Rant OWNS page 2


8.2 as far as rants go!

Wife wanted us to look at the Odyssey and Sienna a few months ago and chose the Odyssey (leather seat version).  She loves it, calls it her second home.    

They are so similar that you really have to choose based on subtle differences.  My wife found moving down the rear seats in the Sienna difficult (requires more arm strength, 50lbs vs 25lbs in the Odyssey IIRC), and that was the thing that pushed us over to the Odyssey.  I'm not too thrilled with the Odyssey's seats for long term driving, but I don't recall if the Sienna's was much better.   As usual, Honda drives better, but the Toyotas drive acceptably IMO now, much better than they did the last time I car shopped (2000 Accord).  Our trim Odyssey also comes with a backup and a right side view camera; don't recall what the Sienna comes with, but those are really really useful.  

FYI, the current generation US model Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander use the same engine (and probably other components) as the van.  AFAIC, the vans are much more useful vehicles, a bit bigger but about the same weight (and thus power-to-weight ratio), but with much more space for kids, dogs, luggage, etc..  See this comparison..  A buddy of mine has a (2013 IIRC) suburban.  That's a much, much bigger vehicle, and he claims it's a better people-hauler (usually he has to haul himself, the Mrs. 4 kids and his mum).  But we call it the Koenigstiger for a reason - the thing's massive and I don't see how he does his drives around NJ and Manhattan in the thing.  (the Odyssey is in comparison a Panther).      

I've had no problems with my  Accord prior to 200k miles.  Do the recommended service.  If you get the Hondacare extended warranty (I did because of all the electronic gizmos), get it from Hyannis Honda online for $1300 (or make the dealer match it), keep all your records (maybe do oil changes yourself, but do major service professionally.   They can't legally deny you warranty service if you go elsewhere).   Maybe 5-10k miles before the warranty expires, bring it to a Honda dealer to have it looked over, and the dealer ought to be scrupulous (since American Honda's paying for any problems).   One thing: do all the automatic transmission fluid checks and fill ups yourself, using genuine Honda AT fluid and make sure if you need your fluid changed/flushed that whoever does it uses genuine Honda AT fluid.   My AT had problems circa 190k miles, and when I (probably foolishly) got it rebuilt the (non-Honda) transmission folks told me that Honda transmissions can be very problematic, but if they use the OEM fluid the chances are much lower.  YMMV on that.

In Utah we call them mav's.Morman assault vehicles

I have a 2008 Odyseey with about 181k on it right now.  Let me list the repairs.

GPS module died 3 times.  One time is showed me driving through a lake, that was amusing.  Replaced under warranty.
Backup camera died.  Warranty.
One of the spark plugs disintegrated in the head due to bad programming on the variable displacement.  Rebuilt under recall, but I pad for the other 3 cylinders $200
DVD player crapped out around 150k.  Replaced myself with refurbished. $300.
Oil sensor crapped out.  $300.
Upper coolant sensor crapped out.  Replaced myself for $20.

They've told me the control arms bushing are questionable, but I've ignored it.  They aren't serviceable so that's a $1200 job.

Currently another one of the coolant sensors is crapped out + an 02 sensor is dead.  I'm just driving with the check engine light on, don't care.  

Last time I was at the dealer they told me the timing belt tensioner was leaking.  Which is funny because I had it replaced at 105k with the timing belt service.   Either they lied or it only last 76k miles.

I've owned ford and nissan before this to similar mileages.  Both were more reliable, the ford being the best. I have a friend with a 2007 odyssey.  they had a motor mount crap out before 100k, that wasn't cheap.  If you buy an Odyssey get the extended warranty if you get all the electronics, they will crap out.

My sister has a Town and Country and she likes it.  I'd recommend the Sienna because my fiancée has a Prius and it's got 101k with only 2 major repairs.  I'm curious to see how the Chrysler lasts as I understand they love to eat transmissions.

I saw one of these with the head and taillights tinted. My jaw dropped

The J series (what's in the odyssey) are also chain driven.

I'd say Honda.

Reliability wise, you'll want a Honda or Toyota, but the Sienna I rented a year or so back handled like a bus. As in, my Chevy 2500 work truck handled better.

The best quote I ever read about minivans





 

Thank you for all of the information. When we decide on which one to get I will post a review for the fun of it. It will most likely be Spring / Summer of 2016.

