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Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:48:02 AM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:

  How would you rate this quote?


http://i.imgur.com/ylwx8G7.png
http://i.imgur.com/Bs3s3F5.png
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I had my entire system replaced last week. I went with a Trane 16 seer 3.5 ton outside unit and a variable speed two stage with Dehumidification  Trane 80% 90k BTU furnace and all new connections.....the whole shebang. It cost me $6200. Just ask what the CASH price is if you have it.

  Based on the five quotes I've gotten in the past month, this sounds like an impossibly good deal. And I have been getting only cash price quotes.

Where was this? I'm assuming not Ukraine?


No, that's not a good deal at all for a package with an 80% efficiency unit and only a 90k at that.

  How would you rate this quote?


http://i.imgur.com/ylwx8G7.png
http://i.imgur.com/Bs3s3F5.png



You're going to pay more for trane, quite a bit more but it's a great system.


I'd probably skip the permit and the thermostat to save on costs but that is just me.  I'd rather prefer a NEST.



Buy your trane from Lowes, use a lowes card and it will knock of another 5%.  Lowes works with trane.  They sometimes work with the gas/elec companies for additional discounts and rebates.  IIRC, costco does the same thing but with lennox, might be a better discount.


I have a similar setup as yours (i think the same condenser model)I had a 4.5 ton coil and a two stage handler with a larger capacity furnace to match.  I didn't care for the two stage, if I do it again I'll do single stage.


You can also look at a Goodman (it's considered the bottom bang for the buck), but the savings is huge.  You'll save probably close to 3k total.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:49:37 AM EDT
[#2]
We had an 8yo Lennox system go out.  Don't remember the numbers, but the compressor and accompanying parts to fix was $$$.  New system $$$$$$.  Ended up doing a bunch of research and went with an 16seer (3ton) Goodman system with all the new (at the time) bells and whistles.  Paid cash and was less than 5k installed.

People will sometimes talk bad about Goodman but the warranty is super, system is very quiet, and so far has been completely solid six years (and three renters) later.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:54:57 AM EDT
[#3]
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This.  Pay now, or pay every month.z
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all that SEER doesn't come cheap.

This.  Pay now, or pay every month.z


You will not save enough money going from 16 to 17 SEER to pay for the unit over the average lifespan of the unit unless your electric rates are insanely expensive.  I have a 13 SEER heat pump and my average electric bill (all electric) is $160/mo heating and cooling 2080 sq. ft.  Going up to a 17 SEER would never pay off.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:08:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:09:37 AM EDT
[#5]
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Sounds expensive to me but I'm not familiar with dual AC systems..

Only 10 years life span for a AC unit?  Renting is looking better all the time.
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They last longer if cared for. Most aren't.
Filters changed only when they look like a yetis ass ...condensation lines cleared only when it floods the house....coils cleaned only after the unit ices up constantly ....which in turns has the worlds snowflakes turn it from 73 to 50f expecting it yo get colder because the lil led screen says "50"...which then causes all sorts of fun...burnt caps...blown compressors....etc etc etc....

That's why 10 years is avg...

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:13:36 AM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:


You will not save enough money going from 16 to 17 SEER to pay for the unit over the average lifespan of the unit unless your electric rates are insanely expensive.  I have a 13 SEER heat pump and my average electric bill (all electric) is $160/mo heating and cooling 2080 sq. ft.  Going up to a 17 SEER would never pay off.
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all that SEER doesn't come cheap.

This.  Pay now, or pay every month.z


You will not save enough money going from 16 to 17 SEER to pay for the unit over the average lifespan of the unit unless your electric rates are insanely expensive.  I have a 13 SEER heat pump and my average electric bill (all electric) is $160/mo heating and cooling 2080 sq. ft.  Going up to a 17 SEER would never pay off.

Before we replaced the top floor unit, our monthly electrical during the summer was $600-700.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:21:04 AM EDT
[#7]
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This. Just had a 3.5 ton unit with 14 seer 92%eff unit installed for $4867 last week.

Competitive quotes are your friend. There was a wild difference in price from one installer to the next. The bigger guys were all quite a bit more as well, I guess they expected us to pay their advertising budget as well.
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Quoted:
all that SEER doesn't come cheap.



