Slightly off topic, but I got a surprise tonight. There was talk earlier in the thread about how .300aacblk was a niche cartridge and hard to find. I was in the local Walmart and stopped by the ammo counter (like ya do) looking for cheap .308 bullets. While I was talking to the guy about what constituted cheap, I mentioned .300blk. He said, "oh, yeah, we sell tons of that stuff. It's right over there," and he pointed to the display case. Sure enough, nice high stack of Federal 120 gr supers, $15.56 per box of 20.

I asked if it was a special thing, but he said they carry it all the time. So there's that sorted, at least for now.

I'm kinda thinking about trying to reload some steel, just to see how it goes. I've got a video downloaded somewhere where a guy lays it all out, though he's reloading 7.62X54r, I think.

Also, I got my friend infected with BRD, AND GSD (Grendel Shooter's Disease) so if anybody sees any good sales on longer 6.5 uppers, post it here so I can finished hooking him.

No that was the mag length 20" bbl in the .308 vs. single feed length 24" bbl in the 6.5Grendel......and of that wasn't the point, he wanted the data.

RANGE REPORT, first time over 100yds with rifle.

I fired 100 230s and 135 140s Friday from 343 to 1052yds.


The shitty 140Nosler CCs that I threw together with an unknown primer did ok. I fired a 5 shot group to get zero offset, lol it was 1.3moa.

1st shot at 563yds AB mobile  predicted 4.7mil and was right on, second shot right on.

1st shot at 687yds AB mobile predicted 6.7mil and was right on as was the second shot.

1st shot at 757yds AB mobile predicted 8.0mil was 8.1mil to be centered.

At 1052yds where it would be subsonic, I couldn't see any hits or signs of the bullet anywhere. 

I thought maybe it was tumbling until I fired my good 140Hybrid load.

The 140hybrid load was spot on with AB mobile predictions at 6 distances but I could not spot my shots at 1052yds. The plate wasn't fresh painted so it was hard to see new hits and there was a 8mph tail wind so I could hardly hear hits at 757 much less 1052.

The tight SDs really showed up on the targets verticals were perfect. Next time hopefully I can spot my shots for over 1k. Both the 140CC amd 140Hybrid bullets did great out to 757yds and both were right on with AB mobile.

The 140CustComps were 2300fps(mag length l)
The 140Hybrids were 2464fps(single)


Of course the .308 with 230s it was easy to hear and see the hits at 1052 making a nice .5mil x .5mil 15shot group. I couldn't  miss with it even down to 4" plates at 500, had a couple misses at the 3" @500. The wind was perfect.
There was hardly a bullet that didn't get smashed into steel

Quite happy with the new rifle. Would like to get a brake for it though to easier spot shots, my .308 shooting the 230s stays on target better than the 6.5G. 

You know why I love Grendel?

Because I'm terrible at rifle shooting, not hilarious bad, but I've never done any classes or consistently worked at improving my rifle shooting, never had a place to practice either. Pistol has always been my thing.

But this 20" build I put together (my first by the way) will put 123gr Amaxs into the same hole for me at 100yds on a stout windy day. Bottom left is a flyer from another group. Seems I (pull/push?) up and to the right when I miss.
I'll let you guess how well I'd do with a .308 or 30-06 etc.

Attached File

You're probably snatching the trigger or wishing the shot off.

If you're shooting short action and really want to reach out and beat the 230gr Berger Hybrid, go with a short 7mm pushing the 195gr EOL.

195gr EOL has .387 G7 BC to the 230's .368

It goes faster too for the same charge weight, and impacts steel like a boss.

But now you're not talking about an AR15 anymore, and are into short action wildcats or long actions pushing 7WSM, 7mm Mag, etc.

Those bullets alone are ~$55/box before shipping.

You can shoot the 130gr Berger VLD or Hybrid OTM mag-fed from the Grendel at 1000yds all day.

That's a good load, with several factory loads supporting it now, including Federal Gold Medal Match.

Just got the Howa Mini in 6.5 Grendel, 22".

Ordered an Outer Impact 20 MOA scope base, installed with Red Loc-tite.

Warne low Rings, put on my Viper PST 2.5-10x44 MRAD SFP.

I'm getting ready to do load development with it.

Need more magazine options

Dave addressed the "patent owner" and "business sense".  Bill Alexander's decisions proved to be correct, despite all the criticism from people who can't get SAAMI spelled correctly (often see SAMMI), don't even know what SAAMI is or how it works.

Barrel life exceeds 5.56 and .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO easily.  Chamber pressure is substantially less than both of those cartridges.

6.5 Grendel SAAMI MAP (Maximum Average Pressure or working pressure max) is 50,000psi.

5.56 NATO has loads pushing 62,000psi, but most are 55ksi to 60ksi.

.308 Winchester has a SAAMI MAP of 62,000psi

Recoil is slightly more than 5.56 NATO.  It is very controllable and tame.

Not sure where your parts wear claims came from.  First I've heard this one.

