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Posted: 8/2/2015 12:12:45 AM EDT
[#1]
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You mean that sometimes people lie about their interactions with police? Impossible, I say! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Party was over. I don't like talking to cops. I saw a hot girl outside. Lots of reasons to leave. Not seeing a reason to stay. What difference does it make? "The incident began after police were called to the scene for a noise violation. The victim, 18-year-old Chris Cuneo, was not responsible for the noise and was attempting to walk away from the scene. However, officers Creedon and Svenson, of the West Deptford police department, were having none of that. The Free Thought Project spoke to Cuneo and he explained what happened. It was a party. Everybody started leaving the party and my friend Sebastian told me to stay behind and talk to the police with him. I said, “no problem buddy.” When I open the door, the police walked in they noticed all the open containers and started asking us for ID and our names. I said since we’re not being detained I don’t have to answer any questions. He said, “you do have to give him your name. Give him your name right now.” I said, “why?” He said because it’s an obstruction of the investigation." http://thefreethoughtproject.com/disturbing-video-shows-nj-cops-tear-open-teens-face-giving/#GQu14mlFSejMsABg.16 People either tend to leave the party or go inside when the cops show up. Being that he is 18, hmmm. So that part I underlined - what's the basis for demanding their names, again? Well since we are only going by the young man's story, it seems that a lot of pertinent details could be missing. "On 7.18.2015, Christopher J. Cuneo, 18, of Sewell, NJ was arrested on Apple Lane for obstructing the administration of law, resisting arrest, and underage possession of alcohol. A juvenile was also charged with hindering apprehension and offering alcohol to minors. Both were issued summonses and released pending further court action."  http://http://patch.com/new-jersey/westdeptford/west-deptford-police-crime-log-july-18-23-2015
You mean that sometimes people lie about their interactions with police? Impossible, I say! Not to mention he says he was punched 3 times in the face and went unconscious to awakening and being treated with stitches. Did the cops pin a summons on his shirt for when he woke up? That's also a strange wound for being punched, seen plenty of split lips but no injuries like that. Was one of the cops wearing a big ass diamond ring? |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:41:11 AM EDT
[#2]
Here's the kid in his own words pretty much starts his story with "so basically I was at a party and the cops showed up and everybody ran" He tells the rest of his "story" here/ Video seems to skip or gasp, is edited.
Here's what copblock got from talking to the police department:
Interesting that the officer assigned to the internal affairs investigation (who started the investigation based on the victim's sisters complaint made the previous day) says to the sister of the victim, pastor and the ACLU/cop block guy "I spoke to your brother, not willing to come in and give any statements right now and I left a number with the other subject. Right now my investigation is at a halt because the two people that were present do not want to give me a statement. Kind of difficult to do an investigation without their account". |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:46:59 AM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 8/2/2015 8:36:56 AM EDT
[#4]
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Meh. Probably better to just drive by the address at the speed limit with your windows up, fail to hear anything, and make it unfounded. Bingo. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 8:37:31 AM EDT
[#5]
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He's just a Yankee version of me.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Meh. Probably better to just drive by the address at the speed limit with your windows up, fail to hear anything, and make it unfounded. You're getting to about the Extorris level of cynical.
He's just a Yankee version of me. I think you mean a retired version of you. 
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Posted: 8/2/2015 8:52:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Obstruction for not giving your name?