This. Just had a 3.5 ton unit with 14 seer 92%eff unit installed for $4867 last week.

Competitive quotes are your friend. There was a wild difference in price from one installer to the next. The bigger guys were all quite a bit more as well, I guess they expected us to pay their advertising budget as well.



I was always told to find a smaller shop with less overhead that is HVAC only.  'Plumbing and Heating' companies make their money in plumbing, so they will be ass fuckers when it comes to AC install.  Granted it has been a while since I did a new system, but I found THAT guy and he was 1/3 of the P&H dealers and started installation the next day, done in one day, and doubled the manufacturer's warranty.  

My current unit is either a 10 or 12 SEER and is about 12 years old.  I am sure it is undersized in tonnage, but I am thinking about replacing it during the cooler fall weather when their is less demand and maybe more room to negotiate.

My unit was sized when the house had single pane windows.  It would not get down to 78 on the hotter days.  Now with double pane low-E glass, it will get down to 78 on a 110 degree day, but it will take a solid run of 2 hours straight to get there.  I am thinking it should get cooler, quicker.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:22:47 AM EDT
[#8]


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  So you think the unit cost is all that's involved? Well, that's hilariously simplified right there.
I won't even bother making a sensible list of the other costs involved of the job, running the business, the insurance, licensing, workman's comp, BS and regulations that stand in the way of all that "obscene profit".
I'll bet those A/C guys are really raking in the dough...probably live in mansions with Bugattis in the driveway.
<looks out at my Ford Taurus with a rust spot on the fender>


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Bah.
Research the distributor cost of the unit, then ask why he thinks two guys working for one day are worth $3k each.





  So you think the unit cost is all that's involved? Well, that's hilariously simplified right there.
I won't even bother making a sensible list of the other costs involved of the job, running the business, the insurance, licensing, workman's comp, BS and regulations that stand in the way of all that "obscene profit".
I'll bet those A/C guys are really raking in the dough...probably live in mansions with Bugattis in the driveway.
<looks out at my Ford Taurus with a rust spot on the fender>


side job gone awry. but heck they beat my price by 1400 bucks. of course I have 2 million in insurance coverage and my guys don't cut a small hole in the metal roof, pass the torch up and cut the rest of the holes with the tanks underneath. but it was way cheaper, like 3.4 million since the insurance companies don't cover unlicensed activities


 

Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:26:33 AM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:



This. Just had a 3.5 ton unit with 14 seer 92%eff unit installed for $4867 last week.

Competitive quotes are your friend. There was a wild difference in price from one installer to the next. The bigger guys were all quite a bit more as well, I guess they expected us to pay their advertising budget as well.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
all that SEER doesn't come cheap.



This. Just had a 3.5 ton unit with 14 seer 92%eff unit installed for $4867 last week.

Competitive quotes are your friend. There was a wild difference in price from one installer to the next. The bigger guys were all quite a bit more as well, I guess they expected us to pay their advertising budget as well.


Lower Alabama here.

4 ton, 14 seer, ducts ripped out and new ducts throughout(they were old pipes I had poorly patched from days gone by), couple of new vents added, most of house new insulation - $8500.  Outside unit was undersized and 32 years old, attic furnace was 14.

3 quotes ranged from $8500 to $10,500.

ETA: Amana.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:31:36 AM EDT
[#10]
Neibor just paid $12,000, being i am a first time newer home owner I was like .  After asking around it seems this is normal.  Thank god mine is only 6 years old.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:36:05 AM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:
all that SEER doesn't come cheap.
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This.  Once you go above a certain SEER point, the cost escalates stupidly.  You will likely never recoup the extra cost either.  Pick a lower SEER, save money, and be happy.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:48:45 AM EDT
[#12]
I installed dual-zone Trane units a few years back in the house, both the air handlers and A/C outside units, plus thermostats.  $12,000 and worth every penny.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 11:08:53 AM EDT
[#13]
I just got a quote for a 2ton 16 SEER for ~$7k.  
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 11:37:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 12:22:00 PM EDT
[#15]


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Actually, the numbers are not that easy.


<snipped>
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Awesome post, and perfectly illustrates the hidden costs and complexities of a QUALITY install.