I think once more of the kids come along and are slightly old enough I will have to practice this with them! LOL

The answer is never, ever a mini van. No matter what the question.

Either a Honda Odyssey or a Toyota Sienna.

This.





I stole a 2012 T&C for almost 10 under MSRP. Pentastar gets 28+ MPG loaded down HWY, Seats 7 comfortably, lots of features, priced right, and I got a Chrysler Factory lifetime bumper to bumper warranty. $1800.





Currently at 70k, havent had one single issue. Kids pile in, put on their IR headphones, watch one of two different movies (at the same time!) on two different screens and ride easy. My 65k OEM Michelin tires delivered with tread leftover. Rides good, handles great, very quiet.
 

First of all, don't ever put anything but Honda transmission fluid in a Honda transmission... What year Oddy? The worst years were around 2000-2003.  I have an '02 Acura TL with a warranty replacement tranny because the first went @ around 40K.  Now have over 200K on the car, hopefully the post-2005 replacement holds up.  We have an '06 Oddy Touring that just turned over 100K and runs like new.  From what I've read 2006+ have no more tranny issues that other manufacturers.  But before that it's a crap shoot (not if, but when).

The Chrysler has stow and go.



Pull a lever, flip the seat under the floor- and yes it holds sheets.





The most use we get is folding them down and making a bed back there for the drive in.
What a PITA taking seats in and out must be. I sure hope you have someplace to put them where they dont get fucked up. Wow.





 

Which neither of those are.

       







That must explain the stat a couple years ago- More Dodge Caravans/Town & Country were sold than all the other mini vans put together.
Its the F150 of minivans. I know the import lovers hate it, but its true.



 

Not sure where you heard that but it's definitely not true.  I just changed out the timing belt in my TL's J32A2 last weekend.  Unless something changed recently, as far as I know all J series have a timing belt.  (I've also paid to get it changed in my Pilot, had it done on the used Odyssey we picked up before we bought it, and my friend just finished doing an MDX by himself). Pilot/Oddy/MDX were all J35 variants.

Don't let others deter you. If you have small kids that need car seats, a mini van is the most versatile family mover IMO, in terms of passenger accessibility, comfort, and gas mileage. We bought a used Honda Odyssey this past summer after having two sadans, quad cab truck, small suv and two large suvs. I tried for years to get wife to get one but up to this year, she was opposed.

Another good line, from the same source as the Huey:





 

Damn, those Italians vans sell quite well.

And the resale value value goes to hell the moment you sign the title.

To give you an idea of how terrible the Mopar minivan resale value is, the Kia Sedona is in third place behind the Odyssey and Sienna.

And they're heavily reliant on fleet sales and incentives to achieve that.

Regardless of industry, the volume leader is pretty much never the best quality product.

Among other issues.   One we had 10years ago ate a head gasket.   The one the wife got 3 years ago, a used 2006 with the 3.8L eats a quart of $5 oil every 1000mi.

I jumped on the net a few days ago to find that a large % of the 06-10 V6 chrysler motors use A LOT OF OIL, and they think its just f&^%ing fine.  MANY customers under warranty were super pissed off when they got the spec sheet that says 1qt/1000mi is FINE.  BS.  Sad part, people were running the dam engines til they were DRY. geez.

Apparently changing the valve seals will fix it for a while.  I have to do this over Christmas otherwise I'll be buying another cat convertor, I am sure that what fubared the first one.
Looking at the replacement seals, I can see why, they are very poorly designed from looking at the photos compared to other vendors.

T&C == moneypit.

Sidedoor wont stay open(limit switch causes it to close by itself), windows switches need replacing (maybe its the motors haven't checked yet).  
I keep telling her to trade it in on a better car.

Do you give credit to the Italians or the Canadians? The Caravan / T&C is built in Ontario, Canada.

(The Sienna is built in Indiana, and the Odyssey is built in Alabama.)