 Okay15 minute video, someone else can watch that and post what happened |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 8:56:22 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's the kid in his own words pretty much starts his story with "so basically I was at a party and the cops showed up and everybody ran" He tells the rest of his "story" here/ Video seems to skip or gasp, is edited. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPw6hETE2pk Here's what copblock got from talking to the police department: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhWY_o32sTQInteresting that the officer assigned to the internal affairs investigation (who started the investigation based on the victim's sisters complaint made the previous day) says to the sister of the victim, pastor and the ACLU/cop block guy "I spoke to your brother, not willing to come in and give any statements right now and I left a number with the other subject. Right now my investigation is at a halt because the two people that were present do not want to give me a statement. Kind of difficult to do an investigation without their account". |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 8:58:57 AM EDT
[#8]
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So you learned to be all house broken like or the cops will beat you? Much Jeffersonian. Very Democracy. Wow. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The kid had a learning experience. Mine was mouthing off to a SDPD officer. I received a lesson on the deployment of a slap Jack. I also learned that when an officer asks you your name you tell him right away and you refer to him as sir. So you learned to be all house broken like or the cops will beat you? Much Jeffersonian. Very Democracy. Wow. No, I learned to pick my battles and think my way through a situation. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 8:59:31 AM EDT
[#9]
I've seen people arrested for a noise violation because they opened door. Not their party, not their apartment,they have no control over hat is going on, they were just stupid enough to open the door to the cops
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Posted: 8/2/2015 10:48:04 AM EDT
[#10]
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Well since we are only going by the young man's story, it seems that a lot of pertinent details could be missing. "On 7.18.2015, Christopher J. Cuneo, 18, of Sewell, NJ was arrested on Apple Lane for obstructing the administration of law, resisting arrest, and underage possession of alcohol. A juvenile was also charged with hindering apprehension and offering alcohol to minors. Both were issued summonses and released pending further court action." http://http://patch.com/new-jersey/westdeptford/west-deptford-police-crime-log-july-18-23-2015
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Party was over. I don't like talking to cops. I saw a hot girl outside. Lots of reasons to leave. Not seeing a reason to stay. What difference does it make? "The incident began after police were called to the scene for a noise violation. The victim, 18-year-old Chris Cuneo, was not responsible for the noise and was attempting to walk away from the scene. However, officers Creedon and Svenson, of the West Deptford police department, were having none of that. The Free Thought Project spoke to Cuneo and he explained what happened. It was a party. Everybody started leaving the party and my friend Sebastian told me to stay behind and talk to the police with him. I said, “no problem buddy.” When I open the door, the police walked in they noticed all the open containers and started asking us for ID and our names. I said since we’re not being detained I don’t have to answer any questions. He said, “you do have to give him your name. Give him your name right now.” I said, “why?” He said because it’s an obstruction of the investigation." http://thefreethoughtproject.com/disturbing-video-shows-nj-cops-tear-open-teens-face-giving/#GQu14mlFSejMsABg.16 People either tend to leave the party or go inside when the cops show up. Being that he is 18, hmmm. So that part I underlined - what's the basis for demanding their names, again? Well since we are only going by the young man's story, it seems that a lot of pertinent details could be missing. "On 7.18.2015, Christopher J. Cuneo, 18, of Sewell, NJ was arrested on Apple Lane for obstructing the administration of law, resisting arrest, and underage possession of alcohol. A juvenile was also charged with hindering apprehension and offering alcohol to minors. Both were issued summonses and released pending further court action." http://http://patch.com/new-jersey/westdeptford/west-deptford-police-crime-log-july-18-23-2015
So is there a stop and identify law there or not? We don't need stories to determine that. It either exists or it doesn't. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 11:11:11 AM EDT
[#11]
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So any time three cops are asking me questions then I'm being detained? Unless there's a particular way that I'm expected to know the reason behind the officers' arrival on the scene. What's amazing still is that it's so obvious but you are completely unable to explain your rational on why without resorting to childish insults. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It doesn't require any, kinda the point. The next time 3 cops are questioning you at a scene they were called to, by all means leave in the middle of it because they did not spell out to you that you were being detained. Clearly, that is a freebie on a technicality. This reminds me of the idiot warnings on products.  So any time three cops are asking me questions then I'm being detained? Unless there's a particular way that I'm expected to know the reason behind the officers' arrival on the scene. What's amazing still is that it's so obvious but you are completely unable to explain your rational on why without resorting to childish insults. What's amazing is your insistence on being so argumentative in every LE thread to the point of absurdity as in this case. Do you want me to explain to you why it is Sunday? |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 1:52:15 PM EDT
[#12]
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Kid may have lawyered up for a civil suit Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Here's the kid in his own words pretty much starts his story with "so basically I was at a party and the cops showed up and everybody ran" He tells the rest of his "story" here/ Video seems to skip or gasp, is edited. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPw6hETE2pk
Here's what copblock got from talking to the police department: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhWY_o32sTQ