You can do this stuff really cheap...and you might even get lucky and the install isn't a shit-show, and they guessed right and sized your house correctly which will keep your A/C from performing worth a shit, and the roll-o-the-dice contractor grade crap they installed miraculously lasts 15 years, and nothing goes wrong that requires that crew to come out and unfuck anything, and when you sell the house it's not a code-violation that costs you more money, etc.







Or, you can pay for an efficient system installed by someone with a good track record, insurance, a substantial warranty and who stands behind their work and installs a quality product (using quality materials, not just the unit itself). That isn't a quick, easy, or simple thing. 2 guys doing a good, clean, "get everything right" install takes ALL FUCKING DAY.







Having been on both sides of that transaction now, I sure see it clearly. Also, working with ZW17 doing these installs, I've been privy to ripping out the horrendous, jacked-up, unsafe, not even close to code nightmares that someone bought before us...likely for a really good deal. Craiglist hacks, high-volume/low-quality outfits, and incompetents all save you some dough...up front.


 
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 12:26:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 12:34:11 PM EDT
[#17]
We just had our air conditioner and furnace replaced this weekend. We got a Bryant 16 SEER single speed 4 ton AC that is energy star compliant. We also got a Bryant furnace that is not energy star compliant because who cares? Here in San Diego we don't use our furnace that much. Anyway we paid 7k for both, installed.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 12:39:51 PM EDT
[#18]
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There is a huge markup in HVAC. Think about it they can charge pretty much what they think they can get from you. You don't want to live in a house that's 90 degrees in the summer time do you?

Bottom line is there is room to negotiate with most HVAC contractors. You need to make sure they do the proper load calculations and that they just don't estimate it off the square footage of the space.

The HVAC units themselves are insanely expensive for what they are. It's a compressor with copper tubing and a fan motor. You can buy a new car for what some of these systems cost.
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That's what gets me about residential HVAC.  We replaced our A/C a couple of months ago (leaking evap coil, didn't want to drop $800 or so to fix a 20 year old A/C).  After doing all the reading and research, I quickly realized that these damned things are not complex devices at all.  They are nothing more than copper tubing, two heat exchangers, a compressor, and a fan.  That's it.

Fortunately we have a family friend who is a general contractor and installed an A/C for us extremely cheap as a side job.  About half what it would've cost from the local guys in town.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 12:50:43 PM EDT
[#19]
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We had an 8yo Lennox system go out.  Don't remember the numbers, but the compressor and accompanying parts to fix was $$$.  New system $$$$$$.  Ended up doing a bunch of research and went with an 16seer (3ton) Goodman system with all the new (at the time) bells and whistles.  Paid cash and was less than 5k installed.

People will sometimes talk bad about Goodman but the warranty is super, system is very quiet, and so far has been completely solid six years (and three renters) later.
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We installed a new Goodman unit about 3 months ago.  The guy doing the install clearly knew what he was doing, and my research suggested that the life of the unit was more about the knowledge of the installer than the actually hardware.  The new unit uses noticeably less electricity and makes less than half as much noise as the 20 year old piece of crap that was sitting out there.

Given that the guy that put ours in was a family friend and we got it for half normal price installed, then it only has to last 7 years for it to be break even considering the price we were quoted for a Bryant system.  I'm pretty damned sure it will last at least that long.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 12:50:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:07:23 PM EDT
[#21]

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You really need to tell the story about your shops recent install nightmare... It was tailor built for this thread.

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Corner cutting, 101. My day job is a print shop and the prepress/computer room is served by a large 2-coil AC unit and air handler. When it went out, my boss cheap-skated and went with a company not known for it's industrial HVAC prowess, and what they got was a week-long fiasco. The new Air Handler went in on a concrete mezzanine above the prepress, where the numbnuts installers screwed up the condensate drain (installing two traps and having a portion of it run uphill). It collected a massive amount of water in the unit's pan, which bent and let it all come flying out in a wave that went into the only open spot it could find (a support beam crack) and then down into the ceiling where it dumped gallons of filthy water directly onto a server tower, taking out two of the ($15k) servers.




