User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:07:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What a waste  |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:10:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all  - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
GW was president for 8 years. How could everything be his fault? Never could understand this, is it because you are young and don't know history? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:10:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
The problem with this analysis was that what we are seeing was likely inevitable without the attempting to build some bulwark against it, which was what Iraq was... What we are seeing in the ME isn't a problem that's been brewing for 20 years, but closer to 100. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:14:14 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
Correct. We were told we were "spreading freedom" and "creating Democracy" Bullshit If Saddam was still in power he wouldn't let any of this slide. Sometimes people just need dictators |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:14:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem with this analysis was that what we are seeing was likely inevitable without the attempting to build some bulwark against it, which was what Iraq was... What we are seeing in the ME isn't a problem that's been brewing for 20 years, but closer to 1500. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
The problem with this analysis was that what we are seeing was likely inevitable without the attempting to build some bulwark against it, which was what Iraq was... What we are seeing in the ME isn't a problem that's been brewing for 20 years, but closer to 1500. muslims going to muslim. They are technically correct in their interpretation of islam. they are simply doing as Allah, through his prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon Him), commanded them to do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:15:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would love to be a fly on the way when they meet their maker.... I guess they are hell bent on pissing off all the Gods. you know you are screwed with Buddha is mad at you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:15:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So much for having a tourist industry. F*ckers. My sentiments also....... |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:18:07 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is why we should have plundered them all and brought them to the United States. but... but... democracy!!! |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:18:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ARF told me not too much was lost. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Nothing new. When Muslim armies invaded Egypt in 650 AD, they destroyed the largest repository of ancient human knowledge, the Alexandria library, and later tried to destroy the Sphinx. No telling how much info on ancient civilizations was lost because of that stunt. ARF told me not too much was lost. It set us back a couple centuries. Remember that people, if it wasn't for muslims we would all have flying cars. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:19:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Fucking savages.....
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:20:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
muslims going to muslim. They are technically correct in their interpretation of islam. they are simply doing as Allah, through his prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon Him), commanded them to do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
The problem with this analysis was that what we are seeing was likely inevitable without the attempting to build some bulwark against it, which was what Iraq was... What we are seeing in the ME isn't a problem that's been brewing for 20 years, but closer to 1500. muslims going to muslim. They are technically correct in their interpretation of islam. they are simply doing as Allah, through his prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon Him), commanded them to do. beat me to the edit 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:21:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I'm going to be that guy. Didn't Hitler attempt to do the same thing by collecting all the famous artwork in Europe and lock them away to be destroyed later? Just the opposite. Hitler and his cronies were consummate art collectors, as they fancied themselves as being intelligentsia and high class. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:21:25 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GW was president for 8 years. How could everything be his fault? Never could understand this, is it because you are young and don't know history? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
GW was president for 8 years. How could everything be his fault? Never could understand this, is it because you are young and don't know history? I'd be happy to compare history knowledge with you at any time. I also served in Mosul for a year and have some knowledge of it. When did I write "everything is George Bush's fault?" Of course it is not. The other poster mentioned this problem brewing for a hundred years, fair enough. The point is that secular governments in the region - like Saddam's - WERE the bullwark against this savagery, and we tore Iraq's secular government down. Period. Same with Obama - did we like Qadafi in Libya? Of course not, but now Libya is worse. Same with Syria, do we like Asad? Of course not - thug. But now we think we can figure out who the democracy loving Free Syrian Army is, and we'll just give arms to those people. Sure. Do you really believe we're that smart? Point is - stability in the region matters more than our western concept of democracy. Foreign policy realism |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:21:49 PM EDT