A heavier rifle is not needed.  A 6.5 Grendel AR15 with everything identical to a 5.56 rifle except the bolt and barrel will weigh less than a 5.56 rifle.  Reason is bore space removed from same barrel profiles.

Under 200m terminal effectiveness is a different ball game entirely with 6.5 Grendel, as is barrier penetration.  A 14.5" 6.5 Grendel will defeat NATO CRISAT out to 450m with a certain load similar to 855A1, but in 6.5mm.

Advantage of 6.5 Grendel over 5.56 starts from the muzzle.

In fact, a 10.5" 6.5 Grendel has more energy at the muzzle than a 20" 5.56 does pushing even 62gr at 3100fps.

What standardized 7.62 systems are you speaking about?

6.5 Grendel competes against 7.62 NATO, which is the problem in our small arms mix, not 5.56 NATO, if you're talking about military considerations.

I've carried both 5.56 and 7.62 NATO US and coalition weapon systems on multiple deployments over several different continents, and am aware of their capabilities and limitations.

When I saw what even a short 16" barrel Grendel would do in terms of hit potential past 800yds, I felt cheated all those years carrying the M24 SWS.

I could have had fighting capability of the M4 profile, with reach beyond the M24 or M21, with half the recoil of 7.62 M118 or M118LR.

Barrel life is a product of several different variables. Assuming they are all the same, other than chambering and bore diameter between 6.5 Grendel and .308 Win., the Grendel will have a substantially longer barrel life than .308 for a few reasons.

The biggest one is chamber pressure.  .308 Winchester plasma-checks the throat very hard if run at its SAAMI MAP of 62ksi.

Grendel runs at 50ksi max, with a lot of loads below that.

Once you start getting over 58ksi chamber pressure, throat life suffers.

Les Baer had a Grendel AR15 a few years ago that was still shooting 1/2 MOA after over 22,000 rounds.

.308 Winchester has much more barrel life than the 6.5-08 class of cartridges, but they are all pushing about the same case capacity at about the same chamber pressures, through a tighter bore (overbore), whereas the Grendel is not doing any of those things.

Can you list how many there currently are?

What if someone told you there were multiple sources of mags under $15 and $20?

Elanders
CProducts Defense
ASC

Why is that?

The Elanders from AA are definitely quality mags....but the ones they are selling for $12.50 (from ASC) seem to be pretty nice to me.  Haven't fired them yet, but I loaded them up and stripped a few rounds and they seemed to feed smooth.  

They were a great price so I got quite a few to try.

Yes, I can name those three. I own several of each. I want polymer magazines. I shoot mostly steel cased 6.5 Grendel and have found that polymer magazines feed steel cased ammunition a little bit more smoothly.

The last rifle on the right is my 6.5 build.

It's going to take something like a Lancer mag to get polymer/steel hybrid into the AR15 with 6.5 Grendel if you want more than 10rd capacity.

Will be interested to hear your thoughts on it, I'm looking at one of these or a cz527.

A PMAG style mag in Grendel is not possible due to the mag well dimensions. There is not enough room to physically do it. Why LWRCI had to switch to a non-standard lower with a larger mag well to do it in Six8.

I wish someone would do the same and offer an optimized lower and mag in Grendel.

For long range shooting the 6.5mm Grendel is the best caliber out of an AR-15 platform it seems like and the ammo isn't too expensive either. I might pick one up soon. I really liked the short range terminal ballistics of the 6.8mm round though, but damn is the ammo expensive!! I mean for hunting or home defense 6.8mm is better for sure, but I think it's too rich for my blood. I'd probably hardly shoot it, ha.

What's that?

The short range terminal ballistics of 6.8 and 6.5g are nearly identical. Factory Hornady SST from16 inch Barrel:

Ballistics 16 inch Barrel

any word on when the bolts will ship?  I see the thread is closed.

I'd guess the first round has all shipped. Got mine a couple weeks ago. The second round is open.

The barrels where supposed to ship to BFT last week.

Ohh that's nice looking!

guess I am in on the second round.   Got my Barrel and upper, just need a bolt

Would an Alexander Arms hard use bolt be a drop in part for a DSC (Double Star) 6.5 Grendel barrel?

That's beautiful.

If only CZ would make the 527 Left handed in 6.5G

The Savage MSR-10. It's a small frame .308/6.5 Creedmoor. Just a little larger than an AR-15, but you can use 6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmoor, and .260 Remington in it.

Now that is intriguing, I hope the accuracy is good.

I'm excited about the proliferation of the smaller .308 AR patterns, they've always been heavier than necessary.

I've observed fantastic accuracy from the Wolf 6.5 Grendel ammunition. I had 5 shots touching at 50 yards yesterday morning. Like you, the cheap steel cased stuff is what made me finally jump into a 6.5 upper. Likely going the same trigger route you did soon.

It was a very long wait for the steel case 6.5mm Grendel ammo but luckily Wolf persevered and
made it happen and brought it to market at OMG pricing.

Sometimes I sit and wonder

what will do they do next??

i want 6.5A1 goddammit

Double imports of 6.5 I hope.

Is it brass and approx .50CPR?