Nothing wrong with the unit...but the imbeciles who installed it failed physics. Boss tried to save a bunch of money, hired without giving thought to the quality of installation.




This reverberated through the shop as those servers are the backbone of our operation - we're still down and farming work out. Damages probably into the $50k range by the time its said and done.




Whoops.











Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:22:57 PM EDT
[#22]
If the upstairs unit ain't broke, I wouldn't fix it.  It could run another 10+ years.  





For the basement unit, you can buy the equipment on Ebay.  If you don't buy it on Ebay, those prices will indicate how much your local AC company is paying.  


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rheem-2-Ton-15-5-SEER-R410A-X-13-Complete-Split-System-AC-Only-/151721782578





I like to buy units that are SLIGHTLY larger that the calcs.  Rather than a 1.5 ton unit, I'd put a 2.0 ton unit in the basement.  


- If I am away, I can turn the unit off.  Larger units can catch up quickly.  


- If the equipment isn't running so much (hours), I think it will last longer.  

 
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:33:42 PM EDT
[#23]
I just paid $24k to have a new 4 ton carrier 21 seer and 98% gas furnace installed, both greenspeed models and absolute top of the line.





All the old ducting was ripped out and all new registers went in including adding two new return ducts.  Took two guys 6 full days to do all the work and I have a 10 year warranty on parts and 5 year on labor that includes seasonal maint.





I do not feel ripped off, considering I used to be a contractor and understand all the overhead that goes along with being an established biz that will be in existence years from now.





Yes I could have got the same for cheaper but you do get what you pay for.



ETA: I am an engineer and also a mechanical construction superintendent on multi billion dollar process facilities.  I understand installation value above materials cost.
 
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:37:33 PM EDT
[#24]

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I like to buy units that are SLIGHTLY larger that the calcs.  Rather than a 1.5 ton unit, I'd put a 2.0 ton unit in the basement.  

- If I am away, I can turn the unit off.  Larger units can catch up quickly.  

- If the equipment isn't running so much (hours), I think it will last longer.    
View Quote




 
Over-sizing a unit is foolish. It should be sized correctly with a good heat loss/heat gain survey, so that it runs optimally and removes humidity not just blow a short burst of cold air. Short cycling is just as hard on a unit, while not cooling properly, as running all the time.






Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:38:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:41:55 PM EDT
[#26]

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1) All manufacturers will void any and all  warranties with online purchases. So using eBay as a price gauge is inaccurate as you are not getting any sort of warranty which does hold a very real value. I can show you links to the online contracts that show this.



2) Bigger is worse. The constant start/stop of anything electrical or mechanical is what A) causes the most wear B) causes the most energy consumption. Oversized equipment also causes rapid tempature swings and poor dehumidification, not to mention using electricity, gas, or oil that you don't need. So you just paid for an oversized unit that will have a shorter life, cause your home to be less comfortable, and increase you energy bills.



There is a science behind making the entire system work in your favor, very few people realize this.
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Quoted:



Quoted:

If the upstairs unit ain't broke, I wouldn't fix it.  It could run another 10+ years.  



You can buy the equipment on Ebay.  If you don't buy it on Ebay, those prices will indicate how much your local AC company is paying.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rheem-2-Ton-15-5-SEER-R410A-X-13-Complete-Split-System-AC-Only-/151721782578



I like to buy units that are SLIGHTLY larger that the calcs.  Rather than a 1.5 ton unit, I'd put a 2.0 ton unit in the basement.  

- If I am away, I can turn the unit off.  Larger units can catch up quickly.  

- If the equipment isn't running so much (hours), I think it will last longer.  


1) All manufacturers will void any and all  warranties with online purchases. So using eBay as a price gauge is inaccurate as you are not getting any sort of warranty which does hold a very real value. I can show you links to the online contracts that show this.



2) Bigger is worse. The constant start/stop of anything electrical or mechanical is what A) causes the most wear B) causes the most energy consumption. Oversized equipment also causes rapid tempature swings and poor dehumidification, not to mention using electricity, gas, or oil that you don't need. So you just paid for an oversized unit that will have a shorter life, cause your home to be less comfortable, and increase you energy bills.



There is a science behind making the entire system work in your favor, very few people realize this.