[#14]
I guess that IS believes in shovel ready jobs, too.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:22:39 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
muslims going to muslim. They are technically correct in their interpretation of islam. they are simply doing as Allah, through his prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon Him), commanded them to do. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
The problem with this analysis was that what we are seeing was likely inevitable without the attempting to build some bulwark against it, which was what Iraq was... What we are seeing in the ME isn't a problem that's been brewing for 20 years, but closer to 1500. muslims going to muslim. They are technically correct in their interpretation of islam. they are simply doing as Allah, through his prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon Him), commanded them to do. The Ottomans ruled Iraq from what,roughly 1500 to 1920? That's 400 years of knowing not to destroy such things. Saddam tried to coopt/.incorporate ancient history ,like the statues with the Sumerian helmets 
I can't disagree that the Daesh aren't taking a literal - as someone said,an autiscially literal - interpretation of Islam,were it true that all Muslims believe the same then none of these would have survived this long. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:23:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In hindsight, this isn't a bad idea. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That is why we should have plundered them all and brought them to the United States. In hindsight, this isn't a bad idea. Maybe in century or two - if they got their shit together... We could repatriate the artifacts to the original country. But now - all we can do if stand by & helplessly watch them try to erase thousands of years of history. Fucking fucks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:24:15 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess that IS believes in shovel ready jobs, too. I giggled. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:24:58 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Ottomans ruled Iraq from what,roughly 1500 to 1920? That's 400 years of knowing not to destroy such things. Saddam tried to coopt/.incorporate ancient history ,like the statues with the Sumerian helmets http://www.smh.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1070351666648_2003/12/04/saddam_bust,0.jpg I can't disagree that the Daesh aren't taking a literal - as someone said,an autiscially literal - interpretation of Islam,were it true that all Muslims believe the same then none of these would have survived this long. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
The problem with this analysis was that what we are seeing was likely inevitable without the attempting to build some bulwark against it, which was what Iraq was... What we are seeing in the ME isn't a problem that's been brewing for 20 years, but closer to 1500. muslims going to muslim. They are technically correct in their interpretation of islam. they are simply doing as Allah, through his prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon Him), commanded them to do. The Ottomans ruled Iraq from what,roughly 1500 to 1920? That's 400 years of knowing not to destroy such things. Saddam tried to coopt/.incorporate ancient history ,like the statues with the Sumerian helmets http://www.smh.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1070351666648_2003/12/04/saddam_bust,0.jpg I can't disagree that the Daesh aren't taking a literal - as someone said,an autiscially literal - interpretation of Islam,were it true that all Muslims believe the same then none of these would have survived this long. That the Ottomans were bad muslims I don't question. Are you telling me Mohammad (Peace be upon Him) was WRONG? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:25:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd be happy to compare history knowledge with you at any time. I also served in Mosul for a year and have some knowledge of it. When did I write "everything is George Bush's fault?" Of course it is not. The other poster mentioned this problem brewing for a hundred years, fair enough. The point is that secular governments in the region - like Saddam's - WERE the bullwark against this savagery, and we tore Iraq's secular government down. Period. Same with Obama - did we like Qadafi in Libya? Of course not, but now Libya is worse. It's OK to criticize the government - Republican or Democrat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
GW was president for 8 years. How could everything be his fault? Never could understand this, is it because you are young and don't know history? I'd be happy to compare history knowledge with you at any time. I also served in Mosul for a year and have some knowledge of it. When did I write "everything is George Bush's fault?" Of course it is not. The other poster mentioned this problem brewing for a hundred years, fair enough. The point is that secular governments in the region - like Saddam's - WERE the bullwark against this savagery, and we tore Iraq's secular government down. Period. Same with Obama - did we like Qadafi in Libya? Of course not, but now Libya is worse. It's OK to criticize the government - Republican or Democrat. Saddam had dispensed with any form of secularized Ba'athist governance after the post 1991 uprisings of the Marsh Arabs and the Kurds showed that there was only one group of people in Iraq he could trust. That's why he was building the biggest mosque in the world and importing Palestinians as loyalist head crackers. Secularized government itself was just another Western invention grafted onto Muslims by force of arms, nearly everywhere it's been tried in the Arab world. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:25:53 PM EDT
[#20]
And the French still insist that it's OK to loan some of the Western world's greatest art treasures to Abu Dhabi.