I actually remember reports last summer of Wolf/Tula looking at importing .50 BMG and 12.7x108. What ever became of that?

Define "same hole."

The three one's right on top of each other, touching.

I said I suck Rickesis, no need to be a dick.

Why even bother with such a difficult-to-get, expensive round designed by a douche nozzle? That and the paucity of ARs available chambered for it. Stick with what is there: 300 BLK, 7.62x39, 5.56x45 and 7.62x51. You can find more AR platforms than anyone could possibly purchase.

At this point in the thread I don't know if this guy is being sarcastic or serious, and I'm almost afraid to ask

lol

Because the 6.5 is the most powerful round you can stuff through the AR magwell in a double stack magazine. It's really not that difficult to understand why people want to bother with it. Combine that with cheap (under 25 cent) steel ammo, a plethora of .264 bullets for reloading, and the fact that I don't really care how douchey Alexander is. As long as he keeps designing cool shit.

Because it is a great round. With wolf ammo now available as cheap plinking ammo it costs the same to shoot as 5.56. 6.5 is a versatile round good at all ranges that will take down a deer and has better barrier pen than 5.56.

Why isn't the 6.5 Grendel more popular than, say, it's nearest competitior, the 6.8 SPC?

Because of the 68SPC's massive head start.

When U.S. Special Forces says they're going to introduce a new cartridge, people sit up and take notice. Wouldn't you be at least a little curious about this cartridge?

Then, when a $950 million company, one of the Big Three in the firearms industry, says it's going to introduce that new cartridge, people sit up and take notice. Don't we all hear about every new cartridge the big guys come out with?

Contrast that with (what was) a one-man shop saying, "Hey, I've got a new cartridge, too!" . . . . . . . Hello? . . . . . . How many times have we heard THAT? Hell, a number of you have probably come up with a great idea for a new cartridge. How'd that work out for ya? Not so easy, was it, to get a major player interested?

Anyway, 68SPC had a massive head start. Explains everything.

Let me address the complaints about Bill Alexander's handling of it. If you know him personally, he's a cool dude, very chill, and — as mentioned — extremely knowledgable. No idea where these "asshole" comments come from. Sour grapes? Because, what, he didn't let every Billy Bob gun plumber turn his cartridge into an ugly mutant with three arms and a mouth where the belly button should be? No, in the absence of a major company standardizing it through SAAMI, he had to protect the design to keep it from being mutated and "improved" into oblivion.

I will grant it's slightly fair to criticize Bill for being a little protectionistic about it, in the sense that he would have been content to be the sole source, and he did require other shops to agree to standardized specs before they could license the trademark "6.5 Grendel." But, hey, there was no other way to do it at the time, so I think that's a small quibble. He had a right to make a return on his investment, on his huge risk in an uphill battle. Truly a David-vs-Goliath struggle.

It's because of him we have Lapua. Because of him we have Wolf. Because of him we have magazines. Because of him we have Hornady. Credit where credit is due. Now Federal and others are taking the ball and running with it.

Anyway, the fact that 6.5 Grendel is doing so well now is a testament to it's actual performance.

6.5 Grendel does everything any other cartridge does in an AR15 package. And it does a lot of things better than most.

I think there was some guy in this thread kept saying, "Yeah, but, what's the truth on the street for the average guy?"

Truth on the street is Wolf 6.5 Grendel steel-case for 23¢ a round. Not every AR15 platform these days can operate that cheaply. That keepin' it real enuff for ya?

blame me for that being in this thread.  And let me caveat (with first post you try to be pithy) with I have no vested interest one way or the other.  I am not a smith and I don't reload I am a casual shooter and retired soldier.

I have never met Bill Alexander.  I have no idea what he is like and I have never heard negative about him from people who actually know him.

A fairer statement is he had that reputation.  He was protectionist, and it appeared he had a cool cartridge that was so cool, he wanted everyone to go through him to get.  As noted, this happened at the same time 6.8 was marketed, and was marketed much better at every level.  In the AR world, proprietary is a very bad word and grendal started out proprietary and it turned a lot of people off which is why its popularity isn't as high as the cartridge warrants (which is the point of this whole thread).  In a firearms world (and AR in particular) when there are so many great choices out there, having a niche product with proprietary (or at least that appearance) accessories, and what appears to be an aloof, if not arrogant, business plan, just turned people off.

Yea but is there .35cpr brass cased ammo?  

I'm Kidding!!  Here's a pic of a Grendel.  Need more pics: Attached File

A fair comment.

I can only say it had to be that way at the time.

I would argue that because of that controversial approach, it actually managed to survive those rough early years in a form recogizable enough to be SAAMI'ed.

And here we are today. Good shootin'!

Remington's support for a new cartridge is almost a death sentence.

Hey, shouldn't you be packing 12" barrels for shipment?









I kid, I kid, kinda sorta

It survived because its a very good design for the AR platform.  6.8 is dying and I'll be curious where 300 bo will be in 5 years.

Did you see the request from SOCOM for a Blackout conversion to their M4s?