Don't waste your time or money on Mazda.  Hard to get parts for a reasonable price, and they take ford engineering to the next level.  Need I say more?  Dodge/Chrysler, same thing, just one is fancier than the other.  They make good minivans, but their quality can be lacking at times, especially in the longevity dept.  Trannies used to be their main weak point, but not sure anymore.  Hondas are usually decent, but they are not the Honda of 25 years ago.  They got ate up over trans problems on the platform, as well as oil leaks that required the use of JB Weld to fix(no joke).  Toyotas are the same thing, decent but they aren't the same as years ago.  You pay a premium for the name.  Avoid Nissan, even Asian shops hate working on them.  Buy a Ford before going that route.
eta: Not a fan of Kia either.  Not a very durable brand, still and gets expensive to fix.  
Keep in mind, in the last couple of model years, a lot of new technology has been introduced.  Gas Direct Injection, and a slew of new convenience/safety features.  With GDI, you get better fuel mileage and power, but requires more attention to care.  You absolutely have to use the right oil for them, as spec'd by the maker, or you can have major engine failures.  Cheapo oil can result in coking up of the engine, stuck valves, and even catastrophic superknock, that likely is tied to all the ecoboost engine failures.  You have to have the intake cleaned every 15k to keep them running at peak performance, or you'll start having issues.

Well I didn't get a lifetime warranty so I could resell it LOL.


200,000+ miles here I come

Only 197,000 miles left to go

I really like my T&C.  Actually convinced the wife it would be better to live with than an SUV.  Of course I was right.

My favorite part it the storage under the second row floors.  I can put all my range stuff in there and no one looking in would have a clue.

Front wheel drive,  enclosed cargo area,  standard ground clearance.  Take mine hunting all the time.  For the dog crate,  guns, gear, and 4 adults.

10 sheets of drywall,  does that count?

Got rid of my caravan at 197k miles, now on a town and country.  It has 77k miles, no issues other than sway bar bushings that needed to be replaced.

Nope, giving credit to the Italians.  That's who owns the company and there are those here who don't care if a car or truck is made here or not, it's still a JAP car.

Using that criteria, these are Italian vans.

Get a real van

had a 2001 T&C ..made it 14 years and  225k before the tranny crapped out...took it cross country many times and it did fine..main complaints were the AC system was a little buggy and the driver's window motor died several times ..when I say "buggy" I mean things I had to fix over and over again.


2010 I bought my wife a 2008 T&C with 7k miles on it for 14k..Front brakes crapped out at 25k but Chrysler paid on that IIRC (there was a known issue) ..We kept that one until 93k and some asshole backed into it hard enough to total it . aside from the brakes it did fine. A similar year/mileage toyota or honda would have cost double what I paid


bought my wife another 2008 T&C after that .(touring version) ..she seems to like it ok. For all the cokes and chicken nuggets that my 3 kids would spill in it I don't see any reason to get anything fancier  

If you do alot of in town driving, the Honda. If you do alot of highways, interstates, and long drives, Toyota. Honda has more of a car like feel, Toyota has a softer ride. Honda will get better gas mileage in town and on the highway.

Kinda in the same boat as the OP, but I've been giving strong consideration to the Ford Transit Connect wagon.

We just did 2000 miles last week in a Toyota Siena and it was way better than in an suv. And to those that say just get a tahoe they are small than a mini van interior size and almost twice as much. The suburban twice as much as the top of the line vans, f that.

FWIW, the Toyota sienna can carry 4x8 plywood if you remove the second and third row seats.  It has interior space on par with a suburban.

My wife hated the idea of a minivan.  Now she loves her sienna.  Rides great, hauls plenty of stuff, seats eight, and it's very easy to load small children in it.  Gets a solid 26 mpg on the highway too.

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Just needs that chrome blacked out.


And maybe a couple of black aerials on the back and you should be good to go.

2 big man recliners, a coffee table, and a dog stroller in the back of Honda and we left the back seats in. (3rd row folded down flat)

Mine hated the idea too until she got use to the automatic doors and power hatch. We got 20-21 around town and over 30 on the highway.

No it really isn't, three kids will fit in a sedan even with carseats/boosters. We have been doing it for awhile.

The fourth is on the way, so I am also looking for a van as there is no way four will fit in a sedan but three certainly will.

Fair but to say it can do everything a truck can do is not a good comparison because there is plenty of people that do use the capabilities of a 4wd or truck.

Actually the sienna has 150 cubic feet of space to the back of the front seats and the suburban only has 121.


 

Eta: spelling

The answer you seek is a Honda Pilot.  Tons of room, reliable and a nice vehicle to drive.  3 rows.  



The Honda Odyssey does come with a built in vacuum.  That would be pretty kickass.