This guy gets it.  More to cooling the air there is also latent heat contained in your furniture and such...running longer with less off/on cycles is a better system.



 
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:43:31 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:
Actually, the numbers are not that easy.

-snip-

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Thank you for a very informative post. I'm currently shopping HVAC installers in my area. We're going to replace our furnace and add A/C or a heat pump.

I already understood most of the points you made, but it's good to hear them from a professional in the field.

Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:51:06 PM EDT
[#28]
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Quoted:

  Over-sizing a unit is foolish. It should be sized correctly with a good heat loss/heat gain survey, so that it runs optimally and removes humidity not just blow a short burst of cold air. Short cycling is just as hard on a unit, while not cooling properly, as running all the time.




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Quoted:

I like to buy units that are SLIGHTLY larger that the calcs.  Rather than a 1.5 ton unit, I'd put a 2.0 ton unit in the basement.  
- If I am away, I can turn the unit off.  Larger units can catch up quickly.  
- If the equipment isn't running so much (hours), I think it will last longer.    

  Over-sizing a unit is foolish. It should be sized correctly with a good heat loss/heat gain survey, so that it runs optimally and removes humidity not just blow a short burst of cold air. Short cycling is just as hard on a unit, while not cooling properly, as running all the time.







I setup my system to have the best of both worlds. 2 stage cooling, with var. Speed air handler.  My small home calls for 1.5 tons. I went with a 2 ton 2stage unit, so it can run at 70% mostly, and the air handler can lower the fan speed as well.

A proper size Single stage unit will struggle in extreme temps. But with my extra cooling power it was 68 degrees in the house on a 105 degree day.


Multi stage units are something to consider. Running in low is alot more beneficial than an extra seer.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:51:49 PM EDT
[#29]
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:52:16 PM EDT
[#30]
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Quoted:



That's what I found out. It's almost like a racket. Try finding the dealer cost on a unit. You won't find it unless your a dealer or installer. The prices vary by region as well. Over at the hvac forum I looked at while researching, posting quote numbers was strictly forbidden.

They do pretty much charge what they can get out of you. Depending on your location and other factors, prices can literally double. For the same exact job and equipment.

I had a question for my installer the other day, and they said you wouldn't beleive how bad a/c companies gouge prices during a heat wave like we're having in the south right now.
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Quoted:
There is a huge markup in HVAC. Think about it they can charge pretty much what they think they can get from you. You don't want to live in a house that's 90 degrees in the summer time do you?

Bottom line is there is room to negotiate with most HVAC contractors. You need to make sure they do the proper load calculations and that they just don't estimate it off the square footage of the space.

The HVAC units themselves are insanely expensive for what they are. It's a compressor with copper tubing and a fan motor. You can buy a new car for what some of these systems cost.



That's what I found out. It's almost like a racket. Try finding the dealer cost on a unit. You won't find it unless your a dealer or installer. The prices vary by region as well. Over at the hvac forum I looked at while researching, posting quote numbers was strictly forbidden.

They do pretty much charge what they can get out of you. Depending on your location and other factors, prices can literally double. For the same exact job and equipment.

I had a question for my installer the other day, and they said you wouldn't beleive how bad a/c companies gouge prices during a heat wave like we're having in the south right now.


Some brands aren't exclusive. You can go buy a comfort maker or goodman in most areas at the same price that I can as an industrial contractor.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 1:55:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 2:08:32 PM EDT
[#32]
Zone dampers, controls and reworking your ductwork adds quite a bit to the cost of things. Personally I wouldn't do it, there is a lot more to it than just combining the units. If your just talking about replacing the coil, condenser and lineset I would price you about $5-6k. I just priced out two systems today a 2 ton and a 3 ton both 12 seer. Equipment cost was $3k.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 3:26:03 PM EDT
[#33]
This is (I think, still haven't gotten estimate back yet although promised last night) the recommended unit, although not from the installer I'm currently talking to:

Carrier Infinity, 17 SEER 3-ton @ $4,055.84

Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:10:17 PM EDT
[#34]
Got the quotes back this evening.  Options 1-5 are combining our basement AC/furnace and main floor AC/furnace into a single unit.  Option 6 is replacing the basement AC only.

Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:22:25 PM EDT
[#35]
Just had the AC guy check mine today. The compressor is about done.  Looking at a new system 14 Seer 3.5 ton waiting on the quote.

Anyone have a ballpark idea on cost?
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:23:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Get multiple quotes.
For the same equipment specifications (18 seer, multistage, variable speed fan), Carrier vs Trane was a 30% spread when I had quotes written up last week.

Kharn
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:33:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Sucks you don't know anyone personally in the field... I just put an attic unit in with an outdoor heat pump in my fathers house, the amount of work I did at his house and the equipment used would have easily cost him 12-13k, he paid probably 1/4 of that...
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:37:47 PM EDT
[#38]
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Quoted:
My Trane 16 SEER cost $12,000.


Worth every penny. Replaced a POS Goodman system that wasn't worth the pot-metal it was made of.


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I got a Bryant 17seer, 98m furnance, humidifier, and ipad looking thermostat for $8500, $7800 after mail rebates from utilities.

Theres got to be more in your $12G
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:38:21 PM EDT
[#39]
Tag for info as my exterior condenser is making some noise, not sure if the compress, unbalanced fan, etc.  Thus cooler outside than inside.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:39:32 PM EDT
[#40]

Quoted:


Our A/C unit in the basement is dead (coolant leak, oil in the system).  Our main floor A/C just got a coolant charge, but is 11 years old and the original (contractor grade) unit.  Typical lifespan for them is 10-12 years.



The basement A/C needs about 1.5 tons and is currently a 2.0 ton unit, while the main floor is 2.5 tons.





So, the heat & air engineer comes out today and we talk about just replacing the basement, replacing both, or combining into a single dual-zone unit.  We also discussed removing some "kinks" in the ducting from the original install and possibly moving a return vent and/or making another bigger to increase return CFM on the main floor.  We're looking at stuff in the basement where the furnaces are and throws out a $3200 ballpark number - which I think is the combined unit, and not as bad as I was worrying.





Well, we sit down upstairs and start going over the details of what he's going to quote and $3200 is for the 1.5 ton basement unit only - coils and compressor, re-using old furnace.



I'm like



"So, what kind of price range are we talking for the dual zone?  Say, the 17 seer 2-stage?"  He covers his face and says he hates roughing numbers without actually calculating the work, but "well, it should be less than $10,000."



Now I'm all





FFS, my first house was a 650 sq. ft. condo I bought for $40k, and he's talking almost $10k for an A/C unit.  



Am I crazy to think I could get a significantly better price elsewhere?

Am I crazy to seriously consider spending $10k instead of ~$7-8k for two new, separate units?  (Our upstairs was $4240 in 2011 for a new 3.0 ton unit plus some additional ducting.)
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Go to ebay buy the new units and put them in place and have someone qualified come hook them up, save 70%



 
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:40:39 PM EDT
[#41]

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Quoted:





1) All manufacturers will void any and all  warranties with online purchases. So using eBay as a price gauge is inaccurate as you are not getting any sort of warranty which does hold a very real value. I can show you links to the online contracts that show this.



2) Bigger is worse. The constant start/stop of anything electrical or mechanical is what A) causes the most wear B) causes the most energy consumption. Oversized equipment also causes rapid tempature swings and poor dehumidification, not to mention using electricity, gas, or oil that you don't need. So you just paid for an oversized unit that will have a shorter life, cause your home to be less comfortable, and increase you energy bills.



There is a science behind making the entire system work in your favor, very few people realize this.
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Quoted:



Quoted:

If the upstairs unit ain't broke, I wouldn't fix it.  It could run another 10+ years.  



You can buy the equipment on Ebay.  If you don't buy it on Ebay, those prices will indicate how much your local AC company is paying.  

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rheem-2-Ton-15-5-SEER-R410A-X-13-Complete-Split-System-AC-Only-/151721782578



I like to buy units that are SLIGHTLY larger that the calcs.  Rather than a 1.5 ton unit, I'd put a 2.0 ton unit in the basement.  

- If I am away, I can turn the unit off.  Larger units can catch up quickly.  

- If the equipment isn't running so much (hours), I think it will last longer.  


