Our A/C unit in the basement is dead (coolant leak, oil in the system).  Our main floor A/C just got a coolant charge, but is 11 years old and the original (contractor grade) unit.  Typical lifespan for them is 10-12 years.

The basement A/C needs about 1.5 tons and is currently a 2.0 ton unit, while the main floor is 2.5 tons.


So, the heat & air engineer comes out today and we talk about just replacing the basement, replacing both, or combining into a single dual-zone unit.  We also discussed removing some "kinks" in the ducting from the original install and possibly moving a return vent and/or making another bigger to increase return CFM on the main floor.  We're looking at stuff in the basement where the furnaces are and throws out a $3200 ballpark number - which I think is the combined unit, and not as bad as I was worrying.


Well, we sit down upstairs and start going over the details of what he's going to quote and $3200 is for the 1.5 ton basement unit only - coils and compressor, re-using old furnace.

I'm like

"So, what kind of price range are we talking for the dual zone?  Say, the 17 seer 2-stage?"  He covers his face and says he hates roughing numbers without actually calculating the work, but "well, it should be less than $10,000."

Now I'm all


FFS, my first house was a 650 sq. ft. condo I bought for $40k, and he's talking almost $10k for an A/C unit.  

Am I crazy to think I could get a significantly better price elsewhere?
Am I crazy to seriously consider spending $10k instead of ~$7-8k for two new, separate units?  (Our upstairs was $4240 in 2011 for a new 3.0 ton unit plus some additional ducting.)

Ya I think my new homes 5ton duel zoned ac\heat was a bit more than that :(

all that SEER doesn't come cheap.

All Hail Obama.

TIL that a 2 ton AC unit is not an AC unit that weights as much as a car. What a dumb way to measure cooling power

FML


When we got our 16 SEER upstairs unit, I thought we went middle of the road.  Wondering if we should consider 14 or 16 SEER single stage combined unit.

Bah.


Research the distributor cost of the unit, then ask why he thinks two guys working for one day are worth $3k each.

I had my entire system replaced last week. I went with a Trane 16 seer 3.5 ton outside unit and a variable speed two stage with Dehumidification  Trane 80% 90k BTU furnace and all new connections.....the whole shebang. It cost me $6200. Just ask what the CASH price is if you have it.

A straight replacement with furnaces should be in the $5k per unit range. The smaller will be a little less and the bigger one will be a little more. I know it sucks to pay that much but that is what it will cost.

Do not combine the units. That is a bad idea.   Even a "contractor grade" unit  should last around 15- 20 years with proper maintaince. Cost on the equipment (furnace, indoor coil, and outdoor unit) for both systems  is about $4500-5000. Install should be about $2500.  Yes, you can do better

my 1100sq ft rental heat pump/AC only cost $4900 2 yrs ago to replace.



We replaced it with a trane, $10k is way to much.



Free

This.  Pay now, or pay every month.z

14 seer is the minimum system you can install in Georgia. Find a hvac guy to do it on the side for cash. It will be exponentially cheaper

Just got the Lennox model 014 to replace my old floor heater (installed in 1953). I never had a heater/air conditioner before. This system cost $16k.

Don't go with a big name co., they carry a bigger price from overhead advertising etc. I needed everything. I had window units. I got 5 or 6 quotes, and still dickered a bit trying to get better equipment.

The big co. Quoted 10k for duct work and a single stage 2 ton Lennox heat pump. 16 seer I think


The co. I went with gave me a 2 stage 17 seer trane heat pump with a variable speed air handler. Those coupled make 18 seer. All duct work -$6800.

That would have been around $15,000 with the other co.


The owner told me the only difference in price was crossing the state line, closer to the city. My setup would have been 12k from him in Charlotte. And the only difference was the extra money goes into his back pocket.

I must have did well in my research and negotiation, after his crew was done, he said he may clear $400 off me after all is said and done.  That's much better then
4-5k in profit IN ONE DAY.

You're talking about 2 new condensors and coils, right? New t-stats? And you said something about reworking some ducting and returns.  $10k sounds pretty reasonable for that. For a single system? Nope......

Man, around here I'm not sure you can even get 80% units anymore. Most new units are condensing 90% furnaces, 14 SEER or better.

There is a huge markup in HVAC. Think about it they can charge pretty much what they think they can get from you. You don't want to live in a house that's 90 degrees in the summer time do you?

Bottom line is there is room to negotiate with most HVAC contractors. You need to make sure they do the proper load calculations and that they just don't estimate it off the square footage of the space.

