quieter than the MP5 with significantly more impact, and then, without changing anything but ammo, it's a decently powered supersonic round. Standard load in a .30 carbine seems to have been a 110gr round nose going around 1900fps. .300blk pushes a 125gr at around 2250. Not really identical. You want nearly identical, go to the 7.92 kurz, the granddaddy of all assault rifle calibers. 123gr bullet at 2250. Now THAT'S near identical. I think the thing that tickles me most about the .300blk is that, after almost 80 years, the whole thing has come full circle. Almost as funny as the fact that the .40S&W in its basic load is virtually identical, ballistically, to the old .38-40. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Right. Over. Head. If I'm reading it correctly, the deal with the .300blk is that you can run it suppressed with heavy, subsonic bullets, it's as quiet or quieter than the MP5 with significantly more impact, and then, without changing anything but ammo, it's a decently powered supersonic round. Standard load in a .30 carbine seems to have been a 110gr round nose going around 1900fps. .300blk pushes a 125gr at around 2250. Not really identical. You want nearly identical, go to the 7.92 kurz, the granddaddy of all assault rifle calibers. 123gr bullet at 2250. Now THAT'S near identical. I think the thing that tickles me most about the .300blk is that, after almost 80 years, the whole thing has come full circle. Almost as funny as the fact that the .40S&W in its basic load is virtually identical, ballistically, to the old .38-40. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