Interesting that the officer assigned to the internal affairs investigation (who started the investigation based on the victim's sisters complaint made the previous day) says to the sister of the victim, pastor and the ACLU/cop block guy "I spoke to your brother, not willing to come in and give any statements right now and I left a number with the other subject. Right now my investigation is at a halt because the two people that were present do not want to give me a statement. Kind of difficult to do an investigation without their account". Probably why he deleted posts from his face book. Wonder if his attorney has also asked Bethlehem Copblock to take down his interview? |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 2:08:40 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably why he deleted posts from his face book. Wonder if his attorney has also asked Bethlehem Copblock to take down his interview? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Here's the kid in his own words pretty much starts his story with "so basically I was at a party and the cops showed up and everybody ran" He tells the rest of his "story" here/ Video seems to skip or gasp, is edited. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPw6hETE2pk Here's what copblock got from talking to the police department: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhWY_o32sTQInteresting that the officer assigned to the internal affairs investigation (who started the investigation based on the victim's sisters complaint made the previous day) says to the sister of the victim, pastor and the ACLU/cop block guy "I spoke to your brother, not willing to come in and give any statements right now and I left a number with the other subject. Right now my investigation is at a halt because the two people that were present do not want to give me a statement. Kind of difficult to do an investigation without their account". Probably why he deleted posts from his face book. Wonder if his attorney has also asked Bethlehem Copblock to take down his interview? |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 2:14:00 PM EDT
[#14]
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What's amazing is your insistence on being so argumentative in every LE thread to the point of absurdity as in this case. Do you want me to explain to you why it is Sunday? Normally I ignore SmilingBandit but you do seem to have a real problem with answering his question. Cops can go ask people questions without any cause. They cannot detain people without any cause, the circumstances are rather more specific. If a cop is canvassing the neighbourhood for witnesses (for example) then he is investigating a crime but he's not detaining every person he speaks to, is he? How do you tell if you're being questioned (in which case you have no requirement to assist in any way or to remain) or detained (in which case you have no requirement to assist in any way but must remain)? I'm seriously asking - it's troubling that there does not appear to be any clear answer. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 3:01:09 PM EDT
[#15]
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You can't refuse to tell the cops who you are. You may not need actual identification papers, but you still have to tell your name. Can't cops hold you until you can be identified? A stubborn guy who refuses to give his name could be detained for a very long time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I guess he should have given them his name. You can't refuse to tell the cops who you are. You may not need actual identification papers, but you still have to tell your name. Can't cops hold you until you can be identified? A stubborn guy who refuses to give his name could be detained for a very long time. Outside a traffic stop, they have to have, at a bare minimum, RS that you are involved in a crime before you can be required to identify yourself. They are not entitled to ID unoffending citizens. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 3:04:46 PM EDT
[#16]
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As per the article, they were trying to figure out who was on the lease for the purpose of the investigation on who to charge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If he was punched for failing to ID you OK with it? I'm still trying to establish whether he had a legal obligation to identify himself at all. Whether the punch was excessive is a separate issue. As per the article, they were trying to figure out who was on the lease for the purpose of the investigation on who to charge. If he's the lessee, he has the right to silence. If he's not the lessee, he doesn't have to talk unless subpoenaed. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 3:27:14 PM EDT
[#17]
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If he's the lessee, he has the right to silence. If he's not the lessee, he doesn't have to talk unless subpoenaed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If he was punched for failing to ID you OK with it? I'm still trying to establish whether he had a legal obligation to identify himself at all. Whether the punch was excessive is a separate issue. As per the article, they were trying to figure out who was on the lease for the purpose of the investigation on who to charge. If he's the lessee, he has the right to silence. If he's not the lessee, he doesn't have to talk unless subpoenaed. Sounds like he was charged with possession. Need to provide information then. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 3:54:25 PM EDT
[#18]
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Sounds like he was charged with possession. Need to provide information then. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If he was punched for failing to ID you OK with it? I'm still trying to establish whether he had a legal obligation to identify himself at all. Whether the punch was excessive is a separate issue. As per the article, they were trying to figure out who was on the lease for the purpose of the investigation on who to charge. If he's the lessee, he has the right to silence. If he's not the lessee, he doesn't have to talk unless subpoenaed. Sounds like he was charged with possession. Need to provide information then. Agree, sounds like he and his friends also contributed to establishing some RS for the officers when they arrived. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 5:21:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like he was charged with possession. Need to provide information then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If he was punched for failing to ID you OK with it? I'm still trying to establish whether he had a legal obligation to identify himself at all. Whether the punch was excessive is a separate issue. As per the article, they were trying to figure out who was on the lease for the purpose of the investigation on who to charge. If he's the lessee, he has the right to silence. If he's not the lessee, he doesn't have to talk unless subpoenaed. Sounds like he was charged with possession. Need to provide information then. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 5:24:14 PM EDT
[#20]
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OK but you cannot beat it out of him I don't believe he was beaten. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 5:26:36 PM EDT
[#21]
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I kind of suspect talking to cop lock is as productive as yelling at the rabbits that used to gnaw on my garage door The hell kind of rabbits live in NYS?