The HVAC units themselves are insanely expensive for what they are. It's a compressor with copper tubing and a fan motor. You can buy a new car for what some of these systems cost.

It's more the install than the equipment. Make sure he really knows what he's doing. Friends had horror story with the meth head a local "better priced" company sent out.

Yeh, I kind of like the idea of still having AC in part of the home, if something breaks.

Also, a pair of individual units are likely to be less complicated than a single "dual zone" unit - and less complicated generally means (1.) more reliable, (2.) easier to trouble-shoot, and (3.) cheaper, more readily-available repair parts.

In my book, reliability is a lot more important than SEER.

Any savings in energy costs could easily be negated by just one repair bill.

according to Angie's list

Go pay 300 for a home warranty for a year get new ac

That's what I found out. It's almost like a racket. Try finding the dealer cost on a unit. You won't find it unless your a dealer or installer. The prices vary by region as well. Over at the hvac forum I looked at while researching, posting quote numbers was strictly forbidden.

They do pretty much charge what they can get out of you. Depending on your location and other factors, prices can literally double. For the same exact job and equipment.

I had a question for my installer the other day, and they said you wouldn't beleive how bad a/c companies gouge prices during a heat wave like we're having in the south right now.

My Trane 16 SEER cost $12,000.


Worth every penny. Replaced a POS Goodman system that wasn't worth the pot-metal it was made of.

Get quotes from other AC techs.  Try to find a qualified independent AC tech if that guy wasn't.  They'll cost a lot less considering they have lower overhead (i.e. you are not paying the office ladies salary and also making sure the owner gets his money).

Do your homework, then take installation bids.



Last year, I replaced my entire 20 year old unit with a 17 Seer split system that has a 2 stage compressor and variable speed fan - and paid a tech to install the equipment and top off the refrigerant. Labor ran me $600.00 and the total including parts and labor was about 3 grand.



The stuff is fairly 'plug-n-play' for somebody who knows the ropes.



https://www.acwholesalers.com/Air-Conditioners/2800024.acp

The guy who installed mine was working for a contractor and also working for his own start-up company on the weekends. He was indeed licensed, bonded and insured. Since then, he has gone out on his own full time.



I agree that you wouldn't want to hire Manuel and Paco off the Home Depot parking lot for a central air install.

My house is 650 sq ft. I use 2 - 5000 BTU window units. One in the bedroom, one in the living room. That's where I spend 99% of my time, when I'm home. Replacing them costs about $100/ea. I generally get about 15 years or so from a window AC.



I bought a 5000 BTU window AC used in 1976. I used it for about 15 years, then bought a much more efficient one. It wasn't rated for EER, but it's easy to calculate. It had a 5.6 EER. I gave it to a coworker when I got the new one, with a 9.0 EER.



She is still using it. It's over 40 years old. It was made in the USA by Frigidaire. Nobody makes AC units like that, anymore.

This, been in mechanical contracting for 30yrs. You definitely can do better.

I just had everything replaced except the ducts last October.  
$7200
Lennox XC13-042 3.5 Ton




Lennox EL 180 Furnace




That's with zoning and a 5 year Labor warranties
They did have to run a new copper line and lay the unit on the side cause the attic was not tall enough.

Yep......The price of luxury is getting expensive.

Where in GA are you located?  I'm in Gwinnett, and just had my 2.5ton A/C and furnace 13 SEER Rheem units replaced for 2950 out the door.  You can still install 13 SEER units, it's just that the minimum new manufactured units are 14 SEER, so if you're getting a 13 SEER unit installed it's just been sitting on the shelf for a few months.  I believe either at the end of this year, or the end of next year the minimum manufactured SEER rating goes up to 15.  Yay EPA!!!!!!!

You'll know how much wiggle room a contractor has when they ask to be paid for workeven though you never gave them a notice to proceed, never got a written estimate from them, but they showed up at your cabin and did the install anyways.  

We just replaced the entire HVAC in our family lake home.  old furnace was in a crawl space under the main floor.  was a pain in the butt to maintain; and the 1 ton condensor was a little too undersized.
Background, I work for a commercial HVAC equipment and controls company; so I know my way around HVAC systems, and have access to wholesale pricing for dozens of brands of equipment that we rep.