It's insane to trust these to any Muslim nation in the Middle East: http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-300-masterpieces-from-french-museums-set-for-louvre-abu-dhabi-2014-10 |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:26:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
Hey buddy, get a clue. Syria fell under Obama Yemen fell under Obama Libya fell under Obama Iraq fell under Obama Egypt fell under Obama Etc... Obama's foreign policy is what is responsible for the emergence of ISIS and ISIS even admits it. Sorry to burst your proto-socialist fantasies. ISIS Claims Terror Group ‘Re-Awoke’ After Obama Decided To Withdraw From Iraq The Islamic State, it says, “re-awoke” in the midst of Syrian turmoil and “the exit of American troops from Iraq in 2010.” http://nation.foxnews.com/2015/02/25/isis-claims-terror-group-re-awoke-after-obama-decided-withdraw-iraq |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:26:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess they are hell bent on pissing off all the Gods. you know you are screwed with Buddha is mad at you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would love to be a fly on the way when they meet their maker.... I guess they are hell bent on pissing off all the Gods. you know you are screwed with Buddha is mad at you. The Chinese seem to be the ones fucking with the Buddha by destroying Temples in Tibet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:27:50 PM EDT
[#23]
Insa'allah
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:27:53 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saddam had dispensed with any form of secularized Ba'athist governance after the post 1991 uprisings of the Marsh Arabs and the Kurds showed that there was only one group of people in Iraq he could trust. That's why he was building the biggest mosque in the world and importing Palestinians as loyalist head crackers. Secularized government itself was just another Western invention grafted onto Muslims by force of arms, nearly everywhere it's been tried in the Arab world. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
GW was president for 8 years. How could everything be his fault? Never could understand this, is it because you are young and don't know history? I'd be happy to compare history knowledge with you at any time. I also served in Mosul for a year and have some knowledge of it. When did I write "everything is George Bush's fault?" Of course it is not. The other poster mentioned this problem brewing for a hundred years, fair enough. The point is that secular governments in the region - like Saddam's - WERE the bullwark against this savagery, and we tore Iraq's secular government down. Period. Same with Obama - did we like Qadafi in Libya? Of course not, but now Libya is worse. It's OK to criticize the government - Republican or Democrat. Saddam had dispensed with any form of secularized Ba'athist governance after the post 1991 uprisings of the Marsh Arabs and the Kurds showed that there was only one group of people in Iraq he could trust. That's why he was building the biggest mosque in the world and importing Palestinians as loyalist head crackers. Secularized government itself was just another Western invention grafted onto Muslims by force of arms, nearly everywhere it's been tried in the Arab world. you want commie money? pretend to be commie. commie money runs out? stop pretending. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:29:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, I'm going to be that guy. Didn't Hitler attempt to do the same thing by collecting all the famous artwork in Europe and lock them away to be destroyed later? No (as said by several folks already) they were confiscated because they were valuable and were intended to held in the private collections of leading Nazis. Hitler considered himself quite the artist and enjoyed owning great works of art. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:30:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote History Saddam had dispensed with any form of secularized Ba'athist governance after the post 1991 uprisings of the Marsh Arabs and the Kurds showed that there was only one group of people in Iraq he could trust. That's why he was building the biggest mosque in the world and importing Palestinians as loyalist head crackers.