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Posted: 8/2/2015 6:11:10 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't believe he was beaten. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: OK but you cannot beat it out of him I don't believe he was beaten. Of course all you can do turn away or try and slow it down and in some cases stop it. The best way I always thought was to whisper in his ear, "hey, you're gonna get a rip or fired back off" Nowadays with body cams and dash cams (limited) the practices of old will fade away to a min. One of the most heavy handed officers I even knew was a female, she had a bad temper and never missed an chance to kick some dirt bag in the nuts, even if he wasn't dirt bagging at the time. She almost split some guys skull (handcuffed) for spitting in her face, if she had a little more upper body strength the guy would have died, all in the space of 5 or 6 seconds with a baton |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 6:14:28 PM EDT
[#23]
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If you have been on the job say over 5 years I bet you can't count on all your fingers how many perps got tuned up, and I don't mean you have fingers left over, I mean you run out of fingers. Of course all you can do turn away or try and slow it down and in some cases stop it. The best way I always thought was to whisper in his ear, "hey, you're gonna get a rip or fired back off" Nowadays with body cams and dash cams (limited) the practices of old will fade away to a min. One of the most heavy handed officers I even knew was a female, she had a bad temper and never missed an chance to kick some dirt bag in the nuts, even if he wasn't dirt bagging at the time. She almost split some guys skull (handcuffed) for spitting in her face, if she had a little more upper body strength the guy would have died, all in the space of 5 or 6 seconds with a baton Quote HistoryQuoted:
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OK but you cannot beat it out of him I don't believe he was beaten. Of course all you can do turn away or try and slow it down and in some cases stop it. The best way I always thought was to whisper in his ear, "hey, you're gonna get a rip or fired back off" Nowadays with body cams and dash cams (limited) the practices of old will fade away to a min. One of the most heavy handed officers I even knew was a female, she had a bad temper and never missed an chance to kick some dirt bag in the nuts, even if he wasn't dirt bagging at the time. She almost split some guys skull (handcuffed) for spitting in her face, if she had a little more upper body strength the guy would have died, all in the space of 5 or 6 seconds with a baton I have used force, but never "tuned up". So, no. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 6:29:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have used force, but never "tuned up". So, no. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OK but you cannot beat it out of him I don't believe he was beaten. Of course all you can do turn away or try and slow it down and in some cases stop it. The best way I always thought was to whisper in his ear, "hey, you're gonna get a rip or fired back off" Nowadays with body cams and dash cams (limited) the practices of old will fade away to a min. One of the most heavy handed officers I even knew was a female, she had a bad temper and never missed an chance to kick some dirt bag in the nuts, even if he wasn't dirt bagging at the time. She almost split some guys skull (handcuffed) for spitting in her face, if she had a little more upper body strength the guy would have died, all in the space of 5 or 6 seconds with a baton I have used force, but never "tuned up". So, no. I meant how many guys have you seen tune someone up? I have a relative who just retired form NYPD, he told me stories that would scare the shit out of you if you were in the damned building while it went on. Smart violent cops go a long time with out getting caught. The best (avoid getting in trouble) "Watch your head sir" as he puts you in the back seat (cuffed) and your head bangs into the roof of the car You ever see another officer tap the heel of someone cuffed and their feet cross they fall on their face Very hard to prove intentional right? Happens all the time |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 6:50:50 PM EDT
[#25]
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Cop hitting a kid for not giving his name? And you all are ok with this? Read the FUCKING CONSTITUTION!!! I don't see anything my copy that says you can't smack a smart-ass for being a smart-ass. Not good policy and might cost some money, but not sure it's necessarily unconstitutional. |
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Posted: 8/2/2015 6:51:16 PM EDT
[#26]
OK but you cannot beat it out of him His injuries are odd for being the result of being punched. |
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