1) All manufacturers will void any and all  warranties with online purchases. So using eBay as a price gauge is inaccurate as you are not getting any sort of warranty which does hold a very real value. I can show you links to the online contracts that show this.



2) Bigger is worse. The constant start/stop of anything electrical or mechanical is what A) causes the most wear B) causes the most energy consumption. Oversized equipment also causes rapid tempature swings and poor dehumidification, not to mention using electricity, gas, or oil that you don't need. So you just paid for an oversized unit that will have a shorter life, cause your home to be less comfortable, and increase you energy bills.



There is a science behind making the entire system work in your favor, very few people realize this.


Uh, no.  



I bought Goodman equipment, registered it online, and had a problem a few years later.  Goodman honored their warranty.  

http://www.goodmanmfg.com/WarrantyOverview/WarrantyRegistration.aspx



 
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:44:58 PM EDT
[#42]

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Quoted:


This is (I think, still haven't gotten estimate back yet although promised last night) the recommended unit, although not from the installer I'm currently talking to:



Carrier Infinity, 17 SEER 3-ton @ $4,055.84



http://ncshvac.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/24ANB176-Infinity.jpg
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http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=Carrier+Infinity%2C+17+SEER+3-ton+&_sacat=0



 
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:45:44 PM EDT
[#43]

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Quoted:



Go to ebay buy the new units and put them in place and have someone qualified come hook them up, save 70%

 
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Quoted:



Quoted:

Our A/C unit in the basement is dead (coolant leak, oil in the system).  Our main floor A/C just got a coolant charge, but is 11 years old and the original (contractor grade) unit.  Typical lifespan for them is 10-12 years.



The basement A/C needs about 1.5 tons and is currently a 2.0 ton unit, while the main floor is 2.5 tons.

....

Go to ebay buy the new units and put them in place and have someone qualified come hook them up, save 70%

 
And don't forget to register your new equipment on the manufacturer's website.  If you need the warranty, the manufacturer will use the registration info (serial numbers) to verify that the equipment is under warranty.  





 
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:53:25 PM EDT
[#44]

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Quoted:


Bah.
Research the distributor cost of the unit, then ask why he thinks two guys working for one day are worth $3k each.

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Try that in Vegas, now. And you'll hear them LTFO until November, while you lose 10 pounds a day sweating in your house.

 



FML, the upstairs unit just went down.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:54:14 PM EDT
[#45]
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Quoted:
Tag for info as my exterior condenser is making some noise, not sure if the compress, unbalanced fan, etc.  Thus cooler outside than inside.
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Not an hvac guy but that screams condesor motor.

To the op I'm getting multiple quotes and letting the installers know it. I want best and final pricing.

Top of the line trane heater,blower,AC, humidity control is about 10k. Top of the line everything.

5 ton AC. 115 gas heater and handler. If I'm spending this kind of money I want it to truly condition the air.

The install cost should remain the same
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 9:54:58 PM EDT
[#46]
House flip Oct 2013 need a new AC unit had unit replaced (outside part and inside) for 2,300.00. I do a lot business with them so they gave me a break.

Don't remember size of house but think it was around 2,200 ft
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:19:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:22:30 PM EDT
[#48]
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Quoted:
Sucks you don't know anyone personally in the field... I just put an attic unit in with an outdoor heat pump in my fathers house, the amount of work I did at his house and the equipment used would have easily cost him 12-13k, he paid probably 1/4 of that...
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Want to fly to ATL for an install?  
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:23:47 PM EDT
[#49]
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Quoted:





I got a Bryant 17seer, 98m furnance, humidifier, and ipad looking thermostat for $8500, $7800 after mail rebates from utilities.

Theres got to be more in your $12G
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Quoted:
Quoted:
My Trane 16 SEER cost $12,000.


Worth every penny. Replaced a POS Goodman system that wasn't worth the pot-metal it was made of.







I got a Bryant 17seer, 98m furnance, humidifier, and ipad looking thermostat for $8500, $7800 after mail rebates from utilities.

Theres got to be more in your $12G



Bryant != Trane

Bryant is the bottom of the Carrier line "contractor grade" units I have now.
Link Posted: 6/23/2015 10:23:59 PM EDT
[#50]
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