Secularized government itself was just another Western invention grafted onto Muslims by force of arms, nearly everywhere it's been tried in the Arab world. Well, you make a good point - although Saddam's government was not religion based certainly, it was power and "paranoia" based. But which should we prefer - pretend secular governments in the middle east or complete batshit crazy Islamist governments? What's the end game? In other words, even if you're right and secular governments in the ME are a western fiction, is the current state of affairs better? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:30:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. They were confiscated because they were valuable and were intended to held in the private collections of leading Nazis. Hitler considered himself quite the artist and enjoyed owning great works of art. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok, I'm going to be that guy. Didn't Hitler attempt to do the same thing by collecting all the famous artwork in Europe and lock them away to be destroyed later? No. They were confiscated because they were valuable and were intended to held in the private collections of leading Nazis. Hitler considered himself quite the artist and enjoyed owning great works of art. he was going to save all the jewish stuff and make a museum out of it. many torahs in the US came from the nazis stash why would you save something to destroy it later? you would just destroy it immediately. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:30:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And the French still insist that it's OK to loan some of the Western world's greatest art treasures to Abu Dhabi. It's insane to trust these to any Muslim nation in the Middle East: http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-300-masterpieces-from-french-museums-set-for-louvre-abu-dhabi-2014-10 The French whoring themselves out to rich Easterners is a song about as old as the French state. The Pope sent messages to the French asking them not to arm the Turks fighting Christians in the Eastern Med. Now, they build ships for the Russians and rent their cultural heritage out for dinars. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:31:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, I'm going to be that guy. Didn't Hitler attempt to do the same thing by collecting all the famous artwork in Europe and lock them away to be destroyed sold later? FIFY |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:31:57 PM EDT
[#30]
this is why we should never return antiquities to the middle east. You never know when an outbreak of fundamentalism will wind up destroying priceless artifacts.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:32:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryIf Saddam was still in power he wouldn't let any of this slide. Sometimes people just need dictators Some people just need a dictator. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:34:05 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, you make a good point - although Saddam's government was not religion based certainly, it was power and "paranoia" based. But which should we prefer - pretend secular governments in the middle east or complete batshit crazy Islamist governments? What's the end game? In other words, even if you're right and secular governments in the ME are a western fiction, is the current state of affairs better? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saddam had dispensed with any form of secularized Ba'athist governance after the post 1991 uprisings of the Marsh Arabs and the Kurds showed that there was only one group of people in Iraq he could trust. That's why he was building the biggest mosque in the world and importing Palestinians as loyalist head crackers.
Secularized government itself was just another Western invention grafted onto Muslims by force of arms, nearly everywhere it's been tried in the Arab world. Well, you make a good point - although Saddam's government was not religion based certainly, it was power and "paranoia" based. But which should we prefer - pretend secular governments in the middle east or complete batshit crazy Islamist governments? What's the end game? In other words, even if you're right and secular governments in the ME are a western fiction, is the current state of affairs better? We should make no bones ideologically that we feel that military dictatorships are a necessary bridge to more responsible governance. But, that's not going to happen, regardless of its track record of success. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:34:32 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey buddy, get a clue. Syria fell under Obama Yemen fell under Obama Libya fell under Obama Iraq fell under Obama Egypt fell under Obama Etc... Obama's foreign policy is what is responsible for the emergence of ISIS and ISIS even admits it. Sorry to burst your proto-socialist fantasies. ISIS Claims Terror Group ‘Re-Awoke’ After Obama Decided To Withdraw From Iraq http://nation.foxnews.com/2015/02/25/isis-claims-terror-group-re-awoke-after-obama-decided-withdraw-iraq Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
Hey buddy, get a clue. Syria fell under Obama Yemen fell under Obama Libya fell under Obama Iraq fell under Obama Egypt fell under Obama Etc... Obama's foreign policy is what is responsible for the emergence of ISIS and ISIS even admits it. Sorry to burst your proto-socialist fantasies. ISIS Claims Terror Group ‘Re-Awoke’ After Obama Decided To Withdraw From Iraq The Islamic State, it says, “re-awoke” in the midst of Syrian turmoil and “the exit of American troops from Iraq in 2010.” http://nation.foxnews.com/2015/02/25/isis-claims-terror-group-re-awoke-after-obama-decided-withdraw-iraq Hey buddy get a clue yourself and maybe turn off Fox. Sorry to burst your 'proto-news reporting fantasies'. All the thing above in red are correct and why I mentioned Obama is also terrible. Iraq did not fall under Obama - Iraq's government fell when Bush decided to invade it. Would we have delayed ISIS by staying in Iraq longer? Sure - how long did you want us to stay? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:35:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We should make no bones ideologically that we feel that military dictatorships are a necessary bridge to more responsible governance. But, that's not going to happen, regardless of its track record of success. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Saddam had dispensed with any form of secularized Ba'athist governance after the post 1991 uprisings of the Marsh Arabs and the Kurds showed that there was only one group of people in Iraq he could trust. That's why he was building the biggest mosque in the world and importing Palestinians as loyalist head crackers.