I got a quote to put in a new downflow furnace, A frame coil, line set, condensing unit, 2 new return ducts cut in up in the loft, cutting and patching of walls/floor, and sealing of all existing joints in the ductwork.  quotes ranged from the first guy saying $13K but never giving us a written estimate, to my buddy giving me a written breakdown for $7800.  Gave my buddy notice to proceed but when he arrived one afternoon, the other guy was already there, and was nearly done installing a new system .  My buddy called my stepdad, wondering what was going on, and stepdad blew a gasket; shitstorm ensues.  I get called by my mom and stepdad to go look over the newly installed system, and was told to "pick it apart."

I made a small punchlist, but overall the equipment they selected and the workmanship was all quality; I asked them for a breakout and they only had 15% markup on the equipment vs. what I could order it for through work.  The owner was extremely apologetic about the whole ordeal; he misread the email sent to him by the estimator, and told his foreman to go ahead and start the job.  After having them come back and do the punch list, Long story short, he knew $13k wasn't going to happen.  I told him straight up he could bill for the $7800 plus a few extras we had added, plus pay my buddy for his two trips to the cabin for measuring, or he could walk away leaving the equipment and not get a dime.  After having him upgrade the thermostat to a color touch screen with wireless, and add a few provisions allowing me to add DDC controls and alarms easier, we settled at $8,200 and he now buys all his filters through the company I work for.  

True enough. I just spent $15.6K total on two 16 SEER heat pumps from Trane. One is 3-tons and the other is 3.5-tons. House is 5400 sq. ft.
Cost covered heat pumps, inside air handlers, electrostatic air cleaner, fancy thermostats, and installation.

Our upstairs unit had an unfixable leak where the copper & aluminum meet @ year 7.  Basement unit completely dead @ year 11.  Main floor is leaking coolant.  I think 15-20 is unrealistic on these Bryants.

No, the $10k was to replace two units (2.0 and 2.5 tons) with a 2.5 or 3.0 ton dual zone, 2-stage compressor.  New coils and condensor, old furnace.  The ductwork is primarily to take the kinks out where they are being compressed and reducing CFM in the system.

I just had a gas furnace and A/C replaced with a new furnace and heat pump in a dual-fuel setup for $6500 (including new circ fan, coils, everything). So $10k for just an A/C sounds a bit whack unless it is a huge house or something.

Have the A/C guy coming to my house on Friday, I fear exactly what you are describing.  

 
Based on the five quotes I've gotten in the past month, this sounds like an impossibly good deal. And I have been getting only cash price quotes.


Where was this? I'm assuming not Ukraine?

No, that's not a good deal at all for a package with an 80% efficiency unit and only a 90k at that.

i'm in 672 square feet have 1 8k and 1 10k unit. same setup one in bedroom one in the living room. the 10 k is a little undersized for the living room but I rent so Its not mine to pull out. but it still keeps the room cool even when its hotter than shit outside.

People get way too tied up in SEER ratings for the ac... the price gets driven up the wall if you try to go high in seer ratings.


Unless if you plan on being in the same house for over a decade, don't go with the godly high seer rating, you'll never see your return on investment.  Keep in mind, in 10 years, the high seer units would be considered lower rated units and thus cheaper.

You're asking about two packages and a high SEER rating, plus you mention duct work and some additional other work.


10K is actually not terrible with all things considered.

 
How would you rate this quote?

2ton brothers /Goodman straight cool dry unit -500-650$
2ton matching air handler -450-650$
Refrigerant of choice est -6-7lbs 200+
New line sets -copper per foot say another 1-400$
Duct work /adapters to exsiting 1-300$
Labor 90-100$ per hour
Times than by two for split system add more for higher seer ratings ...extra goodies like tier 1 UV light sir cleaners...out of spec electrical wiring...thermostats ...zombies etc.

So yeah 10k for two systems ain't crazy....

My prices on the 2-2.5 is what our cost is at my work.......

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Sounds expensive to me but I'm not familiar with dual AC systems..

Only 10 years life span for a AC unit?  Renting is looking better all the time.

 
So you think the unit cost is all that's involved? Well, that's hilariously simplified right there.


I won't even bother making a sensible list of the other costs involved of the job, running the business, the insurance, licensing, workman's comp, BS and regulations that stand in the way of all that "obscene profit".


I'll bet those A/C guys are really raking in the dough...probably live in mansions with Bugattis in the driveway.


<looks out at my Ford Taurus with a rust spot on the fender>

This. Just had a 3.5 ton unit with 14 seer 92%eff unit installed for $4867 last week.

Competitive quotes are your friend. There was a wild difference in price from one installer to the next. The bigger guys were all quite a bit more as well, I guess they expected us to pay their advertising budget as well.