Secularized government itself was just another Western invention grafted onto Muslims by force of arms, nearly everywhere it's been tried in the Arab world. Well, you make a good point - although Saddam's government was not religion based certainly, it was power and "paranoia" based. But which should we prefer - pretend secular governments in the middle east or complete batshit crazy Islamist governments? What's the end game? In other words, even if you're right and secular governments in the ME are a western fiction, is the current state of affairs better? We should make no bones ideologically that we feel that military dictatorships are a necessary bridge to more responsible governance. But, that's not going to happen, regardless of its track record of success. + 1 agreed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:36:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some ALL people just need a dictator. Quote HistoryQuoted:
If Saddam was still in power he wouldn't let any of this slide. Sometimes people just need dictators Some ALL people just need a dictator. Saddam 2016 |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:36:43 PM EDT
[#36]
The Saudis have been quietly destroying the historical sights in Mecca too.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:38:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd be happy to compare history knowledge with you at any time. I also served in Mosul for a year and have some knowledge of it. When did I write "everything is George Bush's fault?" Of course it is not. The other poster mentioned this problem brewing for a hundred years, fair enough. The point is that secular governments in the region - like Saddam's - WERE the bullwark against this savagery, and we tore Iraq's secular government down. Period. Same with Obama - did we like Qadafi in Libya? Of course not, but now Libya is worse. Same with Syria, do we like Asad? Of course not - thug. But now we think we can figure out who the democracy loving Free Syrian Army is, and we'll just give arms to those people. Sure. Do you really believe we're that smart? Point is - stability in the region matters more than our western concept of democracy. Foreign policy realism Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
GW was president for 8 years. How could everything be his fault? Never could understand this, is it because you are young and don't know history? I'd be happy to compare history knowledge with you at any time. I also served in Mosul for a year and have some knowledge of it. When did I write "everything is George Bush's fault?" Of course it is not. The other poster mentioned this problem brewing for a hundred years, fair enough. The point is that secular governments in the region - like Saddam's - WERE the bullwark against this savagery, and we tore Iraq's secular government down. Period. Same with Obama - did we like Qadafi in Libya? Of course not, but now Libya is worse. Same with Syria, do we like Asad? Of course not - thug. But now we think we can figure out who the democracy loving Free Syrian Army is, and we'll just give arms to those people. Sure. Do you really believe we're that smart? Point is - stability in the region matters more than our western concept of democracy. Foreign policy realism Iraq was the spitting image of stability prior to 2003 
It's not like Saddam initiated a war with Iran....or Kuwait....or habitually imprisoned/tortured/killed THOUSANDS of his people...or used weapons of mass destruction on his own people....yeah that would be CRAZY to think. ISIS are bad mother fuckers for sure....but to claim that A: US involvement in Iraq "created" ISIS or B: Iraq was better off under Saddam....that shows you lack critical thinking skills. Your assessment of the situation is effectively "better the devil you know than the one you don't". Well fuck evil all around. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:39:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not like Saddam initiated a war with Iran....or Kuwait....or habitually imprisoned/tortured/killed THOUSANDS of his people...or used weapons of mass destruction on his own people....yeah that would be CRAZY to think. ISIS are bad mother fuckers for sure....but to claim that A: US involvement in Iraq "created" ISIS or B: Iraq was better off under Saddam....that shows you lack critical thinking skills. Your assessment of the situation is effectively "better the devil you know than the one you don't". Well fuck evil all around. That is not a realistic goal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:40:27 PM EDT
[#39]
I think we should release the sun God on them. Know what I'm saying?;)
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:41:34 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
they are simply doing as Allah, through his prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon Him), commanded them to do. Yup. Wipe out everyone and everything that's insufficiently islamic. Islam is inherently incompatible with any other system of belief on the planet. And by "incompatible" I don't mean that it merely disagrees with other systems of belief, but commands followers to destroy all other systems of belief. http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/ Lest someone start yakking at me about "moderate" muslims: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11433776/Quarter-of-British-Muslims-sympathise-with-Charlie-Hebdo-terrorists.html When sizeable chunks of muslims in western democracies agree with the guys slaughtering others for supposed "disrespect" towards some prophet, we have a fuckin' problem. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:42:08 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Correct. We were told we were "spreading freedom" and "creating Democracy" Bullshit If Saddam was still in power he wouldn't let any of this slide. Sometimes people just need dictators Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Right, Bushes fault. I voted for George Bush twice, but correct - it is George Bush's fault. The idea that we can destroy and destabilize governments and because we're America and herp derpa we're just so smart and powerful we can create a democracy there - because everybody wants democracy after all - was wrong and most of all ARROGANT. It's kind of like that Esurance commercial - That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works. Obama is also shitty and disappointing in many ways.
Correct. We were told we were "spreading freedom" and "creating Democracy" Bullshit If Saddam was still in power he wouldn't let any of this slide. Sometimes people just need dictators Yeah, places like California, NY, Chicago, and Seattle. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:42:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Saudis have been quietly destroying the historical sights in Mecca too. The more they destroy, the stronger our claim on the ones in the West becomes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:44:33 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryISIS are bad mother fuckers for sure....but to claim that A: US involvement in Iraq "created" ISIS or B: Iraq was better off under Saddam....that shows you lack critical thinking skills. Your assessment of the situation is effectively "better the devil you know than the one you don't". Well fuck evil all around. As another poster mentioned, not realistic. We didn't create ISIS, we just destabilized governments in the the region allowing them to grab territory. Again, foreign policy realism, yes - in a way I am arguing better the devil you know than the one you do not. As far as critical thinking, you mean like the critical thinking we used in 2003 when we invaded? |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:45:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And what does our fearless dear leader do......absolutely nothing. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:49:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: idiots...uneducated idiots...pure and simple... destroying history is a barbaric thing... Burning people alive in cages, cutting peoples heads off, machine-gunning people into pits and selling women and children into bondage as 'sex slaves' ranks a close second.   |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:50:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Some folks just need shot.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:51:18 PM EDT
[#47]
Video removed.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:54:14 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As another poster mentioned, not realistic. We didn't create ISIS, we just destabilized governments in the the region allowing them to grab territory. Again, foreign policy realism, yes - in a way I am arguing better the devil you know than the one you do not. As far as critical thinking, you mean like the critical thinking we used in 2003 when we invaded? Quote HistoryQuoted:
ISIS are bad mother fuckers for sure....but to claim that A: US involvement in Iraq "created" ISIS or B: Iraq was better off under Saddam....that shows you lack critical thinking skills. Your assessment of the situation is effectively "better the devil you know than the one you don't". Well fuck evil all around. As another poster mentioned, not realistic. We didn't create ISIS, we just destabilized governments in the the region allowing them to grab territory. Again, foreign policy realism, yes - in a way I am arguing better the devil you know than the one you do not. As far as critical thinking, you mean like the critical thinking we used in 2003 when we invaded? So you just want to gloss over 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq, 1990 First gulf war, chemical weapons use and development, posturing and threatening neighbors, killing own population, etc? Our government acted off of intelligence provided from reputable sources in a time that we realistically believed there was an existential threat to our nation. Saddam continued to be belligerent and threatening..... to the point that he was willing to call our "bluff". He called it and he lost. We support authoritarian regimes in the Middle East as long as they provide stability.Saddam was not stable. At all. Dude had to go. |
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 12:54:55 PM EDT
[#49]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 2/26/2015 1:13:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: idiots...uneducated idiots...pure and simple... destroying history is a barbaric thing... |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
